Panasonic vs GETAC vs Delll Rugged for work.

As an Airline Mechanic working at the Line, time is critical to performing scheduled and unscheduled tasks to make gate times. The environment is whatever the weather is plus chemicals and rough handling. My employer is finishing a test case using the Apple iPad Air w/skin using Sprint 4G LTE to connect to Windows Servers and using work arounds to ABORTEXT ISOVIEW for our use in the field. The IT Dept. had there hands full with this one and the overall opinion between the Mechanics is failure. I have an opportunity to present an alternative so would like some feedback from those familiar with the current models represented in the title. Most of us feel a real keyboard is preferable to a virtual or an accessory plugin which kills a tablet solution, leaving convertibles and laptops. Dell is coming out in May with their new 12" convertible and 14' laptop rugged solutions, Panasonic has been doing the Toughbook for a while, and I have have almost completed my research on the GETAC offerings. The Toughbook 31 and 19's look good, as do the GETAC V110 and B300s using Verizon 4G LTE and 802.11 ac. Any real world hands-on comments, experiences or recommendations would be appreciated.

Thanks.

 

Does the US Military use anything but Toughbooks for ultrarugged use? What about the police, is'nt there a Toughbook in the vast majority of patrol cars? And frankly, why would you possibley consider anything that is not even on the market yet, so therefore completely unproven?

 

Toughbook, GETAC and Itronix were/are the only major players used in this market. Toughbook has just been doing it longer, but has always lagged with the hardware. GETAC has time, history and product. GD just stop production of the Itronix last month. Dell has just come up to standards so it is only being considered.

As stated..."Any real world hands-on comments, experiences or recommendations would be appreciated."

I should add that weight and mobility is a factor as it applies.

 

1. My take on this is Panasonic has been dealing with heat in an impervious as possible unit, capable of any given task. Case in point ....no fan until cf-31. Why the fan. Because folks insist on i5 /i7.
2. Rugged is (can not be) fast/faster without exposing the inward parts to the elements.

The specs for a gaming machine are not needed to run programs in the REAL world. And in my experience as a Toughbook mechanic what we want is a self contained, doors closed unit capable of handling the OS (operation system ) of the day. What's that? Windows 7...8.1??

Any CF-31 i7 or CF-19 i7 can handle that with no issues.

1. Strive for a unit with >2.5Ghz processor.
2. 8 to 16 Gb ram.
3. Solid state drive.
4. In the above units it all depends on whether you need a full size keyboard or a tablet.
5. Working on the line outdoors....screen brightness is a REAL issue
6. As is communications. abgn Wireless, Bluetooth,Local WWAN carrier.
7. If hand carried and a full size keyboard is not needed:

Synopsis is you want the CF-19 MK7 w/ backlit keyboard,Carry strap...maybe a x strap.. If digital signatures are desired or hand written notes, then go for digitizers or dual touch.

As a Toughbook mechanic I would expect no/ vey little down time. Yeah, I'm for Panasonic considering the time testing in the worst conditions possible. Iow i agree with Bill (Azrial)

Thanks for listening.

Jeff











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Sometimes I work around US Army helicopters. Most of the aircraft maintenance techs use CF-19 Toughbooks. I've also seen a few Getac about the same size as the CF-19. I may be able to ask them about this next week.

 

The ones you see answering so far take apart, mod, and work on our own Toughbooks so we know the internals pretty good. The Panasonic fully rugged is the time tested statue. I also have had other fully rugged.

On the Toughbooks you will be looking at the CF-31 for the full size. This one has a internal slot that can hold a second battery that can be hot swapped so you could change the main battery with out , i5,i7 processor, has a fan, but it is sealed so no water or dust can get in (the fan is on top of a heat sink, the heat sink is sealed), light up keyboard (rubber or emmissive, rubber is harder to type on) this model is also can come with dedicated ATI graphics, dedicated graphics can take a strain off of the CPU if that is needed.

The second one will be the CF-19 this is your small swivel screen tablet. No dvd slot or extra hot swap battery slot. The unit would have to be shut down to swap batteries, if a dvd is needed you would have to open a port and use the usb plug in. The standard touch is with finger or a pen, the digitizer is the pen only for more percision, there is also dual touch. The keyboard is smaller and gets a little use to typing on it. The rubber version of the keyboard is a pain to type on, but works.

