Samsung 970 EVO (M.2) SSD possible in CF-31 mk4?

The details of my current machine are below. The adapter I will be using is here.

EDIT NO THIS IS NOT POSSIBLE

 

I do not see why not. I am using even ssd in a cf-w5. I used many msata to ide and sata on all my toughbooks. I was able to get msata at a good price a while back

 

Wow, thank you for bringing that adapter to my attention, I didn't even know it existed! Presumably the speed will be the same as the SSD implementation in the CF-31 (SATA-300) although I'm guessing in RAID-0 configuration there might be some improvement in latency?

I'm not sure what the MTBF is of either SSDs or M.2 drives, but from personal experience I had a SanDisk 240GB SSD fail on me after around 200 hours of ontime - I'm presuming it was brand new in my 2nd hand CF-31 but it might have been a user-replaced item. I've not had good experience with SanDisk products in general in this regard.

If you were to be going on an expedition with extended lack of internet (or at least expensive internet) then having a RAID-1 configuration might make a lot of sense).

Regards, Mark.
M0NOM

 

Please note that this type of adapter is compatable with M.2 SSD but
not compatible with M.2 NVMe or PCI Express SSDs.
There are less expensive adapters available.
https://www.amazon.com/StarTech-com...+SATA+Adapter+with+RAID&qid=1591448192&sr=8-3

 

I figured that since they make a mini pcie to m.2 adapter that I'm using to upgrade my Gobi 5k from the old pcie cards to the newer faster m.2 7511 cards, why wouldn't it be possible to do the same thing with a hard drive adapter?
Yes I was thinking of buying 2 970 evos and RAID 1ing them in that adapter.

 

The adapter I posted? How did you find out?

 

I know no more about the adapter in your link than you do. As far as whether it supports NVMe or not,
that common phrase on ebay comes to mind:
"If it is not in the pictures or the description, then presume that it is not included".
You could query the seller to be sure.

Wow! Your CF-31 is fully loaded!

 

If you set them M2s in RAID0, I wonder if you can read them as 2 seperate drives.

 

ill buy 2 SSDs if i can and find out. its literally a DIP switch on the adapter.

 

It's been my "goal" to load 2 SSDs (one dedicated for linux, one dedicated for Windows) on computers that only support a single 2.5" SATA drive (At the moment, only my CF-19 is the only computer that can hold one 2.5" drive).

I cannot contribute anything useful, but let us know if you find out.

 

That's always been a goal of mine. Why buy a cf-33 when I can just buy m.2 adapters (less expensive) and have the same tech? Legacy proof.

 

It would neat if it worked but I doubt the laptop would recognize the 2 drives though. If it did i would probably buy one

 

In your experience, what might cause a reason for it to not work?

 

I do not think most laptop bios will recognize 2 drives. It might be possible to boot into 1 drive and use a custom boot manager to pick the os off the second drive. If it does it will be very cool option. Just having 2 drives as one as a backup.

 

2 drives as 1 like RAID 1. that's my intent. But you do make a good point about the BIOS not recognizing 2 drives. ill start with 1 for now...

 

I have to say that I am intrigued by the Startech adapter. I went on their web site and read the setup instructions to understand how its controller allows you to configure hardware RAID over SATA III since it probably could not be configured with a BIOS boot utility. It turns out you have to power it up then hit a switch on the drive. Either with some cabling shenanigans to plug the drive outside of the caddy in order to access the button, setting it up on another computer, or using a USB-SATA adapter might be possible. At that point I would hope that it shows up as one physical drive and the Toughbook could pick it up accordingly.

I seriously doubt that the Toughbook SATA controller has port multiplier support, so setting it up as a JBOD and having two drives show up might not work. According to Startech that functionality is necessary on the host controller side. I'd love to give it a try some time, if nobody else can.

 

I think sata is bit different and if a drive is not recognized in bios it will not be accessible at boot. The raid 1 or 0 should be no problem though. Might be done by how esata works. Its been a while, I think I was able to plug in a dvd after boot. I recently bought a couple of pcie to usb. I use the wwan port in the toughbooks It has 2 ports which would might work also after boot as drives. There is msata version of that also. Just neat ideas.

