The Panasonic CF-25 Information Thread

The Panasonic CF-25 Information Thread

Purpose:

This thread is intended to be the complete source for information on the CF-25 ruggedized laptop computer. The CF-25, in my opinion, is grossly under-documented online and as a result we, the CF-25 owners of the internet, must band together to ensure this does not continue.

The thread is built with information gathered from official Panasonic manuals, enthusiast-provided information, and enthusiast testing. All information here is believed to be correct.

Table of Contents:

• Reply #2: Original Specifications by Model Number
• Reply #3: Expansion and Upgrade Options
• Reply #4: CMOS Battery Replacement (Mod/Hack)
• Reply #5: Outer Photo Tour of the CF-25LJF8AEM
• Reply #6: Inner Photo Tour of the CF-25LJF8AEM
• Reply #7: Decoding CF-25 Model Numbers
• Reply #56: CF-25 BIOS Setup Menus

Regarding Contributions and Corrections:

This is an active work in progress and is receiving updates or maintenance on a daily basis. However, in order to be truly complete, other CF-25 owners must step up with their information!

Ideally, I'd like to see one reply per topic as a way of segmenting and organizing the information. Of course, it's not always that easy when one person knows half of something and another person knows the other half. "Beneficial-to-all" modifications should also be posted here provided they are well-documented.

When making replies which document some feature of the computer, please make use of the post title box when making the reply. Make the title relevant as this will help people making searches find relevant information quickly.

>> If a post regarding a particular topic already exists and you have a correction or addition, please contribute it via private message so I can edit it into the appropriate post rather than having multiple replies on a particular topic. If the topic hasn't been addressed yet, feel free to make a new reply.

Regarding Official Panasonic Manuals, Original Drivers and BIOS Updates, etc:

The manuals, drivers, BIOS updates, etc. for these machines can be found on the Panasonic site via this link. Searching for "CF-25" reveals content for all 3 Marks.

For manuals specifically, note that there are some models which are not documented by any manual but the same basic information applies to most models of a particular Mark.

Regarding BIOS-related things:

I am currently pursuing the possibility of having either a new BIOS made or current BIOS modified, at least for the Mark 3, to be considerably more flexible than what Panasonic provided. There is no guarantee anyone will be able to do it or that any attempts will be successful. If you believe this is the type of thing you can help with, please PM me.

Supervisor passwords: they cannot and will not be cleared by removing the battery. We are not allowed to publicly discuss methods for clearing such passwords on this website. However, this has been documented (yes, for the CF-25) elsewhere on the internet. It is your responsibility to find it without our assistance.

 

Original Specifications by Model Number

There are 3 'marks' of CF-25.

Regarding the last character of the model numbers, M = USA/Canada, E = UK, G = Germany. The machines have the same specifications but different keyboards and included power cords.

Common to all:

• HDD type: EIDE/ATA
• RAM type: 144 pin 60/70ns 3.3V EDO SODIMM
  Please note that some newer memory types can fit in the slot, but will not work. You must use EDO memory!
• Audio: 16 bit 44.1KHz w/mono speaker and headphone jack; for specific hardware details see each Mark.
• Keyboard: sealed matrix water resistent rubber dome 87 keys (USA) or 89 keys (UK). German keyboard is not currently known. Note: it's been reported that despite the same layout, the keyboards between different marks may not be electrically compatible (or at least the little interface PCB that the keyboard and trackpad connect into)
• Pointing device: capacitive track pad approx 2x1.5"
• PCMCIA: 3 slots for Type I or II (bottom two are Type III aka Cardbus, bottommost is also ZV) all of which support 3.3V 400mA/5V 400mA/12V 120mA (current ratings are for all 3 slots combined)
• I/O: DE9 serial, DE15 VGA video, DB25 parallel, PS/2 mouse/keyboard (both combined on one port - either device type can be used on port, and common splitters do work), IrDA infrared
• AC Adapter: input AC 100-240V 50/60Hz auto sensing, output DC 15V 2.6A
• MP bay FDD: 1.44MB DSHD/720KB DSDD (high density/low density support). Note: no model seems to have included CD-ROM as standard equipment.
• Original OS: Windows 95
• Screen type: Active Matrix TFT LCD (except one model, indicated below) with native resolution of 800x600

Mk 1

Chipset: ???
Graphics: Chips & Technologies (model ???)
Audio: ???

• CF-25CG82AAM | CPU: Pentium 100MHz | Screen: 10.4" | VRAM: 1MB | RAM: 8MB expandable to 40MB | HDD: 840MB | Battery: NiMH 9.6V 3200mAh
• CF-25EGC2AAM | CPU: Pentium 133MHz | Screen: 10.4" | VRAM: 1MB | RAM: 8MB expandable to 40MB | HDD: 1.35GB | Battery: NiMH 9.6V 3200mAh

Mk 2

Chipset: Intel 430MX
Graphics: Chips & Technologies T65550-ES1
Audio: ESS AudioDrive ES1788F

