So I talked To Panny 2Day About "Hot Docking"

Some of you are aware that I had learned thru Gamber/Johnson that we should not be hot, or warm docking our computers. In other words you must be shut down when docking and undocking from your docking station.

I called Panny today to confirm such findings. Mr.Charles did state that you are NOT to hot dock. Here is a couple of things I discovered while talking to him.

This is nothing new to them.
I asked him if he realized how inconvient it is too shut down your computer everytime you have to remove it too do something mobile? Is that not what they kind of advertise about the Toughbook line? Mobility?

He stated that the power port in the rear of the computer can short out.

He was a very professional, helpful tech support individual. I was very polite, just wanted to know the details. I have been hot docking for 6 months now with no problems at all. You and I may continue to do so at our own risk.

 

Even with "Undock my computer" within Windows, it isn't good to do this?

On customers laptops I used that setting and it cut EVERYTHING, including power to the dock...

I understand the issue with hooking it back up and frying the power plug (that would suck), but that doesn't seem feasible AT ALL for ANY practicle purpose, let alone being a road/field warrior!

BTW, Thanks for stealing my stolen avatar Toyo!

 

Wow, I didn't know that the TB logo I made would be so popular! I'm flattered that you all like it.

I have a client that I convinced that he needed a CF-30. He got the laptop and we have been working up a plan for the vehicle mount/docking station. When I told him the problem with "Hot Docking" he said that he would just run from battery power and not run dc to the dock. Is there still a danger of shorting the power port on the TB if there is no power at the dock?

fstik

 

I was thinking of something similar, but I thought maybe a toggle/ rocker switch to turn the power off during the docking proceedure.

 

That is the best thing that you can do, so that not to turn off and on the pc every time and then. A switch that you can use accesible easily when docking and undocking the unit. Good Idea. rep to you.

ohlip

 

That is OK. From what I understand you can hot dock the Dell TB clone.:laugh:

 

Iceman,
Do you actually dive that hat or are you on a movie set? Those are still made just down the road from me.
CAP

 

Alright, I kinda am still waking up here......... My dock is powered by a Lind AC/DC 1540-941 unit. When the inverter is on, the lind charger is running off 110, when I turn the inverter off it switches to 12 volts in Ms. It does it so fast the dock does not even know what's happened. So, with the idea of a toggle switch, would power from the 12 volt be low enough not to do damage?

 

To answer my own question.....No. I would still be applying power while the computer is on. I am really miffed, suprised by all this. I would love to read the literature that comes with the Panasonic dock to see if it says anything regarding hot docking.

 

So... You can't just put it into hibernation or suspension? Technically it's still on... But not... If you know what I mean...

If it works... I would continue to do it. Or maybe try to put it in OFF... And pull it out ON.

 

TB, you make a good point. I guess you could remove it hot without having issues since it's the applying of power that is bad for them. To answer your question about hibernation and standby, he said no to that either.

 

Does the TB receive power throught the docking port on the back when it is docked, or through the dc port where the power supply normally attaches? If throught the docking port, I wonder if there is a chance of a physical short on the docking port supply pins during the process of docking/undocking the TB? Those with docking stations please chime in and educate me! Also, is this issue just for the CF-30s or for other models?

fstik

 

All the docks I have seen have a mechanism in the back. When you secure, lock the dock in it pushes the docking pins into the back of the computer. Gamber makes a claim that there mechanism has a certain system to where the mechanism goes straight in and is very durable or such. Can't remember the exact wordage. Panny said it is not something new to just the 30 series.

 

Seems like a poor design we hot swap or computers more than 15 times a day and have never had problem with one of them. We do not use toughbooks only itronix gobooks. The docks we use have a switch inside that shut off power when we unlock it. Then we can undock no problems. I wonder why the toughbooks do not do this. It seems like a terrible idea on there part. Who wants to shut off the computer every time you undock.

The toggle switch seems like the best idea. Just put a toggle that cuts power to the dock completely then undock. Are docks just do this by there selfs.

-James

 

Rob…

That reminds me of that old cheech and chong movie

“Hey someone ripped off the thing that we ripped off”


That’s why we can’t have nice things around here


Alex

 

You betcha. But not any more. That is a Mark
V Mod1. Are you telling me that death trap is still being made somewhere!
The helmet is bolted to the breast plate. You need a tender to get out of the ed thing, you got to keep bumping the chin valve so you don't get too much positive buoyancy, the canvas suit is always leaking so if you let to much air out you can feel the water coming up a around your knees. I keep this picture around to remind me about some of the dumb things that I have done for money.

 

Iceman,
They most certainly are!

The hats are still completely made by hand in a mom and pop shop in Rockland, Massachusetts. They buy the copper pots from a metal spinner and the rest is hand soldered and finished by a cadre of retired folks and high schools kids who come in to do the filing and polishing. The last time I was there they were redoing the custom MK Vs they made with the extra large front ports so you could see Robert DeNiro and Cuba Gooding's faces in "Men of Honor".
http://www.morsediving.com/
They keep the doors open with sales of the MK V dive knives. They are great people! We use Superlights and hot water suits at work.
CAP

 

Yes and no. At work we are replacing our CF-28s and CF-29s with Dell ATGs (all terrain grade my foot!) in First Dock docking stations. Yes, they can be warm docked and hot docked, but in our case we can't because we have a USB GPS receiver attached that Dell and/ or First Dock cannot seem to handle. Unplug the GPS and it works..... most of the time. Other times it locks the machine up solid when you re-dock.

