www.custom-toughbooks.com?

Has anybody had any experience with the cf-29 gps kit that they are selling? Apparently includes a Holux gr-87 engine and an unspecified ceramic antenna.

 

They are friends of ours and it is a great product!
CAP

 

SOME think it is a great product... I have heard as many bad stories as good... There have been discussions about this before... Just a few days ago as a matter of fact...

 

Cap

Do you have one of the Kits?

I think there is a few people here that have them

Most of us though mod our own
Read the popular sticky thread on CF-29 GPS instalation

Alex

 

Alex,
I do have one, Vincent sent it to me while they were in the testing stage. Kind of a thank you for some 32v adapters I hooked him up with.
CAP

 

I wasnt aware there was any negative feedback on these, I was getting ready to buy one

 

Vincent.... of customs....Also sent me a gps kit for cf-18. I installed it to my cf-18 but I have no time yet to test completely as I am busy to my unit that I am modifying. But initially I am having a good result on it. Inside my apartment I acquired 6-7 satellite signal and four got fixed. It has a default baudrate of 9600 not the one mostly used here. So, the Streets and trips don't like it but you can find a navigational software that will be compatible into it. I am trying to adjust the baudrate to 4800 but I am having no luck yet. I will give you the complete review later but for the meantime those individual that has no capacity to mod their own unit. I say go ahead but remember you need to provide your own compatible software. Good Luck


ohlip

 

Connor
I have not really seen comparison between this and other options
My personal preference is the antenna in the lid for best reception
But others have their own idea's on what works for them



Teo

The baudrate will have to be resolved to interest me
I will pm you and will give you some idea's that might work

I had to flash some usb gps units that were set for 38400 , and it was a hassle
I need 4800 for compatability 9600 will not work for me

Alex

 

I tried to adjust on a port setting to, but instead I've got an error.
I will try again later on which area will be the best to do it.



ohlip

 

I am impressed with the PC board and the gumption that Vincent had by coming up with this kit. But I am not sure there is a large enough base to support the amount he built. (Sort of like us having the discussion of custom molded corners for GPS antennas)

I think the Holux GPS receiver is a bit too fragile for me. (I am aware that others are using it with success... But for the most part they are experienced modders.. Not your average customer.) The first kit that I had (that didn't work) broke the MMCX collar on the GPS engine while I was removing the antenna... to take the kit out for return. This was in the early stages. As I posted in the link above.... The second kit that was supplied was VERY well laid out and packed and the PCB was soldered at the factory and was supposedly run through their testing facilitates. I installed it and it seemed to work well... Not as well as the EM408 + Sarantel or active patch... But well enough that there was NO problem getting a signal... And it seemed to pass my stamp of approval. At the time I had a customer who wanted BT installed with their GPS... I figured since that kit worked well... I would go ahead and try it out. Since the BT module is buried in middle of the laptop... Your cell phone needs to be around 10 feet or less away for a pairing.... Which was cool with me also. I went ahead and sold it with the kit installed.

The customer emailed me upon his receipt of my Toughbook saying he couldn't get a lock. My first thought was operator error as it had worked for me just two days before! I gave him various instructions on uninstalling COM ports, disabling other items to ensure there were no conflicts of any sort.... Nothing... He sent me a picture of him and the laptop in the middle of a baseball or football field at 3am in the morning.... with 2-3 sats trying to lock... But it just couldn't do it.

I paid for him to send it back so I could swap in my system. When I turned it on to test... I got a signal... I locked 4-5 satellites almost immediately. I was thinking... What was THAT guys problem? It worked okay... Then it all went out... No locks, no links, no sats... Nothing....Then after a while it popped back on but with fewer satellites... It was just not reliable!

I'd like to think that with my years of experience I would know how to install this kit. I certainly haven't had issues with my setups. So I removed it and installed my own system and the guy loves it.

I have heard others crow about what a great system this is. To my knowledge... All of these people are ones that have never modded in their own type or style GPS system. They are random people off the web and maybe a few members here.

I have no axe to grind as I think Vincent is a very personable and capable guy with a great idea. I just think some of the components are a bit weak. I would think that he would participate in the forum to address these issues and I don't understand why he doesn't make himself available as a vendor to answer questions. Perhaps he will now?

