Toughbooks, Ground Stations, FPV, and other things RC!

So over the past couple years, I have been slowly getting back into one of my favorite hobbies of old. Radio Controlled. I tend to gravitate towards controversy, so of course drones fascinate me! And the whole aspect of every little control board can be hooked up to a computer and fiddled with should keep me occupied for months.

But my favorite part is just how much stuff is FULLY DIY and not available except if you make it yourself. And it seems I am not the only one this appeals to in this forum! I have spotted the dragon posting up in some of the rc forums. Pretty sure that is him, that humor of his is a bit unique!

Toughbooks seem to be the perfect fit for this hobby too. My Macbook is durable enough, but it RARELY sees the happy work space of my garage. Most of the time I have a Toughbook sitting on my workbench. Sometimes two, and even three scattered about.

Currently I have several projects in the works involving my Toughbooks. Mainly, I am using my CF-30 for this. The CF-19 is loaded up with all sorts of work/automotive related goodies. And much of the time just lives on top of my toolbox at work. The CF-T7 doesn't get used for much these days... I really need to sit down and compare specs with that and the CF-30.

The biggest project so far has been my flight simulator! I have Realflight 7.5 running on the CF-30, using a Turnigy 9XR Pro controller, a Chinese simulator dongle, and playing (sometimes) on my 115" movie projection screen setup. Lets just say it is epic, and a bit mind bending!!!

Problems? Well sure, I suspect it is an underpowered computer mostly. Sometimes I get "static" and flickers across the whole screen. Usually a full reboot solves this. Once it is running fine, no issues it seems until I go into a hibernate or sleep mode. Then sometimes I am okay, sometimes not. Haven't played with it enough to figure out if anything else causes this, or what is going on to begin with.

Heck, I could consider it FPV flying simulation realism added, for free.... I want to explore making this work better, but suspect the end solution might have to be a faster more capable laptop. And my first choice for this would be another Toughbook!

Oddity, it seems to require LESS processing effort when outputting to my projector. I have yet to see the flickers and static on my big screen. WTF? Odd. Anyways...

Currently, I am building a ground station. Well a couple actually. I would like to incorporate or use the CF-T7 with my larger one. If I could get it to run RF7.5 smoothly enough, that would make for a very interesting idea.

I would like to be able to display FPV view, telemetry data, and a map overlay onto the Toughbook. Unsure how to go about that yet. Seems a live view will have too much latency for any serious FPV flying.

I did start off with a FlySky Telem module and receiver. Building a ZMR250 racer and using the CC3D Flight Controller. I should have gotten the Revolutions board... But then again space on the ZMR250 is tight and if I go the direction of "partial" autonomous camera platform, I think I will need a 500 frame anyways. Still, I really want to get "hands off stabilization" on the 250 platform. I really like the fact that I can dial these down in the programming, and crank it up as my skill set increases.

SOOOO why this thread? Well I would LOVE to hear how, why, and what projects you guys have cooking along these lines!!! And I haven't decided what RC based forum to subscribe to yet. Kinda thinking it will be the Flight Test ones, but doubt I will get away with adding just one new forum to my already long list of internet haunts...

And if anyone has ideas about what I posted above, let me know what info and specs I should post up! Also any specific recommendations on "inexpensive" yet fast Toughbooks that would run the flight simulation software better? A quick look has some CF-C1 models coming in super cheap, but might go out of a comfortable range once missing parts are added on...

This looks promising! Need to study up a bit and see if it would give me any advantage over what I already have available though...

Well off to the local hobby shop for supplies!

 

It's been about 4 years since I was playing around with RC's as in the 4x4 type. The only problem that I had was is where I live. The nearest RC shop was 2 hours away. It's not a cheap hobby but it's a lot of fun for sure.

 

I have looked myself and thought about a quad copper hooked to a CF-19. I already have lots of the little stuff I need like the joystick and a pair of video glasses to hook to the CF-19's VGA out so it would be like you are looking out of the drone's cockpit.

That should be the dragon, last time I talked to him on the phone he was doing good and he mentioned he was reading up on a lot of RC stuff.

A friend of mine on the rigs has a nice plane he built with parts from the diydrones site. We could be on the rig in saudi and fly his plane in Arkansas if we wanted too.

A lot of projectors are "lower resolution" so that may be why it seems to work better on it. What Mk of CF-30 are you running? I may be able to tell you a few graphic mods.

Back in the 90's I had a regular RC gas powered plane. I don't have it anymore but still have two engines. I do still have a nice sized RC helicopter but haven't fixed it from the last time I crashed. At least it's a model you can get parts for.

 

"Oddity, it seems to require LESS processing effort when outputting to my projector. I have yet to see the flickers and static on my big screen. WTF? Odd. Anyways..."

it might just be that by using the processing in the projector that you are "freeing up" cpu cycles and ram that normally would go towards running the lcd .

for reliable/decent rendering one does need some crunching power .
part of the battle is won by using a decent video card that has it's own processors and ram instead of *stealing* these from the comp .
there is no substitute for processor speed and number of cores (well , an octa-core is a bit silly and very expensive) .
however ... the software needs to be able to utilize "multi-threading" for things to really work well .

as far as the '30 goes ... mine is pushed pretty hard just running netflix and i turn off the AV/AM when i watch .