 

Speaking of Dell. They just signed an agreement with the PA Attorney General and fifteen other states because of their fraudelent use of the Dell Preferred Account, failure to pay rebates and so forth. I was one of the people involved in the XPS 700 fiasco. After a year and a half of battle, Dell replaced the mother boards and paid some rebates that had been promised but not sent.

 

Hot water suits! Ain't that for the sissies?

 

How come your company is leaving Panny? Cost?

 

Cap, those Kirby Morgans have always been a great hat. You got to tell my why anyone is still diving MarkV stuff? What do the people in that store tell you? What are the reasons being given. There are stories after stories. You can't get yourself out of the suit. Scooping the whole diver out of the hat. I went to the site. Thanks for the link. That is one interesting place.

 

Iceman,
I think they mostly sell them to collectors. Kind of like years ago when a guy at a high end woodworking tool store told me he sold most of his $5000 wood work benches to doctors. Dry suits are dangerous, they always leak, and they give my divers another excuse to get out of the water. Give them a 7mm wet suit and pump hot water down to them and they stay in all day in 30 degree water. I, personally, am too old for any of that crap. I need 80 degree water and 150-200' of vis before I'm going in!
CAP

 

Cost was one factor. Another was a perfomance perception issue by the users. The image that we used on them was not very well put together IMO as I bought one of them and it runs great now that I did a custom Windows install. The major reason is that all of our desktops and office-type laptops are Dell and it just seemed easier that way. I am not impressed however.

The call them ruggedized, but really all they did was put a very slightly thicker bottom plastic case half and some reinforcement to the LCD housing. Everything else is a standard Latitude. We are already having more issues with them in the first year than we had in five with CF-28s. Oh well, live and learn.

 

This is totally ridiculous and goes to show that just because they work for Panasonic they know know what they are talking about. Think about it, if the issue was the possibility of shorting of the power port on the docking connector, it would happen no matter whether the laptop power was on or off. As the dock is always feeding power to the docking port and power is being fed to charge the battery. If what they are saying is true then you would have to remove power from the dock completely and that would be totally unacceptable in most applications. Hot docking is the norm and I have never heard of a laptop breaking because of it.

 

Is that all they are? The specs that I have read and the pictures that I have looked at seem like they are a straight copy of a tb. Never seen one up close.

 

Tough2Go, I dont think you understand what they are saying maybe. The problem is when you dock a computer that it is booted up it is called "Hot Docking". When insert the computer on most docks, you either pull a lever, or simply push the computer into a slot, then it changes the power from battery to A/C power. The problem is 2 fold they say. 1st the connector on the back of the computer can short out if the pins are not properly lined up going into the back of the computer. I really dont worry about this since Gamber did a very good job of designing, constructing the pin assembly. 2nd is that the computer can become unstable when changing from one power source to another, via the connector on the back. Not the connector on the side like you would use for your normal power supply cord. They must have had some issues with this in the past which is why they suggested not to hot dock your computer. I hope this clears things up a little bit for some. I will agree it is quite crazy, and confusing to say the least. I have been doing this for 7 months with no problems at all. However, most of the time in my situation I am docking cold, I do remove the computer from the dock when it is hot though.
Buytough made a good point in the fact that look at all the ambulance, EMT's and such that have been doing this for years. I don't think the police remove there's from the docks that often during the day.

 

I think this is probably a CYA move on their part. If they okay it and some chump sticks it in wrong with it on and blows it up... Then they have to cover it under warranty. If they say NO... Then you do it... They won't cover it.

I can see how someone might get the pins off on some of these models... Especially the ones that were orginially made for the CF-27 and some of the sellers on ebay are trying to sell them as CF-28 docks. There are even some that have docks for 27s, 28s and 29s saying that the same dock fits all laptops. No can do without modification! But someone will try it I'm sure.

 

Probably spot on TB.

 

I know for a fact that if I hot swap my cf 28 on a Panasonic CF-VEB272A that I get a power serge on hub port warning on the labtop. I do not know if this is a problem or not.

 

I understand what they are saying and I still say it's bull carp. If the pins are going to short out, they are going to short out regardless of the power state of the computer. because the power pins on the dock are always hot and if misaligning the connector is going to cause the power to short to ground you are going to smell smoke or blow a fuse really quick. REGARDLESS OF THE POWER STATE OF THE COMPUTER.

 

If the battery is really low you will have a high spike of power at the connector when you dock. My laptop power connector will actually spark when i have a very low battery and it wants more power right away. But if my battery is almost fully charged i get no spark.

This may also be one of the issues too as the sparking can burn out the contacts.

-James

 

I think that you are referring to the XFR series. We got the cheaper ATG series. I would love to see if they are any better or not, but Dell will not send us an evaluation sample. I asked, but so far no joy.

 

Yes, that is the model. The other is, as you say, a slightly beefed up 630. The XFR looks like a toughbook clone. The only possible advantage I can see would be less of a likelihood of being raped on parts prices. My experiences with Dell have been so negative that they would just about have to give me that machine. I would like to look at one however.