 

Has anyone used those mini USB drives (that fit behind rear door on CF-30/31) to boot to an OS long term? Are they an alternative to this SATA adapter? Are they slow? Do they last? I have used them for additional storage, but never as a boot drive (other than long enough to install an OS to the hard drive).

 

Personally I wouldn't trust them for any long term use. Flash storage on thumb drives typically don't support as many read-write cycles as SSD drives. I have also noticed that their performance degrades when exposed to sustained high temperatures.

 

There are different grades of flash drives. they do not last as long as ssd but they can go for many years and write terabytes of info for sure. On my desktop I think I can get read speeds of 300-400. The usb drive would be great for a second os like linux or backup storage etc

 

Great, i think i bought the wrong one... why the hell are there 3 different m.2 connectors???

Based on the picture in my first post, it looks like the wrong connector. Guess i'm using NVMe M.2 PCIe M key for this EVO I have. Based on what i'm reading, those are all the same thing...
Still trying to figure out which one will work...

What is TRIM support?

EDIT Ok so NVMe is not a physical characteristic but a protocol? wondering if i wasted money now. Do toughbooks support this or is it something that will come with the correct adapter? A BIOS setting?

EDIT, ok so as far as i can tell, there's not a single effing adapter that looks like it will work with this 970 EVO....
https://www.samsung.com/us/computin...-drives/ssd-970-evo-nvme-m-2-1tb-mz-v7e1t0bw/
Someone enlighten me.....

 

There are M Key, B Key and B+M key for M2 form factors. These are all different from each other really. Most of the modern M.2's use B+M key. M key adapters (on the computer or enclosure) are compatible with M key and B+M key SSD and B key adapters are compatible with B key and B+M key SSD. I know... It's a bit insane and I was cursing at myself because I had a sapre M Key SSD and M key enclosures are very hard to come by. Not to mention that "most" suppliers do not know the difference and don't label their products properly.

As you figured out NVMe is a protocol and "M2" and "NGFF" refer to form factor. There is also the sizing for M2 (something like 2242 or 2280, 22mm x 42mm and etc). In your case, this entirely depends on your adapter. My USB 3 NVMe M key encosure ( https://www.ebay.ca/itm/SSD-Hard-Disk-Drive-Case-M-2-to-USB-Type-C-3-1-NVMe-PCIE-USB3-1-HDD-Enclosure/123675368421?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&var=424998637721&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649)[This product works for B+M and M keys and I told them after testing and the seller doesn't actually advertise its compatibility] for insance works with any computer and I did come across B key SATA enclosure that allows the M2 to be read as SATA. I tried very hard but I could not find any SATA enclosure that supports an M key.

TRIM support is an SSD protocol to maintain itself. Almost all modern SSDs support it and If you "optimize" your installation for SSD, trim is used typically on boot.

 

Glad I asked, that's literally what I'm experiencing. Especially the cursing. Ok, once I get the adapter, I will see, because Im pretty sure based on the crappy images on amazon, it's either B key or B & M. anyway, thank you.

 

You might be in luck. When you look at at 3:01 if you pause and count the number of pins in the smaller side, I count 5. M key is 5 pins on small side, B key is 6 pins on small side. This is good because your SSD ( https://www.samsung.com/us/computin...-drives/ssd-970-evo-nvme-m-2-1tb-mz-v7e1t0bw/) seems to have 5 pins on small side indicating M key.

Edit, Nevermind, bad count. It's clearly a B key adapter. At 4:50 you can see the 6 pin side being inserted in the small section. Sorry about that.

 

Yeah, I guess I haven't had much luck with those, so far. I trust USB thumbdrives for nothing more than live USB installs, moving files via sneakernet or for quick backups of non-critical data.

 

Edit, Nevermind, bad count. It's clearly a B key adapter. At 4:50 you can see the 6 pin side being inserted in the small section. Sorry about that.
Damn! ok more searching.
Also, I may encounter this compatibility issue. https://support.microsoft.com/en-us...er-support-in-nvm-express-in-windows-7-and-wi

 

Software incompatibility/driver issue should be something you can overcome. I'm curious though, why do you want to stick with W7? I did hold onto W7 on my CF-19Mk6 until a few months ago but I gave in after find out how easy it is to use the GPS with built-in Maps and downloadable offline bing maps.

