Robs rant and rave thread against anything that isn't a Toughbook!

So I am starting this thread because I am thoroughly annoyed at EVERY laptop on the face of the planet after work today… I’ll start off with a few reasons why if your laptop ISN’T a Toughbook it is a PILE OF CRAP

Apple: Anyone that has taken an Apple G4 or G3 iBook apart or even a Macbook or Macbook Pro will agree with me on this one. These laptops are held together with TIN FOIL AND YELLOW TAPE! Good lord, if you ever have to change a hard drive or a screen on an older iBook G4, RUN LIKE HELL UNTIL YOU CAN’T RUN ANY FURTHER! I can’t believe that these laptops are built like this! NOT user friendly at ALL. On top of the fact that they use stupid torx bit screws and are to damn fragile! GAH!

Acer: Acer, Acer, Acer, oh where do I start with you???? To this day I have YET to see an Acer come to the shop with a completely in tact keyboard. The keyboards on these laptops are so damn awful that I have replaced at least 100 of them in the last 3 years… Acers also have TERRIBLE TERRIBLE power socket problems just like Toshibas do (I’ll go there in a minute). 95% of the motherboard problems with Acers are bad power sockets!

Toshiba: I don’t have as many gripes about Toshiba other than they don’t last more than a mere 4 years. They have LOTS of power socket problems as well on particular models (A75-XXXX). All in all the battery life on NEW Toshibas are NEVER good, just about an hour and a half.

Gateway/eMachines: in regards to their desktops, I KNOW KNOW KNOW that if a machine comes into my shop and it’s NOT turning on then for SURE SURE SURE it will be a bad motherboard and bad power supply!! NO QUESTIONS ASKED. To this date I have lost count on how many mobo/psu changes I have done over the last 6 years but I would say that it is realistically about 150+ machine!

Dell: Dell has it’s ups and downs. The Dell Inspiron 1000/1100/2200/6000/6400 laptops are PILES OF CRAP. I find that if you spend $1000+ on a nicer LATITUDE or VOSTRO laptop they are MUCH MUCH better! None-the-less I’ve seen a LOT of bad motherboards and broken power sockets on Dells too.

Sony: Sony, ahhh, Sony….. Sonys are good machines for the most part but are a PAIN IN THE BUTT to fix (almost as bad as Apple). They seem to be made to last longer than most other laptops, which might be why they cost so much more?!?!?!?

IBM: IBM T40/41/42//42p/43/43p/T60’s – VERY WELL MADE LAPTOPS! I would probably be using one of these if I didn’t have a Toughbook. The R Series and the A series – Piles of CRAP, Very poorly made and they seem to fall apart after about 3 years. As far as the new Lenovo 3000’s are concerned, I’ve only seen and used about 10 of them and they seem to be VERY poorly made as well

HP: I save the best for last: DV2000, DV6000, DV9000… In particular the DV6000 series. I don’t care what you have in your DV6000, if you have one it is a pile of CRAP. To this date in the last 4 years I have replaced 312 BAD motherboards on this particular model! I can’t believe that a class action lawsuit hasn’t been started on this!!! I GENUINLY FEEL TERRIBLE for any poor fool that has purchased any of these HP laptops. Not only are they prone to having bad motherboards, but IF, AND THAT IS A BIG IF you manage to not have the motherboard go out on one of these machines, then count on the wireless slot going bad at the minimum! Also, don’t get me going on the crappy batteries on these guys.

Some of you may be asking yourselves, Rob, why are you ranting and raving about all these laptops on the Toughbook forums??!?!? And I will answer with this: I have NEVER EVER seen any issues like ANY of the aforementioned machines with a Toughbook! Thank you Panasonic for making such a RELIABLE laptop! I would also like to state that I have been working at the same computer company (Proton Computers Inc) for the last 6 years and I have fixed 10’s OF THOUSANDS of computers in the last 6 years. NO I AM NOT EXATURATING! THIS IS WHAT I DO FOR A LIVING. All of what I just posted about is 100% truth and NONE of it is made up or exaggerated IN THE LEAST BIT!

Thanks for taking the time to read this.

~Rob~

I think that the only "NEED" for power comes from gamers... Seriously if I wanted a "Gaming laptop" I wouldn't bat an eye at buying a top of the line DELL with a video card.