The CF-H2 is the fully rugged tablet version, no keyboard. I have a H1 but not a H2, they have added a usb port to the H2 so you don't need the dock to load things on it if needed. It has dual batteries so you can hot swap batteries in the field.

There is also a CF-U1 Mk2 this has the atom CPU and 2gb of ram with factory ssd, 5.6" screen, touch screen and a thumb keyboard. It has dual batteries for hot swapping.


On Getac I have a v100, it's the older version with the core 2 duo, it is sturdy, BUT unless they have changed it there are a few things I don't like. The charger is a special 4 prong charger, the port covers were pretty good. I didn't get a lot of run time on it as I had a friend borrow it he is rough on computers and needed one with a web cam. In three months he broke something on the charger port, the computer hasn't worked since. I got to get back to fixing this one. I am not sure exactly how he did it, but it was plugged up when he did it. they have a wider version called the v200. I haven't used there CF-30/31 competitors.

On Dell I hear the performance is better than other fully rugged as a lot of them had low end to mid way dedicated graphics, and that helps takes a strain off of your CPU trying to do both CPU and GPU jobs. One problem I seen a lot of the older ones have is they used a gel filled screen, there are no longer made and lots of the ones in the used market have leaks in the gel. You can tell by the bubbles in the screen that is has a slow leak. I am not sure if the newer ones use that kind of screen. The tablet version of there older XFR is based on there production TX2 tablet. I had one for about a year before I got rid of it. Core 2 duo model that came from the factory with windows 7. It ran fine, had one gb on the motherboard with one slot open for upgrades. My ex step daughter has that pc now and it's still working. It just wasn't the fully rugged model.

I know some other members have had Getac and fully rugged Dells and they will chime in soon. I am sure all of the above have docking options.

 

This site was very helpful towards the computer in signature for Son's use in college for engineering, and it appears you folks may be helpful again. Please keep it coming on this one.

 

Rule to remember

 

A few years ago I managed a fleet of 800+ ToughBooks for a Fortune 20 company, most of which were used in the field every day. CF-19, CF-29, CF-30 and CF-52.

The only failures were user-induced and software related, courtesy of Microsoft.

I've also personally owned a number of non-rugged units (CF-R4/6, CF-Y5/7, CF-W4/7/8 and a few others) and was very impressed with them from the sheer engineering standpoint. Take this from someone who has gutted out more than 5,000 ThinkPads over the past decade.

While nothing built by an imperfect hand of a human can ever be perfect, ToughBooks come pretty darn close when it comes to laptops.

My $0.02 only.

 

Short and simple:

Azrial: Getec has been around for a LONG time actually. I've seen them. However, they make me giggle when put up against a Toughbook.

Having done this for over 10 years, here I am working for one of the largest Rugged Computing resellers in the world (Rugged Depot) selling 99.9% Toughbook. There is a reason people like them. They are just better.

I've had customers in years past try to "save money" by switching to Getac or Dull and they've ALL (About 10 total customers) come back admitting they made a mistake.

Hope this helps!

 

ADOR: "There is also a CF-U1 Mk2 this has the atom CPU and 2gb of ram with factory ssd, 5.6" screen, touch screen and a thumb keyboard. It has dual batteries for hot swapping."

I must mention that the U1 is going EOL permanently at some point very soon.

 

Sorry, I get a little lazy when posting from my phone. I have used Toughbooks as a cop for over 15 years and overseas, as a contractor, twice. I am quite familiar with the Getec and the Itronix, there were always guys that showed up with them on the contracts, those PC's usually died.

I think I posted here or over at the other board looking for some info to try and fix one for a friend when I was last abroad. His was actually a Motorola ML900 rugged laptop made by Getac. Anyway, my CF-29 made it through these harsh conditions just fine! I still have it!

Thanks Rob, but I was of course referring to the Dell...

 

The problem and reason I'm here is that these Toughbook and GETAC products are not consumer grade, so just finding them for some hands-on is not like going to your local retail distributor. I have had no luck getting serious follow up from Panasonic so if anyone here has real contacts in the Dallas area message me please. I will be meeting locally with GETAC next week and follow up with a visit to Corp if warranted. Question as it applies to the environment described in post #1, will the resistive or capacitive touch screen better serve in the rain?

Thanks.