 

Grr macbook is in the garage, since darn Toughbook keeps crappin on Internet Exploder tonight. Each time well over halfway through writing this. Fortunately, NBR managed to keep much of what I wrote. But any who...

Yeah, ESPECIALLY if you go to the local hobby shop. Today set me back $50 for some minor hardware, connectors, glue, and a replacement Inductrix frame. That was the only part that was cheaper than eBay prices though. These days, if you don't need the hands on assistance, or if your just broke, eBay, and Banggood seem to be the best resources. And if your not in a hurry, BIG savings on anything out of Asia/China. If I had bought everything local, then I would be easily $700-1000 into this. Haven't wanted to add things up, but I am sure I am easily under $300 right now scouring eBay for deals.

So as long as you get mail...

Oh, and on eBay, you have OPTIONS! I am not limited to the 3-5 brands or items carried by the local hobby shops, I have dozens to hundreds to choose from!!!

This is exactly what I am going for. More info on these glasses, pictures? And any ideas on getting the video INTO the Toughbook to begin with?

I have the Real Capture 2.0 USB dongle, but seems latency on that will be a problem. And the software included with it is beyond junk. So ANY ideas on the best way to utilize the Toughbook architecture and get quick video feed into it, would be SUPER COOL!!!

Umm lets clarify lol... I am finding him on not only multiple forums, but he seems to be a primary contributor to the whole development process of the Turnigy 9XR radio, has multiple DIYs up, and even his own blog. And it appears some sponsors too. So yeah I would imagine he does some "reading up" LOL! Now I just need to figure out what one he frequents the most... (mr dragon if you read this, SPEAK UP!)

That plane sounds SERIOUSLY cool!

This was my thought on it too (and the rest of what you posted also)! If I could build a mini ITX type computer with enough processing power and a stripped down OS... And especially if I could make this an internal part to my ground station, it would be worth considering something other than a Toughbook.

I haven't looked closely enough at these little guys in the past few years to have any idea about cost and processing power available. But this IS a Toughbook forum, so lets run with that idea for the time!

Okay my currently anger inducing CF-30 that made me go grab my NICE AND FAST Macbook (yep rub it in you little -=bleep=-) is a CF-30K3PAXAM. Really I do love that little guy, just maybe not tonight! LOL!

My CF-T7 is CF-T7BWATZAM. Both were Vista machines, and now upgraded to W7. I would go back to to Vista on the CF-T7 for extra processing power, if it would help. Or even make the move to Linux on it if I can find enough software support. But I suspect installing RealFlight in linux would be close to, or beyond, impossible.

But if I am to do anything "extensive" to make this work well, then the CF-T7 would be the preferred one to use. It currently just collects dust. Plus is smaller and lighter...

If I buy another Toughbook, or build an ITX for this, I have a small budget. Maybe $200? The ITX might be easier to spend a little more on since I can piecemeal it, and the case will be my already existing ground station setup.

Okay enough of my boring prattle, LOL! Anyone want to post up some pictures?! Ador, I would LOVE to see a shot of your goodies you have collected! In the meantime, I have a quad to go build. And apparently need to make a build thread for it somewhere. I simply have too many questions on it to DARE to power it up before I get some direct answers...

 

I have the glasses with me but will have to wait till I get on the rig to do it. I am in the helicopter waiting room waiting to fly out to the rig. How much OS tweaking have you done on your cf-30k? It may be bogged down. Go see how many processes you have running on it. We can disable a lot of stuff and get you back to the basics with it. The 4500 graphics onboard is dependent on the ram you have. Make sure the ram speed is the quickest supported. Also you can mod your own or use a modded video driver for more performance. You could look It to a cf-74 mk4 but that would only bring the cpu up from 1.6 to 2.4 the rest of the hardware would be pretty much the same. The biggest speed boost would be from a cf-52 with ati. The dedicated gpu would take the strain off of the cpu for the graphics. On a mitx build I have done three already and have 4 more to go together in the shed. One cpu/gpu/motherboard combo is under 100 bucks and can play skyrim on a medium setting with out problems. It uses a 20 dollar motherboard and 10 dollar cpu that takes ddr2 laptop ram and socket m core duo or core 2 duo.
If you want to do some extreme tweaking on the T7 we can but get ready to say good bye to Internet explorer.

 

I use also my CF52MK4 for my Qanum Nova Quadcopter with APM http://ardupilot.com/ . This laptop is powerfull enough because it has a discrete graphic card.. For the FPV u also can use ur mobile phone with some card bord like chassis. I have this https://www.durovis.com/ with an old Samsung Galaxy S4 for 3D-Gaming and FPV (It is like Oculus Rift for poor ). If u want to see the window of ur laptop in the display of the mobile try TrinusVR http://trinusvr.com/ via USB cable.

