Um... Wait... MIG Welder-Toughbook-Savings Dilemma

Okay,

This is a weird question for this forum... More likely a welding or financial forum... But I thought I'd ask because I truly value *some* of your opinions!

I just sold a few Toughbooks that I wasn't expecting and have a few extra bucks... I am torn with what to do with the money.

Here are the facts...

1. I *need/want/desire* a MIG welder for a potential invention that could save mankind a TON of money... But I have to build a prototype! It will provide, for all intents and purposes, free electricity as well as a few other handy things... But as I said... I must build a prototype. I can build a mock-up without one... But for the prototype... I need the MIG Welder.

2. ... Even more Toughbooks... More Toughbooks + More money, right? Well... Not exactly... It depends on which Toughbooks you have at what time!

3. Savings! This cannot be understated... Especially in THIS economy! What to do... What to do...

The MIG Welder I want will cost $700 delivered. Now this sounds like a ton... (And it is) But we are talking about Mankind aren't we?

So... What's your opinion?

Here's the rules... Just vote... To ask what my invention is, you must have a minimum of $1,000,000 USD ready to put in MY bank account to even discuss the invention! (And sign a non-disclosure agreement!) <OH... And the BEST part? I want the money BEFORE we sign!> It is not a pie-in-the-sky bunch of crapola like, "I know the secret of cold fusion!" It is a proven technology that just needs help and has been done in the past... But not the way I plan on using it. I know it can be done... I just need the funding and tools to do it!

So... No more to read here... Just vote!

EDIT - By the way... Cheap welders can be had for $200 and the most expensive are $4,000+

ALSO - I'd like the TOUGHBOOK ONLY crowd to vote on this... PLEASE... No DULL/Asus/IBM, etc. people.... (I don't know you... Unless you habe $1M to invest that is!)

 

Rick, what the HELL are you up to??? If you invent a device to product FREE electricity then you owe me some to power my server ... that is all I want!

BTW, How much money did you get?!?!?!?! Like $10,000+??

 

Stashing the money under your mattress would be better. Stuffing money in a bank now with their interest rates - doesn't even counter inflation.

 

No... Nothing close to $10k... Actually a little less than $1k. (Which is why I am asking the question! If I had $10k disposable... You wouldn't be voting as I would have the prototype!) But when I build a prototype.. I know a monied guy who has been down the path before. He's loaded.

 

I'd buy the welder. You can never have too many toys. (I've got two welders now )

Oh, and not sure what you were looking at, but I would go for a Hobart. Made in the same factory in Ohio as Miller, but with a grey box instead of blue. The only thing I saw that was made outside of the US was the gun, which was made in Canada (and is stamped Miller). I've got the Handler 210, and while it's not ultimate, it's everything I need.

My other welder is a Lincoln, but it's only 100 amp, so it's nothing to brag about. (Only reason I keep it is because it's 110v too).

 

Go with the welder. You can't do bodywork with a toughbook.

 

Go with the welder. If you can buy it without the IG regulator I've got plenty and you are welcome to one. Save a few bucks!
CAP

 

Get the least expensive welder that will do a good job on the prototype. The energy companies will offer you tons of money for your invention, then you can get one with all the bells...

 

Hey TB,
I once tried to patent an idea that I had. After paying then about 560 euros for the research I found that some guy had already patented the idea almost 20 years before. To cut a long story short 560 euros in beer is a lot of headaches and so was knowing that some guy patented the idea before me.Me and my mates would have had more fun with the beer.
cheers
strawman

 

Strawman.... I know... I've had several ideas that I found were already patented... But then I had 4-5 that I sat on for 5-6 years only to see someone with a little gumption get the patent and make millions... So... It's MY turn now.

I was looking at THIS welder...

Though eventually I'd also like to get a stick welder. I learned on a huge Lincoln welder/generator when I did signwork 20 years ago. I was never a pro at it... But then I never had any signs fall down because of a bad weld either... While other companies did!

 

Hey Tb,
I will go from the 140 as being the amps. I have a 160 or 170 amp mig. Even a one handed pirate can weld with those things. I not a welder myself but have never had a weld fail. Looks sweet though, nice for a small workshop. I could be jealous. Screw anouther toughbook buy the welder then you can weld yourself shelfs for your toughies. lol
cheers
strawman

 

Strawman.... I know... I've had several ideas that I found were already patented... But then I had 4-5 that I sat on for 5-6 years only to see someone with a little gumption get the patent and make millions... So... It's MY turn now.

I was looking at THIS welder...