 

Easy and Kit form will always be a compromise in my mind

I wish this was available with just the pcb and interface cable to the m/b and a couple of usb out + the serial out and power
Then we could each install our choice in GPS engines, bluetooth,usb wwan, whatever combination we want

This might be just me but,I love to read posts where someone Mods something new and different

Alex

 

Well I might have spoken too soon! All I got from Vincent was the board which converts the GPS connector to a flat cable and adds a USB2 internal port. I thought it was a pretty neat way to avoid all that soldering of round wires to flat cable. I have no experience with the full kit. I haven't used it yet as I haven't felt the need for a CF-29 with internal GPS.
CAP

 

Vincent is a great guy. If you didn't get a complete kit he will make it right.
what kit did you order?

 

I have already said that Vincent is a great guy, I was just explaining that he sent me a board to mess with long before the kits went on the market. I am a loyal USGlobalSat customer who won't change until I have a good reason which I very much doubt I will ever get. In the spirit of full disclosure, I have owned stock in SiRF for quite a while.
CAP

 

Excellent Cap

What are you intentions for the board
I take it you are using it for an extra usb

Alex

 

I just asked if I could get the antenna and ground plane by itself to use for the Home brew setup. I aske about the board by itself as well.

How many here would be interested in they parts seperate? Like the antenna or the expantion board. Maybe we can get him to sell the parts seperately on his site.

 

I'd be interested in one or more of the expansion boards and ribbon cable. Heard it has pads to solder to the USB and serial port(s)

 

As far as I know you can replace the gps module by your own choice as it has a provision pad for it. The problem on the first batch of his kit is the antena If you could mount an antena at the top of LCD like the sarantel or a patch antena with 27dB gain I am pretty sure you've got a nice setup but it is only of my own observation. The rest is yours to be make.


ohlip

 

talked to the owner and he said that he is willing to sell the parts separate from the kit.

 

For those that might want the breakout board from CT then here are the prices. I asked about the ground plane kit. Not too bad of prices

Pm me if your interested I will give you his info.

Ian

 

Yes thanks shackwrrr

Not crazy about the kit,but

I will contact him directly for a board
One or two internal usb outlets would be handy for bluetooth as the stock panasonic option is expensive


Alex

 

Make sure the board supports the Panasonic BT Switch!

 

I haven't seen it mentioned here but I just discovered that there is a place in Norway called Custom Toughbooks that makes GPS kits for CF-18, CF-29 and CF-30 systems.

Has anyone explored these options? They look quite well designed.

Craig.

 

Craig I moved your post to an exiting thread

I am trying out a partial kit from them
I say partial as it will be superior to their kit when I finish modding it to my high standards


Alex

 

I've got the full kit in my CF-18, and couldn't be happier.

The CF-18 model uses the uBlox receiver, which is probably the best (non survey-grade) GPS chipset currently available. 50 channels, GPS and GALILEO, fully user configurable, up to 5Hz update rate, ~1s TTFF. You can also configure it for pure 4800bps NMEA if that's what you need.

I pulled the bluetooth module from the USB slot, as I don't really have an application for bluetooth right now.

I can confirm that the panasonic bluetooth switch utility does work with this. However, it powers off both the GPS and bluetooth (the reason I pulled the bluetooth module)

nine

 

I'll go on record again and say that they use the cheapest components available. Some have had great success.... Good for you. But I have been modding Toughbooks for a great deal longer than most on this board and I have tried two of these kits. The ribbon cables are about a 1/3 of the thickness of the ones I use. The Holux GPS systems, while some like them, are way too fragile for a Toughbook. Several here have had issues if they have had to connect, disconnect and then try to reconnect the antenna cable as the brass collar on the Holux unit is way too fragile and breaks off. To me this does not meet the criteria of a Toughbook. Plus the BT unit is buried in the middle of a magnesium case.

There are some here who buy the kits because they have no idea how to do it themselves and then market themselves on ebay as Genius's because they can offer GPS in their "New Level Toughbooks" (I feel they are lower lever but that is just me)

To me... This is a case of where the lowest bidder won the bid. The PC board may be okay but I had issues even with them. At least the first one I had. The second kit that was a trial seemed to work fine for a few weeks so I installed it in one I sold. It cost me dearly because not only was I out the price of the kit... But shipping both ways to and from the customer to correct the issue... Not to mention the correct part that I should have installed in the first place. (My own system!)

So... roll the dice if you want. But I still say that if you do not understand the principles of how to do it all yourself (For half the cost I might add!) That you really have no business poking around inside and modding your Toughbook!

That's just my opinion though.... Well... It's actually shared by others too from the PMs that I get....

 

I admit, I like the concept of Vincent's board! I admire anyone that could take a difficult technical project like this from concept, prototyping and testing, to finished product!