• CF-25DGC4DAM | CPU: Pentium 120MHz | Screen: 10.4" | VRAM: 2MB | RAM: 16MB expandable to 48MB | HDD: 1.35GB | Battery: NiMH 9.6V 3600mAh
• CF-25EGC4DAM | CPU: Pentium 133MHz | Screen: 10.4" | VRAM: 2MB | RAM: 16MB expandable to 48MB | HDD: 1.44GB | Battery: NiMH 9.6V 3600mAh
• CF-25FJF4DAM | CPU: Pentium 150MHz | Screen: 12.1" | VRAM: 2MB | RAM: 16MB expandable to 48MB | HDD: 2GB | Battery: NiMH 9.6V 3600mAh
• CF-25FVF4DAM | CPU: Pentium 150MHz | Screen: 12.1" (Active Matrix STN) | VRAM: 2MB | RAM: 16MB expandable to 48MB | HDD: 2.1GB | Battery: Li-Ion 10.8V 2300mAh
• CF-25FXF4DAM | CPU: Pentium 150MHz | Screen: 12.1" | VRAM: 2MB | RAM: 16MB expandable to 48MB | HDD: 2.1GB | Battery: Li-Ion 10.8V 2300mAh

Mk 3

Chipset: ???
Graphics: NeoMagic MagicGraph 128ZV
Audio: Yamaha YMF715E-S (SoundBlaster PRO Compatible)

• CF-25LFC4EAM | CPU: Pentium MMX 166MHz | Screen: 10.4" | VRAM: 1.1MB | RAM: 16MB expandable to 96MB | HDD: 1.44GB | Battery: Li-Ion 10.8V 2300mAh
• CF-25LGF8EAM | CPU: Pentium MMX 166MHz | Screen: 10.4" | VRAM: 1.1MB | RAM: 32MB expandable to 96MB | HDD: 2.1GB | Battery: Li-Ion 10.8V 2300mAh
• CF-25LJF8EAM | CPU: Pentium MMX 166MHz | Screen: 12.1" | VRAM: 1.1MB | RAM: 32MB expandable to 96MB | HDD: 2.1GB | Battery: Li-Ion 10.8V 2300mAh. Note: known to be equipped with antenna pass-through for radio modems.

Lacking Information

Specs have been "decoded" using the information in Reply #7. Some info is still lacking however.

• CF-25EGC4CAM - Pentium 133, 10.4", 1.35 or 1.44GB HDD (which?), 16MB, Mk2
• CF-25FJF4CAM - Pentium 150, 12.1", 2 or 2.1GB HDD (which?), 16MB, Mk2
• CF-25FXF4CAM - Pentium 150, 12.1", 2 or 2.1GB HDD (which?), 16MB, Mk2
• CF-25LGM8EAM - Pentium MMX 166, 10.4", unknown HDD, 32MB, Mk3
• CF-25LJM8EAM - Pentium MMX 166, 12.1", unknown HDD, 32MB, Mk3

See also later in this thread Decoding CF-25 Model Numbers.

The majority of this information has been compiled by working backwards from the Mk1, Mk2, and Mk3 manuals. Some information has been obtained by cross-referencing known info or units I have and information provided by other users. Long story short, nothing here should be incorrect (incomplete if anything).

It is very possible that more models exist. PM me with the info on yours if you have an unlisted one!

 

Expansion and Upgrade Options

This post will outline the methods through which you can upgrade or add features to a CF-25.

External Battery Charger

Charges batteries outside of the CF-25 computer. P/N CF-VCB251

Port Replicator/Docking Station

There is at least one type of port replicator, P/N CF-VEB251W. They do not appear to be particularly common.

MP Bay ( multimedia pocket)

Known accessories:

• Floppy disk drive (P/N CF-VFD251? Guessing at this, they don't have a sticker...)
• CD-ROM drive (P/N CF-VCD252, there may also be a -251?)
• RIM radio modem (P/N CF-VEW251-AD). For use in models with antenna pass-through. Probably not usable anymore due to being rather obsolete.
• Secondary battery (P/N CF-VZS252. Output 9.6V 4.2Ah)
• Superdisk Drive Pack - LS-120 'floptical' disk drive (P/N CF-VFS251W)
• Cable to connect MP bay accessories to the serial port (P/N CF-VCF351)

(please contribute the missing info to me via PM so I can edit it in. TIA!)

RAM

The CF-25 (all models) accepts one module of 3.3V EDO memory in a 144-pin SODIMM package. All units have some permanently installed (soldered to motherboard) RAM and thus do not require a removable module to be installed in order to operate. Removable memory modules are added to the existing memory amount rather than disabling it (ex. if your model has 32MB built in and you install a 64MB module, you will have 96MB of RAM). The computers, depending on model, have varying maximum memory limitations (refer to original specifications post to determine what it is for your model).

The maximum RAM capacity may actually be higher than specifications claim for some or all models. One confirmed combination is adding a 128MB stick to a Mk3 with 32MB built in, giving a total capacity of 160MB. Since EDO sticks greater than 128MB are rare - possibly don't even exist - this is probably the highest amount of RAM any CF-25 can accomodate without motherboard modifications.

PCMCIA

The CF-25 (all models) has three PCMCIA slots. All three slots support Type I or II cards. The bottom two slots are also able to support Type III/Cardbus cards. The bottom-most slot also supports ZV cards. Note: despite the specifications claiming that Cardbus is supported, no Cardbus cards appear to actually work. By definition Cardbus cards are always 32 bit and 32 bit cards don't want to cooperate, so...stick to 16 bit PCMCIA unless you're simply wanting to test for compatibility.

3.3, 5, and 12V cards are supported. The cumulative max current consumption among all 3 slots cannot exceed 400mA for 3.3 or 5V or 120mA for 12V.

A simple eBay search for "PCMCIA" will reveal the vast extent of typically cheap accessories which should work in these slots.

People have said that the CF-25 is very picky regarding PCMCIA cards, especially type III/cardbus cards. A list of compatible cards will appear later in the thread and will be linked to both here and in the Table of Contents.