 

Who you need to talk to is Rob (2 post up). Send him a PM.

 

Agreed. I am in Houston. We need to talk. Can you please call me?

I am with one of the largest Toughbook vendors - Rugged Depot. I have an in with Panny and can do what I need with them.

281-305-5018

Thanks!

 

Contact made...Thanks!

 

Consider fully rugged Panasonic ToughBooks and Getac only. The ToughBook fully rugged is the gold standard of Rugged laptops. Use one at work (wheelchair user here with cerebral palsy who walks some). The only laptops I can't kill. Spastic proof!

 

Rob will take good care of you!

Toughbook all the way! Nothing else comes even CLOSE. Many of us (myself included) have tried the other "options" and found them lacking. They simply can't handle the abuse. I am actually use a CF-19 day to day in a mechanic's shop environment. It probably gets knocked off a cart or desk every week or so onto the hard cement floor. The only damage it has ever sustained, is scratches in my shiny custom paint job. Bright orange so it doesn't get left in the wrong spot...

Once the woman knocked coffee all over it and was all freaking out. I just walked over to the sink, turned the water on and washed it off. While still powered on. You can't do that with any "normal" computer, or even most "ruggedized" ones.

From a cost standpoint... Well I would venture most of us on these forums are buying used off E-Bay and rebuilding/upgrading them. Rebuilding usually just means replacing HDD and HDD Caddys that lazy recyclers pull out complete when they get these off lease. Oh and many resellers dump them back onto the market without an OS system, or a generic OS load and saying that "the touchscreen doesn't work" becaust they can't sort out loading up drivers.

From an ITT support department standpoint, buy new and get the proper Panasonic OS with drivers sorted and loaded and recovery software. These puppies can be a REAL HOOT to sort out drivers on when upgrading to newer OS systems.... Most of us though find that part of the process is what makes them ours. I like the challenge, most days!

 

You will need a resistive screen if you're working in any wet environment. They're not as sensitive as the capacitive screens, but you're generally also not pinching/zooming/swiping/whatever vs a iPad/Android/Surface tablet. But they'll work when it's pouring rain and you've got water droplets all over the screen.

 

For SURE this was one of the things we talked about too.

 

Rob has a lot of knowledge, I can only offer my user experience.
I'm a consultant and often visiting machining shops, large naval yards, huge offshore repair yards, small high tech SME's and I used to have a beautiful apple laptop with me. Every year a new one, because they kept failing. Motherboards often, but also a tiny bit of coffee that fell on the table and under the MacBook Pro. Sucked in and history! Dented Aluminium bottoms etc. I tried a Getac but didn't like the experience, then tried a cf-19. It's now about three years old and still running strong. Advantage is that you can upgrade it. It now has 4g/LTE, 8gb and a 600gb SSD but also a fingerprint scanner. How about that for keeping it up to date. The outside still looks pristine. It shows some tiny marks of use, but certainly not the amount of use it has gotten these years. Not to speak about the abuse.
Important thing for me was also the availability of parts, accessories and service providers.
I expect my mk5 to last another couple of years and then to get replaced for the mk8. I don't want another one anymore.

 

P.S. My work Getac laptop died today. Spazzed and it fell off my lap. Dead. Using my work ToughBook. Which survived the same drop without an issue. When the Tough get laptops, the Tough should buy ToughBooks. Now all I need for myself is a cheapo Toughbook for personal use. Full rugged. Spazz Proof! Mamas, don't let your babies grow up to buy Getacs.

 

You can also take a look at the Motorola ML series. ML910 is the latest laptop, MW910 is the latest installed-workstation in cop cars. But generally IMO if you want third-party support (eg. us.. ) then the Toughbooks are a lot more popular than anything else out there.

 

Alecgold, which GETAC did you try?

 

Kent T, which GETAC did you break?

 

The moto's are discontinued permanently for a reason...

 

The Getac that broke was an X 500. Epic...Fail!

 

Was this outside the "5 year bumper to bumper with accidental" coverage?

 

Yes, by 2 months. Will be getting a ToughBook replacement of my choice to replace it from Corporate.

 

it did work for 5 years, that's something

Kent T, what new TB model do you have in mind ?