Though eventually I'd also like to get a stick welder. I learned on a huge Lincold welder/generator when I did signwork 20 years ago. I was never a pro at it... But then I never had any signs fall down because of a bad weld either... While other companies did!

 

Your not giving us much info to go with do help on choosing the correct model ,but I will just take it for granted that you will be working with steel
I have had a few, the last being a Miller 225 amp as well as an esab 200 amp
Both were about $1600 years ago
Its quite easy to do a good job with the model that you have in mind
The mig wirefeed is quite an easy welder to use
The smaller wire sizes like 023 do a precision job if deep penetration is not needed
It all depends on the thickness of the steel you are welding

For really fine fussy work a tig welder works the best, but they are more expensive and take a lot longer to do the same job

Alex

 

I'll recommend the seller of that welder (I bought my Hobart from them).

You need 110v or can you swing 220v? If you are doing it on 110, you can get the Hobart on a cart (from the same seller) for $200 less, and if you are doing 230v, you can get a 187 amp Hobart for the same price.

Just want to throw it out there, since it is a damn fine welder. Lincolns are nice and all, but they have a brand name markup on them (same as Miller).

 

I'd like to be at 120V just so it is portable. I need to be able to weld fine, thin metals as well as up to 1/8" to 3/16" plate steel. Most of what I need deals with high heat but not great pressures... So it just needs to stay in place. I've been researching off and on for a few months and I feel this is the correct type I need... This particular model also seems to have rave reviews.

Feedback?

 

Looks good then
Extra costs if you have to put in a welder 220v plug and breaker


Alex

 

Dewed -

Go for the welder.

But... And I hate to say this, but... go look at Harbor Freight first. Look at the CHEAPEST or SECOND CHEAPEST MIG welder they have that runs on 220V; it usually costs around $200-$250 on sale. They are NOT nearly as good as a Lincoln - don't get me wrong; but really, the Linc 140 is NOT as good as a REAL Lincoln EITHER; I've used it.

I have the Chicago Electric 94164; I caught it on sale and got it together with regulator & tank (yes, add-ons) for a hair under $300.

I've worked with everything from Lincoln to Hobart to ESAB (My personal favorite - smoothest MIG I Ever used - I liked it so much I built a generator on my truck instead of giving it up for a gas-powered Miller) and YES... the 94614 is by NO MEANS a professional duty welder. But neither is the Linc 140, and if you don't ALREADY own a BIG MIG, you don't weld enough to NEED professional duty; and that Lincoln sure isn't worth the difference in price.

I used to weld for a living - I know a thing or two about it; and for the half dozen times a year I use a welder NOW, that Harbor freight Special is MORE than enough. Save the difference for a cheap chopsaw and torches (it won't get you tanks I'm afraid unless you buy the tiny luggable set) or even just materials - it doesn't take long to eat up $400 in steel.

Otherwise, if you really feel the need for name brand, hold onto your money and shop the swap sheets; I've bought more than a few used MillerMatics selling around that price range, if you find someone hurting for cash or hit a pawn shop on a slow day.

mnem
I love the smell of slag & cO2 in the morning; it smells like VICTORY...

 

How the hell is everyone on here so damn smart?!?!?! Whoda thought that the genius's that run Toughbooks also know like EVERYTHING about welders and welding too!! GAH!

 

mnem
I love the smell of slag & cO2 in the morning; it smells like VICTORY...

I love it!

Tomcat... I wired my shop, basement, media room, game room, etc... I left enough extra wiring for this as I anticipated either a welder or a compressor at 220V... I ended up getting a free huge compressor from Sears for free that runs on 120V (Remind me to tell you about the "Stupid Tax" THAT guy paid!) so I have an open 220V spot ready... But I don't want to be tied to one spot.

Nmem... I like to buy the best... If it is a little more I don't care. My Dad taught me to buy the best even if you need it once... Because if you need it once... You'll most likely need it again. And I want to be able to count on it.

I even read up on buying the HO alternators and building my own welder as I did my own spot welder. But I need a MIG for what I want to do. I love Harbor Freight... Don't get me wrong. But I also know that 67.325% of everything they sell is junk... And I'm being generous. Some of their stuff doesn't matter if it has Made In China or Snap-On printed on it. That is what I go there for. That and packing tape and stuff where it really doesn't matter who makes it because tape is tape... Or cast iron is cast iron... Or a rubber mallet is a rubber mallet the world around. But something like this? I'll pay extra to make sure it works every time. (But I'd buy my wire there!) <Maybe>

 

Dude... I can do ANYTHING! It's just that sometimes I want your guy's opinions and/or help.

