Toughbook thermal pads

A while back i replaced my thermal pads in my cf 29 which was expensive. I am looking to buy a bunch since i do laptop repair, not toughbooks just HPs and such and want to put the thermal pad to decrease the gap even more between the heatsink. I am sure all of you are aware of the HPs that die.

I seem to come across these real thin layer pads. Something thicker such as the TB pads or even a bit less.

Any ideas? On that note, im also looking for copper shims or at least some high quality shim sheets so i can cut my own?

 

Read this post.

http://forum.notebookreview.com/panasonic/512706-cf-29-cooling-mods.html

 

Hi I`m well aware of the overheating issues with HP`s. I do a couple of mod`s with them which usually drops the heat by about 20 to 30%, first and formost is to make sure the CPU is properly cleaned and seated onto the heatsink with a good quality silver based thermal compound (my personal favourites are Akasa and arctic silver) secondly I replace the thermal pad on the GPU with a copper shim (readily available on ebay in sizes between 0.5 and 1.5mm) and also seat that with a little silver thermal compound.

The trick is finding the shims that fit best, the only advise I can give is they all move when fitted but your looking to get a little resistance so when the thermal compound hardens off a bit it holds it but it`s not gonna fall out if give it a shake. Trial and error that part I`m afraid as even identical laptops will need different thickness shims.

John

 

The only way I`ve found so far to get consistent sizes is buying through ebay unfortunately, if your planning on buying a lot your best bet is probably the chinese sellers, though you`ll wait a little longer they are surprisingly helpful and about the cheapest on the market, alternatively have them made your self at a fabricators/engineers but I think the cost would probably be prohibitive.

John

 

I'm in a similar situation, as my CF-29L has an overheating problem. You're right that most sellers seem to carry these really thin pads... if they even tell you the thickness at all.

I've been looking for pads equivalent to the ones mentioned in that previously-linked thread here ( http://forum.notebookreview.com/panasonic/512706-cf-29-cooling-mods.html ). These are from FrozenCPU, and are 1.5mm in thickness. The trouble is, I don't really want to pay $20 plus shipping for a large pad that I will only partially use.

I did a Google search for "1.5mm thermal pad" (without quotes), and the following promising hit came up:

EK Thermal PAD 1.5mm Thicknes (40x20x1,5mm)

This seller carries pads that are 40mm X 20mm X 1.5mm, for $3.00 each. Admittedly, those are pretty small, and you might need more than one to replace all of your Toughbook's internal pads.

I bought two yesterday, and once they arrive I will let you all know how they worked out.

 

@ OperationDinnerOut, I`m not sure about the layout of the heatsink on the CF-29 but if it was not fitted with a thermal pad to start with (i.e. just thermal compound) then dont fit one when you strip it down, as good as they are thermal pads are not up to the job of carrying heat away from the cpu effectively. thermal pads are normally used on the gpu as it does not generate quite as much heat, that said it does still generate heat so the best method I have found on other makes of laptop is reseating the cpu with silver thermal compound direct to the heatsink and using an appropriate copper shim on the gpu with a small amount of thermal compound.

One more piece of advise is never ever use thermal compound in conjunction with a thermal pad (the soft semi adhesive type not the copper shims) as it has the effect of turning a heat conductor into an insulator with the obvious effects of drastic overheating!

John

 

The CF-29 is meant to use thermal pads rather than paste - you can see them in there when you take one apart.

On some level, I feel it would be more convenient if they used paste instead of thick pads, but I'm sure Panasonic/Matsush!ta had their reasons. In this case, the stock pads are rather thick, which means that thermal paste might not even reach all the way across the gap between CPU and heatsink!

Come to think of it, copper shims also sound like a good idea, but who knows how thick they would need to be for a CF-29. Also, I've never owned a machine that used shims (to my knowledge), so I don't know if the use of shims requires some special additional consideration besides the thermal paste needed to interface it.

