The CF-51 F.A.Q.

Thanks for the good news!. Given my intended use, the primary concern has been the laptop having 256MB instead of only 128MB video memory.

In reviewing the seller's description again, the specs in fact don't mention wireless (could of sworn at one point it said a/b/g...) which makes perfect sense now; not a deal breaker though, all other factors considered. I seem to remember coming across discussions in the forums of an Atheros wireless/n solution, so I'll continue researching WiFi options for this model....

At some point I'll likely upgrade the processor to a T7200 C2D, as others in the forums appear to have had success with this while avoiding overheating issues. Given the demands of W7 for system memory and the 4GB system cap, perhaps 64-bit isn't a viable option. Even 32-bit would be a nice upgrade from XP though, when the time comes.

For the immediate future, I plan on retaining the stock OS for compatibility with my existing software apps (like Adobe CS2).

It's good to know that the antenna (possibly two in place?) should already be in place when I'm able to find the right wireless solution....

PeteB77 posted a wireless solution earlier in the forum. He states:

"The card is Atheros AR5B91-X it seems that there are several versions of this card so be sure to get one that supports 802.11n if you need it."

He also provides a link to a YouTube video on the installation process. Excellent.

 

I had 5 of the Mk3's at one time. I have one left to get rid of. The ATI versions had the 1200 x 1600 screens, remember this is older box square screens also. I have had both video card versions of the Mk3 with ATI X1300 and use to play games on it some. 128Mb or 256Mb was available. The 256Mb version was suppose to have more pipelines open and be a better card. I never bench marked them but I couldn't really tell a difference on them.

If you are willing to pay up to 200 for this model you need to know what you are getting into and what your other options are. The hard drives are still IDE, that is why I got away from this model. The x1300 card is more of a business class card, the 256 Mb version could only do minecraft on low, Halo CE played fine on high as did some other games. This model takes the CF-29 style battery, they are getting up in age too and are harder to get. This machine is only business rugged. I have problems at times getting video drivers to work with this model. They will work for a while then start throwing up errors, then work again the next day on windows 7 32 bit. I kept my Core duo 2.0. This laptop has a good copper heat sink is why it takes the extra heat. This is a Socket M CPU, not socket P so 2.2 is high as you can get as far as speed goes.

Since you are willing to spend up to 200 that I know of for a good laptop you want and you want a ATI version why not look into the CF-52 models? What Panasonic did was merge the CF-74 and CF-50's series together to create a widescreen version of the CF-74 (semi rugged, not business rugged) and had two models like the CF-50/51 models were one was intel graphics, the other ATI. Starting with the Mk1 CF-52 you could get a HD2300 ATI card with 512MB of ram and 2.0 core 2 duo from the factory, on the down side you can't upgrade the cpu.

Starting with the Mk2 you could get a ATI 3650 512Mb card and 2.4 core 2 duo, if you can wait, this is the model I would wait for. I have a Mk1 and Mk2 with ATI. The Mk2 seems to be twice the card of the HD2300, lots of games can be played on high like minecraft.

x1300 card vs hd2300

AMD Mobility Radeon HD 2300 compare AMD Mobility Radeon X1300 GPU

12% difference

HD2300 vs hd3650

AMD Mobility Radeon HD 2300 compare AMD Mobility Radeon HD 3650 GPU

HD3650 is 232% better card, I

So with the Mk2 you get newer SATA interface, Semi rugged construction, carry handle, widescreen, way better video card, 2.4 core 2 duo, takes newer CF-30 batteries and can use CF-29 style batteries. I haven't tried it yet but I think the 3650M can even play Skyrim on low settings. I haven't spent a lot of time on this exact laptop since it's the main one my oldest son uses for travel.

If you are looking on ebay and it has 2.4 core 2 duo it's a Mk2 with ATI.


If this is out of reach since it may be a little more than 200 dollars you can see about intel 4500 graphics, it offers some good performance. It should be close in performance to the HD2300.