USB

The system's chipset appears to include a USB controller. However, the system itself does not have USB ports, and the system does not assign resources to this built in controller. There is probably a way to make it work but it would involve a lot of research and modification of both hardware and firmware.

Although not confirmed entirely, it is believed that no USB PCMCIA card will work properly (or at all) because the system cannot assign appropriate resources to them. It is quite possible that this is because all USB cards will be 32 bit by the nature of what USB is, so even if USB devices could be made to work the faulty/not present support for 32 bit cards would be another problem.

Because of this unfortunate reality, it doesn't seem very likely that USB expansion is possible for any CF-25.

Hard Drive

CF-25 computers accept standard 2.5" laptop hard drives (IDE/ATA). The height of the drive is not as important as it is in other laptops because the drive mounts inside a soft gel-like lining which, if necessary, could be cut back in size.

It would appear that Mk3 CF-25 computers have a hard drive size limitation of approximately 8GB (as determined by attempting to install larger drives and finding the size limited to around 8GB).

Bypassing this limit could be possible with a BIOS modification, however this isn't something everyone is capable of doing. A workaround is the use of drive overlay software.

The CMOS setup interface of the CF-25 is very limited in the options it provides. All IDE device configuration appears to be automatically detected, and should the auto detection fail, there are no settings to tinker with to try to correct the situation.

Random fact: the CF-25 motherboards are marked in such a way which suggests they were assembled by IBM, and the CMOS setup appears to be a de-branded version of that found in similar age IBM computers.

Other...

The serial, parallel and infrared ports are standards compliant. They should not require any special tweaking to operate with any peripherals intended for those connection methods.

The PS/2 port is the typical sort found on a laptop of this age. The use of a simple passive splitter (can be found on eBay for a few dollars shipped) enables the use of both an external PS/2 keyboard and mouse on this port. It is also possible to connect a keyboard or mouse directly to the port without a splitter but only one device can be used this way.

I would like to expand on this category if possible. If you have anything to contribute to it please get in touch.

 

CMOS Battery Replacement - Mod/Hack

This is only recommended for people who are skilled with soldering and the safe use of the involved tools. By performing this sort of modification, you understand that any warranties existing on your machine (perhaps third party like SquareTrade?) will probably be voided, and that if you do not do it correctly - for any reason, including lack of clear instruction - it is entirely your responsibility.

The CF-25 (all marks) has a 3V coin-cell CMOS battery buried deep within the computer attached directly to the motherboard.

If logic is anything to go by, every single one of these batteries should currently be dead, meaning that no CF-25 with its original CMOS battery is able to store the date and time or CMOS settings. Rare exceptions may exist...but we'll pretend they don't for effect.

My suggested solution is as follows:

What you need:

• Soldering iron, solder, etc. (anything you consider necessary to desolder and solder things)
• Button cell battery holder (can be bought in bulk on eBay for rather cheap prices, or harvested from dead desktop motherboards)
• Wire. At least a good 6" of thin, flexible wire. Two conductors will be needed. A good source for this is old computer case LEDs, keyboard locks, system speakers, etc. Red/black insulation makes life a lot easier...
• Fundamental soldering skills
• Patience and a steady hand

Procedure:

1. Open computer, remove motherboard from case
2. Locate CMOS battery (unknown for Mk1, top of mobo for Mk2, bottom for Mk3)
3. Detach battery from metal prongs. Not as easy as it looks. Alternatively, desolder prongs from mobo or simply snip.
4. Solder sufficient length wires to the two prongs or solder points, depending on what you did above. Keep track of +/- here.
5. Route wires over to hard drive bay, where the battery holder will eventually reside between the hard drive and the palm rest (unless you are not using the normal battery bay, in which case that is a better option). The clearance between the hard drive and palm rest is pretty much EXACTLY that of a button cell battery holder.
6. Attach to the wires (again paying attention to +/-) to a button cell battery holder. You should bend the pins downwards to reduce the height of the battery holder, and put hot glue over the soldered joints to prevent shorting on metal surfaces.
7. Piece computer back together being mindful of pinches for the wires. You may choose to hack out a small chunk of the metal casing somewhere to provide an easy route for the wires.
8. Install common CR2032 battery, fire up machine, default the CMOS settings, ensure all passwords reflect being cleared, save settings.
9. Reboot, set settings as you want them and save again.
10. Boot OS of choice, set date and time.
11. Power off machine, remove main battery if you have one, disconnect AC adapter. Let it sit for a few minutes. Power up the machine and verify that your settings have remained the same and clock is still accurate.
12. You're good to go!

PHOTOS COMING SOON.

For safety reasons you should NEVER attempt to solder anything directly to a battery.

 

Outer Photo Tour of the CF-25LJF8AEM

Click thumbnail to view full size image on ImageShack.
If the images disappear, please let me know by PM.


Meet the CF-25!


Top


Left side, showing MP floppy drive


Left side with no MP drive present. Take note of small coaxial connector inside bay to left of main connector (for RIM radio modem). This connector is wired directly to the antenna connection knob on the screen half, also visible.


Front showing handle, latch, infrared lens, headphone jack and power/battery status LEDs


Right side showing 3 PCMCIA slots (and edge of motherboard), PS/2 port, AC adapter jack and reset button


Back showing parallel, serial and video connectors, as well as Kensington lock slot

 

Inner Photo Tour of the CF-25LJF8AEM

Like what you saw in the Outer Photo Tour? Wanna rip it open like any other proper geek?

