**OT - Justices extend gun owner rights nationwide - OT **

I believe you'll find that at any kind of range you can shoot accurately from, even a .22 will go right through unless... MAYBE... the HDD is one of the layers it has to pass through, and it's one of those old school ones with the thick stainless cover.

Passing through multiple layers of sheet steel slows down a bullet much more effectively than chunks of brittle casting; though a bit of steel sheet backed up with that brittle casting... I think that might have a real chance of stopping a bullet, or maybe the hardened aluminum of that cooling plate inside...

I have read that this particular incident involved a ricochet round, which would certainly have scrubbed off a lot of velocity before it struck the Toughbook. I am unsure of the veracity of this suggestion; but it DOES make sense to me.

mnem
Duck.

 

Oh, I pretty much agree, but I have seen .38 Special from a S&W Model 19, 4inch barrel, bounce off a heavly leather coat at about 15 yards.

.22 from a rifle and sometimes even a handgun will penetrate where a larger center fire round fails.

 

I suppose I can test it out. I've got a dead 600MHz CF-28, a .22lr rifle, a .223/5.56 rifle (two of those actually), a 9mm pistol, and some 12g shotguns. I'll have a .45 pistol for a few more days too, but that will probably be gone before I got around to testing.

 

Don't do that! You'll have htwingnut, the EnvyAce back over here again!

 

This may save you a few bullets and computers:

YouTube - Shooting at the laptop

After all, why waste a perfectly good broken Toughbook.



Glen

 

A Toughbook stands up a lot better to HUMMERS.

 

I'm actually more interested in seeing what a Toughbook CAN stop. Not so much blasting holes in it -- I know a 50 cal BMG that can defeat even Modly's cruisin machine. But it will be interesting to start easy and see how much ballistic punishment a Toughbook can take.

Maybe I'll start with a 38 special like Azrial said -- maybe a glancing shot or richchet from another steel plate into the TB bottom ......

Then a 9mm, 45 auto, 22LR, birdshot ....

We already saw on the video that 5.56 and 7.62 go right through. Maybe for fun at the end I can locate the 50 BMG ....

 

"I think I saw a dead pixel."

*SNERK*

I wonder how a CF-31 would stand up, what with its new, more stringent standards.

mnem
So... what is the MilSpec for Bullet Intrusion?

 

I believe there are a lot of people out there that shouldn't own guns, but I already know that laws don't do anything to protect the average citizen from criminals (although, people with bad tempers and bipolar disorder probably should never be in the same house as a gun lol).

Then again, the world would be a better place without HAND guns. I can understand people wanting rifles and oldschool large guns to shoot livestock, but what purpose does a handgun serve that a tazer or pepper spray gun couldn't handle?

If there were no handguns (PERIOD).. like not even criminals (this is never happening sadly), we wouldn't need them in the first place.

Never happening though.

 

Since the first "handgun (hand cannon, actually) first appeared in 1364 during the reign of King Edward III, and the first "mass produced" handgun was in patented in 1836 (the "Colt's Patent Arms Manufacturing Company" revolver), what would your idea be for "putting the genie back in the bottle" this late in the game?

 

Not quite right. Criminals don't always use handguns. Many of them are very opportunistic. Knives, axes, baseball bats, coffee pot. I've seen them all used as weapons. If you wanna take on a guy charging you with a baseball bat in one hand and a knife in the other while you use your coffee pot to defend yourself then go right ahead.

The right to keep and own firearms goes much past the premise of self defense. I give just as much weight to the rights of freedom and liberty from a tyrannical government.

 

You must understand, that if the handgun wasn't invented when it was.... It would have been invented later on.

Ever since projectiles have been propelled at things with more force than an arm throwing it, people have thought of ways to make it smaller and/or more precise. The handgun was bound to happen sooner or later, just as rifles and shotguns were bound to happen, just as bows and arrows happened, etc, etc.

No matter what tools we have in the present time, there will always be people figuring out a way to steal from you, and there will always be people willing/wanting to hurt you. They will find a way regardless if they have handguns or not.

 

There is a video that has been used at the police academy of a certain state that shows me getting Pepper Sprayed with Police Strength OC and then shows me running three miles minutes later. I have been sprayed many times and all it did was tick me off. I am certainly not alone in my immunity to the stuff, ask your local police.

With all due respect, your opinion of these matters is pretty strong for someone of your obviously limited experience.

 

Been pepper sprayed numerous times. I must admit the burn was bad, the snot flowed like crazy from my nose and I couldn't see really well but it wouldn't have stopped me from doing just about whatever I wanted.