 

Excellent advice ADOR on all fronts. I took a good look at various CF-52 models (particularly those featuring the 3650M graphics), and they are really handsome rigs with a lot more power and better upgrade paths than the CF-51 QG5EEBM.

After giving it some thought, I still decided to still go with the CF-51 though for the following reasons:

1. New in the box - zero hour cycles, virgin screen and battery, new power brick, and sealed XP and Panasonic Recovery disks. With an asking price of $169 plus $20 for S/H, I was hard-pressed to pass up it up to run my older XP-dependent software. When I can afford to upgrade my software, I expect I'll revisit the CF-52.

2. Good performance - not a screamer by today's standards, or when compared to CF-52s, but more than adequate for my needs. My day job is going well enough that I plan on treating myself to a high-end gaming rig next year (waiting for the next generation of laptop CPUs and GPUs to roll in over the next 6-8 months). My Toughbooks will serve primarily for productivity, mobility, light gaming, and with the hope that as day-to-day units they will survive my dog's attention (have a Great Dane/Boxer mix puppy that at 4 1/2 months is already 45 pounds and growing....)

3. I do like the challenge of maximizing performance while upgrading as cost-effectively as possible. CF-52s are really beautiful machines, and if I wanted to invest in a single machine for the foreseeable future, I think I would save my cash and go in that direction.
As it is though, CF-51 upgrades are reasonably inexpensive, and parts are available (C2D CPUs, RAM, WiFi, etc). I'm eyeing an IDE SSD at OWC that could set me back some coins though….

 

I think you will be very happy with this CF-51. CPU and memory upgrade even better...PM sent.

 

Just wanted to let you know what to expect. You may find this thread interesting, I do need to update a few things I see in it.

~Toughbook Talk~ Toughbook Discussion • View topic - List of Toughbooks with dedicated video cards

If you have the money later on just hold out and look for a newer CF-52 with ATI

CF-52 MK3 - ati 5650

CF-52 Mk4 ATI 6750

CF-52 Mk5 ATI 7750

( I have been waiting to get a new gaming laptop as well. Looked at a the Mk3 52 with ATI. CPU wise it would be a big jump on what my M11x R1 has right now, but not that big of a jump over the 335m GT. I like the new GS60/70 Msi, but they have been having some heating problems, waiting to hear how the alienware 13 is going to be)

 

ADOR, I foresee a CF-52 with higher-end ATI graphics in my future. Your list has given me a lot to review! It's great to have a complete list of models with dedicated graphics to compare. For a laptop that can handle daily trips in-and-out of vehicles during the day, and energetic kids and pets at home evenings, the CF-52 is an excellent solution.

On gaming rigs, I do like the MSI offerings. Unless I'm mistaken, the GS60/70 models only vent on one side, which is most likely a big contributor to the heat issue with more demanding CPU/GPU configurations. Their new GT72 series has addressed this with a dual-vent design and a metal chassis.

Newegg did a great GS70 vs. GT72 comparison review worth checking out:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJ67JJ8oesM

The fact that there are over 1100 mostly high-end MSI laptops for sale on eBay right now does concern me somewhat (build quality issues or buyer's remorse?).

If I were in the market for my gaming laptop right now, I'd be leaning towards the Sager NP8278 with a higher-end matte screen and CPU; the fact that the GPU is user-upgradeable is a plus. Sager also has a couple of SLI options, but given the heat and power demands with such rigs, If it became a must-have I would probably go with a desktop solution for that feature.

By the time I am ready to buy, most likely in the first quarter of 2015, the laptop model offerings will be completely different, of course.

 

I have noticed that as well on the newer MSI gaming machines on ebay, not sure what the deal is either. I had hoped Alienware would of dropped the 860m maxwell into the 14, they run very cool, but right now we don't know if they are going to be upgraded or not with the release of the 13, I am hoping the unknown plug in the back is a for a external gpu.

The republic of gamer series uses a upgradable MXM card, BUT the pins are reverse of standard making where you can only get a upgrade from them.

I was looking into the GS series because of weight, we are very limited of weight on the chopper on to the rig.