I have read about the Holux GPS and never seen one in action. So I can not comment on their quality. However, the EM308 in my unit has given amazing performance, typical satellite is less then 5 seconds and it has only taken over 10 the first time I set it up. It does this easily inside of buildings. This combined with the proven reliability of the platform convinces me that I made the right decision. Reliability is the whole reason I have a Toughbook.

 

Does anybody have Vincent's contact information? I'd like to purchase some of his parts, but I don't need the entire kit.

 

He is a member over at Rob's site.

 

Or you could email him at www.custom-toughbooks.com!:cool:
CAP

 

Contact via the website. I noticed the GPS kits are also being listed on Ebay.

Craig.

 

I actually bought one of the kits from ebay. I don't know much about gps "stuff", so the kit seemed like a good idea for a first timer (first toughbook too!).

The kit went in pretty easy, I only had 3 quams with it.
1. No double sided tape (it's ok, I have some industrial strength stuff lying around)
2. I think the kit is awsome, don't get me wrong. But how much more expense would it be for the maker (vincent?) to include 1ml of conductive glue. Finding a small & cheap quantity of that stuff locally is painful.
3. The ribbon cable is just a bit too awkward, but I guess that's unavoidable. I put in an extra S loop under the hdd plastic tray, and secured it with tape, until the tray could be installed and squish it down without kinking it.

In hindsight, it would have been a good idea to draw the lines on the ground plane before I bent it (had to re-bend one of the sides 3 times). And I would recommend using, buying, or borrowing a pair of 4" hand breaks to bend the tabs (worked out well for me).

The instructions on the site are pretty good. It took me a minute to figure out what the "WM cover" was; but that was just the ignorance of a noob.

I lock 4-6 satalites inside, and lock a solid 6 outside or in my astro.

All in all, the quality of the kit seemed great, and installed pretty easily, considering I didn't have any experience with the guts of a ToughBook or a GPS anything.

 

That seems to be the greatest problem with the kit from my readings. You have only six satellites outside when most users with either the Bluetooth/USB puck or the home hacked kit are getting 10,12 or even more. Also, when you get on the road, notice how it behaves in heavily treed areas and also in downtown areas if there are tall buildings. I have a Globalstat 353 USB puck and I get at least 11-12 anytime I fire it up and never go below nine no matter how bad the cover over where I am going. Once it locks on, it is golden.

 

I do have to admit, I didn't glue the antenna to the ground plane: I taped it untill I could get some glue.... maybe that's some of the reason...yeah, that's it (or at least that's what i'll keep telling myself)

 

The ground plane doesn't need conductive glue.... As it in not truly a ground plane.... Just a reflecting dish basically...

The ribbon cable is bendable... I pre-bend mine before I install them... Then I flatten them back out... So you know how it goes... But then I've installed hundreds of GPS units in CF-29s.... Custom ones with the EM408... Not the frail kits being sold.

 

It radio parlance, a Passive Backplane Reflector. Being at ground just helps to insure that it acts as a reflector, and keeps it from getting all bossy and thinking that it is some kind of Director...

 

Well... There you have it.... Straight from the pig's mouth... Can't be clearer than that!

Azrial... I'll give you a buzz tomorrow.... Just want to check in....

 

So, jb weld or 5 min epoxy will be fine?
who is it that sold that to me (are they on this forum)?
And then my next question was about the Holux GR87 vs the em408. What makes the 408 better?

 

So... NO JB WELD! NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

Vincent has visited here but, for some reason, perhaps because he would be listed as a vendor, doesn't seem to want to help people here who have bought his kit.

The Holux unit is cheaply made (IMO and others), doesn't have the power the EM408 has, doesn't acquire as quickly, doesn't maintain lock as well, etc...

What you bought and installed will most likely work fine for the street navigation you (hopefully) bought it for... However... If you are a first responder... Tear it out now and go with the EM408.... If your life DEPENDS on YOUR GPS... Read, Understand and BUILD your own using quality materials!

The Holux unit is just WAY too cheap for my tastes. I do this for a living... I had two Holux units crap out while handling them gingerly... Or so I thought. Perhaps I was handling it like I would the 408? One Holux unit had the antenna connection break off in my hand. They may work okay AFTER you install them... But be VERY careful.

The board, I hear, is okay... Though both my kits didn't work right... Well... The first one didn't work at all... The second one worked for a week and then wouldn't lock on any satellites. All the parts are in my hell drawer down in the shop.

 

Read this thread
http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=425737

I have a post there #26 that shows what I receive for sats using the best components available (11 sats on my cf-29)


Alex

 

I still haven't installed nav software, so I just set it up in the passenger seat with easy gps running, and looked over every once in a while.
I kept a lock on at least 4 sats, 6 or7 for 1/3 of the trip, and had 8 or 9 for about 1/3 of the trip.

