OT: I bought a FD ambulance/van

SO, I got a great deal/trade on a van from a buddy of mine, and I was hoping some of you police, fire, and emergency personnel might have some words of wisdom for me.

Details
1989 Chevy C20 cargo van
305 Fuel injected
90k original miles
and it was converted by Robinson Ambulance (from where, IDK).
It was used by Yorktown FD, Va, and had "Technical Services Unit" under the FD info. Shore power and telephone jack on the outside, and outlets labeled as inverter on the inside.
The body is super straight with 1 ding and almost no rust. I like old metal cars, I can't help it.
Someone else had it in their possession between the FD and me. They removed the cabinets that were in the back.
I have contacted the FD and am waiting on Master Chief of Special Services to call me back.

Tracking the wires down is turning out to be a REAL PITA because the FD just cut wires to remove all the external lights and sirens. Then they just disconnected the feed lines and jack legged it to run (they reran some of the supply wires; all black whether it was positive or not)
There is a 14-40v rectifier installed under the chassis with a ton of large gauge wires running to it. Why is there a big A rectifier there?
I don't see the inverter (I assume the FD or previous guy yanked it out).

I would have taken more pics, but it's such a cluster.....it would take 30 or 40 pics to start.

I'm thinking some info from the FD mechanic, a case of beer, an electrician buddy, and a redneck mechanic buddy are going to be whats needed here.

I know to trace the wires and DMM and so on and so forth. I was looking more for particular ambulance tactics and what not. Any help from here would be really appreciated.

some switches
backside of some switches

 

Terrorist's car )))

 

You're thinking r ape van.
Nope, this one has windows!!! XD

 

O.K. the lightbar is MIA. Where do those wires end and are they taped off.
Lightbar is red lights. Grill is red behind grill. Alley was white light on end of Lightbar. Looks like they could turn on rear compartment lights from drivers seat and I assume the exhaust fan was for the rear.
The bit on the end (right) sounds like generator.

Otherwise it's a van.

Jeff.....pro wiring job at one time...

 

What are you planning to do with all the electricity inside the van ?

 

Jeff, thanks. I wasn't sure about the alley lights and what not. I also have some sort of cast metal box mounted behind the grill that gets fed power from a relay, that I'm assuming is connected to that switch panel. I"m thinking it was a transformer or control box for the two grille lights (frequency?). It's so weathered, I can't read the labels.
I have a lot of googling to do.

Baiii: dunno. I'm a contractor, and this is a big A van. I also have a set of ladder racks for it. It is a 305, so it's gonna be a gas hog. I'm definitely going to clean it up, get it running, put in at least a basic stereo/speakers, and luon the walls/cieling. I'd also like to redo the shore power and/or inverter. From there, I'll probably take it on a couple surf trips, and then sell it, and buy a better MPG (than this van) less crappy Astro (than the current crap Astro I have).

 

Those are a pain to trace wires in due to the fact that they may have extras added in after the ems company gets it. The origanal wiring schematic should have came with it when it was new but its probably long gone. Rear load should be a clear light outside facing back that should come on when rear doors open as well as when switch is flipped, dome should have been lights in cargo area in celing used for patient care. Engine idler should have been used to raise engine rpm's when parked to increse charging while on scene with lights on, usually worked when parking brake on.

 

Thanks MD. I had found similar units for the idler control. Apparently, the low voltage indicator can also kick it on. But yes, the pbrake, trans interlock, and other stuff all needs to be engaged or it won't turn on.

Does anyone know the pinout of those switches?

I'm almost at a point where I know (almost) enough to actually start tracking stuff down.....

 

Robinson Ambulances

11 West Windsor Boulevard
Windsor VA, 23487
Isle Of Wight County

 

That's right ....what Medicdog said re: the idle gizmo. Knew it didn't look right for a generator. +1

I'm guessing you would have one solid and one flashing light behind the grill. There will be a board with extra flasher/flashers I assume.