I decided to disassemble one of the CF-25s I have and photograph it at the various steps in the disassembly. The photos go in order from assembled to disassembled. They are not a comprehensive disassembly guide but are intended to show how things fit together.

Click thumbnail to view full size image on ImageShack.
If the images disappear, please let me know by PM.


Cover removed, hard drive padding removed, and handle unscrewed. Battery, RAM expansion slot, and hard drive visible.


Battery, RAM, and hard drive removed. Note that this machine has had a new CMOS memory battery installed.


A view into the MP bay with the top half slightly lifted. Although difficult to see, the keyboard and trackpad PCB can be seen plugged into the motherboard. Lifting the top half too much further causes it to unplug itself and come off with the top half. Orange/white wires are part of the CMOS battery mod.


Top and bottom halves separated, side by side.


Removal of hard drive ribbon and disconnection of LCD ribbon. These connectors are released by lightly pulling up on the small tabs on both sides of them. The ribbon will become loose when the tabs are pulled up. Do not be aggressive with these fragile connectors!


This specific model of CF-25 features the antenna pass-through for RIM radio modems in the MP bay. This is the cable which runs from the MP bay socket to the antenna connector on the screen. It is permanently attached at both ends and so will keep the screen assembly tethered to the motherboard unless you open the screen assembly (recommendation: never, ever do that)


This shot shows the antenna cable as well as speaker location and connection. Also visible on the right is the sensor for when the lid is closed and connection for it.


This is the speaker through which all sounds are played.


An overall disassembled bottom half shot. You can see the heat pipe design (which uses the metal case as a heatspreader) and also the bottom side of the motherboard including CPU socket (Mk 3 units have a standard Socket 7 CPU socket).

Note that in order to remove the motherboard from the bottom half of the case, you must remove the two small screws beside the dock connector as well as remove the d-sub screw receivers from the back. 3/16" socket should fit them. It is easy to forget these two details and you will almost certainly crack your motherboard in numerous spots if you don't remove them!


Close-up MP bay connector and antenna pass-through connector.

 

A continuation of sorts from the Specifications by Model Number post. Broken out into a second post because of length.

Decoding CF-25 Model Numbers

According to the service manual for Mark 1 CF-25s (order no. CPD9609026CO), this is what the different positions in the model number represent:

CF-25 abcdAA e

Where...
a represents equipped CPU
b represents LCD type
c represents hard drive capacity
d represents RAM capacity
e represents region

Though the service manual does not specify the mark or marks it applies to, we know it applies only to mark 1s because it only provides options for those variables that correspond to mark 1 CF-25s.

By running the Mark 2 and Mark 3 models through this pattern we will be able to figure out what the unknown letters represent.

CPU Field

Ex. CF-25 LJF8EAM

C - Pentium 100MHz
D - Pentium 120MHz
E - Pentium 133MHz
F - Pentium 150MHz
L - Pentium MMX 166MHz

LCD Field

Ex. CF-25L JF8EAM

G - 10.4" TFT
J - 12.1" TFT
V - 12.1" STN
X - 12.1" TFT

Multiple 12.1s might be explained by different suppliers.

Hard Drive Field

Ex. CF-25LJ F8EAM

8 - 840MB
C - 1.35GB, 1.44GB
F - 2GB, 2.1GB
M - ???

RAM Field

Ex. CF-25LJF 8EAM

2 - 8MB built in
4 - 16MB built in
8 - 32MB built in

Unknown two-letter code

Ex. CF-25LJF8 EAM

It looks like this might actually indicate the mark, but there isn't quite enough info to confirm this yet. If that is what it means, this is what they translate to:

AA - Mk 1
CA - Mk 2
DA - Mk 2
EA - Mk 3

Region/Area Field

Ex. CF-25LJF8EA M

E - UK
G - DE
M - USA/CAN

If you find a model or information which conflicts with or adds to this listing, please get in touch and contribute the info so I can make this as accurate as possible. Thanks!

 

Kishy -

Welcome to the forum! and...

Whuf... that there is some serious dinosaur-herding you've done there. I am impressed! You've spent quite a bit of time cataloging a lot of information on these machines. I'm not sure how many users there are out there still flogging these; by now I would imagine very few have screens that are bright enough to see clearly indoors, much less outdoors in their proper habitat.

Nonetheless, as a fellow dinosaur-herder, I am pleased to see you following this passion and helping to keep these little beasts alive.

Rep to you!

mnem<~~~Big fan of old-school~~~<<<

 

Well if it is true that the Mk 3 units have a standard Socket 7 CPU sockets, which there was some dispute over here at one time, then that opens up the idea of a CPU Upgrade.

The Pentium MMX was the first processor to use the then new split-rail voltage, with its core running at 2.8v. It might be possible to upgrade the CPU with an Intel Mobile Tillamook 266MHz or even a 300MHz model.

There is also the possibility that one could do a "Super 7" upgrade with an AMD K6-2 or even an AMD K6-2+ or AMD K6-III.

To do this would require that the motherboard be equipped with two switching voltage controllers (split-plane design), one for the CPU core voltage and one for the I/O voltage, which was characteristic of the Pentium MMX 166 design. It is necessary to get the core voltage down around 2.0 volts to support the AMD K-6 CPUs.

The great thing about the AMD K6s is that they will interpret the multiplier "2" as 6. So IF one can get the board to step down to 2 the resultant 6X multiplier would give you 396 MHz (6x66MHz). More speed would be possible if one could over-clock the FSB of the board, but this runs the risk of having problems with other components in the system.