Let's see... welder, carpenter, electrician, mechanic, sales, magician, wizard...... AAAAAAAAHhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

 

I can do just about anything too... a normal handyman... and I'm sure that I could weld if you showed me how... But to know that much about the actual welders... that's what's crazy to me

 

Well, TB - That's kindof why I suggested the other alternatives as well - that Linc 140 has been around for a long time, and it's ALWAYS been overpriced for what it is. If it were REAL Lincoln quality like my first DC Stick welder, sure - I'm sure that one is STILL working somewhere just like the days when I had it. But the 140 isn't what I'd call "REAL Lincoln quality" if you get my drift. You'd do better to look for a GOOD USED name brand commercial rig if you "Want the Best". That 140 is really is a lot closer in quality to the Harbor Freight Specials... and as I said, it is CERTAINLY not worth 3 times as much.

mnem
PS - The Tweco stinger & lead are ALWAYS money well-spent...

 

Mnementh

I know what you mean by smooth
My first mig was the esab 200
My friend who is a welder went with me to his favourite welding shop to help me choose a welder
I wanted something for a bit of bodywork, and my thoughts were that its thin metal and that I could get a low amperage 120v light and portable unit for $500
Well we tried several and ended up with an expensive 200amp unit
He did a test where we tried several welders mending the very thin metal of a coffee can
The cheaper low amperage units would burn through easier than the smooth esab



Alex

 

Heh... we used to play around the shop welding beer cans together with a Tweco spoolgun on mine. I had an L-Tec 160(Linde/ESAB) then moved up to a MigMaster 225; they were nothing short of fabulous.

I liked the OEM Stinger & Lead BETTER than my Tweco on that rig; but the Tweco rocked on HB's MillerMatic 200. The Miller had a nice soft arc that you could manipulate easily; but it would get harsh and splattery at higher currents.

The ESAB (both models) kept a smooth soft arc right up to max current, and their proportional wire speed controls were much more refined than the Miller models. You never really HAD to adjust speed on the ESAB when shifting ranges unless you were changing materials; the Miller always required a bit of fiddling.:confused2:

You know TB, you might want to look into an ESAB 170/203 - They're only a couple or three hundred more than that Linc 140 toy you're looking at, and are EASILY 5 times the machine.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ESAB-MIGMASTER-...34.c0.m14.l1262&_trkparms=|301:0|293:1|294:30

http://cgi.ebay.com/ESAB-MIGMASTER-...34.c0.m14.l1262&_trkparms=|301:0|293:1|294:30


mnem
Never put off till tomorrow what you can run away from today...

 

The larger ESAB is about the same machine that I had, but since mine was purchased 20 years ago , they are even cheaper now
I liked the gun that it came with, and me being a rookie welder I was amazed at how good of welding I could do
It handled up to 040 wire but I used 023 mostly for fine work and only occasionally switched to 030 for heavier work
I moved and sold it , and later bought the slightly larger Miller as I got into a few projects that I needed a wire-feed for and the miller was available at the time
Well the miller was sold a few years later as I moved into a condo and had no room for those hobbies
Again the ESAB was the better machine for fine work

Alex

 

The Esab are great looking units but I am looking for something 120V for now. I'd need it to be at least a little portable since I don't have a dedicated spot to weld safely. The shop downstairs would catch fire as would the garage. I put down a snap-lock floor in the garage a few years back so I can't even weld there as the sputter would melt into the floor.

Hmmm.... Maybe I should farm out the work....

 

Mmmhmmm... If your constraint is 120V power, then I'm afraid you're not going to be able to get into ANYTHING that wouldn't be what welders consider a toy...

My first suggestion would be to simply make an extension cord from 10 GA ROMEX and ends; I used just such a cord for years to plug into a dryer outlet and reach out into my driveway. With cable and ends you should be able to make a 50' extension for about $75, or a 100' for around $110; tho that 100 footer is a HUGE handful to work with if you don't need it. You can buy stranded 10 GA wire that's easier to handle; but it costs about 3 times as much per foot.

One thing to remember is that with those 125V units, they draw twice the current to make the same amperage at the stinger; you will need a 12ga or sometimes as heavy as 10ga extension cord to run it, and those are NOT cheap.

mnem
Weldificated...

 

Stay 120V, I have the Lincoln 135 and the thing does everything! Dont go cheap either because a Lincoln/Miller will last you 10x longer than any Harbor freight piece....


Go Lincoln! I use mine all the time.