Did you find a hole in the roof for antenna and electrical wiring? Probably a clamp on lightbar. Maybe ran the wires up a door post.

Shawn may have the right idea. Wonder if they have a copy of the work order.

Jeff

 

305 is a good torquey engine and I think is throttle body injection which usually holds out for way over 200K. Probably has the 700R or 4 speed version of a turbo 400 trans since it was used for ambulance. Many service vehicles used in these vans really last a long time if serviced regularly. I've got one with over 230K but the L05 engine which was used in police vehicles(a 92 model). You can get a lot of bang for the buck on some of these gov auction sites like govdeals.com. good luck with the project, it will be a toughvan...Driller

 

1989 Chevrolet Cargo Van 20 Tech Specs
[...]
Economy

The G20 diesel and G20 extended diesel got 16 miles-per-gallon (mpg) in the city and 23 mpg on the highway with an automatic transmission. With a manual transmission, the diesels got 18 mpg in the city and 22 mpg on the highway. The G20 and G20 extended got 15 mpg in the city and 21 mpg on the highway with an automatic transmission.

When equipped with a manual transmission, the gasoline engines got 15 mpg in the city and 18 mpg on the highway. All of the G20 vans were equipped with a 22-gallon fuel tank.

 

I'll be honest with you.....if it gets 15mpg stock, then I can get 18 or 19 for few hundred dollars (headers, KN Air filter, tbi spacer, pod spacer, tweak the chip, etc), at which point, I will probably keep it . I doubt it will though, I had a 305 in an 86 C10. 11mpg.... I"m crossing my fingers.

It's friggin huge, has twin ac/heaters, and is right up my ally. It's kinda growin on me. I'm thinkin some paint and tint and it'll be good to go (after the electrical mystery is sorted out, and I get it running again).

 

I had one close that that one time. It was the extra long passenger van with rear ac in it. I bought it to strip the engine and trans out to drop into my 55 Chevy Gasser.

I think it was a 79 model, maybe early 80's. I always thought it was weird because it had a 4 bolt main 350 in it, but a TH350 trans instead of the TH400 trans. Most of the time if they put a 4 bolt in it, it got a TH400. I knows it was all original. It was bought from the original owner. You would laugh at how we dropped the engine. I didn't have a saws all so we jacked up all 4 corners, dropped the engine on the ground and used my bronco to pull it out.

 

Here I was, ready to share my wisdom of repairing ambulances for nearly four years and behold, its a chevy van.

If you get a hold of a Mercedes, Volvo or VW ambulance, throw a pm my way. These? Never even seen one in my life.

 

ambulance motor, ambulance suspension, ambulance tires, does the lighter work?
Opps, that's cop motor, cop suspension, cop tires, does the lighter work?


Ambulance flix
Canonball Run, Mother, Jugs and Speed

 

Aight....I've sorted out most of the wires. Apparently there was a motorola radio of some sort in there, so there were a few extra wires, antenna leads, and other com leads that were just butchered, so it added to the confusion.

I have most of the switches, relays, and wires identified. now I"m trying to figure out this gigantic friggin diode. I have pics, but they don't really show much (i'd have to take a pic from under a lift, to get far enough away).
Anyway, it's a Leece Neville c0011111ca. I found a tech doc for an alternator that uses it, but am not sure how it applies to my application.
Here's the doc

Tabs A and B run up to the battery area
Tabs C and D run to two points nearby, that other wires connect to. I think they are just connection points and are isolated from the chassis (ground)
Tab E appears to run up under the front seat to a bus bar (supplying all the circuit breakers for the aux switches from the dash), I think.
But why?
Here are some more pics, too: (link to the album because photobucket won't let me organize at the moment)

 

Heavy duty 3-phase bridge for a 200A 3-phase 12V alternator I think - and if your alternator is no longer an A0015523AA then you shouldn't need the separate rectifier or regulator.
An emergency vehicle would need high output at low revs. My 3+ litre diesel 4X4 only needs an 85A alternator for 2 80Ah batteries.
I'd remove everything that isn't being used. If I was unsure I'd do it one item at a time, keep notes, take photos and check everything for normal operation after removing each item.
Less stuff to check if it breaks down one stormy night

 

well crap on a cracker.

