Toughbook CPU Upgrades BGA Rework

A while back when i was a bit more active on this forum people were looking into upgrading the CPUs. I mentioned that i would post when i could offer that to the community. I now have all the equipment and have trained several technicians. If somebody has a couple of donor dead boards so that i could do some test chip lifts on them, i will be able to get the right size solder balls and be fully confident in offering the service.

This is my setup, well part of it

XModdz - Video Games, Electronic Equipment Service - Springfield, VA | Facebook

If i am told which CPUs are needed i could find them. If not they can be provided with the main board.

 

Well I am glad you posted this because it's been ticking me off these last few days...I just knew we had a member that fixes game machines that had the machine to do the mod but do you think I could remember who...that is untill I seen your name . Welcome back...I have a feeling this thread is going to be a big hit

 

Very nice shop!! Looking forward to seeing how this goes.

 

I talked to you a while back on that and you said you were going to try and offer it later on.

I got a dvd drive from you to fix my sons xbox. I still haven't got around to loading the correct stuff on it as he plays on my xbox and just plays movies right now on his. At least it's installed and working, lol.

 

so this means new balls for our toughbooks? Driller

 

Yes. Teeny tiny ones. And lots of them; with swarm capability.

THIS is what I meant when I said you needed specialized equipment to do the CPU upgrade work people have been suggesting on these MBs (Before xbox showed up) : http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...05209301.65548.102843639805426&type=3&theater

mnem
Donn' drop my baalls, mang!

 

yea thats why i came back to let you all know that i will be putting new balls in your books

 

It looks like I need to decide on trying a 29 or 18 first by time I get home here in about a week if I don't have to work over. If I have the board and CPU what will the cost be about?

 

As long as it's ONLY in my books ;P

 

before i start doing any actual real upgrades if somebody could send me a few dead boards, i can develop the specifics and get the right sized balls for the cpu that would be great

after that i would be able to create a pricing structure for the community

 

Time to do some more CPU research tonight and throttling software just incase it's a little too much, LOL.

 

please keep us informed, oh yes, the left side ones too would be appreciated.
just to keep things ballanced.....Driller

 

i have a dead(?) 29 mk3 mobo. I pulled off a couple of the ffc locking mechanisms.

pm me with an address and I'll get it out to you when I can???

 

I also have a 29 mobo. Mines mk 2 (CF-29ETPGZKM). It's not dead, but has bad RAM. PM me your address if you want it to practice on.

 

XModdz
7702H Backlick Rd
Springfield, VA 22150
703-493-0646

All items can be shipped to that address, if you want to pm me that you sent something with tracking i can offer a discount to you when i offer that service for helping us get started

 

I know I have a CF-28 Mk3 MB... I don't think the P3 family went much higher than 1ghz before breaking out of the 133MHZ RAM rut, though.

We'll see; I'm probably going to be feeding the bulk of my collection of unused CF-28 parts back into the community here soon; I need the space it occupies.

mnem
Is this RAM past its expiration date?

 

O.T. --I used to live in Woodbridge, VA, not far from Springfield. Did they ever fix that Mixing Bowl, criss-cross, bottleneck, scissor intersection at 495/95/395? Used to close my eyes and pray to get thru there. (Just kidding, I didn't close my eyes, but looking didn't help.)

I will send my CF-29 mobo today or tomorrow.

 

they did fix it yes, but traffic is still getting worse in this area
im glad all i do is drive to work and home and nowhere else lol my shop is only 5 miles away

 

I'll ask the dumb question, If the cpu on a mk 4-5 cf-29 could be replaced using one of these BGA rework stations what would or could one replace it with, since it's a 1.6ghz single core cpu. I'm thinking not able to go with a C2D cpu because of limits of motherboard and graphics chip. I'm sure some of you guys probably have hashed this out already but I don't recall reading about this on this site. Sure I'd like to supercharge a cf-29 mk 4-5 and have something uniquely modded just because of what we all do by pushing the envelope. Yeah I know a cf-30 is probably the way to go with say a later model cf-30 mk2. That is the next level( I hear you Rob) is where I'm headed for a fully rugged TB. I still have a romance with the cf-29's. Old habits die hard...Driller

 

Well lets just take a look at it. You will be looking at upgrading to a Pentium M. Largest one made was 2.2

You can use this thread for reference on this.
~Toughbook Talk~ Toughbook Discussion • View topic - CF-51 Single Core Cpu Upgrade Q and A

Mk4/Mk5
CHIPSET: Intel® 915GMS
CPU: Intel® Pentium® M 778 1.6 GHz LV

Three type of Pentium M chips in this category. Standard voltage, Low voltage and ultra low voltage.