 

With all due respect; if you think that 140 is a REAL Linc, or that it's a GOOD welder... Ummm... I can only say I question the level of experience you have.

Someone who knows how to weld can weld with ANYTHING; I've welded successfully using coathangers and a buzzbox made from a dryer heating element... that doesn't mean it was a GOOD welder.

For someone who doesn't weld all the time, I'll ALWAYS recommend cutting your teeth on a good, commercial-quality welder - these Linc 140s ARE a toy; they don't weld well, and they will be the source of great frustration to a new user.

mnem
Bigger, faster, louder - ALL THE GOOD THINGS IN LIFE.

 

Rick
The common way using solid wire and gas with a mig is best done in a shop
When you are using this outdoors you have to shield your work to make sure that wind does not blow the shielding gas away
Or use flux-core wire instead of solid

Alex

 

Alex is of course right about shielding your work from wind; it depends on your locale as to whether wind is a constant problem, or an occasional annoyance. I have worked in some locations where wind was strong enough to blow out the arc while stick welding... A wind shield is easy enough to construct using common materials, however.

As for FCAW... it tends to pocket impurities and voids due to the fact of the arc surrounding the flux and just plain not enough flux available to shield properly; with very few exceptions, I'd rather weld any other way if it's possible. While the materials now available have improved greatly, FCAW really was not developed as a means of welding where loss of shielding gas was a problem.

Rather, it was developed so that they could bypass the inherent hassle of managing a pressurized tank and sell a wire-feed welder to the masses that was ready to use out of the box, and to provide a means of welding specialty materials that requires only a change in wire, not a change in wire, gas & configuration.

If you aren't an experienced welder, I'd DEFINITELY recommend against starting with FCAW - it is inherently harder to get a presentable weld with and is usually very frustrating to first time welders. Start with the full kit - get the tank, practice with gas, then work with the flux-core wire. It's a lot easier to understand how you need to work the puddle with flux-core once you've got the basics down and you know how to get a good weld with gas.

Also... one other thing - these inexpensive single phase welders really require you to use Argon or Argon mix gas; it's pretty expensive. The ESAB and a few other commercial models use more expensive to produce multi-core transformers which create the same smooth welding current as a 3-Phase welder; they are suitable for use on steel with much more cost-effective straight Co2 which provides better tip cooling and saves money on gas. Of course using the argon mix on the ESAB will make an even smoother weld, but I know from experience the difference their welder makes in a production setting and the cost saving was definitely worth it.

This again is a matter of personal preference; the smoother the arc, the less spatter, and the less cleanup afterwards. If you're not using it all the time, you won't feel the hit in your wallet very often so you may prefer to go for the Argon mix; it's easier to use even if more expensive.

mnem<~~~TANKED~~~*

 

Okay... To chime in again... I can wire my shop and/or garage with 220V as I planned ahead for this years ag when I finished the basement. I have several 10GA lines running to my shop. On one of them I am running 120V to the compressor in the shop. (Yes... It is in the basement... Not in the garage!) <I don't want that kind of noise in the garage... Are you kidding me?>

I can wire the garage for this as this is most likely where I will do the welding after laying out some sort of asbestos underlayment <um.. Yeah> Perhaps I should look at the 220V?

I am not looing for Miss Right... Just Miss Right Now! This is not a welder to last me the rest of my life and do EVERYTHING for me. Well... Let me rephrase that... I would like if it lasted the rest of my life... But I relaize this is not the "Be-All, End-All" of welders... I realize that for heavier stuff I'll need a stick welder... Which I thought about getting... But I just want to weld sheet metal and 1/8" steel... I know I won't be up to welding I-Beams liek I used to be able to with the Lincoln Arc Welder...

I just thought a 120V Mig would be more handy... I don;t care if it is classified as a "Toy", A "Welder" or a "Thingamabob"... As long as it can do what I want it to do and it will last me for a long time. I know if I want to build a skyscraper that this is not the welder I want.

So... Will the one I want, regardless of the money factor, be the one I REALLY want?

 

Rick -

The one you're looking at is a very "small" welder; its capacity vs duty cycle is small & short (90A @ 20% duty cycle), meaning you will have times when it shuts down for thermal protection if you get into "an all-day project" on heavy sheet metal. If you're going to spend almost $800 on that Linc, I say go the extra couple hundred and get the ESAB 203 rated 115A at 60% duty cycle and 200A at 20%; they are the Cadillac of MIGs, and their bottom of the line is STILL INDUSTRIAL QUALITY. This means it's made for people who KNOW welding, and it will be 10 times easier to learn on.