The needs that I express here in this thread are for the HARD WORKING class of people that just need a laptop to WORK WORK WORK WORK WORK and maybe WORK some more...

People that don't want to deal with a cracked screen
Deal with a ripped out power socket
Deal with fried CPU's and overheating
Deal with being scared to touch the damn thing without breaking it
Deal with throwing on the conveyor belt at the airport for them to scan it
Deal with stuffing your laptop into a bag every time you need to get in and out of a taxi cab
Deal with having to plug in a USB light to see the keyboard at night
Deal with having to plug the laptop in after a measly 8 hours
Deal with messing around with a Sprint/Verizon/ATT card sticking out of the side
Deal with a glare from the sunlight shining through the window on the screen
Deal with protecting it with your life if it rains a little bit
Deal with kids banging on it
Deal with having to carry around a huge cumbersome bag EVERYWHERE YOU GO

Do I make myself clear why I started this thread?!?!?!?!?

 

I've been using Apple systems for a long time. I don't have a high regard for their hardware, but OS X is very slick.

Recently I learned that with a little bit of tinkering you can run OS X quite comfortably in a VM. So now I have the best of both worlds - a Toughbook that can run OS X through VMWare.

However I think you're being a bit unfair. If the vendors you mentioned produced $4,500+ laptops then they would probably be able to engineer something along similar lines to the Toughbook.

 

I agree with you on this one!

 

BBB, for me, I just can't understand how ANYONE would wanna deal with all the problems of having a normal cookie-cutter laptop like that...

I understand that money is tight for a lot of people, however, in my opinion you can't put a price tag on SANITY!!

 

Thanks for the post/rant. I buy, repair, sell laptops every so often. I don't do that many, but one toad kills any meager profit. If I figured my hours, I always lose money, but I do it for the fun. I think I will stick to turning Toughbooks. Now that I own the best, why mess with the rest?

Once an addict, always an addict.

Thanks
Shawn

 

I'll just add my two cents.

Apple - They are only for people who don't know how to use a real computer anyway so I don't even include them in any thoughts I have about laptops. Ibooks, Powerbooks, or whatever else they make that either looks like a toilet seat or a crippled white Sony Vaio are all utter crap and I'd never buy one. I was once told by some pretentious fool after a job interview that if I really wanted to get a job in desktop publishing then I should mention Macs a lot. I didn't get the job and continue to use just about anything but overpriced Applephantic Adobe or Macromedia software unless it comes as a free download.

Acer- Hahaha. I just bought one from ebay for $40 with a missing key on the keyboard and ordered a replacement. Yeah, they are crap but cheap and nobody expects them to last. My Acer desktop however is fantastic.

Toshiba - I haven't used one of their laptops since the 486 ones with the memory on a PCMCIA card and a clip on trackball mouse. I liked them back then though. I'd never buy one now after handling the weak and bendy feeling ones at Best Buy and Wal-Mart.

Gateway/Emachines - You get what you pay for there too. I have a Gateway Turion laptop which is great and according to ebay is still holding its value. No problems with it whatsoever except that I replaced XP on it with Ubuntu because I got fed up with all the Windows Updates.

Dell - All the old Latitudes (CPi and CPiA) seem to be going strong ten years on in spite of the hinges cracking the lid in 99.9% of cases. My most recent experience was with an Inspiron 1521 which looked pretty, had an awful keyboard and Vista killed its wireless card. I wanted to buy one for myself at the time but damn they are heavy!

Sony - Vaios have provided my worst computer experiences (other than trying to upgrade an Emachines Etower 366 - voted worst desktop PC in the world!). My Vaio laptop was typical in that one memory slot burned out, then the CD drive, and then the hard drive. Repairing it was pretty easy with a DVD drive (from an older model which shouldn't have worked!) and a new hard drive but trying to find drivers that work for any OS other than what it came with was a bit of a nightmare and I never got the hotkeys working again with Windows 2000.

HP/Compaq - I've always hated Compaq computers since the luggable 286 that tried its hardest to slice my fingers off when I tried to upgrade its disk drives. As HP, I just won't buy their products after an incident I had with one of their mouthier employees. It's nice to know that their products are as bad as the people who work for them.

As for Toughbooks, I've only got CF-27s. I like them a lot and wish I had the kind of income that would allow me to buy the current top of the range models. Having said that, they are HUGELY overpriced to cash in on all the corporate/military/service industry contracts they have. That's the only bad thing I have to say about them though. I have no idea how old a CF-27 actually is but I can see mine lasting another 10 years easily (give or take a new hard drive or two). You can't expect that from any computer you buy new now.