Toughbook Mk4 and 5 currently uses the LV chip and the biggest one of them made is surprise, surprise the 1.6 778 that is in there now. The biggest ULV is the 1.3 so that is a no go unless you want a tad more battery life. So that leaves the standard voltage to choose from.

VOLTAGE REQUIREMENTS
LV 0.988–1.116 V 10 W

SV VARIES 1.26–1.404 V 27 W
0.988–1.356 V 21 W
They run two basic watts on the Pentium M 21W and 27W. By running the 21W model you Keep the voltage down to what it should be pulling over double the watts.

In this series the top two dogs are 2.1 and 2.2. These are a lot more costly than the 2.0 Pentium M. The 2.0 seemed to be a sweet spot in temperature and performance compared to the 2.1 and 2.2. They have always put out a lot more heat than the other Pentium M's.

Heat is going to be the biggest thing, that is the main reason a lot of manufactures swapped to the LV chip as the battery savings is there but not as good as the heat savings. Even the Gobook 3 had a fan with a 1.8 Pentium M. I am looking into heat sink mods and throttling software for this project right now. I think it would be best to test out on a Mk 1,2,3 in-case the heat can't be shed off enough it won't have messed up a Mk4/5 mother board for the first try on this.

Mk1 -- Intel 855GM / M 1.2GHZ LV

MK2 -- Intel 855GME / M 1.3GHz LV

Mk3 -- Intel 855GME / M 1.4GHz LV


I think the 2.0 755 or the 1.8 745 will be the best to test out.

 

Dare I hope to be able to upgrade CF-74's CPU?

 

I think the 74 will be able to upgrade this way, it has a fan so it will take the heat a little better. It will be comparable to upgrading the CF-51 Mk3/3LL.

The biggest challenge on the CF-18/19 / CF-29/30 will be heat, I have started looking at other computer heat sinks and heat sink mods so maybe we can push some of these models a little further.

 

I received a CF 29 board about a wk ago. I just now put it on the machine for a test and lifted the GPU cleanly all solder balls are still intact and they are about .8mm in size, i forgot the 29 was lead and not lead free so it was actually liquid before the end. I will adjust it and then move on to the cpu, at which point i will place them both on and relift to ensure that the placement was successful.

As long as the mainboard supports the CPU you want transplanted then yes it should work without any problems. Obviously if its incompatible it wont boot.

As far as the heat goes, that will be up to you guys lol, i will just perform the swaps. The only thing i could think of is using copper shims.

Its basically the same thing as upgrading a desktop or laptop CPU that is in socket format except its BGA. So it must be support the replacement chip.

I will make a video of the CPU removal and installation as soon as i get a chance. That way you can look at the clean lift and shiny balls lol.

 

Really looking forward to this new avenue that may well apply to many of the toughbooks steroid use( known to cause shiny balls as I've been told)....Driller

 

What about just soldering on a mFCPGA socket in place of the CPU? Then we could use pinned CPUs.

I know the CF-18/19 have a very deep and solid heatsink that could be machined down to accommodate the extra height of the socket.

 

I think the problem with messing with the heat sinks, especially in machines that are passive, is that the faster processors are generating more heat. That's already potentially a problem without probably decreasing the heat sink's ability to absorb and dissipate heat. We'll see what happens once we get live boards changed out and running. The other issue I see is provided the solder holds it is much more secure from a shock standpoint which is part of why Panny does them that way I presume.

 

by doing all that, you are re engineering the toughbook which was designed very well i mean out of all the electronics out there the toughbooks do not suffer from BGA issues such as xbox 360 ps3 or cheap hp laptops

 

amazing machine that is on your Facebook site. My laptop is running fine but should I find a high end tough book for cheap, and it does not work, then may consider buying it and sending your way. Do you test all the chips on the tough book and repair them?

