Panasonic Lost It

In 2004 the Panasonic business line (CF-T2, CF-W2, CF-Y2) was really in a class of its own; with components that were competitive in the marketplace all enclosed in the best chassis on the market. Some of the lowest weights to be seen, along with a fanless design and long battery life, made that generation of Panasonic laptops without any competitors that could even come close. Of course, these were also some of the most expensive laptops available, but at least you were getting something unique for the extra money.

But it was all downhill from there. The weights have slowly crept up, fans were added to every model, prices didn't budge, components have been outclassed by their contemporaries, and screens are no better than they were back then, and back then, they were definitely the weak point of the entire model line.

It's very disappointing to me that the Pansonic F9, ostensibly the replacement for the Y series, has:

- A fan, where the Y series didn't have one
- More weight than the Y series (3.6 lbs vs 3.4 lbs)
- A smaller screen (14.1 inch widescreen has smaller area than 14.1 inch 4:3)
- Fewer pixels (at 1440x900 vs 1400x1050, the F9 has 88.1% of the pixel count of the Y series)
- A bigger price tag (by about $500)
- More bulk - bigger in every dimension

The T series and W series similarly do not stack up well against their six year old ancestors.

Of course, the newer models do have some new features, with greater strength and rigidity, in the F9's case a cool carrying handle, and of course upgraded components. But the upgraded components aren't very competitive in their respective classes anymore; like I said before, the CF-x2 generation had processors and graphics that were comparable to their peers, but the weak processors and graphics of the newer models compared to their peers really stands out, especially at the inflated prices of the Panasonic line.

I wonder why Panasonic can't design laptops like they could six or seven years ago. Why, for example, can't they produce fanless laptops anymore? To me this is a huge feature; I find nothing more annoying than a quiet desktop (or bed!) environment that is disturbed by a fan that spins up and down. The newest Sandy Bridge mobile line, as seen in the new Macbook Air models, is only 17 W; this is 7 W more than the Pentium M 1.4 in my CF-Y2, but then again, this also includes graphics and other chipset components that have been integrated into the CPU that were separate chips on my Y2. I think that overall the power usage of the Macbook Air's entire set of chips may be slightly higher than the CF-Y2, but I also think that the marginal difference should not preclude going fanless if the design is right. Panasonic could do it; but they have lost their way and don't bother anymore.

The CF-B01 available to the Japanese only market has some nice upgrades over the Y2; a 1080p screen is a welcome addition, although the larger form factor increases weight to 4 lbs. I personally would still be happy with 4:3 screens but I realize that since almost nobody else wants them, 16:9 (a ridiculous form factor for a laptop but what can you do?) is inevitable so I accept this. But the CF-B01 looks like it has a cramped keyboard layout completely unnecessarily (with lots of room to the right and left of the keyboard that could have been put to better use). Panasonic's designs just fail to impress these days.

I am still using my Panasonic CF-Y2E that was purchased as soon as the model became available, in January 2005. That means that 6.5 years later I still haven't found something that I like better. The processor is dog slow for the software development tasks that I use the laptop for (although it is still pretty acceptable for web browsing even after all this time), and the graphics chipset (Intel 855GME) is just pathetic; the OpenGL development work I do runs at a couple of frames per second. But I just cannot get past the fact that nothing else I could buy now is fanless like the Y2, or has the low weight or great ergonomics. I have never found a keyboard that I liked better than that of the Y2, and the touchpad, while small by today's standards, is smooth and comfortable, and because it is small, suffers much less from the "accidentally tapped while typing" problem that is so frustrating with other laptops.

I actually bought a Sager NP5160 two months ago because I finally decided it was time to move on from the Y2; my software development tasks were just becoming too painful. Well the Sager has a *beautiful* screen (upgraded to the best quality 1080p matte), and a very capable processor in the i7-2630qm; but the overall package just sucked. The keyboard was literally the worst I have ever used (I found out quickly that I don't like chiclet-style keyboards with flat keys (concave keys actually do have a purpose - your fingers can feel where the keys are by shape much more easily than on the flat keys of a chiclet keyboard!) - and the Sager's chiclet keyboard has to be among the worst of that sorry style, with a mushy, flexy feel) and the touchpad was so sensitive that I didn't even have to touch it - just my palms hovering above it was enough to send my cursor off to nowhere constantly while I typed. Also the fan came on all the time and was freaking LOUD.