 

VERY WELL! I totally forgot about those GOOD machines... Yeah, EVERY CPi/CPa I've seen has had a cracked plastic in the LCD lid... VERY WELL PUT! I stopped selling those about 5 years ago lol

Also, in thinking back to OLD machines... The old IBM 600's and 600E's were good machines too... As were the T20's/21's/22's/23's... We used to sell THOUSANDS of T22's!!

 

Rob,

I am fairly disappointed with this thread.... There is no need to sugar coat your feelings.... Please tell us how you REALLY feel!


:smile:

<snorts another shot of Jack while laughing>​

I can agree with you on so many levels! While not repairing the vast numbers that you have... I have had my share with friends, family, neighbors and customers who have bought Toughbooks to replace their broken latops... Then they turn around and want to know about fixing their old laptops to give to kids, sell, etc.

One of the biggest problems that I have seen is the broken DC ports. Sometimes they are shattered and torn away from the mobo... But about half just need to have the solder reflowed and then tell the owner not to get up and run to the bathroom while the AC adapter is wrapped around his/her ankle!

The other I see is the spindly interior construction that breaks as a lot of customers either pick up their laptop by the corner of the laptop (bad but not REAL bad) or by the corner of the LCD... (REAL BAD!) I replaced my wifes Sony Vaio with a CF-18 as her GF came over and picked up the Sony by the corner of the screen and broke the LCD.... The 10.4" Sony LCDs are $450 and rare as hens teeth.... So now her GF can do whatever she wants to the CF-18.

My wife had been having issues with her CF-18 and it turned out to be a bad hard drive... After my 3rd reimaging..... I finally tested the drive and it failed..... So my bad.

 

What about alienware rob my wfe just got one and so far theve had to change the nvida card out and that still solve the issue of the screen going black randomly this is my first experience with them and i am impressed bye the machine but not the company or there customer service.


-john-

 

Alienwares are merely Dells in a fancy case, with fancy graphics cards, RAID, and stratospheric price tags.

Speaking of Dell, they're even trying to compete with our beloved Toughbooks. Their new XFR, however, doesn't measure up:

http://www.buytough.com/UserFiles/documents/30/dell_vs_30.pdf

 

The reason I purpostly left "Alienware" out is because I don't have a TON of experiance with them... I've seen 4 come by my shop in the last 6 years and one recently had a bad power socket. As far as I'm concerned they are just Dell Inspirons hyped up with what gn7p71 stated with ASTRONOMICAL price tags... they aren't any better (If not WORSE) than a Dell Inspiron. You're better off spending that kinda money and getting a Toughbook or a nice IBM Thinkpad or high end Dell Latitude.

 

You might want to give Linux a try, built on a Unix like core, and not nearly as crippled.

The rant was not a critique of their survivability under tough conditions, just their normal duribility and construction. A lot of the cost in a Toughbook is the case and hardening engineering.

Agreed, I have no problem with people that like Macs, really, I had one of the first! I was excited about them on their release as I had spent a lot of time learning 6809E Assembly (anyone remember/know OS-9 and FLEX... ) and they used the vastly faster Motorola 68000! What a disappointment! I recently took a stab at the 68HC11, but remembered why I am not a programmer... but, I digress.

What I hate is the ridiculous elitism from these folks when most consider themselves Über-hackers for being able to install a new keyboard! It is really annoying to be lectured at how superior a particular machine is by someone that knows next to nothing about computers.

 

The first laptop I had was a Compaq Armada laptop with a PII 300MHz processor, 96MB Ram, and 4GB hard drive. I actually still have it, and it still runs! It's been upgraded to 160MB Ram and a 10GB hard drive, the maximum it's bios will take. The battery is long dead, and there are two bad pixels in the screen, but that's all that's wrong with it. Though it is rather annoying that it was one of those machines with a small recovery partition on the hard drive, so since I never had the original install I never had that functionality. It's heavier than my CF-52 too. Not too bad overall for a laptop made in 1998. What impressed me the most about Panasonic is the three year instead of one year standard warranty. I figured that says something about the quality of the machine, period. Once I got my CF-52 I was quite impressed, and still am

 

My first laptop was an HP laptop ZE4200 series - AMD Athlon XP 1700+/256MB/40GB/NO internal WIFI - I loved that computers... Worked well for a while until I sold it to my company (Before I worked there believe it or not). My company ended up using it for about 3 years as a crappy eBay machine until the motherboard died and I parted it out.