 

99% of the time its the GPU that goes bad, 2ndary are the SB & NB chips but rarely

after repairing the board we do stress tests to ensure the repair is successful and not a fluke

there is no real way to test all the chips aside from the stress test or buying an x ray machine which is $40k but i plan on making that my next purchase

i havent forgotten about yall, just way busy training other guys so when we start offering it will be smooth and trouble free for both parties

 

still havent forgotten about you all, got extremely backed up at the shop ending up doing a lot of the work myself due to having terrible employees

the back log is getting taken care of and i will place the cpu that i took off the cf 29 board and then remove it again to ensure it went on successfully after that i can take a cf 30 from somebody and start there after getting a proper profile down i can offer the service with my full confidence

 

We haven't forgot either, lol. I have been collecting a few things to try out. Going to see if I can get this to work, and if it does work see what other CPU it can handle. Nothing major say 1.8 core 2 duo. And if we screw up it didn't cost a arm and a leg.

Panasonic Toughbook CF30 Motherboard NON WORKING maybe parts | eBay

 

what do you think a cf-30 mk 2 could be upgraded too? this is going to be an interesting trick here..Driller

 

hehehe, you're thinking about upgrading to an i7 quad core???

 

really don't know what the MB will take as far as limits are. Memneth I'm sure would know and you probably know this too. Just wondering how much more mileage we could get out of these durable platforms..Driller

 

the cf-74 might be a better platform to do a real upgrade as it has the fan but I was looking to hot rod any of the toughbooks that could prove a price effective option as opposed to buying a new latest and greatest TB. Call me cheap, but I have a volvo with a lt1 and turbo 400 tranny, and I really do like the TB fully tough and semi tough business TB. The guys that are more familiar with the cf-18/19's seem to feel these may be a good candidate as well. just thinking..Driller

 

The dual core toughbooks are going to have a lot more options as far as upgrading than the older ones. The 74 I know went up to a 2.4 core 2 duo from the factory. The core 2 duo's will drop right in where the core duo's are at. The core 2 duo's throttle back better than the Pentium M series did.

The 29 I think will take the Pentium M 2.0 755 but the chip runs at twice the watts 21w vs 10w. It already has the biggest LV chip installed, so to get any gain you will have to go to the standard mobile CPU. The 18 is on the same boat as the 29. It has the next to the biggest chip in the ULV series a 1.2, they do make a 1.3. Watts pulled by the chip is 5.5. If you stepped up to what is in the 29 you could see about putting a 1.5 7.7 watt cpu in there. The 1.6 in the 29 pulls 10 watts. So the 1.5 looks like the best option to keep temps down on that model. Messing around with the Pentium M family I have several older gaming laptops. The 2.0 of the series ran lots cooler than the two top dogs that are 2.1 and 2.2. I am just now sure how doubling the wattage would affect cooling on it as part of what it draws is based on CPU load.

52's and 74 in my opinion are going to be the best candidates for this because of the fan. I am sure it would be easy to find or mod a little bigger fan/heat sink combo into it if necessary.

The CF-30 and 19 should be better for this mod also considering the core duo/ core 2 duo has better built in throttling if needed. Heat sink mods may be needed if you go with a lot larger CPU though.

I have just picked up a CF-74's this time at work. I wouldn't mind doing some mods to see how it would work on it so it can be our test bed.

I got a 7600 graphics card out of an alienware that I need to get done right too. I should work fine as I did the oven trick in an industrial hot air oven at work. Worked for a couple of months then got the white screen again, I didn't mess with it again because I didn't want to mess up the chance of it working again. A good reflow/reball should fix it good.

 

by the end of the mth i will be ready
if somebody has a board they are willing to have me give it a shot on, it will be dropped to $20 for the upgrade service

a guy sent me a cf 29 board, and he will get the service for no charge

compatibility wise google will be the best shot on figuring out which models support which processors

if somebody can dump cf 30 bioses from different cf 30 boards that have 2 different processors they can compare them to find out if the bios has to support the processor upgrade

 

You might also consider pulling one of the banks of on-board RAM out of the CF-29 to make it a 512MB on-board model, thought I suspect one could be disabled by cutting a trace...