I still see me picking up a Mk4/5 52/31 with the better ATI card myself, I just don't know when yet.

 

I use a CF-51 everyday and like it very much, mainly for the high resolution 4X3 display but I'm
running Windows 7 32 bit with an SSD and 3 GB of RAM.
Still, it runs hotter (noisy) than I like and I think there is a lot of room for improvement on the cooling
and while the Panasonic batteries hold up very well - battery run time is not great. It gets even hotter
when charging and running at the same time - very hot.

I've gone through I think at least 4 CF-51s, several were not as described on ebay so that is part
of the reason. Most have had the display bezel crack, probably due to stiffening and shrinkage
of the plastic with age. Most that I've bought have had under 8000 hours, several under 1000 hrs.
Currently I have the 256MB video version with a good bezel. Oil or set the tension on the lid hinge
since I think that contributes to the cracking, or perhaps with lighter tension it is less likely to crack.

One way to get a better idea of what you're buying is to look at the support chip set used, the
CF-51 MK3s are Napa Refresh based, 667 FSB, and you can read about it here:
Centrino - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

A serious limitation is that you can't use the Penryn 45 nm processors which are faster (up to
3 GHz) and lower power. Penryn processors of interest are mainly the T9XXX and T8XXX types:
List of Intel Core 2 microprocessors - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
These require the Santa Rosa chipset platform 800 FSB:
Centrino - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Then came the lower voltage and power versions of the Penryn processors which require the
even later Montavina platform, 1066 FSB.

The problem is that I don't know of a Santa Rosa or better Montavina based laptop that still
uses a 4X3 display.

There is a parallel here in the IBM/Lenovo Thinkpad world the 4X3 T60s used the Napa Refresh chipset
and the mostly 16X9 T61s used the Santa Rosa chipset. The 14.1" T61 did come in a 4X3 aspect
ratio but I don't think many were made and they are hard to find, and I prefer a 15". The T60s
had the excellent display and the T61s had the better chipset. Another issue was that the
T61 used the infamous Nvidia video chip that was also used in most other laptops of the time and
was known to eventually fail due to some fabrication and heat stress related issues. Only the
last few months of production of the T61s had the corrected Nvidia parts. Some very bright guys
have found one version of the T61 motherboard that almost drops into the T60 chassis getting
the best of both worlds - they call it a Frankenpad:
http://forum.notebookreview.com/not...format-hi-end-ips-lcds-my-new-frankenpad.html

I really want to build a 4X3 Frankenpad.

I don't know enough about Toughbooks to know if any of the later motherboards might drop into the CF-51,
I'm thinking this would be a way to keep the 4X3 display with the later processors and RAM - a Frankenbook.
A Montavina based motherboard would be best in order to get the lower voltage faster FSB processors,
better video and cheaper DDR3 RAM. Another issue with the CF-51 is that the interface in the drive caddy
is for IDE so a new motherboard alone does not get everything you need for a SATA interface.

I've tried to buy a CF-51 MK3LL which is the version without accelerated video since I don't need it and
I'd like less heat/longer battery life. The MK3LL is 1024X768 rather than the MK3s 1600X1200 so I'd try
to do a display swap if I ever try it. I bought what was advertised as a MK3LL but they sent me a MK3.
Probably the next one I buy will be a MK3LL to try this.

Here is my solution for getting an SSD in the IDE based CF-51, it uses a 1.8" SATA SSD with a
1.8" SATA to IDE adapter. Please note that it was not reliable at low temp until I wrapped the
flex cable in the caddy with aluminum foil - not clean, but it works. Try it at your own risk, can't
say if another SSD will work the same with that adapter:
http://forum.notebookreview.com/panasonic/702624-ssd-options-ide-pata-only-systems-such-cf-51-a.html

This is probably a better solution:
I was recently informed that 1.8" SSDs are becoming less common and there is a newer adapter
for using the much more common mSATA drives in IDE applications as discussed in post #93:
http://forum.notebookreview.com/pan...only-systems-such-cf-51-a-10.html#post9764249

 

I have 2 new in the box mk3's but they are the high Res screen so not what you are looking for,I just sold 2 that I installed a T7600 CPU in and they worked pretty good.