 

That is only a Semi Rugged notebook. Just like CF-74 or CF-53 model.
Have you seen or tried the B300 series. Their earlier model has 1.66Ghz C2d(700nit or the 1,200nit), i5 & i7 with 1,400nit( first generation ) and their latest model i5 & i7 with latest mobile processor. Above all they still have no fan. Its comparable to CF-30 and CF-31 model.

ohlip

 

No, but will try to arrange to get one on demonstration. The Panasonic CF 30 is a favorite of mine at work.

 

Toughbook CF 31w will be delivered to my office next week. Radio Station group bought this one to replace the Getac. Will be getting an i5 model. Loaded out. Nicknamed SpazzBox II. Will be my engineering laptop. My older Toughbook will be backup. A proper laptop for a broadcast engineer. Who's work wheelchair is a Colours Spazz, A Spazz pushing a Spazz. Priceless! My colleagues have a sense of humor. Many of them are also wheelchair users.

 

Just for reference; here is my newly refurbished Getac B300X with i7 ist generation CPU. I haven't yet finnish on installing the U-blox GPS on it.

ohlip

 

As it relates to the intent of this thread: While I personally would love a CF-31 or GETAC B300, there is no way to justify the high costs of multiple units to my employer. A happy medium must be had. Unrelenting durability, unwavering speed and reliable operation, a practical lease/purchase program with buy back/trade timed with technology advances and high speed no cost maintenance from the mfg/distributor will be key to an accepted proposal. Unlike the Military and our Government in general, a cyclical business must live within a very defined budget. This is not going to be an easy sell to the powers that be.

 

Good news! My work is having Getac repair the laptop. When it arrives back, work is giving me the repaired laptop for personal use. I am supposed to have it back to my office in 10 days. Then it comes home with me.

 

@ Kent T...can you relate the user experience of your X500 (prior to) vs your up until now office use of the CF-30...just for reference (spastic included )

While I plan to hook up with Rob soon, and have now briefly played with the F110 and V110 GETACs, same time side by side comparisons are not probable. Our dated CF-18's don't count.

Thanks again everyone for your feed back.

 

My X 500 was a very well made, very reliable laptop. And up to the last fall on concrete floor in my office, very stable and reliable. No issues out of it up to that time. Getac said my motherboard sustained some damage in that fall. A lot of jarring happened in that fall. Spastic legs with a mind of their own would have damaged most every semi-rugged laptop made which hit the ground with that kind of impact. I'd buy another Getac without issue, they repaired this machine free of charge. Their customer service is exemplary. My hard drive had to be replaced, And I cracked the bezel on the front. For a semi-Rugged I am amazed how well built the X 500 is. The ToughBook CF-30 I work with is still running without much issue under tough spastic conditions. I haven't killed it yet. Just a hard drive or two. Which is all I can ask. Takes a licking, keeps on ticking.

 

maybe get a solid state hard drive ...they can handle a lot more abuse..

 

I will be buying a SSD soon. Especially when 500GB sizes get a tad cheaper. I plan on installing them in the Toughbooks too, especially the older one.

 

P.S. Bought a SSD for my Getac and my Toughbooks at work. And passed the Spazz drop test with flying Colours multiple times. No issues. Speeds the older Toughbooks up appreciably too. A wise purchase for all rugged fanatics.

 

SSD's are great. I just replaced my 600gb Intel 320 for a 1tb Samsung 840 evo

 

The Getac X500 is Fully Rugged not Semi Rugged as mentioned here. The S400 is the Semi Rugged model.
My M230 is still going strong after almost 8 years!

 

It's funny how fast the Dulls get ruled out. The county where I live now tried saving a few bucks and went with Dull "Rugged" models. They regretted it soon after when they started having all sorts of issues they never had with their Toughbooks on the prior contract. Mobo failures, screen issues, the general Dull gamut.

I find it interesting that everyone uses Toughbooks to compare themselves to. So why go with anything else?

 

It's really good to hear an actual real world comparison

 

I have a Getac B300 rolling around that I got cheap,interesting unit. I have not had time to do anything with it as we are pulling the camper cross country.

It only has 58 hours on it,should be interesting to play with.

 

Which way you heading?

 

Minnesota to Brookings Oregon,right now we are in Douglas ,Wyoming for a few days to get a fan clutch put on my 99 Dodge Cummins. 246,000 miles at 17,200 lbs total and still doing 9.5 MPG.:thumbsup:

They can't work on it till Friday but no big deal for us.