Frankly, I just want to install whatever works, test it out, verify it, then forget about it. I guess by that reasoning, though, I should spend the substantial extra money with Heartland...

 

While copper is a great metal for heatsinks, the application of shims is hard as mentioned getting the right thickness. Too thick and you put pressure on the chips, which is bad or no? I am not sure but i would assume bad. Or they are too thin and are pretty much useless unless you stack them or sandpaper them with a dremel.

I feel the pads would be better, since they are squished to the appropriate size thus filling any gaps. My application would be as5, pad, as5.

The toughbooks are actually really well built, i was amazed to find them fanless at least the cf 29 and still be really cool. I believe the entire bottom lid is the heatsink.

Also i have undervolted the cpu on my TB which brought temps down as well. I just have not really found a way to undervolt the gpu, however less heat coming from the cpu causes slight gpu cooling since there is less heat in the case.

I may or may not try the shims due to size issues, but i do believe the thermal pads with as5 should be worthwhile provided we find the thick pads.

I found shim sheets on amazon for about $9 i may give it a shot and sand them down to size. Again i am worried about having it too thick thus putting more pressure on the chips.

 

i just did an estimate price, $20 for 5 isnt terribly pad. but i would rather have a big sheet to cut myself, but do let us know on the thickness of the pads.

 

Actually the cf29 uses a putty that comes in a sheet form. I opened a parts cf29 and I took the thermal material off and rolled it into a ball.
Fujipoly is what I came up with to use.

Fujipoly

150-XPE
150 means 1.5mm XPE is the material.
The XPE has a thermal conductivity of 11 W/mK. Which from what I found out is really high performance. Thermal conductivity of 6 W/mK is considered high performance.
Here is a link to one source of the 6 W/mK. The 11 W/mK is a bit harder to acquire.

Fujipoly_Premium_System_Builder_Thermal_Pad Frozencpu.com

Premium Thermal Pads FrozenCPU.com

 

does anyone know what the specs are for the thermal pad for the cf-29's? I've got the fujipoly material from frozen cpu and insalled it along with some placing it along with artic silver ceramic in the heat pipe area in the media bay and have noticed what feels to my lap an increase in temps. though when I check readings with cputhermometer and cpuid the temps don't really measure any higher as best I can tell. am planning to open up some of these laptops that I modded with this added pad material and see how it's holding up, that is hopefully it isn't running and making a mess.....Driller

 

I think thats a good sign of it transferring the heat away from the processor




Alex

 

Very interesting. I mean that.
I've been running plain Fuji pads (no Artic Silver) and results are noticeable. At least four different units. CF29 Mark 2, 3, 4 and 5.
Driller, let us know what you see. The pads themselves are mooshing down nicely in the one I went back into.
Value wise I bought quarter sheets of .5 and 1.5. Haven't used the .5 yet.
deere thank you for the Fujipoly link. I know which side is up now. Or is it down?

Jeff

 

How did you manage to find out the specs of the CF 29 pads? Wow no wonder these TB last forever and way expensive everything is very high quality But the 6W is great, if we find anything higher wow that is even way better.

Is this proven, i figured it would help if anything. How is it counter effective?

 

I don't know the Toughbook specs for sure. This is just the best thermal putty I can find.

 

Also, just thought since copper has to be cut for each individual application and many laptops have different requirements putting the thermal pad and then a thin piece of copper would prove to be the best. Since it wont put any pressure on the chips, because the thermal pad will pretty much be squished to the perfect size.

Where as if we were to only use copper and have it fit perfectly, that would require a lot of work especially for each laptop brand. Thus just a thin piece as mentioned above would work best.

 

i purchased the thermal pads from this thread, the 1.5mm as well as 0.8mm copper sheets which i cut to size for a laptop not TB and put it on the gpu. on idle it gets around 48c and using stress test a max of around 70c and this is a amd with nvidia gpu. so i do believe fresh pads with the copper shims help, i tested with just the thermal pad, and again after i put the shim on top of the pad, artic silver on top of that and it reduced around 4c.