This is not entirely speculation, I used to have a Socket 7 Asus P55T2P4, circa 1996, running stable at 600MHz loaded with the then new XP-Pro as a result of this ancient technology.

 

Kishy..... I know you asked for a sticky and I said no... But you are headed fr stickydom here.... It will most likely be inserted as a link into one of the already existing stickies... But people (if they read) will be able to spot it and find your info.

Well done! +Rep to you!

 

Heh, thanks

I figured that, as the machines age, it's more likely that the people who find such machines won't know anything about hardware of that age...I'm 20 and by the time I really started to understand much about computers, Pentium 1s were already obsolete...but I've had a lot of tinker-time with them in both desktop and laptop form so I've got a weird passion for them.

At some point I'd like to tackle battery rebuilding...if possible...because I'd like to get one of mine portable again. I have one original battery and it's toast, won't take a charge (flashing red LED symptom).

Mk 3s do indeed have normal socket 7 CPUs...but not the earlier ones, they used some borderline proprietary interface...starts with an M, can't remember it right now. Multiplier and frequency are supposedly locked...using Google you can find the technique someone has used to get a 233 working in one. Definitely need tech skills to make it happen but it's doable. My goal is to have that documented here as well but I want to track down the person who did that and have them write it up here if possible...I'd feel like a thief if I just took the info and put it here myself.

I too know about the 2x/6x trick with K6-2 CPUs. Very handy, I've got a working desktop example in the closet (it's a 450, set at 2x66 to get just shy of 400MHz like you said). I think we can exploit that here but cooling may be an issue. Keep in mind these machines are passively cooled only and while they have a decent heatpipe to spread heat across the case, it probably wouldn't take much to cause an overheat.

I know nothing about that chip you linked to...worth investigating, but I'd want to do a ____load of research first. Wouldn't want to damage either the CPU or the system.

I had a feeling I might shift that opinion lol

I'm reviewing the manuals and Mk 1 service manual again to see if there's anything else I can dig out of them before I move on to 100% inferences (I suppose the Decoding post was already 100% inferences, but pretty well-established ones).

If anyone has anything to contribute please feel free to, but be thorough if possible. Eventually I'll fire up a reply for known-working PCMCIA cards as well so if anyone has a CF-25 and would like to get to work testing, keep the info in a txt file or something until I have the post set up, I'd appreciate it.

 

Kishy.... Your thread is now stickied under The Ultimate Toughbook Resource Thread that Tomcat put together and is always a work in progrss.

Again... Good job on all the work!

 

Awesome, thanks

Hopefully someone, somewhere will benefit from the effort...even if not, this give me a chance to get to know my own units better anyway.

 

Kishy,
We met through these pages in a rather unusual way. You were looking for me at the behest of Captain Dogfish I believe and at the same time I was yaddling to you about Linux.
When you said just now that you are twenty it would have floored me if I wasn't sitting down. When I was twenty I was a fourth year full time professional firefighter (with a little time out for USMC).
These days people don't expect the kind of maturity that you exhibit "at your age". Roll on.
When you get to be my age I hope you have the same appreciation for youthful talent that I have.
As far as battery re-building: my philosophy is "they have two hands and I have two hands", with the right information,equipment, safety precautions and so on "I can do anything anyone else can do".

Well done.

Jeff
You may have this deleted as not relevant to your subject and I will take no offense. It could have been handled P.M. but I wanted to go on public record just this once.
J

 

Have it deleted? Pfft, no way lol.

Yeah, I'm told I generally do come off a bit more mature than the typical 20 year old, especially of my generation...I'll credit my family with that.

Thanks for noticing, of course

RE: battery rebuild, the biggest problem is I don't know if anyone has been successful at it...it has to actually be possible before it's possible right? There's a chain store in Canada (The Source by Circuit City) which offers a rebuild program to meet or exceed manufacturer specs...I think it's about $40 for laptop batteries...I'm curious to ask if they can do it, because if they can, anyone resourceful enough can.

 

That's what I'm saying. What century other than the last were you born in.

If someone built it and what they built hasn't vaporized through chemical chain reaction, someone else can duplicate the process. And probably improve on it.

Roll on!

Jeff

 

A man made it; a man can fix it.

mnem
OT.

 

I'm not sure how advanced the CF-25 batteries were/are. I know that the CF-28 and up have a chip inside that tells the battery it is bad and even if you put in brand new cells.... IF the chip tells the battery it is dead.... It stays dead.

There is apparently a company out in CA that has the means to reprogram the chips to let it know that it has new cells and it is okay to work again.... This is provided, of course, that there isn't anything else wrong with the battery PCB... Like it had been way over heated, etc.

You can try and let us know.... But I'd say that if you pull it apart and see PCBs.... You may have to reprogram it in order to work...

 

Yeah, we are all pretty much aware that the machines are passively cooled here, however, keep in mind that the computer is built to work in a wide range of temperatures.

With a under-clocked K6 CPU on board it may run a little hotter (or not), but that should translate into it being able to deal with less of an ambient temperature. A 400MHz CF-25 that will run XP in 85 degree ambient temperatures is more useful to most than a 166MHz running W98 at any temperature. Super 7 usually specified a 75MHz or better FSB, so the chip will most likely be underclocked, unless one want to tweak the reference Xtal.

As to the required 2x setting to get the desired 6X stepping, that may be achievable though loading a CF-25DGC4DAM BIOs. That BIOs was for the 120MHz Pentium, so it is 2x66MHz. That BIOs could fail to work though with the split voltage required of the Intel 166MHz MMX and the AMD K6 CPUs.