 

What about the DELL version of the Toughbook?
Any exp with that??

 

Sorry, nope!

 

No experience with it, but I reckon there's a learning curve that will take a while for anyone to come near Panasonic, especially fully rugged models.

 

Looks neat, like Darth Vader's laptop.
http://www.trustedreviews.com/lapto...-Latitude-E6400-XFR---14-1in-Rugged-Laptop/p1

*I just read the review... nevermind...

 

Good video... The end shows it's weaknesses... like the fact that the hinges on the handle are plastic and not metal. He also said that while it doesn't seem to be as good as the Toughbooks, it also has far more processing power... which is true...

 

The thing that always comes to mind regarding processing power is do most people really need the latest most powerful processor? In my opinion, most do not and it's mainly a marketing tool to sell new computers. I've certainly seen machines with faster processors that do things slower than my CF-52 because the user has not tweaked the OS and is bogged down with background processes and such. Other opinions?

 

To some extent I agree but because of the way that the internet has developed with huge, bloated, multimedia sites, you at least have to have a pretty good graphics card to take the strain off the older processors otherwise you are screwed.

Many years ago a TV programme in the UK highlighted that, with Broadband, anything over a P90 was overkill for the internet but since Flash videos have taken over even some of the more recent computers struggle to keep up.

Also gamers just have to go for the latest, greatest, lap-melting computers and that's what keeps them selling new ones.

For office work I could still run everything on a Pentium 133 if I really wanted to. For games, a Pentium II or III is still good enough for Quake, Tomb Raider and such. It really is a case of it's not the size but what you do with it.

 

I can't relate much to other brands since my first laptop was a CF-17, then a CF-M34, then a CF-27, a CF-28, CF-48, CF-50, CF-73, CF-51, CF-29 and the most recent to join the stable, a CF-18.

A few of these fell off the desk, abused by kids, pounded by the Mrs (frustrations from work) and one was accidentally ran over by two cars (it's still alive).

Prior to Toughbooks, I avoided laptops like the devil... considered them wimpy and fragile to lug around on a motorbike... at least that was until I first saw the 17 and that changed everything! d@mn... it's contagious and the itch is terrible!!

Oh wait... I did get to use a HP tablet (like the CF-18) during my part-time stint and was quite nice to use except for the bloated "default utilities" (and things don't work right if you uninstalled them).

 

Here is why I hate panasonic:

The toughbooks are bigger than normal notebooks and they are less powerful.
That is not a reasonable compromise for being "tough".

You have to pick one thing only.
They must either be bigger with the same performance, or they must be the same size and normal notebooks, but weaker. You can't make that crappy combination of bigger + weaker.

Panasonic is lazy.

 

10-9, I guess I am not making the connection to be able to understand your logic.

 

Let me make it more clear:

For ~$2000AUD (because I'm in australia) you can get:

Panasonic Toughbook 52 ($2098):
http://www.ht.com.au/part/W3830-Pan...eader-Win-XP-Pro-15.4-Widescreen-T/detail.hts

Or for $1999AUD you can get a dell studio:
http://configure.ap.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx?oc=s541013au&c=au&l=en&s=dhs&cs=audhs1

Compare the specs, compare the size.

So you get a much weaker notebook, which is a lot bigger for more money.
Something is not right.

Since nobody else makes toughbooks, panasonic has a monopoly. They set their prices too high and keep their specs low.

Basically they are ripping you off because they know you can't buy a tough notebook from anyone else.

 

I don't think that Panasonic markets their laptops as being on par with other companies laptops when compared to their respective specs. I believe their main selling points are that the durability is unmatched and battery life for maximum portability. that is just my two cents, I am sure that the Toughbook has other advantages to other laptops but remember that Panasonic targets a very specific user with very specific needs and sometimes the wallets are very very deep.

 

Ok, I didn't realise the battery life was very good, now I see why they are not too powerful.

 

What he said..... I don't think the other guy "gets it".....

 

I know that this will be hard to believe, but there some people in the world who use a notebook for work, they could care less about being able to run Halo 4. If the notebook will not survive the conditions they must work under, it is useless, no matter how powerful its components.