 

My first CF-51 was a MK2 and printed on the back was 15.6V 5A and that was the rating on the OEM
power adapter - CF-AA1653A.
My next system was a MK3 and it required a 15.6V 8A adapter, I tried it with the 5A and it gets VERY
hot. Looking online I found an 8A version Panasonic number CF-AA1683A. This thing is HUGE but it
works fine, specs say 5.7" x 2.6" x 1.5" and 1.46 lbs.
I needed another one and did some searching and also found the Panasonic CF-AA5803A that is
also 8A and according to the spec dimensions a bit smaller, specs 5.7" x 1.3" x 2.2" and 1.04 lbs. I
think it is a newer design for the CF-52 but the advertisement lists it for the CF51 also.
I also came across the CF-AA5713AJ1 AC Adapter which is 15.6V 7.05A and I expect would probably
work fine but no reason to get it when the 8A versions are available.

Many IBM Thinkpad adapters are 16V which is close enough to 15.6 but check the current rating
especially with the MK3.

There is a Thinkpad automotive and home adapter but the one I got is 16V at 4.55A, P/N22P9003,
FRU P/N 22P9021 it goes into current limit and shuts down if I try to both use the CF-51 and
charge the battery. Just charging, or running with a full battery is fine. This type of adapter was
suggested in this thread but I might not have gotten the correct model. It is a 72W adapter since
16 x 4.55 = 72.8W. I'm not sure if there is a 90W or higher Thinkpad adapter for the home or
car. I'd like to know the part number if anyone knows of one.

The correct adapter for the MK3 is 8A x 15.6V = 124W

 

Some how I missed this...I have updated the first post. Sorry about that

 

Below is a PM that I sent to another member about the IBM charger

Well what made me starting to think there was a problem with them is when three 51's died. Not charging the battery. I built 2 for 2 young teen girls who's family did not have a lot of money at Christmas. They worked great for about 4 months then stopped charging. At the same time I gave one to the girlfriends mother and it started going to. When I went to see her I noticed the charge light was going off and on every few minutes so when I went to check out the power block it was very hot which started me thinking maybe it was not powerful enough to run and charge it. When the 51 was off the battery would charge ok and the power block was just warm. Now this is why I think it needs a stronger power block. If she was to run the 51 for 2-3 hours the battery would drain with the power block plugged in so it's not getting enough power to run it so it's using the battery power too...does this make sense ?? Also when the battery was dead it would shut down the 51?? Anyways all 3 of the 51's now will not run on battery power at all even with a OEM charger. So I have replaced all the 51's with 52's with OEM chargers :thumbsup: .

I have had no problem using them with CF-18(all), CF-19(MK1/2/3) and CF-30(mk1/2)

 

I just had that problem here,the block was cooking and then it shut off on a 52. Never had the problem on a 51. Just tossed one aftermarket last night that failed,the IBM car/home charger set seems to be working fine.

 

I use the IBM AC-DC chargers rated 4.5 A for 19, 18, H1, U1 just the smaller units. Some 51s have discrete graphics that use more juice and really need more than 5 amps to charge & run right.

 

I use the IBM 7.5 amp. It's the size of a brick and weighs the same.
I can use it with any Toughbook and it never overheats.
I have been saying for years that if the bottom of the Toughbook (CF51 or CF52) says 8.0 amp adapter, then a 4.5 or 5 amp adapter is not enough.
Even if the notebook runs on the low amp adapter, under powering it will shorten the life of the adapter and notebook.
I don't think it's worth the few dollars you save to get a small adapter.

 

Do you have a model number for the IBM 7.5 A adapter with the correct plug? I've spend hours looking on
ebay for both Panasonic OEM and IBM chargers and I don't recall seeing an IBM that powerful.

 

Well I bet the prices of them are going up now...

 

It's not plug and play,
The IBM one does not have the correct plug. It needs changed.