That 203 would be, for most people, the last welder they ever need and it is made to WORK all day. That Linc 140... well, you could very easily outgrow it in one weekend; Ive seen more than one person who did.

If you're looking for Miss Right now... I still say get the Chicago Electric Like I suggested earlier or if you must have a Linc, try the ProMig 140 for about half the price you're looking at. They're 8-point tapped output like the CE not Constant Voltage; but you'll have the same amperage & duty cycle and you'll get to see why you want more machine than it is without spending ALMOST as much as a full-power machine.

mnem
Juice me up Scotty!

 

I had no idea I was going to buy the higher amperage welder when I went to the welding supply store
I was thinking lower amperage and a lower priced 110v unit would work the best for the light weight material I was working with
The higher amperage unit produced better welds on thinner material
I will leave it at that as your original goal (to produce a prototype) is different that my interest in learning to weld and to fabricate
It’s a good idea to do the prototype yourself as you can change and modify it as you go along
If the final prototype is not looking as good as you want you can have a pro copy it for you
When it come to production you will sub the manufacturing out to China lol

Alex

 

Personally, from experience, I would always go up a step or two in amperage than you think you'll need right now.

I'm almost to the point of doing welds that need 250amps or higher (mostly so I can do continuous welds at 200 amps. You gotta pay attention to the duty cycle). I did a few pieces of 3/8" steel, and had to keep letting the machine rest.

However, I think my next machine will be a high amp TIG. That way I can get into some really cool stuff.

With that said, the 140 should do you for what you plan to do right now (and is one of the largest 110v welders you can buy). I'd still kick away from Lincoln though, because you'll be paying more just because it's a Lincoln. It's kind of like how Dell is the largest name in PCs right now. But we all know how Dell isn't really the best route to go for most people. Sure, they have recognition, and support... but it's not the best, nor the ultimate. (Panasonic takes that cake )

 

We buy a lot of portable welders at work. They get sunk, crushed, and other wise abused. The best of a bad bunch has been Miller for the last couple of decades. We buy machines which are much heavier than Rick needs, but Millers are made in the USA and have the best life expectancy of any I've tried. Lincoln used to be the best back when they made the 400amp portables with the Perkins Diesels in them. Those are serious welders and a lot of them are still working hard. What Modly said about duty cycle though. If you push any machine to the point where you have to keep letting it rest its not enough machine for what you are doing.
CAP

 

But can you put every round round in the ten ring. All else is secondary.

 

As a matter of fact... I can... And I have LOTS of rounds!

 

I had used one of those ESAB 203 at my dad's workshop to do alot of body work on my Old Dodge pickup, and it went at least 4 or 5 hours of almost constant use before it cycled off due to thermal protection. Apparently fabricating a pickup box is a good bit of work and now i can tell everyone that my truck is custom, WOOT! Anyway, it lasted alot longer than just about any of the cheaper priced ones that I've used.

Daniel

 

Toughbook, I actually own that very welder, I have used it quite a bit harder than you think a 20% duty cycle would allow, this winter I welded up a steel snowmobile trailer and had no issues.

 

Tucker... Which welder? We've talked about so many... I assume since you mention the 20% duty cycle you mean the one I originally posted?

 

look to the future! you can always barter, buy, trade toughbooks, but I think I would first try to find a mig with a swivel touch screen and at least 1 gig of ram! hope you remember your fellow toughbookies when you are on top of the heap!!!

 

Rick I will not be as long winded as others in this string of opinions......MIG Welder.

 

Well, then, vote in the poll, silly!

mnem
One dwagon, one vote...

 

Don't bother buying the welder. IMO you should put the money towards buying a good introductory textbook on thermodynamics.

It will do you a lot more good in the long run.

 

Now, now, now... even if Rick is wrong and all those scientists who've been working on free energy for centuries are right, we STILL shouldn't dampen his enthusiasm for buying a welder... I mean... dude... IT'S A WELDER...

mnem
A boy and his MIG... it's a beautiful thing.

 

Well... Without getting into it... It's not free energy... But close to it. It would not cost much at all to keep everything going...

I think I will try for the Esab... But I need to sell SEVERAL more Ultimate Toughbooks!

 

Go for the welder. If your invention works and you market it you then can buy all the toughbooks you could ever want !!!!!!!

What is the bank account number you want the money routed too lol


-James

 

Well, you see, Rick -
Even if things don't work out you'll still have a fine welder, and that's got to brighten your day. But, uhhh... watch out for welder's sunburn... LOL

mnem
MORE POWER!!! BWAHAHAHA!!!

 

Your full of it.