 

Agreed. How powerful does a laptop need to be to run all of Office XP for instance? It runs perfectly on a CF-27 and that's only got a Pentium II 300 processor!

I would like to say that I use my Toughbook for "work" but the truth is that I just take it with me to work to play games on during my breaks. All the SNES and Genesis emulators work just fine on it.

Also since I work with animals it's pretty good to not have to worry about my laptop getting knocked to the floor and peed on by a Rottweiler or being choked up by cat fur.

 

Sorry dude I get unmatched reliability, the computer just works, I have taken apart and put back together many dells and sorry but I am not impressed with how they are put together, if the case flexes the motherboard flexes, not good for reliability. If I want to play games that is what a desktop is for. I get over 5 hours usage on my computer and it is doing exactly what I need it to do. Sorry but I just don't understand the concept of a gaming laptop with three or four fans making more noise than the speakers. I have zero fans, zero fan noise, and zero fan failures.

 

"reliability", something you would expect steve jobs to say about his crap.

Maybe you don't need a GPU, but I would expect a CPU that is on par with similar notebooks within that same price range. And with intel speedstep, the CPU wont take away any battery life.

Toughbooks remind me of apples. Both companies have a monopoly and they take full advantage of that.

If more companies made tough notebooks, you would be happy (I wouldn't care because I don't need a tough notebook). When only one company makes something, you pay a fortune for a bad product.

 

Nobody has mentioned Itronix yet. They looked cool, but not that well made. Hard to get parts and no manufacturer help.

The only laptop I ever bought new was a HP ZE4XX. Worst piece of junk. Started overheating soon after the warranty expired. Sold it on ebay and bought my first toughbook, a CF-50. That was a few years ago.

 

Not in my case since most of what I use now are pre-owned and affordable ownership allows me to tinker with it in any way I want AND not worry about it not working after being rattled on the road (you're from down under, I'm on a bike!)

Nonetheless, it boils down to personal preference and our experience or confidence with the products that comes our way, and I prefer reliability over speed any day.

In my earlier post, I mentioned one of my laptop landing on the road. That was a CF-29 which was ran over. Yea... it's heavy, bulky and slow compared to new models, like that Dell Studio (which is nice for home use), but can we compare specs again after the cars have gone over them? Betcha' a pretty penny that the 29 will still be ticking

oh ya... and I won't be batting an eyelid when my kids and nephews get carried away with LAN games, go pounding it or spill soda on the keyboard. They just sweep it off and go at it again!! Oh well... just another day in the life of a toughbook.

 

Panasonic does publish data on failure rates. Here they claim to have an average failure rate of 2.4%, versus the 22% average failure rate across manufacturers. (Of course, I am in no position to verify these numbers.)

The fully rugged Toughbooks use low or ultra-low voltage CPUs which are not all that cheap. I don't think cost is the issue here, rather than (as mentioned) battery life, and more important, the heat. These things have to work without fans, in a sealed case. Fast CPUs and GPUs likely would not last that long.

Eh, I don't know. There are other manufacturers for such computers. Getac, Itronix/General Dynamics, FieldWorks (take a look the 8500, now THAT is outdated tech), even Dell nowadays.

I think the base price for Toughbooks is fine. The extras are often stupidly expensive - fingerprint reader, WWAN, GPS cost about $500 each last time i looked, which is hard to justify.

 

The battery life is very good, not because Toughbooks don't have enough "power", but because of a very sophisticated blend of design, software, and very high quality batteries designed and made by Panasonic. I couldn't function without my Toughbook, and Tetris just flies on the sucker! I listen to all this crap about speed and I am baffled. I have never found a program needed for work which runs slow enough to matter, even on my old MK1 CF-28. I know that there are some games out there which require your laptop to melt after only short use, but other than that, what do you do that makes you long for a Cray in a 14" box? I surf the web, watch youtube, download the odd torrent, send huge files via ftp, burn copies of plan sets with 5-600 pages of full size cad drawings, convert those .dwg files to .pdf , and send email. You know, I just use it. I leave home at 0500 or so, just throw the Toughbook in the bag, running of course, use it all day at work, sometimes have to plug it in in the afternoon if I've really been grinding, and plug it in when I get home around 1800 or so. It's also TOUGH with all that means. Its late so I'll go into the interchangeable media bay, illuminated keyboard, touch screen and all the other "weak" features later.
Like Rob said, you can pretty much buy crap(I did like my old Dell Latitudes) or you can buy a Toughbook!
CAP