 

An update for you folks - I received the thermal pads that I had ordered:

EK Thermal PAD 1.5mm Thicknes (40x20x1,5mm)

I replaced the old factory pads on my CF-29L with these new 1.5mm pads. I also applied some cheap Arctic Silver (also purchased from Sidewinder, for $5) to the CPU cooler's heatpipes, where they terminate onto the bottom cover of the laptop. Everything is running great!

My CPU temps run 38-45 deg C. Previously, they had been running 75-85 or higher! This caused instability and crashes, the longer the machine was left running.

 

did you test before and after of the artic silver on the heatpipes?????

 

No. Considering the situation, I swapped the pads, applied the compound, and called it good. It's entirely possible that the application of thermal compound to the pipes had minimal or no effect.

 

I have been wondering about this material... I sent a request to Fujipoly for a sample on Friday but have not received a response... 17.0W/mK

XR-M
Sarcon ® Thermal Gap Filler Pads are highly conformable and high heat conducting gel materials in a versatile sheet form. They easily fit and adhere to most all shapes and sizes of components, including protrusions and recessed areas.

In areas where space between surfaces is uneven or varies and where surface textures are a concern regarding efficient thermal transfer, the supple consistency of the pads is excellent for filling air gaps and uneven surfaces.

XR-M
Thermal Conductivity watt/mk FTMP-1620 (ASTM D2326 Equivalent) 17.0

 

sounds good, do they make them in 1.5mm thickness that we can use on cf-29? and what about cost? and how does it compare with what panasonic already puts in the toughbook. again nobody knows the specs as far as how much thermal conductivity it delivers. The sarcon, I believe I read they are a silicone based material and the pad used from the factory may not be that at all, is there a problem using a silicone material against the magnesium that is the main component of the TB casing?

 

It's polymer-based colloidal (solid suspended in a liquid) material; most commonly silicone-based, but I've seen some other materials as well, including silica and silver powder (Similar to the Arctic Silver & Ceramic TCPs we use on conventional cooling solutions). I believe the FujiPoly is a silicone lattice material with ceramic-filled polymer gelatin in suspension.

Silicone sealant is quite another thing entirely; it has poor thermal and electrical conductive properties once cured. DO NOT try and replace these pads with it; much mayhem will ensue.

mnem
That would be BAD.

 

Ahhhh, the fire breathing Dwagon! who would know more about things that melt and wreak havoc! the perpetrator of M&M's (mischief and mayhem), the author of" fry me to the moon" a real thriller to the Driller! any way, what is the panny thermal pads made of? snakes and snails and puppuy dog tails? the suspense is killing me, I gotta know!........Driller

sorry about the cold, no fire breathing today, so now we know what the panny heat pads are made of KERCHOOOOOH!!!!!!!, bless you Dwagon

 

Driller,
You haven't been at the laughing gas again have you?

 

Depending on the particular RTV ("room temperature vulcanizing") Silicone used, it may emit acetic acid during the curing process.

VERY bad for electronics!

 

From my research, I found that the 6wmk putty pads are considered high perf. Considering that we are not overclocking these things, 6wmk should be more than enough. I think it is more of an issue to use the incorrect thickness or several different thermal materials at the same time. If someone uses a 6wmk putty then why use paste?
I used the 11wmk because I wanted to try it. It has the same color and consistency as the OEM putty found on my CF29E. I used some 6wmk .5mm pads under the heat rails and 11wmk 1.5mm on the 2 chips. The bottom may get a tiny bit warmer now.
The 6wmk is readily available and 11wmk or 17wmk is pretty much unobtainium on the retail market.
I feel that there is probably not much difference between 6wmk and 11wmk(or 17wmk for that matter)on these machines. Be sure you use the correct thickness and application techniques. If the 6wmk works for water cooled overclocked I7's etc..then I figure it's more than enough for our 1.2-1.6ghz Pentium M's.
Panasonic designed an entire cooling system. I don't feel that the exact wmk specs for the thermal putty are that critical. As long as it is high perf and the correct thickness is applied properly I don't think the magic smoke will come out.
Since the original is a putty, and rolls it up into a ball and can be flattened back out, why not reuse it? I tested it on my parts machine and it crushed properly when I reseated the base of the unit.