That would allow you to upgrade the machine all the way to 2.25 GB of RAM like mine. Check in my link signature below for details. This will only work for the Mark 4 and 5.

Best of wishes in this bold venture! Right now I am down in New Orleans doing Hurricane Issac relief work and my CF-29 is my link back home!

 

On the ram upgrade I remember seeing one member experimenting with it on a CF-28. He had booting errors and it was one chip of the onboard ram. (Mk1 or Mk2 CF-28) He took the bad ram chip off of the machine thinking it would just make his ram less but it still reported it had the full amount of onboard ram in BIOS. (He was thinking of removing all onboard ram) Trying to find the thread on it, but haven't found it yet. No telling what may be locked out in bios, we know a few WWAN cards are white listed. HP is bad about that on locking out the motherboards on future upgrades.

 

Yeah, we figured that was because either it was hardcoded into the BIOS or more likely that the BIOS went by what the SPD chip associated with the onboard memory reported back to it; just as if the RAM were a module in a slot.

As long as your upgrade chip is the same form factor (obviously) and has the same FSB & RAM Type (DDR2, DDR3, etc) it SHOULD work. Most modern CPUs control the L1 & L2 cache entirely on-die, so the BIOS SHOULDN'T be affected by size variations there.

mnem
I'll have mine with Sour Cream & Chives, please.

 

I have played with cpu swaps in the past, mainly on Getac's by adding a socket to run "normal" cpu's. It can be a real pain in the a#$ at times getting it to run correctly.

Things like custom BIOS work especially on the newer EFI bios Toughbooks
that is used on anything MK3 and up is near impossible from what I have learned.

Prove me wrong and you can do up a i7 CF-19 for me. I can cnc-mill a custom heat-sink for it no problem, there is plenty of room under the main-board to add some aluminum.

Btw does the 19 mk5 or mk6 have a cpu socket or is it still BGA? You should
be able to see it if you open the side doors and look through the laptop.

 

thats my thinking, for laptops that have nvidia or ati gpu chips can be upgraded to higher models
knowing which chips are compatible are hard to tell but i go by this information

most laptops have a single board in there line and the higher models use the same board just with more features ie 256mb gpu, 512mb gpu and so on

so with a base model you can change the gpu or even put a gpu on it, as some base models lack a gpu altogether

sometimes also nvidia or ati will release a 2nd generation gpu and you can swap it to that

i put some more videos of the work that we do online
HOPEFULLY i will remember to make a video of me putting the toughbook cpu back on the cf 29
http://www.facebook.com/XModdz
xboxhaxorz - YouTube

 

CF 29 BGA Rework
XModdz Repairs: Panasonic Toughbook CF Reflow Reball Rework CPU GPU Upgrade - YouTube

 

Great video. Is the equipment you use expensive to buy, and is it difficult to use ?

 

Yes it is difficult to do it RIGHT, out of my training of 9 people only 2 have successfully completed my training

 

I have a couple CF-28 mobos' that I don't use anymore if you need some more for testing, just let me know

 

thanks the cf 29 and older use lead solder, the cf 30 and later use lead free when i removed the chip it was able to be removed earlier than i expected and then i remembered

i feel confident now and am ready for cf 30 upgrading

 

Looking at that dead CF-30 motherboard I got from ebay I didn't see any burnt/bad spots on it. I do see one corner of the CPU that isn't stuck down as good as it should be, I then stuck the corner of my screw driver on there and sure enough the CPU isn't fully down. That may be the only thing that is wrong with it. It may be worth a try to see if it will work again if we can find a cheap enough cpu and do the upgrade all at once.

 

send it down and ill have a go at it

 

I was wondering when somebody was going to attempt something like this. I hadn't found any processors that would pin match my 28s to want to try this, but I had blown a few PS3 chips off, and swapped them to other motherboards.

I haven't done much soldering this year (I don't think), but I did quite a bit last year when I still worked a "normal" shift. Memory chip swaps were my primary thing though.

How long has it been since I stumbled in here?