Or, there may be solder pads or diodes on the MoBo to alter the settings for the various CPUs used.

I no longer have one, so I am just guessing!

 

I don't believe the BIOS is so much of a limitation (ironic, since it's a huge limitation in other areas) as the fact that the board is physically not equipped to provide the changes.

Consider that someone has upgraded a Mk3 to have a 233MHz Pentium MMX...presumably it's possible to make it go backwards as well using a similar technique with a different pin perhaps?

Reverse-engineer their work and we may find the answer...

 

50% success rate with the wifi cards I've tried. Mind you, I've only tried two...

The working one is a Netgear MA401. Sadly it is only .11b and limited to WEP...but it works! And it works in the notorious top slot too!

Installed OS is Win98SE with zero updates installed - exactly as it comes off the CD.

Just happens to be my luck that my revision of this card can't be upgraded for WPA compatibility like the vast majority of other Intersil Prism-based cards...oh well. I turned off my wifi security entirely and actually went online on a CF-25...

(this is actually pretty decent when you think about it, because virtually all public hotspots are security-free or involve a login via web browser, no actual connection security. accordingly, this is a very workable setup if you use a wired ethernet card at home)

That card will be the first entry in the upcoming "Compatible PCMCIA Cards" post.

BTW, nonworking card is a Sonnet Aria Extreme, but after contacting Sonnet it appears that's not a hardware incompatibility...the later more common versions of this product are not compatible with their own Windows 98 software, so while the card installs with the driver just fine and the software will attempt to run, they refuse to play nice together. Support actually told me that the later versions of the card (the actual hardware) is not Win98 compatible but it is detected properly and Windows matches the driver to it...the only thing that seems to fail is the software interfacing with it.

 

Here are a couple of shots for the archives. If you want better ones I can email. These are 640 x 480.

Jeff

 

I like the part where the hard drive is still labeled in MB not GB.
CAP

 

Tomorrow we'll be saying the same thing about TB vs PB... and EB won't be far behind.

mnem
"The most likely way for the world to be destroyed, most experts agree, is by accident.
That's where we come in; we're computer professionals. We make accidents possible."

 

Greetings! I recently purchased a cf 25, on ebay, for $9.95. I did this just 'cause I was interested in the older toughbooks. The description said "no HDD, no battery or power supply, not tested-so what I just thought it would be cool to have one. Well I got it on thursday, opened it up, and it had a HDD, it had a battery, I used the power supply for my cf 28, turned it on and it booted to windows '95 (and the battery took a full charge, and would run it for 2.5 hours before I turned it off) What I would like to do is just use it for internet and I want to load windows 2000, but it doesn't have a cd rom, or a usb for an external one. How would I load windows 2000? Maybe swap the HDD to a cf 27 that has a cd/rom? that way I could use my wificard (cisco systems 350 series) Maybe later I would try to upgade the CPU, but for now just putting windows 2000 would be good.

Of course it has a small HDD (2-3 gb) I have an extra 6 gb HDD from another laptop, maybe if I loaded windows 200 on it, then put in the cf 25?
any ideas on this?

Thanks,
-DDaymen

 

Addition to last: It appears that this unit had been used by Pacific Bell, as it has a lot of software on it used by repair guys? The plastic 'TOUGHBOOK" label on the top even says "PACIFIC BELL", like it was made just for them!

 

My condolences. We'll be sure to keep the family in our prayers.

mnem
And another one joins the loony bin...

 

So, I guess that means what I want to do would be a waste of time??

 

Oh heavens no... I was just joking that you had DEFINITELY been bitten by the Toughbook bug, and WELCOME TO THE MADNESS!

As for installing the OS without an optical drive; this process works with Win2000 as well as XP :

http://forum.notebookreview.com/pan...g-cf-29-os-w-o-cd-dvd-floppy.html#post5799463

mnem
Shoving electrons around...

 

Oh good, to have wastes $9.99, horrible! I went to a link that had a bios I.D. download, as well as bios updates for the many different motherboard manufacturers, I will try that out to see if I can upgrade the bios, I think that cf25 has been sitting somewhere for a while, it looks brand new. As for the windows 2000 update I will have to install it on the spare (6gb) HDD I have, using another computer, as my cd/dvd module won't fit in the cf 25. As for the bios update, I guess I just "download" it to a pci drive, or maybe a floppy if it fits, then just boot off the floppy on the cf 25?
I'm not too keen on these things!

Thanks for the help!

-DDaymen

 

Dwight, you're going in the wrong direction! The normal upgrade path is to newer machines. Just kidding, I have a couple of Panasonic cables which connect media bay drives to the computer externally. I think they are intended for the floppys, but they might work for the cd as well. Someone else will know if your processor will support cd drives. Let me find the cables, they are around somewhere.
CAP

 

I'm new here so I can't contact thread autor in PM so I post it here. There is LS-120 a.k.a SuperFloppy drive avaible for CF-25 as additional MP acessory. Model number is CF-VFS251W Panasonic Toughbook CF-25 CF25 Super-Floppy Drive NEW - eBay (item 110442577137 end time Aug-01-10 17:33:19 PDT)

Got my Panasonic CF-25 MK2 some time ago from my friend in exchange for some beer. Now I'm commited to bring it to fully functional state. The notebook is in good condition, only few scratches on bottom and missing MP bay cover.