My .02

 

This is a point I've tried to make repeatedly on this forum; high performance thermal compounds only make a significant difference if your existing cooling solution is inadequate.

HOWEVER - and this is a BIG HOWEVER - many of the popular processors on the market - particularly those using the exposed-die FCPGA design - are INHERENTLY designed with inadequate covalent area for the device design's heat dissipation. I see 95W and 125W chips with 1/4 the surface area of power transistors in the same td range; it doesn't take a GE Engineer to understand that something isn't right here.

Of course you can - and they DO - make up for that by designing more aggressive cooling devices. The OEM Heatsink for an AMD 4-core or 6-core processor looks like something we'd expect to see from Thermaltake or Arctic a few years ago.

Yes, it works. That doesn't mean it isn't an inherently flawed design; perhaps even intentionally flawed. Years of experience in the industry have proven that fan failure is the #2 cause of hardware turnover in business PC fleets, right after thermal breakdown resulting from failure to remove dust accumulation in a timely fashion. (In other words... PM, PM, PM...)

If we design around a mechanism with a fixed lifespan (the life of the cooling fan); then the expected life of that product will be the life of that mechanism. Then we can plan for turnover. Then we can plan on repeat business. :wink:

mnem
Repeat, schmepeat. Why not just cut me a check for half your net worth RIGHT NOW?

 

It's the commercial variant of SLURM.

mnem
SLURM - It's from a giant space worm's bum!

 

Remember, even the best thermal pads used will have to contend with the stock heatpipe/heatsink system used in these rugged models

Heat is generated when a large percentage of processer is being used
I have run @ 100% for a few hours at a time in my cf-30
It gets hot

 

What's the failure rate of the rugged models due to cpu/gpu overheating?
Has anyone retrofitted a mk4 or mk5 heatsink assembly to a mk2?

 

TBs generally dont have a failure rate, especially with the cpu. The cpu is designed to operate at high temps, its the gpu that is the problem.

I bought a sheet of the 6/mw because i will be using it for other laptops. So i wanted something of high cooling effectiveness. The TB is generally amazing with there cooling system hence the high price. These lower end laptops have horrible cooling methods, but it seems the 6/mw has helped on a hp dv6000.
I am interested though in these 11 and 17/mw. I searched google and as mentioned they are not readily available.

 

the thermal pads for the memorys of a HD Mobility 5850
is better more thermal conductivity or less?
(that thing x.x W/mK)
x = a number

 

The higher the numeric value the better.
11w/mk is better than 6w/mk.

 

Hi,
How accurate is cputhermometer software?.
My cf-29 shows upto 96 C when under heavy load (video conversion).
At this moment it shows 74 C and the under side is warm (in Dock).
Is this normal or the software way off.
How about posting some temps as examples
cheers

 

that is awfully close to its maximum temperature, may be wrong but the cpu would probably come close to "downshifting" its speed to lighten the processing load. cputhermometer seems to be in a "stuck mode" when you first engage it and it doesn't seem to change unless you either reboot and check the temps after rebooting laptop. cpuid has a program(ain't free) that may monitor much better and give hdd temps and other info.I believe Topcop1988 has mentioned this in a earlier post. I'd check and see if the heat dissipation pad that goes over the cpu and I guess the graphic chip is in need of replacing, at least. Gork! has just re-rolled the material and flattened it out if it wasn't too dry to re-place it. Heartlands will sell the original material or get some from frozencpu.com 1.5mm thick to replace it. sure there has been a lot said about this already as well as putting some of this in where the heatpipe is anchored in the MP bay area. I really do think the temps are WAY TOO HIGH! what have the readings been under lighter use? hope this helps, Driller