 

How many other brands can stop a speeding bullet? I agree that the latest and greatest processor is hype for marketing. The average user can get by quite nicely on a 700mhz machine running a trimmed version of XP. Does the newest Office or Win 7 make my resume faster to produce? Or make surfing the web any faster / better? Gaming and other software bloat create the false "Need for Speed". Why do people in the know seem to flock to quick, light freeware and open source? Can't tell you how many people I have eliminated Symantic or Adobe clock sucking bloatware for small light freeware. The customers are pleased as punch. The software does a better job with less overhead and is FREE. I hate bloat and crap running in the background.
I have repaired all sorts of mechanical and electrical/electronic devices. Durability and easy of repair is tops for me. I understand that those features come at the expense of speed and weight in most devices, unless you want to pay ridiculous prices for parts made of unobtainium. I find it sad that I need a plastic welder to repair everything. I get the manuals and take my time, but the plastic screw holes and even the housings crack and break. Lots of them fall apart from normal use. UGH...
I am disgusted by the bean counters theory to make everything disposable or self destructing in 18 months. I will gladly pay twice as much get a product that lasts 5 times as long and runs at 3/4 to 7/8 to speed.

My 3 cents
Shawn

 

What do you use in the place of adobe?

 

yeah the need for "power" is overrated. I find I hardly task my CF-30 at all and my Cf-28 might chug on a couple of things, but not anything vital to my work. You know work got done on PCs before Dual and Quad Core processors. hell I think the PCs they recently sent to replace the ones running the friggin space station are only pentium 3's. Like someone above said if programmers stopped being lazy and writing bloated code ,because "hey they got 4 plus gb of ram and a Quad core, I don't need to be efficient". Also end users should learn how to turn off all the unnecessary crap running in the background like speedlaunchers, etc. more than half the stuff on a normal taskbar is unnecessary.
The other big thing is heat also mentioned above. my nieces often leaves her toughbook running overnight on a bed under blankets with no ill effects. most other notebooks will fry. I use mine in Houston summers all day outside where it is usually 90+ humidity , 90+ degrees 8hrs straight. and no problems

 

Keep in mind that Panasonic also manufactures all the parts in-house. They don't outsource which raises the cost. I know because the wireless mics I use (Lectrosonics) also manufactures every part in house, from plastic extrusion and molding to metalwork and PCB assembly. FWIW, Apple's quality went down the drain when they went mainstream. Their older Powerbooks (<G3s) were built very well.

I use the tool (read: computer) that does the job for me. My main computer is a Mac, I like it because the workflow suits me. However, there are other things I do that suit a PC better and thus the Toughbook(s). On the opposite end, I also have a Macbook Air. It's essentially a glorified presentation laptop. I don't use it for gaming. Image is everything - Toughbook people will know. Some people do presentations on the default powerpoint template with the damn laser/typewriter sounds. I'm not one of them.

Some people like F150 pickups, others like an Audi. Same type of tool, but a different way to get from A to B on different ends of the spectrum.

 

I think that the only "NEED" for power comes from gamers... Seriously if I wanted a "Gaming laptop" I wouldn't bat an eye at buying a top of the line DELL with a video card.

The needs that I express here in this thread are for the HARD WORKING class of people that just need a laptop to WORK WORK WORK WORK WORK and maybe WORK some more...

People that don't want to deal with a cracked screen
Deal with a ripped out power socket
Deal with fried CPU's and overheating
Deal with being scared to touch the damn thing without breaking it
Deal with throwing on the conveyor belt at the airport for them to scan it
Deal with stuffing your laptop into a bag every time you need to get in and out of a taxi cab
Deal with having to plug in a USB light to see the keyboard at night
Deal with having to plug the laptop in after a measly 3 hours
Deal with messing around with a Sprint/Verizon/ATT card
Deal with a glare from the sunlight shining through the window on the screen
Deal with protecting it with your life if it rains a little bit
Deal with kids banging on it
Deal with having to carry around a huge cumbersome bag EVERYWHERE YOU GO

Do I make myself clear why I started this thread?!?!?!?!?

 

It's not bragging if it is true.