So I sold the Sager NP5160 for a nice loss (bought for $1200, sold for (net, after eBay/paypal/shipping fees) $800 two months later) and have learned my lesson. No more buying laptops sight-unseen. I got away with it with the Y2 because that machine was a high-end system designed with good ergonomics, whereas the Sager was a cheap system designed with anything except ergonomics in mind.

And here I am, back to using my 6.5 year old Y2 and just wishing that Panasonic could get it together and build a replacement that I would want to buy. I would happily pay another $2,500 for a high end Panasonic that was an upgrade in screen quality/size, with a better processor and graphics, while retaining the same weight and fanless design of the Y2. But Panasonic just doesn't seem interesting in designing such a laptop, although I believe that they could.

Oh and, my wife is still using the CF-T2 that I bought for her in mid 2004. Seven years later and she still refuses to let me upgrade her to anything else because similarly, she just loves hers too much (although her strongest issue is, believe it or not, the strap on the bottom of the T2, that she says she just can't live without!).

At one time Panasonic built laptops that were so incredible that they gave their owners 6+ years of satisfaction. Why can't they do that now?

Thanks for listening.

EDIT:

I should add that I did put an IDE SSD drive into my Y2 (it was a PAIN getting an SSD to work with the Y2; the limited selection of IDE SSDs, combined with the newness of the SSD market 2 years ago, combined with the Y2's finicky nature about recongizing drives, meant that I spent dozens of hours and hundreds of dollars finally getting an SSD to work with the Y2 - and it turned out to be a really crappy cheap-o "ssdfactory" SSD bought off of eBay), and although being a poor quality SSD that doesn't speed things up *that much* compared to the HDD that it replaced, the simple fact that it is completely silent is just golden. With no fan and no spinning drive my Y2 is completely silent, and I just love that aspect of it.

 

I have two cf-w2's, one cf-t2, one cf-t1, three cf-t5's and one cf-w5. I haven't gotten my hands on a Y series yet, but I I know it's just a bigger version of what I have. So I know were you are coming from. Have you got to test out a 5 series yet, cf-y5. The dual core picks up a lot on these models and they are still fanless, you don't have to split the case in half to change out ram and hard drives either. I didn't have to do the pin mod to get the harddrive to work right like on the 2 series either.

CF-Y5
Intel® 945 GMS - Unified Memory Access (UMA) up to 224MB
Intel® Core Duo Processor low voltage L2400 1.66 GHz
14.1 inch, 16:10, 1400x1050 pixels


It says that the max ram is 1.5 GB, but on ebay I have seen some cf-t5's with bios screen shot of 2gb. They do make a 2GB stick of ram for that model so it just may cut the internal 512mb off, but this is unconfirmed. The Y series takes the full laptop sticks of ram and not the micro ram like the W and T series.

This I think would give you what you are use too and love. Even your old charger stuff you have bought would work. One other thing I would say to check on is if the Y5 is fanless, I am thinking it is, on the W and T model it's the 7 series up that had the fan, They did have a 6 series in Japan from what I read, but not sure if it is fan or fanless.

I have windows 7 and xp on my T5's and both run very well with no problems. I do light gaming with the same video card as the cf-y5 listed above and only 1.06 core duo, it has run flawless. That is about the best stress test I have given it.

 

Thank you very much for your reply. I am pretty sure that the y5 is not fanless, it has a fan exhaust port on the left hand side. But perhaps I should just accept a fan and upgrade to a later model Y series. Thing is, they all started to get heavier and bulkier after the Y2 so while they may not be as bad as the F9, they'll still be a step down from my Y2 in that department.

 

Speaking of which, the A/C adapter design is probably the only real design flaw on these laptops. My wife and I have both gone through numerous A/C adapters for our laptops, probably 3 or 4 each. The problem is that the simple barrel-and-post design causes some kind of problem in the barrel of the A/C adapter that results in weak or no connection eventually, necessitating a new adapter. The first replacement I bought for both laptops was a full price Panasonic adapter, but after that, since it was clear that I was going to have to buy a new adapter every year or two, I started buying cheap aftermarket parts on eBay. They last as long as the original adapters, and are much less expensive, but are generally more bulky.