 

i believe that running a TB with a dedicated gpu and the fastest processor multicore cpu is a good workable idea .
however , one is limited on the ram side by the fastest ram speed supported (FSB speed/ratio) ...
i do not know if the TB that would be available has an "unlocked" MB , of course one would also have to have a cpu that is *unlocked* as well .

rollin' yer own semi-dedicated machine is a very good idea (in my opinion) .
while the idea of using a TB is nice aesthetically ... practicality and workability are the real issues that truly matter .
it should be easy enough to determine if a (say the '52 MK4) will be able to "keep up" by running a cpu/gpu intensive video program along with the controller software .
as was mentioned elsewhere , there will be rf linked video (possibly dual links or other method for stereo video) .
this will have to be as glitch free and "real time" as possible .
it should be possible to dummy up the cpu load by running two individual rf video link programs ... this will give processing headroom .
the "flight control" link/program will require some processor time/power but not near that of the video side .

the power supply of/for the home-built comp is a point of interest .
one could use the "two step" method (12 --->110 ---> comp swmps) ... but this is inefficient ...
one would be better served by check for the availability of a 12 or 24 volt dc input based swmps .
24 volts would be better ... more efficient ... and as long as one is building , 24 volts is no big deal ...
make up the battery and charging circuit ... you can use pre-fab solutions here .

just a few thoughts on the matter over my first cup of coffee .

ps... i am with a couple of others here ... loose internet exploder and go with FF .

 

something i forgot to mention ...
the stock '52 screen is rather dim for outside use .
it would have to be retrofitted with led backlighting .
this is where a machine like the '30 is a plus ... except for questionable crunch power .

 

U are correct. Luckily mine CF-52 has LED backlight

 

How about a CF-C1? Cheap and fast with the core i5,led screen and a ssd.

 

with the resistive or capacitive touch screen ?
i would think that resistive would be better ... can be used with gloves on .
it is a good choice (personally speaking) ... did that one come with a cpu that could be swapped out ?
only two gigs of ram (don't know if this is a MB , cpu or software issue) ...
without a dedicated graphics card , it is going to leave the ram and crunch power a bit on the lee side .
the only true way to know would be to try one out .

ps ...
notice how i avoided any commentary about "cheap and fast" ?

 

Wow lots and lots of ideas, and questions and goodies to research! I think I will work backwards, or something like that. The CF-C1 was defiantly one that hit my watch list as an interesting, and CHEAP idea! Tweaking what I already have is still my favorite option. The CF-T7 can be stripped and tweaked to the ninth degree. Pulling Internet Exploder out should be fine.

The CF-30 is barely tweaked. About the only thing messed with is the login screen... The rest is barely much more than what was required to make the Panasonic drivers all working. Still, it does have some software on it I would mostly prefer to leave alone.

I need to look up that software!!! The CF-52 sounds like an almost perfect choice. But, it still needs to be modded for LED backlighting???

Soooo, I have a couple different ways I am currently using my Toughbook(s). First is much of the equipment requires configuration using a computer. For this, ANY old thing would likely work fine. Then, I am using my CF-30 with the flight simulation software. A coworker who is an accomplished (rc) helicopter and plane pilot said it just felt "off." I have left it setup on my toolbox for the past couple days, and so there has been plenty of opportunity to try it out.

From my perspective, it works really well. But I am far from an expert judge of how it should feel, all I can go off is looks and function. That works well enough, but I do think that it could be fiddled to be better. I would go this route on the CF-30, but stopping before it becomes a dedicated flight simulator machine. Probably dumping Internet Exploder for FF wouldn't happen. Most of my time on the laptop is spent researching this and that, online.

Hacking hardware I am much better than average, but tweaking windows, ugh not so much. If there was a software like "Turbo Your PC" that actually worked, safely, I would even pay for it. But I suspect most of these optimization softwares are scams and viruses and not truly fixing anything. Anyways I digress. I would love to approach optimizing the CF-30 a bit, and or the CF-T7 a LOT. The CF-T7 could stay plugged into the theater system in fact.

Simulator aside for the moment, lets go back to the whole FPV aspect. Lets talk about hardware and the setup I am already building. I have two aluminum cases, a small one and a medium one. I have scavenged two 7" screens and a 15" screen. I have an LCD controller on the way for one of the 7" screens. I think it will work with either. I don't think it will work with the 15" screen though. Once that is sorted, I will order a couple more.

Not sure if I could fit a MITX into the small case and have room left for the rest of the FPV gear. The small case will only fit one 7" screen in the lid. Some room around it, so could go a little bit bigger if needed. If I could fit the gear and an ITX into the small case capable enough to run the simulator, would be SICK item to leave sitting on my toolbox at work. Yeah crazy mechanics, we are very good at occupying ourselves when there are no cars to work on... Seems like most of the 5 gallon buckets around the shop, have helipads drawn on them.

Would LOVE to fit these screens with LED backlighting to help with daylight view ability. Need to study up on that idea... But I can also use a hood/shield easily enough.

Glasses, the quarnum ones, poor man's oculus rift ghetto stylz, might be an option. I also found some interesting single "monocle" types that could be made into a pair and still stay under $100 or so. Not sure if I will even want to go this direction yet. And honestly if I do, the Fatshark ones might be the best choice for simplicity, quality, and function. In a few months, I could likely justify that expense.

But a question that still feels unanswered to me, how do I get the FPV video feed into the Toughbook, or do I even bother? The hardware solution is easy to me. Video receiver, rca plugs going to the home-brew monitor built into my case. Bam done. Power it up with some 12v battery contraption, whatever.

But getting the actual fpv video feed INTO a laptop, is a mystery. Easy to send the flight simulator out into my ground station, -=cough=- monitor. Yeah I have one of the USB Video Capture devices. But (likely) too much latency to use to make the Toughbook my main monitor.