It have 16MB built-in memory, Pentium-120 CPU and 1,2GB hard drive made by Seagate. Keyboard layout is German QWERTZ, and it's rebranded Kontron Elektronik, so You know from where I got my nickname here It came with Windows95 German. I taked look at it with data recovery tools but nothing interesting turned out so i wiped the hard drive.

So far I ordered 32MB EDO SODIMM from eBay and disassembled battery pack to be ready for cell replacement. Still need to find MP CD-ROM to load operating system. I also upgraded BIOS from 1.00 to 1.40 version, so I got option to boot from CD-ROM.

In future it maybe have LS-120 drive or additional battery pack in MP bay, some sort of WiFi PCMCIA card and maybe solar panel.

 

Very very nice threat! Wish this kind of thing had started 12 years earlier... For years it was near impossible to find any useful info about the CF-25!

About the max Ram: an 128mb EDO stick no. CFBA61128 will work in a MK3. Giving the maximum RAM of 160mb... If I got some time left I'll try if it works in a MK2 too...

 

A 32MB EDO RAM + 16MB built-in will give me 47MB. Not much but just enough to run Windows2000.

Maybe bigger RAM will work also, but better safe than sorry. I don't have so much money to after weeks of waiting end up with non-working memory. Maybe the memory limit is based on BIOS not hardware, so maybe latest BIOS can support 128MB EDO RAM in MK2.

 

Okay, been gone for a few days!, I managed to download an earlier version of Mozilla Firefox, and managed to get my wireless L.A.N. card to work in the cf25! I got the driver from the Cisco Systems site, but boy is this computer slow! I will try to load windows 2000 on a 10 gig hd, then put it in the cf25, and also try to find the ram module that would fit in it, I am using one from my cf28, but it probably is not working in this unit, so maybe that's why it is slow. Captt. Dogfish, you mentioned some cables to connect media bay stuff externally, are these something you would part with? I will just use this for internet only, the only reason I am even screwing with it is because the darn thing looks like new, no scratches on the case or screen, and the resoulution is very bright, can even see in daylight! like I mentioned it says "Pacific Bell" on the toughbook label on the lid, and it hade some kind of technition software, it might have been sitting somewhere idle for years.

Thanks-DDaymen

 

Other stuff: is there any site where I can download a BIOS upgrade, some site that doesn't require a membership or $$$ I have a program that tells me what bios and what updates there are for the different progs.

-DD

 

Guys, will catch up on thread and stuff in next day or two. Sorry, just've been busy.

 

Bah screw it, I'll reply today.

Congrats on getting a CF-25!

Awesome that you have a decent battery and it included hard drive.

Remember, max hard drive capacity will be 8.4GB. Larger drives will be limited to this size.

I really recommend you do NOT install the OS on another machine. This works OK for Linux but Windows really ties itself to your hardware and an assortment of ugly things can happen with low level hardware drivers...it may work fine, but it may perform poorly, or you may continually get 'new hardware found' every time you boot up even though you already installed the correct drivers last time. What I like to do for Win98 is copy the CD \Win98 directory to the hard drive in another machine, boot with a DOS boot disk, then start setup from the hard drive. Faster, more reliable. Not as feasible for NT-derived OSs unfortunately.

If you have any intentions of trashing the original small HDD, please consider mailing it to me...I'd be happy to give it a new home.

Windows 2000 will run terribly on all but the most heavily upgraded CF-25. I wouldn't attempt it on any machine with a CPU slower than 266MHz and less than 128MB of RAM, but it will work...just slowly.

Yeah, I forgot about the LS-120 drive. Thanks, I'll add it to the list shortly. That price is way out of line for me to consider buying it though, especially since LS-120 media isn't particularly common and I have no other machine with an LS-120 drive.

Please do report status on that battery refurb project. Photos will be appreciated, even if you just dump them all into a folder on your hard drive and then post a ZIP file of them for other people to look at.

Nice, that's definitely more usable than 96MB. If you happen to have a spare or two, I'm looking to bump at least one of my units up at least to 96MB, 160MB would be even better of course.

What is the model of your Cisco wifi card? Or is it a Linksys?

Yeah, Win2k isn't a good idea on these. And a 10GB hard drive would be wasted due to the 8.4GB limitation.

Keep in mind these machines require EDO RAM, and laptop SDRAM is physically the same. It won't work, but it will fit in the slot and the machine will still boot.

The Panasonic website provides the most recent official BIOS update. I am currently trying to coax some BIOS experts into writing something more modern for us but it doesn't look too likely to happen.

If anyone has tried to get my attention in other threads please PM me if you are able to. I'm just going to set all posts read because going through and reading everything would take a huge amount of time and 99.9% of it doesn't apply to me anyway.

 

One eBay seller told me that it's possible to insert CD-ROM drive in MP bay and connect MP bay floppy drive to CF-25 using LPT-to-MPbay cable. And CF-25 will boot from LPT Floppy. I'm not sure this is true or not.

Temporarily Unavailable was online 2 days ago with all drivers for MK1 MK2 and MK3 including Win95 WinNT and BIOS. I'm crazy that I did not download them all before site got suspended, so I only got the BIOS for MK2.

Will it work with 8GB PATA SSD?

Yeah, I inserted 128MB SDRAM from other notebook, it was not recognized. The CF-25 booted without problems, and my 128MB SDRAM also did not get damaged and works fine in other notebook.

Can You post link please? I can't find anything on Panasonic site about CF-25.

I will try to make photos. I already opened the battery pack, but not much info missed. I just used knife and flat screwdriver to open it.