Seems that on such a pricey laptop, Panasonic could have done better with the A/C adapter design; the cheap barrel and post system is clearly a problem. Oh well.

 

My first toughbook was a CF-27. I bought that one January 2011. So i am a newcommer to the toughbook scene.

Since then i bought 3 CF-28s, one CF-71, and one CF-72.

I think that the CF-27 and CF-28 ones are also quit and sturdy.

Okay, they are slow as hell compared to the newer Toughbooks.

My hobby is to collect laptops. I have about 250 of them, from difrent brands. My best one is a Compaq Concerto (one of the first with a touchscreen. Real 386 power... yep)

I am not an expert on toughbooks and i have learned a lot of this forum, which i am very happy of.

But my question is: are you really dis-satisfied with the newer Toughbooks ?

 

What you tell about the adapter is for me a good thing. Better that the pin of the adapter breaks , as the pin, that is inside many other laptops. Replacing an adaptor is cheaper, as replacing a whole laptop. Also as a collector, i have 10 Compaq Armada 1500 series, and about 4 Armada 1700s, the adapter is inside the laptop, and you only need an external 3 hole (mickey mouse power cable).

I prefer robust connection. It is sad, that even some of the best and rugged notebooks have a weakness : The power connection pin(S).

i call it the achilles heels.

 

Well I haven't actually used one, so I am only going on the specs, but yes, I am definitely dis-satisfied with the specs and designs of the newer laptops. I don't see any real reason to spend the extreme premium for a Panasonic anymore when the components are generally worse than other cheaper modern laptops and the other ergonomic feaures (fanless, light weight) have been lost or reduced in the newer models.

Honestly the next laptop I get will probably be a Macbook Air. I keep praying that when Ivy Bridge comes out they'll go fanless. We'll see.

 

I will have to check out the fanless part, I know both of the W and T models are fanless, still have a ide harddrive. Maybe if you can get everything you want but fanless it will get you by for now until they make something you want.

On the chargers I haven't had one toughbook charger problem but on one. It was a cf-28 and someone had broke the plastic guts out of the plugin on the laptop it's self, I took it apart and just replaced the plastic part on the motherboard. For a cheaper but better charger cord go for the earlier thinkpad (example t22) charger, they are the same end, voltage and very good quality, never had a problem with one. If you look through them they even make a thinkpad charger that will fit the toughbook with the car 12 adapter for the same power brick. Saves on having two power adapters.

As I stand right now if I was to buy another newer of the business class It would be a 5 series with the dual core I am very happy with mine. When the rig leaves the dock in Dubai and I go back to Saudi Arabia I will have to to leave my CF-29 at home. We will be limited to 20 lbs each to carry to the rig on the helicopter. That is where the CF-T5 I have been working on getting it how I want it will come in.

 

I feel your pain.
I have a T5 and I really do love that one. It has been my "go To" portable for a long time when I just need lightweight since my all time lightweight favorite HP Omnibook 800 got too long in the tooth. I took the T5 camping and just about everywhere......until last October.

The 11" Air now does this job though.
I do miss the touchscreen and the assortment of ports and SD card slot but the new Air is pretty amazing for portability.
It feels more solid than the T5 to me and will run Windows XP flawlessly as well. I rarely have the fan come on and the true instant on from sleep is only a Macbook feature aside of course from the Omnibook 800 which was way ahead of u=its time!

I have a CF-30,29,18,73,71 and 25,31 in addition to the T5 so I know the line fairly well and the new Air is just my favorite for travel and daily running around so far.

I agree they certainly have the technology and manufacturing power to do anything if they wanted too and they have left the niche they carved out in the market with "Business Rugged" wide open from what I can tell.

Ed

Ed

 

Looking at pictures, the W5 doesn't have a fan exhaust port; but the Y5 does. I am pretty sure that the Y5 is not fanless but the W5 is.

I'd happily switch to a W5 (or even T5) but I can't accept a 1024x768 resolution limitation.

 

You might be able to do a little modding to a CF-Y5 to get it to your liking. If you could put a bigger (wider) heatsink on it and better thermal paste/pad the fan should kick on less. I have used a program before that let me set custom resolutions that weren't allowed by the factory, I will have to see if it is offered for the 945 intel chip, if so that could get the w5/t5 where it could be changed to where you want it.