I think once I headed into the direction of making monitors to integrate with the FPV rig, I went mostly past this question. So how is the laptop incorporated into a ground station then? I really need to study up on onirakkiss's suggestions to see what that setup is all about.

Well I mostly finished the hardware portion of my ZMR250 quadcopter build last night. I still need to do LOTS of configuring, programming, and well maybe learn to fly a little better before my first flight. The only piece I am waiting for are a couple 700TVL Sony cameras (bought a spare, next copter build maybe?). I have a rubber ducky antenna on a 600mw transmitter. May need upgrading, but likely good enough as I am learning and still in close. I did not get a receiver yet, still trying to decide between cheap, and diversity. Leaning towards cheap, and upgrading later. Can still use it with the smaller ground station anyways. I have to sort out the link between the RC receiver and flight controller. Running the CC3D board for now.

I do not currently have GPS on the quadcopter. So not sure having a laptop added in will accomplish anything useful right now, beyond flight simulation. With the CC3D flight controller, all GPS would give me is coordinates anyways. Almost out of room on the ZMR250 platform to add more... Might need to build a 500 frame if I am going to use it for more of a photography platform with autonomous flying etc...

Anyways this conversation is VERY interesting and giving me more ideas to go look into and research!

 

"still trying to decide between cheap, and diversity"

(first) a little qualification here ...
i am/was a broadcast engineer and maaany moon ago i also worked pro audio for concerts .
in a word "diversity" is your friend .
a *real* diversity system will curb your weekly trip to "famous dave's" but is worth investing in .
yep ... lag time in processing could give problems ... agl/airspeed= disaster coefficient .
a dropout of a couple of seconds promotes auguring into the ground or *something* else .

if you go the '52 route the first thing (etched in stone) is to convert to led backlighting .

getting the video signal into the comp can be accomplished by a couple of different methods .
you could use one (or two) of those video to usb devices but avoid the cheap ones .
if this were in a dedicated "box" , you could use a "video sampling card" ...
one might be tempted to use one of those cheap "surveillance" boards that handle two or more cams but this is not the way to go ... get one or two real boards , plug them into a couple of pci slots on the MB .
and that reminds me ... an mtx or other mini MB will need to have a few slots to take care of the hardware .

i am not too clear on which way you really want to go with this project ... a glorified laptop or a "roll yer own" comp approach .

 

CF-C1 is a good choice. i5 and LED backlight. 14" widescreen. CF-C1 has a rotating screen. It has 2 batteries also. Resistive touchscreen. I am collecting parts to rebuild one right now.

CF-52 has 15" wide screen. ALL of the discrete graphics models have CCFL backlights. The models without discrete graphics have LED backlights starting with mk3's. The CF-52 with discrete graphics will cost more. No models have touchscreen unless you mos one in.

Neither model has a replaceable CPU.

I have a Hp Expresscard TV tuner card (HP Part #: 438587) that has composite and s cable inputs. I use it for an industrial style camera setup for macro PCB work.
Pretty sure it is a rebranded Hauppauge HVR-1500.

 

i "obtained" a hauppauge video capture/d-tuner card from an defunct HP box ...
i tried to get the software for it ... hauppauge wanted about 85 bucks for it .
(it has to be registered to be activated)
this might be something to consider when digging through the bonepile .

oh yeah ... what OS is on your 'T7 ?

 

There are many free soft ware options that work with the Hp card.
I'll bet there is a package on the Hp support site.

 

hmmm ... not to derail this thread ...
i'll post in conversations .

 

Oh, I was asked and don't think I clearly answered what OS I am running. All of my Toughbooks are running W7.

Pulled trigger too soon then... But not sure any of my choices were qualifying for *real* diversity anyways. I grabbed one of these. The *real* diversity systems I know of for this application start off at $100, and go up... I was looking at the upgraded version of the above receiver here.

But with a 600mW transmitter and receiver, I think even the single antenna setup (especially with upgraded antennas) will be okay for short range and testing my small rig. I might actually decide I want/need one of the better systems anyways. And here is the selection available from HobbyKing. I have already had a bad experience ordering from them, so not sure I ever will. but that is some of what is out there anyways.

I am not too sure yet. Not sure anything better is really needed even.... More on this in a moment though... But if the Toughbooks can't handle it, then I am leaning towards building an ITX setup. IF that is I can build it powerfull enough, cheap enough, and small enough to fit inside the groundstation case. If so, it becomes a very interesting path to go down.

Awesome ideas on the boards, I think I want one of those regardless of if needed/used for this project or not!

Alright AWESOME suggestions and help in chat on mods and tweaks!!! In fact I am likely needing to implement them on this CF-30 too. It is not liking the internet lately...

Well after studying up a lot more, but still nowhere near enough that I feel like I fully understand it... It does not seem most, or any, of these setups ARE pushing video into the laptop/computer. The groundstation receiver sends video directly into monitor. Any OSD (on screen display) telemetry data is overlaid directly into the video feed on the quadcopter side of the system. With telemetry enabled receivers and transmitters on the RC control side of things, the data is sent directly to the radio. With mods, that can be sent INTO the transmitter, or a mini telemetry screen attached to transmitter. Into is better since I can then setup alarms for battery voltage and the like.