Turns out I have that type alternator, so I need the diode rectifier.
Is this better or worse than a standard (modern) alternator? Any advantage/disadvantage of one over the other? I'm assuming this type is heavier duty....that and having gigantic external diodes with ginormous heatsinks is probably better than those tiny little ones built into new alternators???

 

You can run your house on the alternator. One battery or two?

Seriously besides making the vehicle lighter I wonder about an increase in fuel economy with a standard heavy duty alternator. Probably not much difference as load is load. Still I wonder.

It had an inverter? Wonder if it had tubes v.s. solid state.lol

Tell us about three phase unclemack. Can you make 220V with it?

The two solenoids remind be of old style siren and siren brake. They don't go to the horn button or a foot operated switch do they?

Jeff

 

All alternators use a 3-phase rectifier; it's inherent in the way they work. The difference is they are usually built inside the alternator casting so they can get the airflow from the alternator fan. Your unit may well use a Motorcraft external voltage regulator; I've seen that before on commercial units.

You're a LONG ways away from the typical 10SI family alternators that were common on these vans in stock trim; while they can be had in up to a 100A version nowadays, the 12SI are a bolt-in replacement for the 10SI if you need more than that right up to like 200A in stock trim, and more from aftermarket hackers. Bracketry for the 10SI/12SI are commonly available at Pick-N-Pull for like $5. The rectifier trio is the most common point of failure in most alternators; abusing them with inverters and high-current lighting makes this a good candidate for placing the rectifier outside where it can be easily changed and can be easily extra-heavy-duty.

mnem
*amped*

 

Jeff: the two relays were actually for the lighting. i'm not sure which lights, because 1/2 the switches all have the same red non labeled wires going to them.
I also found the lead that was feeding the lightbar/alley lights, the "load" wire, exhaust fan, and....the rest, I think. They are all fed from a 4g(?) wire coming from the rectifier under the chassis. WHich brings me to the next step:
Now I'm trying to figure out this cluster faq of wires down with the rectifier...

Mnem, thanks for the info. I was curious what was gonna happen if the day ever came for me to have to replace some or all of that.....system. I don't suppose it would do well driving through deep water/puddles, huh? I live in a flood zone, and 2 or 5 times a year, I have to drive through 3' deep water to get home!!! :wow:
I've also looked into those monster modern alternators for various purposes. I love Chevrolets!

Things are lookin good. er, better.

 

Dibs on the alternator when you pull it.

Jeff...off grid...

 

Hi Jeff, long day.
If you need to run a 3-phase motor (guessing) you need a different solution.
Small 3-phase diesel generators can be picked up for not too much, 3-phase inverters are available (but expensive) in both rotary and electronic types, alternator from a genset can be belted to another stationary engine and all are workable off grid solutions.
I've seen a water wheel drive an alternator that would run a fair-sized lathe when it was raining, a vertical shaft wind generator from an oil drum cut in half (now that's ironic Alanis) ... there was a grouch of old hippies living halfway up a mountain in Wales years ago - still there for all I know
Maybe replace a 3-phase motor with a DC from a forklift, golf cart etc.
It's late, I'm exhausted and probably missed your point completely...

 

If that rectifier doesn't connect directly to the alternator field windings (This should be pretty easy to trace out with a DMM) an alternate possibility is that they were using it as a battery isolator for a storage array. Just a notion.

mnem
I yam what I yam, & that's all what I yam. Tomorrow maybe I'll putter-tato instead...