 

@Tomcat57,
Hold on ,you mean alien ware one of those multi coloured rainbow looking things,made from old recycled bottles that would most probably stop working when you fart on one. No way hose.
We should go outside now and I should give you a slap for making such a suggestion,lol. Im proud to have my CF-29 as desktop here.
I getting a new wlan card in a couple of days, I'll look by rs and see if they have such cooling pads, as from the States to Germany has it's problems,what with the import tax and the current state of alert, the customs will most probably mistake the fujipoly as plastic explosive. I would then see my packet on the evening news as it is being blown up from bomb disposale experts.lol
I think maybe the cpu thermometer program is not quite right or in english sh*t
cheers

 

Hey, I like the colored lights on them gaming models

I tried the utility and it reads temps at 55 , and when watching tv it increases to 65 on my cf-19

 

Do the lights flash?
Not that while playing a game you end up lying on the floor shaking and laying in your own puke. When lost in the jungle those things can only lock in the wild animals but not show the way out like a TOUGHBOOK. Alienware owners think GPS stands for Game Play Status,lol.

 

I've got a Engenius 8602+S arriving this week so I'll be taking off the back/bottom pan of my CF-29 Mk5 for the first time. Just as wise preventive maintenance, should I replace the thermal pads with some of the 1.5mm ones mentioned in this thread before resealing the back/bottom?

 

FWIW. I had cpu thermometer and scared myself to death - temps regularly in the 80s and 90s.
Changed to notebook hardware control and things were down to 70s and 80s
Changed cooling pads and down a couple of degrees
Changed wlan card for Atheros and now running in the 40 - 70 range

Just a thought, I noticed on mine that the seal around the edge of the frame where the base meets was a little ragged and would have prevented an accurate seat thereby preventing the base from doing it's job. You might check

 

It arrived today, any recommendations on replacing the thermal pads while I'm inside swapping the WiFi cards?

 

earlier someone did thermal pads in the heatpipe area where it was mated to the bottom plate and removed the end lock downs and did the underside with the fujipoly type material heat pad. I've done this on several laptops and the temps usually stay mid 40;s to mid 50's. this seems to help with keeping things cooler. the wifi cards is a good one. I checked one out the other day from the opposite side of brick house to garage and pulled in a strong signal and not loose connection. worth the investment. the grey pads that are oem are really probably the best but noone knows the specs on what amount of watts it pulls off, fujipoly 6W per whatever vs maybe 11 per with the grey material. really wish someone knew this number. welcome to the members of the home for toughbook lovers. it is an addiction.....Driller

 

Thanks Driller. I know what you mean about "addiction" -- a couple of weeks ago I got my first one and now it's on to number 2

 

I found some possible sources for the magic Fujipoly. I posted this in a PM to someone and figured I would share with the group. You will have to do some work as it is not listed as a fleabay buy it now option or drop it in the cart amazoon.
I have never contacted these companies. They are just listed as USA distributors for Fujipoly. What follows is the cut and paste from the PM.

Here is a listing of USA distributors for Fujipoly.
Distributors for Fujipoly-America

I don't know if they will sell in small quantities or to Joe Q. Public. It may be $1.00 a sq foot or it may be $500.00 a sq inch. I have no clue. I am kinda curious though.
I never really tried to contact them as I was given what I needed. It wasn't listed directly on those web sites so I stopped. I didn't want to blow smoke since I knew I wasn't going to make a purchase.

 

My suggestion is most of the member here has CF-28 carcasses, right? Don't you know that the thermal pad on cf-28 is the best. It is not breakable when squ..se between the heatsink and gpu or cpu. Its a towel..te type thermal pad. Just cut it a bit bigger on the suface of cpu and gpu and If your not satisfied with it thickness, make it two layer. Thry it and you will see the difference. FYI.


ohlip