 

I don't want to redo my whole OS/setup/config and everything else that goes into getting to know a new OS. I also want to see how much I can upgrade this thing before I run into some massive hardware/software issues with w7. It also forces me to learn about new types of components, problem solve, heck im even thinking about upgrading the wifi card to a Tri-Band Wireless-AC 18265. Which is actually the last intel card compatible with w7.

 

Honestly, having installed and maintained many machines regularly, setting up and configuring isn't that bad. In fact, I enjoy the opportunity to reconfigure things and improve how I had things done before. I do many many many custom configurations for Windows 10 to make it usable and non-spying.

I'm sure You have heard this more than once but Windows 7 is officially out of service and this means no security patches. As random/weird as it sounds, operating system is almost always in some sort of tug of war with expoliters (hackers) looking for and finding a hole in its defense and security patches offer some protection against that. If you intend to keep your CF-19 Mk4 hooked up to internet and use it for anything to do with banking, I would not use Windows 7.

 

Well I finally found my answer...……..
https://linustechtips.com/main/topic/924480-wd-black-m2-ssd-to-standard-25-sata/

"NVMe can't be used over the SATA interface. It can be adapted to a standard PCIe interface, which will work in systems with PCIe slots. The NVMe communication protocol uses the PCIe bus and cannot be used over SATA."

So, who wants to buy a brand new Samsung 970 EVO 1TB? Ill be posting it to the buy,sell,trade forums....

 

I would still stick it in the USB 3.0/1 enclosure and use it as an external OS/Windows 10 tester/Linux and etc. if I were you.

 

I don't have a use for any of those things. Plus I now still have to find a compatible m.2 SSD to fit this caddy. Whichever has a more common connector...

Very good points. i suppose ill look into that. Maybe I could employ to make 10 less spying...

What is this B key SATA enclosure that allows the M2 to be read as SATA? is there a link?

 

Best i could find IMO.
But what are the differences if anything? or is it just form factor?

m.2 B+M key
https://www.samsung.com/us/computin...-drives/ssd-860-evo-m-2-sata-1tb-mz-n6e1t0bw/

m.2 mSATA
https://www.samsung.com/us/computin...ate-drives/ssd-860-evo-msata-1tb-mz-m6e1t0bw/

EDIT Guess ill just get this with the mSATA variant since dual B+M key adapters don't exist either.
Unless anybody else has other ideas...


EDIT WOW I guess the mSATA drives don't exist anymore.... This is the most retarded and frustrating endeavor i've been on...
Literally all that exists is refurb...
https://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Samsun...sh=item4b7c033b1f:g:x0YAAOSwZ-Reo-2~#viTabs_0
Screw it, Just going to get a standard SSD since it's clearly impossible to do what i'm attempting to do...
https://www.samsung.com/us/computin.../ssd-860-evo-2-5--sata-iii-1tb-mz-76e1t0b-am/

 

It was "some ebay supplier" that I got from >3 years ago, be aware that there are many fake "adapters" out there and none of them work. I don't have a link, honestly if I did, I would get some myself.

Regarding mSATA.... these are 100% NOT M2 and they are different form factors and adapters altogether. mSATA is typically compatible with WWAN card slots in older computers such as Lenovo T430, W530, X230 and etc. Be aware that CF-19 has WWAN card slot that will physically fit mSATA SSD but electronically not wired to be able to serve as a SSD connection.

(un)fortunately, the mSATA are kind of outdated and very hard to come by new these days. I realized that they were "going out of fashion" ~3 years ago and panic bought a handful and I don't regret it. I recommend you not getting them nowdays... No new machines have them.

 

Also
https://www.samsung.com/us/computin...-drives/ssd-860-evo-m-2-sata-1tb-mz-n6e1t0bw/
is B+M key SSD. This will work with both B and M key adapters.

 

Very informative, thank you for that.

Good for future ref. Went ahead and bought the standard SSD