Where I am still unclear on, is how to get telemetry data into the groundstation.... With GPS on board the 'copter, I can use this data and track in realtime the location on Open Piolot's GCS (ground control station) are. The telemetry module in the transmitter (RC controller) has a serial output of some sort. I suspect I can Bluetooth connect this stream into the laptop.

There is another radio link setup called OPLink that uses a different radio transmission band and not only sends long range telemetry data, but also RC Controls. It hooks right up to either laptop, or Transmitter. Problem is, video is still transmitted on the 5.8Ghz band, and that is shorter range.

I want to get up to full automonus flying for photography purposes in time, but that will take a bigger bird in the sky also. For now my main focus is learning to fly these things well, and figuring out the insane amount of options avalible to do so. And getting all the systems setup, configured, and working together.

Like right now... I have a Turnigy 9XR-Pro transmitter. The radio "module" is separate. You buy that and a receiver. I got FrSky telemetry module and receiver. And spent hours last night trying to bind my transmitter to the receiver in the quad. Seems even with all my carefull digging, I bought the wrong module... I was ready for a test hover last night, had I got things bound. Now I am at least a few days out for a new module.

Alright well off into the laboratory/cave. I got my LCD controller today so I want to see something working at least!

 

"In fact I am likely needing to implement them on this CF-30 too. It is not liking the internet lately..."
there should be no real problems switching over to FF ... it is sort of like ditching an old gf for a new one (and not just her sister either) .
it may handle differently for certain things and the *fine points* , but it (they) are pretty much all the same .
(think : the old one's favorite color may have been blue while the new one likes red)
i started using FF back on version 3 along with IE ... by the time that version 4.5 was released , IE went out the window ... i removed all IE shortcuts from the menus and desk top .
there is an upside to switching ... the sheer number of "add-ons and extensions" that are available .
i run FF with something to restore the old way of the skinning (i do not like that new look that all three outfits jumped on) ...
i have cloned FF to all of my "sub machines" from my "main machine" .

"Seems even with all my careful digging, I bought the wrong module..."
heh ... been there , done that ... with something bigger (the chief engineer was not amused ... man , you talk about a tongue lashing !) .
this is just a suggestion ...
perhaps you could start a conversation about some of the other stuff not directly related to the toughbooks themselves .
(myself and some of the others here (not meaning to speak for them) would be willing to help)
this will help to keep this thread uncluttered and make it easier to follow .
the overall scope of this topic has expanded .

 

You can run that video output from the RC832 to anything that has composite video inputs.

An old VCR connected to a TV would work.
Most of the setups use a cheap monitor only.

A Toughbook will work fine if you have a PCMCIA or Expresscard that has video input. Such as the one I posted about previously.
Here is a photo of a Boscam with the wiring. Notice the red / white and yellow connectors?
Plug those connectors into the same color connectors coming out of the PCMCIA/Expresscard video card and Bob's your uncle.
The Toughbook will become the monitor. With the proper program, you could do a video capture of everything that appears on the screen.

 

i thought of an argument for using a '52 (besides the already know advantages) ... the screen ratio
the '30 has a 4x3 ratio and the '52 has a 16x9 ratio .
most cameras today use the latter format (or similar) and the human eye also uses this type of *format* .
the video feed(s) will then match what they are being used on without cropping .

 

AS far as the Toughbook being powerful enough, What is the resolution of the camera itself?

 

Reposting this as thee is SO MUCH GOOD information crammed to this!!!! I wish I could afford the APM/3dr system, WAY outta my price range. But once I start going mainly in the direction of a photography platform, it is possibly the only thing that makes sense!!! I have been eyballing the Zeiss VR-One... I am not sure my phone is up to par though...

Haha I kinda intended this to be a sorta random catch all thread for the whole subject of RC... I was mostly hoping to open up discussion, get ideas kicking around, and learn from you guys! So far, it is going swimmingly! But, I will take up that offer on a couple specific and detailed questions I suspect you guys could better answer than the "dedicated" rc crowd. Is it okay to still dump them here in the Toughbook/Panasonic section? If I somehow include the necessary Toughbook content? LOL... I do have a couple interesting issues I am working on related to this project...

This is a VERY GOOD POINT! I was fighting with this issue last night when I hooked up my new (in progress) FPV ground station to the CF-30. Now I found I could change the screen rations separately if I was not cloning or mirroring, but extending the desktop. Worked well after that and some tweaks in the LCD controller menus.

Looking around on eBay and the Hauppich/HP Expresscard Tuner setup can be gotten CHEAPLY, and much of the time with the software included and still under $20!!! Need to try and figure out what version will stick out none, or the least anyways. I think I will implement this into my hardware solutions pile of goodies! I simply hadn't done the right search to come across this little gem!

And since all the gear in an FPV setup predominantly uses the RCA type plugs and VGA I/O, this will make for a simple recording solution. I may still go for an easily added inline DVR-SD recorder. Small and cheap. But I suspect most of the time a Toughbook will be added into the mix.

Cameras: I have two of these on the way. They are 700TVL (whatever that means). I also might grab an 800TVL camera here Stateside.

Alright dozing off staring at computer screens and monitors...