The GPS is installed, and for finding my way around like a friggin tourist, so it should do fine for now. Maybe, after I get out of noob status, I'll see a need to upgrade. For the time being, I would rather focus on the dvd drive, ram, car mount, etc, first.

And on that note, there will be a lot of rednecks out there that er sure gonna' be proud a' me! I'll post pics of my DIY dock mount tomorrow, after I get it installed...

TOUGHBOOK:
I feel like I could see a crack twitch like response with that "nooooo". May I ask you to elaborate on that? What would you recommend for the task? TIA!

 

This is why you don't need to glue anything.... No need. NADA... NOOOOOOO



Especially JB Weld.... This is electronics... Not farm equipment!

What you need is a better GPS engine and antenna.... That kit was bid by the cheapest all the way around. Like I said... I hear the board is okay.... Though if you REALLY want BT... You'd need to fab an antenna to where it could get a signal.

 

So just let it float around in there? no double sided tape, wad of gum, nothin?

I do construction as my main line, so duct tape or JB weld are impulsively the first solution to any problem. Then my MCP kicks in, and reminds me you can't duct tape the lcd back into a smartphone.... or whatever.

 

"Duct tape is like `The Force'. It has a light side, a dark side, and it holds the universe together...."
--Carl Zwanzig

 

It is a pressure fit. I use a copper reflector half the thickness as Vincent and it works much better. But then I use better components. Just look at the photos on ebay. I routinely get 8-12 sats.... Never less... All with strong & consistent signal lock. One of the new posers... a newcomer has gone to erasing the numbers above his GPS signals In WinFast Nav so that you cannot compare HIS signals.... But if you look close.... You can still tell because the signal meter only goes up halfway. When I first saw this I busted out laughing.... Most people wouldn't notice... But if you are used to looking at the program... You KNOW!

There are so many ways to scam people...

Now, it is he who was a newb a month ago is now an "Expert" on ebay.... Even though they still ask questions that are covered in the stickies!

This is one reason I feel that we almost do a dis-service to the public. We disseminate so much info... Everyone wants to suddenly cash in. They see money being made and want to buy the kits and spray paint to make it look like they know what they are doing and are selling new stuff... When it is actually the opposite. All they do is drag down the forum with people who buy their products then come on here to ask questions about how to fix what should have been working in the first place. Or they use their best satellite photo ever as the one they use for every auction. Just look at the date on the photo... They erase the satellite strength numbers... But all the dates are the same.... So much for intelligence.

But I digress....

 

Those guys have now come up with a 50 channel version of their setup, check it out:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220587504334&fromMakeTrack=true

Even at 50 channels, it probably still is something made with cheap items...that red board the module is mounted on looks the same as the cheapo 20 channel CF-30 board he sells

 

Anything above 20 channels is for advertising purposes only...

From GPSReview.net...

Why More?
So why have 20, 30, or 60 channel receivers? To some degree it is a marketing gimmick. Back in the “old days” of GPS, a receiver might only have 8 channels. Then came along the 12 channel receivers which improved reception and acquisition times dramatically. Then came along 16 channel receivers which also showed some improvement. So where to go from there? Add more channels.

Unfortunately, now that the number of channels a receiver has has exceeded the amount of satellites you can realistically track at any given time, the benefits of a 20+ channel receiver are muddier. This issue is further compounded by the fact that many of the popular 20 channel chipsets such as the SiRFstarIII, have a 20 channel receiver. The SiRFstarIII is a great chipset– without doubt, but its greatness isn’t just because it has 20 channels. (The reasons are more technical and beyond the scope of this article.)


So... Don't let the 50 - 60 channel GPS engines wow you... It's all bunk. (Mostly!)

 

There are only 30 GPS satellites currently active in orbit at present, although the system design can accommodate up to 32. Typically most places on earth can see at least 8 at a time. Since orbits are no longer symmetrically arranged, you might see a few more than 1/2 the total on some occasions. As Toughbook said, the ability to track more than 20 serves no real utility.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GPS

 

One day, I'm going to write a relly nice thread about all I've learned about my cf29.

I have tried iguidance, sygic, and a couple others. The gps kit I got works pretty well. I'm not saying life/limb/first responders should use it, but it does work well. I usually have a good lock on 7-10 satellites, almost all the time (i've been checking often)

 

I knew it! See how nice it is that we have all these dedicated Toughbook modders debunking myths and exposing the phony gimmicks for what they really are