 

Just on a different tack - and because I love a good debate

The massive April 20th Gulf of Mexico oil spill is reported to have cost BP, the British energy giant, $3.12 billion to date - source: Daily Telegraph July 6th, 2010 by Kate Poole

In 1992, the estimated costs of gunshot wounds to the US economy were $126 billion, or $154,000 per gunshot survivor, or $495 per capita. Source : Costs of gunshot and cut/stab wounds in the United States, with some Canadian comparisons, Miller TR, Cohen MA. 1997

Discuss.

 

Our local PD really likes the new TASER guns, if they weren't so damn expensive... About $900 each, which is a REALLY nice handgun with extras.

 

Well there is an old saying that figures don't lie, but liars sure know how to figure. These figures may be true. But most of the malarkey coming out of the anti-gun camps is based on every firearm injury that happens, be it a criminal wounded by police, gang on gang violence, or acts of war. I am perfectly happy to pay for most of those injuries.

They even count suicides under people killed with handguns, as if when someone sincerely wants to end their life, they will not find a way to do so.

However, having been shot in the line of duty myself, I know I did not see $154,000 spent on me, or given to me!!!!

Always a pleasure!

 

Did you at least get to keep the bullet?

 

" There are three types of liars: Liars, Damn Liars, and Statisticians"
--Mark Twain, crediting Benjamin Disraeli

"In earlier times, they had no statistics, and so they had to fall back on lies."
-- Stephen Leacock

"Statistics is the art of never having to say you're wrong."
- C.J.Bradfield

As well as including "children" of up to 24 years of age!

Me neither!

Always interesting.

 

Nah, evidence. But it was a "nice try" and I wrote that on my plate carrier which I got to keep.

 

Hey guys, no one hates statistics more than me, but statistically, you might be right TopCop

The figures were actually collated from published sources, inter alia, the National Hospital Ambulatory Medical Care Survey (NHAMCS), and cause-coded emergency department discharge and hospital discharge data systems. What they did with the figures afterwards is anyone's guess!

Az - you didn't see your portion of the $154,000 because I'd bet my life you weren't awarded some big, fat jury award as an injury victim. Those sums are almost certainly factored in to arrive at the final costs and no doubt contribute a disproportionate amount.

But facts and figures aside, my point was the huge disparity between the BP costs for something that has enormous media coverage as a global disaster and the costs (whatever they may be) of gun related injuries in the States. The latter seems to me to be a national tragedy for your country, for which incidentally, I have great admiration. It seems to me that generally as a Nation, you have the necessary vision and aptitude for tackling any problem if the desire is there, but that the gun issue is so emotive, change is almost impossible.

I just wish we were all sitting around discussing this over a beer or three - well, as long as you promise not to shoot me

 

One point that you must understand to comprehend Americans and guns, we don't consider bad folks getting themselves shot to be a big problem. The truth is most folks are not in much danger of it at all. The average Joe is far more likely to be the victim of an auto accident then a firearms related injury.

The gang bangers that are killing themselves off? Well we seem to manage to solider on without their contributions...

And I have never shot a man as long as he was buying!

 

"we don't consider bad folks getting themselves shot to be a big problem".... I can't argue with that and I confess to thinking "the things you see when you haven't got a gun" ... more and more frequently, these days.

And the next round is on me!!

 

I too commend Pinecone... Great attitude. Plus we all need to realize that they have been around for, pretty much, thousands of years before us. We are young.... They are older... Perhaps tides will change on either side. But one thing is for sure... I'd always want the UK in my corner... Regardless.

I like to say "Different strokes for different people"... Just so I can hear someone pipe up and say, "Don't you mean 'Different strokes for different folks?'... My reply? "EXACTLY!"

Look... You can get 10 "experts" on the same side looking at all the different angles and they still won't agree on everything or see things the same way. so we can all agree to disagree on most of this. We all feel the way we feel for all different reasons. In a way it is like politics and religion.... So many shades of gray...

 

A tip of my bowler's hat to all you fine chaps as well for an interesting debate - especially Azrial!

As you say, there are few things in this world that can be truly classified as right or wrong, nearly everything is just "different".

Variety is the spice of life

 

Thanks Gents! As you may know this is a hot button issue here in the US. My thanks to all, Pro-gun and Dissenters, for keeping it a gentleman's discussion.

If you ever come to the US we can go shoot my British Enfield L1A1 FAL or my H&K MP5k and see what fun it is, I might still make a convert out of you!

 

did someone say "ROCK AND ROLL"?.....Driller

 

Interesting conversation, at one time you Brits made some of the finest rifles and shotguns in the world, I own two WWII era Enfields and they are great weapons. I had a chance at one time to buy a WWI era Enfield and am still kicking myself for not following through on that.

Carrying a handgun is a job requirement for me but I consider it a birthright of any law abiding American citizen to own and carry a weapon for protection if they so choose.