 

It's good to keep this thread going. It is a detailed discussion about using a Toughbook in different ways.
I don't do R/C but the thread is informative and welcome break from the usual questions like "How do I install Windows 14 on a CF-29"

 

"welcome break from the usual questions like "How do I install Windows 14 on a CF-29"
with a crowbar and a #2 ball-peen hammer ?


yep ... there are parts of this thread , that because of the nature of the beast , that would be better served if treated separately ...
at least in my opinion .
for example , a discourse on how to determine which connector is what on a stereo mini -to- RCA LRV cord , is kind of a side issue .

the camera stuff :
http://www.security-camera-warehouse.com/knowledge-base/comparing-420-480-600-700-tv-lines-php/
bottom line : 700 lines just barely gets you into the better quality of line-scan cameras ... and i seriously doubt the quality of these .
the industry has pretty much gone the HD route ...
as the site suggests , the lower resolution cameras are mostly (now) relegated to uses that are "non-critical" .
for example , many years ago in a town where i lived a bank was robbed , the thief got away on a 10 speed (i shi& you not) .
the detectives came to me with the tape and their VCR : "can you make this tape work on our machine ?" .
i tore the top off of their machine and within 5 minutes i had an answer : "no" .
i had to use my sony high-dollar bench machine and adjust the tape path wrap around the head and then adjust the cross-point switch timing (a "head" actually consists of 2 individual true heads 180 degrees out) .
after getting a stable picture for them (after an hour) , they came back and we looked through the tape .
you guessed it ... there were pictures of the perpetrator but they were such poor quality that you could not tell bonnie from clyde .

there is a trade-off between quality of picture and processing time .
more "lines" equals more data and this requires cpu crunch .
all thing must be considered as they all add up .

 

Alright, first I am now on FireFox!!! I tried to post a response to this twice now, and had IE die on me and loose the response. But get this, just firing up on FF for the first time right now, and oddly most of my last response is already here! I haven't done ANY tweaking to FF yet, but in this one paragraph alone realized that most of my issues with typing are NOT the keyboard like I thought, but were IE. Not a SINGLE missed keystroke. I wonder what had got into IE to make it start getting so buggy? Anyways....

CWB32, your last comment made me do a good bit of searching/hunting/googling and wondering just WHY these are the cameras being used. I had based my choice off of what was being included in the kits being sold. Well digging around again was interesting. There basically are few "true HD" cameras being sold for FPV usage. Sure, towards the higher end of things, a couple start showing up that almost qualify. But they are very few and far between. A Go-Pro can be hacked for streaming FPV, but for many reasons it is not considered ideal. First for me being COST! I got two of those little cameras for $20. I don't like the way video looks on Go-Pro, and returned the one I had several years ago. $300 for a camera on a quad VERY likely to get crashed, is a bad investment. Then here is weight, Go-Pro is HUGE in weight and space requirements.

So, I found this video to be super interesting. Charpu is considered to be one of the best, if not the best, FPV/quadcopter pilots in the world. He states two resons these cameras are used (other than cost, size, and weight).

1) They have VERY fast aperture/light adjustment. When flying from dark to light space, instant response.

2) Analog video transmission. Transmitting HD video on these small quads (for whatever reason) is problematic. I do not know why, or what exactly the issues and limitations are. But I am sure cost is the fist. AV transmitter and receiver would likely cost more, and need a larger weight and space footprint.

Now the first camera I saw that fit the HD requirements, barely, was actually a FatShark camera made by Immersion RC. These are the same guys making the very nice Fatshark FPV video glasses that you see in frequent use.

The "cheap" Fatshark glasses are $300! The ones that are HD, are $500!!!!!! I think just the camera was $60. This is not including a transmitter (absolute must) for the bird, or a receiver for the groundstation. Receiver is built into some (all maybe?) of the glasses though.

I can get more traction and usage spending even just $150-300 on a better Toughbook. Maybe in six months to a year when I can fly WELL, upgradign to a better video system will become a justifiable expense. Right now, I likely have less than the cost of the "cheap" Fatshark glasses into my total build.

Alright, well it is time to get some pictures posted up soon of my goodies built so far!

 

Microsoft got into IE to make it buggy.

 

Glad to see you made the switch. Now if you want to start tweaking you Firefox here are a few things you can do.

If you want to change the search engines click on the magnifying glass in the search bar and hit change search engine.

Right click to the left of the search bar and hit customize to change and re arrange the icons to how you want them to be.

Right click on the top bar of fire fox and you can then click on the words menu bar if you want the menu bar up there. That is where it says file,edit,view,history,bookmarks, tools,help then if you want a bookmark toolbar click it. Then the web pages you go to the most you can click and drag the tab to that bar to book mark. Or if you don't want the bar but want to save the link you want to click the star to the right of the search bar.

At the top click tools, add on's, then to the left side bar at the top go to get addon's. Then type in adblock plus and then add to fire fox and say bye bye to a lot of ad's

One thing I need to bring up is how firefox stores its passwords (if you save them) they are in plain text. But if you want you can have it where it has a pop up and requires a master password to see them. If you don't activate that anyone using your pc can get your passwords. Go to tools, options, security, saved login's to see what I mean. On that same page is the master password box. Clicking it allows you to set that up, a password for your password.

If you want to increase the size of you cache file for web pages you visit a lot to load quicker. tools, options, advanced, network, override automatic cache management. Clicking that allows you to set the size of your cache. It's 350mb by default you can make it 1024 MB or 1Gb.