 

Ok I got one of those, they are really inexpensive at least, have not changed the plug yet.
The Thinkpad part number for the one I got was PA-1121-071 16V 7.5A but to repeat for
others it does not have the correct plug. I like the fact that it is built to IBM standards
and is not some low quality clone product.

 

CF-29/CF-51 batteries will work on CF-30s...I am charging one up on a CF-30 right now. But, you CANNOT fit a CF-30 battery into a CF-29 or CF-51.

Incidentally, with CF-51 MK3 models one would be pleasantly surprised how easily one can upgrade to W7...Windows Update actually has W7 drivers for the ATI graphics card and the Smart Card reader! The only drivers I needed to supply (I used the XP CF-51 MK3 drivers from Panasonic) were as follows:

-Sound
-Hotkeys
-BT switch
-PC Information Viewer
-Battery Recalibration

 

Now kick it up to a T7600 and 4gb ram and it will work great,very easy to do.

 

I feel like my system has slowed down a lot since I first installed windows 7, thinking of trying Win 10 on it - anyone else tried it?
My wireless is not always connecting reliably which is quite annoying - I think it is just time for a fresh install.

 

Oh yes. Yet another cf-51 thread to suck the life out of my eye balls. But need the knowledge. Muuuuusssstttt reeeeaaadddddd.......

 

and the addiction has begun.......
Nothing a little T n A won't cure.....

That's Toughbooks Anonymous

 

Yea.Another addiction. JUST what i need. At least I'm 15+ years no drinking and 2years no ciggs now. 6 months no nicotine.
But on a good note, that Dell I was strippin down has the same as my original cpu for my 51. 2.0 ought to be better than 1.8 .

 

Oh Safn1949 You were right about the CPU. Wasn't the duo I thought it was. I bow to experience.
But now I'm bummed that it wasn't as good as I thought it was, Siiiigghhh.

 

@ bill ...
looks like we can add another one to the *club list* .
(i am coming up on 29 years)

yep , i hear ya on the no-smoking .
a little over two years of no nicotine in any manner or fashion .


"Nothing a little T n A won't cure.....
That's Toughbooks Anonymous"

oh , yer no fun !
then again , there is no such thing as just a "little" when it comes to that ...
however , that is another program and beyond that , i shall digress .

 

Yea did the e-cigs for awhile . But Puff free now.

nd if I get too deep into this addiction, I'll be getting no thing but T/A from the wife. Terrible Attitude.

 

Just keep getting the same models and you will be fine, just don't let her see how many. They all start looking the same, lol.

 

Shoot. No fun in getting all the same. I'd rather not have more than 2 of each. I that works and 1 as back up.

 

Yes but models like the M34 and 19 have went 7 Marks/generations so far so there is a lot of difference from the first to the last.

 

HEY I have an M-34. Makes a cute little paper weight. But does work, think it's either DSL or PUP on it.

 

Got your box. Should I drop a CF-51R in yours? With 7600. I think it will fit. (futures trading)

 

Man you all are having me runnin in circles. I had to go look in the other forum to remember what I sent to you. But not even sure if that list is accurate. I sometimes add stuff to act as packing. Sadlmkr drop me a pm on what you'd like in trade or an approx value before you do that . I do NOT want to screw anyone over or get in over my head in owing fellow traders.

 

Question, does the top part (the weakness of this design) fit all CF-51 models? I have one on the way from Florida, it is said to be working (Core 2 Duo 1.66 GHZ processor) but has a chunk out of the top deck on one side (it was cheap but complete). I know where some single core but cosmetically nice parts CF-51 are?

 

I can not recall 100% for sure. It has been years since I had a CF51.
If you change the entire top half it should work. Especially if they both have the same resolution.

 

I am wanting to actually change out the top half bezel, below the LCD hinges, the rest of the machine appears OK. Keep my LCD and motherboard on the Core 2 Duo working machine. It's the top piece where the keyboard and track pad go into that is often cracked or broken on this model. Hope this explains my intentions better.