"Build a better mouse trap and thw world will beat a path to your door" THOMAS EDISON

That is the foundation of capitalism. If other companies can't or won't compete with panasonic why should that be panasonic's problem?

 

Moral Hazard's opinions kind of call to mind the image of John Henry (The Steel Driving Man) debating with the world Wack-a-Mole Champion on exactly what makes for a good hammer.

 

I don't think companies want to invest that much in the quality. It would hurt their bottom line. That is one reason for the price. The fit, finish, attention to detail is superb. You know when you can tell something is well built instantly with no corners cut? sony used to be that way. I remember their walkmans the size of a cassete case, marvels of engineering and well built. Mine lasted about 7 years before it died falling out a 7 story window. all it is now is disposable even it has great specs. Even mac with their much touted better build quality (at least by Mac fans ) are built in China by Foxconn I think? which also build all the crappy other laptops.

Funny image Azrial!

 

Azrial, my hat is off to you for that one...a classic comparison for the ages!

 

I dunno, my problem with Toughbooks is their price and low end specs. You could buy 3 or 4 traditional laptops for the price of one Toughbook. Chances of every laptop a company uses that needs to be replaced 3 or 4 times during its two or three year use lifespan is pretty slim to none.

I'm impressed with the Toughbooks in general for their robust design, if only other manufacturer's would take some clues from Panasonic at least in some design respects would help improve everything in general.

 

I think that it would take an entirely new PC maker to be able to compete with Panasonic for the fully rugged and semi-rugged market. The reason that I make this comment is that the bigger PC makers already have a certain part of the PC market that they target. Dell like to market their PC's to the typical end user and the small business owner with a little bit of attention to the gamers. Alienware is just gamers as well as the VooDoo line from HP. Although I think that in a previous post Dell has come out with a fully rugged model of their own and in the video review it shows some cutting of corners and not even close to the fit and finish of the Toughbook. So in all I believe that it has something to do with the makers reputation to be able to compete with Panny.

 

This can be true in some cases, I believe. If the work environment does not strictly require rugged computers, then one can get away with cheaper machines and replace them if something goes wrong. I have read about businesses starting to consider netbooks as an alternative to rugged hardware. With netbooks being pretty much disposable relatively speaking, one can afford to replace them every now and then.

In other cases "every now and then" would mean "after five minutes", because the work conditions are so adverse that non-rugged hardware just dies right away.Then it starts adding up, and you won't get any work done with regular hardware.
Or there may be situations where it is not possible to have a stockpile of spare netbooks at hand, so the hardware is not allowed to fail.

Personally I could easily get away with a non-Toughbook, but I like not having to worry about it when on the move or travelling, not having to care about too much pressure against the bag, or rain, or the fan being covered, or Coke on the keyboard. Before my Toughbook I used Thinkpads, and for longer business trips I brought two in order to have a spare, just in case. The lack of CPU power does not bother me. It is more than enough for everyday coding, browsing and office stuff. For more intensive tasks I SSH to one of our workstations - even a fast notebook would be too slow for those jobs.

 

I always thought one of the best analogies when talking about Toughbooks is comparing them to a watch. I for one never buy any watch that is more than say $100-125, and most of the time that is high for me. I think about finer watches that go for hundreds, if not thousands of dollars and wonder why would anyone spend that when all you want to do is tell time? Many things come to mind, prestige, vanity, "bling" or in some cases, durability, warranty and reputation. If I buy a "cheap" watch and it breaks, no big deal I buy another. However, if I were to spend $1000 or more on a watch and the same were to happen, I would have it fixed under warranty (for that money you better believe it will have one, preferably an unlimited lifetime). The same can be said for laptops. Most are cheaply made and unless you treat them like a piece of china, they will break easily (or at least parts of them will). You might as well buy another because it is cheaper than fixing. We won't even go into all the problems they usually arise like heat and bad connectors. Bottom line, the standard "you get what you pay for" still holds true. I think the best test would be for someone with a POS cookie cutter laptop to go along for one day with someone owning a TB and treat them equally, especially in a hostile environment...we'll see who the true winner is then.

 

I definitely think Toughbooks have their place though. Some laptops just wouldn't survive regular use in some environments. I dunno. I guess I was just taken aback by the cost of the Toughbooks the first time I saw them and then the meager specs to boot. I guess I want the best of all worlds. I'd love to have the ruggedness of a toughbook with the specs of a gaming notebook for a reasonable price.