That's enough to get you started. You can get stuff that block pop up added on, flash, etc. Even change the color or theme of your web browser if you want.

 

Wow...that is a awesome video. Now this is something that I could really get into

 

there is another addon ... or more precisely a program that puts firefox back to a GUI that most of us OFs are familiar with .
personally , i find it easier to manipulate ...
"classic theme restorer"
as was mentioned , there is an absolutely huge cornucopia of "stuff" written as an adjunct or addition to FF .
one addon that is very helpful (to me anyway) is "zoomfox" ... it allows you to enlarge a picture in a separate tab .

i did not realize that you needed "utility quality" video ... more of that "whatta ya gonna do with it" requirement .
i dunno ... that high res stuff is pretty good to have at times .
i reference the time when the pilot , crew chief and five of my fellow sergeants were flying NOE up a river and came around a bend in the river and flew about 80 MPH 50 feet over the top of many nude sunbathers .

 

BE CAREFUL! Once you go down that rabbit hole... And those are just the little FPV racer drones! I can't really gt into spending THOUSANDS on the professional "prebuilt" camera platforms. But when you realize that you can put FULL AUTOPILOT flight controllers on even a small 250mm sized "racer" drone... And then you go to a larger, say 500mm platform, and can then easily add a fully gimbal stabilized camera, and GPS, and full telemetry, and predefined flight patterns, and well yeah.... Oh, and you can do all of this within a much more reasonable amount. Haven't worked up prices for the "camera platform," but I am sure it will be well under $500. Camera of course not included.

It would be a while before I am comfortable sticking one of my "baby Leica" Panasonic Lumix cameras on a quad and flying it 10' off the ground, let alone 100'... But hey, if I could figure out one that could be had cheap, and easily hacked for remote control.... I will DEFINITELY be flying a Panasonic camera!!!

The payload capacity on these is incredible! My mini ZMR250 is supposedly even capable of flying a Go-Pro. It would look silly and oversized, but it can.

CWB32 I approve of this message!!! Unfortunately people are paranoid idiots and think these things are a major security and privacy invasion risk. But hey if I am going to get in trouble, might as well do it in HD right?!

Most of even the little racers are actually flying with two cameras. A FPV camera, and a "flight logger" camera recording in HD. For now, I just have the FPV camera ordered (slow boat from China lol).

 

This morning spent over 2 hours watching them videos. Best one was when the guy took his quad above the clouds but on the way back down the battery died so he switched to the backup battery...he needed a bigger backup...it crashed in the trees and he found it a week later.

Here it is..

 

man , i could imagine hitting one of those with the plane (that cessna 310) .
to the best of my knowledge :
no transponder
no radio
no navcom
no beacon
pretty small target to see .
did he even have the ability to check for traffic in the area ?

the guy is a moron as far as i am concerned ...
going through the clouds is something that is avoided if possible .
not to mention some of the other stuff .

 

(WTH? This is the third time now I have tried to post up an answer. FF is hanging up as I type, then crashing on the CF-30. I am having to resort to the Macbook. But hey, at least it is actually grabbing what I just wrote today. FF and the CF-30 won't... Anyways onto more important content, lol)

Well the idiot put disclaimers into his description about how bad of an idea it was and how he posted it to show why... Problem is I saw the video when it first came out, and it had no such in the description then. Yeah, looser.

Any flights above 400' we are required to log with the FAA. I do not know if this involves us filing a flightplan, or what the specifics are. So I simply try to fly below this envelope. Although I haven't flown enough lately for it to even be an issue... I suspect that with my new setup, I will have to take extra care to follow this.

EVERYTHING he did in that video was a big fail. starting off with flying high in a heavily populated area. Flying period in populated area like that is a bad idea, but then I have many a time flown small quads in my backyard. Good example though. I had a small quad runaway from me. Flew over my house and neighbors house landing in their front yard. It was a micro quad, so if it had hit something it couldn't have done any damage (I have even flown it into myself a time or three. The dog finally killed it grabbing it out of the air, so yeah it couldn't hurt anything.) But had this been a full sized quad, how would I explain to my neighbor if I had to retrieve it off his roof? Granted my neighbor is cool and would likely have laughed, but not at 2am when I was out there playing....

Unfortunately, people like him are the reason that the FAA has finally stepped in and started to regulate how we fly our model aircraft. Up until a few years ago the AMA had been able to protect us from the FAA and keep them out of our business. Problem has come about with all the long range radio systems (and that requires a separate consideration too...) and the fact that it is actually very easy to ply a multi rotor craft on autonomous flight. Or any model aircraft really.

There was a David Morrell book, Brotherhood of the Rose, written in 1983 where a model airplane packed with explosives is used to take down a difficult to breach target. Back then, the technology was expensive and the skill required to fly a model plane was hard earned. Not to mention, the buzzy, loud gas motors. Now for a few hundred dollars, the very same thing could be done with a multi rotor, and carrying a much bigger payload too... And almost zero skill required to fly it.

So I can see why so many regulations are being put into place when all is considered in the age of this new technologically advancing world. Most of the people coming into the hobby these days do not have an AMA membership, or likely even know what the AMA is. And even fewer have any credentials for flying.