 

Wow! lots of good info! thanks a bunch. I think I'll just leave the thing the way it is, since I have other toughbooks/laptops to use! I'll just keep it as a "relic". As for the Cisco Systems Wi-Fi card, it si a 350 series. If I can find a copy of Windows '98 I might load it. If I do load Win. 2000 I will do it on a larger HDD, and you can have the old one if you like. Second thought, I,ll make you a deal, if you can load Win. 98 on a 8.4 GB hard drive, I'll swap you, even send some cash if the deal isn't even to you. I really don't have the resources to do the loading of an o.s., unless the unit has it's own cd.

I am figuring that the small HDD is something you can use, even if it is small??
If the swap proposition don't seem fair, let me know, as I don't really know these things! P.M. me if need be.

Thanks,
-DDaymen

 

I don't see any reason why it shouldn't. I was able to use a modern ATA-133 drive in the CF-25, it was just limited to ~8GB capacity...so an ATA-133 (or 100?) compliant SSD should work fine.

I already did I wasn't very clear though, they still have everything. Just punch in your full model number. If it does not find it, then just punch in "cf-25". See this quote from the original post:

Specifically I'd like to know where 'safe spots' to crack into it are so that I don't slam the screwdriver into critical electronics.

You're plenty welcome. I don't know why, but I seem to enjoy this type of thing.

Cisco Aironet 350?

(I still plan to compile a list of the PCMCIA cards that are proven to be compatible, which is why I want to know the specific model you have)

That deal sounds very workable to me, though I am in Canada. Shipping via USPS First Class would be around 5 bucks to me, back to you would likely be the same. We could reuse the same box as well.

Problem: I don't have any 8GB hard drives around. I've been looking for a while but they're not the easiest thing to find...most drives <20GB seem to have been trashed a few years ago at least.

Ideally I would like to have two 8GB hard drives for my own units, but several smaller drives are nice for testing/experimentation purposes.

 

The CF-25 orginally come with Windows 95. The Windows 98 have significant improvements in multimedia and FAT32 handling, but for machines with small amount of RAM Win95 is faster and more responsive. Thats because of different usage strategy for virtual memory.

The only critical electronics is where the connector is located. And the cutout fuse between two top cells near the connector. Not much to worry about in this old fasioned battery pack. Using knife carefully split apart casing. When they are cracked apart few milimeters, use sharp tool to pull the upper row of niMH cells down to other row of NiMH cells before lifting top halve away. So there will be no severed wirings from PCB to first cell. More info coming later.

There was some notebooks unable to use more modern drives supporting newer ATA specs. Probably I have more important things to buy than SSD for such relic, but it will probably be ultimate storage both in terms of performance and rugeddness. Also the Seagate drive that comes with my notebook seems to bet not the usual notebook drive of that era. It have much more silent bearings. It also looks more rugged from outside, can it be that they are some sort of "tough" drives?

As far as I know all 16-bit (ISA) PCMCIA cards are compatible, and none 32-bit (PCI CardBus) cards are.

 

I forgot I have a cf27 w/bad screen, it has an 8gb hd I can use for the cf25, but win. '98 won't work too good on this old thing? I also used the ram module from the cf27, but I guess it probably didn't work, and that's why it seemed slow, it was running on it's installed ram.

 

True, but you'd want to use Win98(SE) anyway for driver availability and stability and compatible software. Although many things that work in 98 will also work in 95, there are some that won't, and you're far more likely to find 98 drivers for a PCMCIA card than 95 (in my experience with virtually any hardware, the 98 drivers don't want to work for 95).

NiMH? My battery is Lithium Ion. Perhaps best I exercise caution when opening it in case there are differences.

I can't remember what brand it was but both of my units originally had the same brand of drive as each other. It wasn't Seagate though. I'm thinking Hitachi for some reason?

This bugs me a lot. The manuals all say very clearly that the machines support 32 bit CardBus cards, but the machines don't seem to. Irritating.

Win98 would work OK if you had 64MB of RAM, for sure. Less RAM and you'd likely run into issues pretty quickly (or should I say slowly?).

Does the CF-27 use EDO? I really doubt it, it's probably SDRAM.

 

Update about CF-25 MK2. When flashed with latest BIOS (1.40) it will support 64MB EDO RAM. According to info from https://panasonic.ca/english/customercare/sandd/softwareResults.asp

I wish I have ordered 64MB instead of 32MB from eBay.

 

64MB EDO SODIMM Notebook RAM Compaq Presario 1800T - eBay (item 130405759507 end time Jul-07-10 22:15:29 PDT)

I put a $1 bid on it for you to be sure it doesn't go unsold; good luck!

mnem
Gonk!

 

As soon as I find a site to download the updated bios I will install it, as soon as I figure out how to do so, I was using that cf25 last night, surfing (albeit a little slowly) the web, and I just like that little ol thing, something about it, maybe because it is like new, everything like hinges, keys real tight? or maybe it is because you can actually hear the hard drive running, like it has tiny ball bearings...

 

This link will give u some drivers. It has been there for years, so I don't know if it has the latest thing. But it is an old beast...

ftp://ftp.panasonic.com/pub/Panasonic/Drivers/notebooks/

 

Great link, thanks! Now all I need to do is figure out how to do it. Also bought a 64 mb ram stick for this cf 25, on ebay for $12.00, so that should help.

Thanks,
-DDaymen.

 

As I said earlier, I've posted the link before...but thanks for the new second link as well.