 

Here is a service manual.
http://tim.id.au/laptops/panasonic/CF-52AJYZDZM.pdf
If you mean the part indicated by the red arrow then yes they should all be the same.

 

Yes, that part. Thanks for the exploded view about how it goes together.

 

I have that part,the 51 isn't too bad to get apart.

 

You should check out this thread http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/cf-51-cpu-upgrading.526150/
It's a very easy upgrade and it gives new life to the 51.

 

Thanks! Will likely upgrade the CPU, as they're not too much money. I have my parts on the way, and should have both by Friday and likely sooner.

The CF 51 is here, it is running. It now has 3 GB RAM. Hard drive is small. But will be upgraded, CPU will also be done soon.

 

What does it look like for the price you paid.

 

Beat up, had some hard knocks. But that is no issue, I bought it to be my road warrior spazz sacrificial lamb. No big deal if it gets beat up some more.

 

I ended up putting this card in shortly after I posted this and it has been working fine.
The driver is a bit difficult to find and I believe that the one for Win 7 was hacked together
by someone. Just to document this the filename for the driver that I used was win7-10.0.0.303-whql.
It seems to be here at this unofficial site if you google it:
https://www.atheros-drivers.com/download-driver-nr-290-for-atheros-AR9485-and-Windows7.html
Use at your own risk.

I have a Dell laptop where the antenna wires are not long enough to reach to half height cards, so
I swapped the Atheros into the Dell and tried an Intel 6300 in the CF-51. The Intel card works fine
but I had to manually install the driver, find it on Intel's site to be safe. It is half height so you need
a metal adapter to make it fit. The 6300 will take 3 antennas, just hook the two up per the color code
or use an Intel 6200 that takes two. I used the 6300 because that's what I had. There are versions of the 6200 with Blue Tooth if anyone needs it.

Edit: When I put the Atheros card into the Dell, it found a driver on boot up, the CF-51 did not.

 

A 6300 is a good card.

 

And cheap! I paid $4 shipped.

 

I'm surprised you say this since I now have about 10 CF-51s - I only use 2 of them the others were for spare parts (Got 5 for $60 shipped) and that part is not cracked on any of them. It is clear that the plastic was not the best formulation, several of the battery covers have the hook that make it latch broken off. One has the matching hook in the body broken off. I've had the display bezel break on most of them that I used daily and I have an update on this. When it breaks several times the display developed cracks, some with lines, and one with the bottom third having many lines - really a shame with such a nice display:
I've finally gotten around to removing several display panels and what I found was that the plastic bezel really does nothing to add strength but the frame behind the bezel does. The frame screws had become lose on most of them and I think this allows the panel to flex more and eventually break.

A thread locker might be the answer. I've used loctite for automotive applications but I'd be a bit concerned in a laptop, I suppose the only reason to have to take the screws out is if the panel fails and then it doesn't really matter. It might also be best to leave the screws for the bezel slightly lose at the bottom so that it is not under so much stress from the frame. An aluminum bezel would be nice!

Do others use a thread locker, what if so? There is something on the threads in Toughbooks but it didn't hold around the display frame.

And by the way, the MK3 has a very nice UXGA (1600X1200) display, the MK3LL has a much lower quality XGA (1024 X 768) display. The 4X3 UXGA display is why I like the CF51 so much.

 

My CF 51 died, motherboard conked out. Boss at work is funding me a better, new Full Rugged ToughBook and is about to buy me a new work ToughBook full rugged, so I get my older ToughBook. I get a nicer machine. Boss understands I need full rugged at home, I have the old CF 30 for now at my house. And will get it's successor as soon as the new one arrives. He's a wheelchair user and understands my physical issues.

 

I do plan to dig into the base section at some point and I could send you a motherboard if you need it. Are you sure it is not a RAM or processor issue? I can send you that plastic piece if you need it, you're talking about the part that covers the speakers?
I find that when I remove that part it is best to get a screw driver under the loop of plastic that covers the hinges to try to even out the pressure when removing it. Also the flaps that go down the back of the base latch, pry them up to release the latch before pulling hard on the part.