Interestingly, the long range radio systems require special licensing to fly. Pretty sure I mentioned this somewhere above, but flying FPV supposedly also needs to meet the same requirements. You need a ham technicians license. And speaking of long range systems and Toughbooks... Here is the system I am interested in!



And speaking of Toughbooks and RC, it looks like that is a CF-30 he is using, can anyone ID it for sure?

Now what is interesting about the OPLink, is its flexibility. You can configure both the air and the base station in multiple ways. The air can send telemetry info, but it can also receive controller information, and even replace the RC Receiver! On the ground, you can use the base hooked up directly to your computer for a telemetry stream (including GPS coordinates for autonomous flying), or installed inside your transmitter. When installed in transmitter, you can hook up to PC via either USB, or bluetooth. Pretty trick stuff in that package!!! And cost? It is under $100!

 

have you update FF ?
i updated to 43 and it was loosing connectivity .
i re-installed an older version after backing up with mozbackup and installed 41 .

 

Yeah I JUST installed it, say last week... I will need to dig around and see what version it is.



I need this ground station!!! Although just the laptop would be good enough, and much more affordable....

Well my first ground station is finished! I need to verify that video receiver is working, but need camera and transmitter working in the "drone" first. My boss gave me a 19" monitor today, claimed it was broken. Had it operational in maybe 5 minutes... I think he didn't reboot the computer after connecting it. And I have a 15" screen also, plus options for cases. Including the ultimate case, a Pelican 1650! I would be a little reluctant to use that one, but I could fit EVERY thing into it...

And I have to admit, ever since I started down this road I have been eyballing that case... It would look oh so frickin sweet! Instead of just a ground station, it would be a whole flight station, hanger, and yeah lol!

Well I am procrastinating. I have lots of pictures I should post up, will definitely do so soon. But I really need to take a whack at getting the camera online! I need to program the Controller Transmitter, don't even have low voltage internal battery warnings set. Need to update the software in it even before that... Have to figure out what version to run so I can get my telemetry input from the FrSky gear. And the list goes on......

 

UPDATES!

First, camera system is online now! I was able to cheat and simply swap a wire over on the VTX connector. I don't like it for long term, but good enough to "boot" it all up!

The little 700tlv "HD" Camera seems to do well enough. Colors are washed out to almost looking like it is B&W, but also horrid florescent overhead lighting. I will try it outside tomorrow or Monday when I have it a little more correctly put together. And I am not sure if channel and frequency choices would come into play. Doubt it.... Whatever the case, more experimentation is needed.

I took everyone's advice on the camera too. I actually ordered (and already have) a proper Fat Shark HD camera! It is 720p. It also runs off of 5v, instead of the 12v my ZMR250 pdb (power distribution board) is wired for. My other hang up was not having a clean way to unplug/unpower the VTX (video transmitter). I need to do some finalization of wiring and the like, then I can play some more. But it was sure nice to see a transmitted image on my little homebuilt little ground station!!!

Okay lets go back to camera discussion about quality. I have been digging around and watching tons of videos and readign up everything I can. Here is the deal. I already mentioned the bits like how quickly these "security cameras" switch from dark to light, but the real reason is data bandwidth and latency.

For FPV racers, the higher the video quality transmission is, the greater the video transmission latency is. I think it was a latency of just 20ms that could cause a quad traveling 60mph (easily done too) to move 4', in that 20ms...

Now if one was using it as a slow(er) speed video or photography platform, that latency become less of an issue, and video transmission quality more important. BUT most of those systems, and even many of the "racer setups," rely on a second camera or another form of onboard storage. The Fat Shark has a built in SD card slot and I "think" transmits lesser quality than it records.

Not only that, but the nature of the video feed transmission itself is poor. With anything less than a perfect antenna tuned to that specific channel and frequancy, your going to get fuzzes, snow, and other artifacts constantly.

In fact one measure of a monitors worth in a ground station, is its reluctance to bluescreen on poor signal. We want to see snow for a while first.

Alrighty, well got some progress, now need to go work on my battery warnings and telemetry! And take pictures to post up of course.

 

how much is that ground station ?

"You need a ham technicians license."
can you find the source of this ?

some clarification only ...
as far as i know ...
yes , there are certain segments of the amateur radio spectrum allocations that are set aside for "long range control" .
there are different types and (very) specific uses .
these (among others) are remote control of repeaters and cross-band/remote transceiver operation .
this type of operation is strictly limited to those individuals holding amateur radio licenses of certain titles , rates and privileges .

there is a separate "entity" for the use of non-amateurs for licensed remote and/or radio transmission .
for example "DJs" were required to obtain what amounts to an "operators license" ...
this meant that the individual knew how to push buttons to take remote readings of transmitters , knew how to shut them down , etc .
the important thing to know is that this was for commercial broadcast ...
even though i held a broadcast engineering degree/certification and was a "ham" , i still had to apply for and hold a current broadcast "operators license" (aka : dj yellow card) ... as i was required and sometimes never knew when i would be required to "operate" the control from "the other side of the glass" .
even the dispatchers and policemen at the police departments (etc) had to have a "yellow card" ... later on the rules were changed so that a single license covered everyone in a police department , etc .
think of "business band" radio ... different deal/entity ... same requirements .
these were easy to get ... fill out a form answering simple questions about yourself and ensuring that you understood the rules and could perform the duties of the license .