 

My 8.5 Briggs and Stratton is running as we speak turning a '72 Caddy alternator 24V at 34 amps. Storage is eight 6V batteries. I was just thinkin' an old one lunger diesel would turn IF's alternator nicely. Might keep the neighbors awake but I don't have any. I'm looking for 24V DC.
We pre-date the hippies 1862 I believe and in the 40's had a squabble w/the power company over bringing 60KV through the property. They went eminent domain...my wife's G'Father lost and all the other houses here (2 of them) got P.G and E.
When I moved in I asked what it would cost to bring commercial power here. $80,000 and the benefit of a bill every month. Yeah, right!

Jeff...still off grid...and the 60KV is 300 yards that-a-way. 16KV is 4 1/2 miles yonder....oh yeah my windcharger is keeping the dogs awake. Steady 20MPH gusts +40 w/ stronger winds in the forecast.

 

Yeah, I like jeff more every day.

Mnem, nope, I got 3 4ga wires comin off the back o that thing. Called up the mfr who was really cool about it all. They walked through my lame descriptions of components with the part# worn off, answered all my stupid questions as well as my technical questions, and shot me a copy of the hook up diagrams. Nice.

And, actually, I have most of the switches/wiring figured out, and a new battery dropped in.

NO fuel shootin from the injectors in the the tbi, no pressure on the line, 12v at the fuel pump fuze, 8.5v (????) on the line to the pump (no load), and the pump don't move when I jam 12v right on the leads.
New pump cost me $50, and I"m throwing it in, in just a few minutes....

 

That is an honorable company you are dealing with. They almost rate a link in your sig.

Good show. Ummmm where's your fire extinguisher?

Jeff

 

OK. I'm really tired and covered in a mix of grease, oil, gas, sand, and gravel.

SO, at some point someone put not fuel line in the gas tank to connect the pump to the pressure line. That hose looks alot like a marshmallow and falling apart when I pulled the pump.
Cleaned the tank, changed the filter, changed the pump/screen, blew out the lines, pulled the fuel injection pod off the tbi and cleaned rebuilt it.
Assembly tomorrow. I still can't figure out why there's only 8.5v (no load) on the pump harness....even when I pull the relay! DOH!

***ON a side note, I got one of those ultrasonic cleaners from Harbor Freight (the bigger one with the heater built in, $75). NICE!
I used 50/50 simple green and water. Wow. It was kind of cool to see the cloud of particulates just permeate off the parts. Came out lookin good.

pics and vids the vids don't show how well that thing cleans!

 

So when are the burnout pictures coming?

 

Maybe the pump harness is grounded in one of those rusty clumps I saw in your album.

 

I traced the wiring harness back from the pump up to the relay...I think.
The relay is powered by the orange lead (Like most 90ish injected chevy's).
Supposed to be orange feeds the realy, red feeds the pump and sending unit.
I think the red is being tapped off the fuse box, and one of the little brass springs looked a bit burnt. DOn't know why on either count. First thing tomorrow, gonna throw on the refreshed pod, give it a shot.
Runs or not, then track down the voltage issue.

 

GOOOOOOOOOOOT IIIIIIIIIIT!!!!!!!!!


Put some gas in, and fired that mother up!
Just drove it down the street. and it seems to be ok. Little more white in the exhaust than I like, but it has been sittingfor 1-2 years, not being started....

Thank you all for helping!

 

Now to find someone to take to the hospital. Good thing you didn't get a hearse!

 

Actually, when I punch it from idle it kinda chokes. could be timing, funky cap/rotor/wires, or the pump not pushing enough fuel (low voltage? dirty TPS from sitting for 2 years? who know?)

 

I worked with some old cat skinners (bull dozer operators) one of whom drove stock cars in his spare time. They would run diesel in the crankcase for a bit.
They (State Fire...CDF)got some military surplus jeeps (Korean war vets) one time and got one started and used it to pull the others around to break everything loose....OR NOT. At a dollar apiece it worked out fine. I drove one of them in the mid 60's.

I digress....the problem with diesel is it may clean things too good. Like sludge in the cylinder walls. Where was that fire extinguisher by the way.

Good show man.

Jeff