(probably) my last time posting about the keyboard problem

As I think a lot of people know, I returned my m15x because the response rate of the keyboard often dropped to intolerably low levels. You must then imagine my frustration to find that my Sager, to a lesser extent, exhibited the same issue. I was working under the impression for a little while that this problem was caused by the fact that both the keyboard and trackpad communicate with the motherboard of the pc through a shared ps/2 bus.

however, i am convinced that that is not the case. what i am seeing is that the problem's severity varies sharply based on the environment in which i am typing. for example, message board dialogue boxes such as this one are usually pretty bad. trillian (an AIM client) is usually pretty good...and microsoft word rarely presents any issues.

Lord of the Rings Online is arguably the best, and FFXI is bad. If this problem really were the result of mixed messages from different hardware devices, it would stand to reason that the severity of the issue would be a constant. That is clearly not the case. That said, it definately isn't the software either. When I use an external USB wireless keyboard, the issue dissapears completely. It is only present on the laptop's hardware keyboard.

This doesn't seem to make sense. Why would this happen? Are there any theories? If it's not the hardware...and it's not the software...wtf is it? I ask for your understanding and patience, as I am growing increasingly frustrated with this problem. It just seems...profoundly unfair to me. I returned one computer because of this problem...got another one...and here it is again. It's not as bad on this one...but i mean..wtf...this is a TOP end system...i should not have to deal with crap like this to ANY extent.

Why me? Thoughts?

 

I have no idea, I have learned to live with it or use an external keyboard.
I don`t really expect a fix to be created any time soon...

 

thats so depressing eleron! now your going to have to cheer up both me and callidor.

 

Unfortunately, that makes perfect sense - that the symptoms coming from the hardwired keyboard would be different from those coming from the USB keyboard, since they are running through two different parts of the chipset. The USB keyboard sends its commands in over the USB controller and is completely software-controlled; the built-in keyboard sends its commands in across the KBC which, I suspect, also plays a role in controlling the fans and governing the system temperature, and is governed by the BIOS and/or internal firmware.

I assume that you've got the latest BIOS update and firmware updates - although perhaps you should doublecheck. If so, and you don't mind doing a lot of intensive, mind-numbing experimentation, I would slowly walk my way down the set of available KBC drivers to see if you notice any difference in responsiveness.

Also, I realize that the BIOS is pretty gelded, with very few options available, but I would check to see if there are any BIOS options for setting the key rate or the size of the keyboard buffer.

 

Right..it makes perfect sense that it would effect the laptop's keyboard and not a USB one...but what doesn't make sense to me is that the keyboard is better in some settings than others. If it were a problem that could be solved by a setting or something, i would imagine that it would be constant...but it's severity varies depending on where i am typing.

 

The severity is going to be different depending on a number of different variables, some of them invisible, since the KBC is part of a multi-function device. basically, to the extent that polling the CPU thermal measuring units and fans, and sending control commands to the fans increases, the latency in the keyboard response will increase. I don't know all of the internal details of how Clevo programmed the system to manage its temperature, but I would imagine that, as the system temperature approaches certain threshholds, the monitoring subsystem begins to poll the temp measurement devices more frequently, which would cause the severity of the delay in the keyboard to increase.

 

May be when CPU has less job the keyboard works well.Just a thought.

 

That is also a good point - in particular, depending on what other system interrupts have a higher priority than the keyboard, an increase in the frequency of those interrupts would have the effect of increasing the apparent latency of the keyboard response.

 

All these things seem to make plenty of sense...but why does it seem that this problem affects so few people? Most laptops I've used have never had this problem at all. All of these things are things that all laptops have/experience...why would it effect the laptops i've owned and not others? -.-

 

You type much, much faster than most of the rest of us?

 

Do all NP5793's have this issue?

 

No, mines doesn't seem to have this issue.

 

Precisely what makes me so frustrated >.>

 

Well eleron did say he had the issue as well so perhaps its more common than you think?

 

Frankly,I`ve never used a laptop keyboard that doesn't skip a letter or two when I type fast.

I type reeeeealy fast on an external keyboard,but on a regular laptop one I drop the speed to 1/2 so that I can type safely...

 

Hmm...it's strange that you see it so frequently. I've noticed it on this laptop, the m15x (on which it was unbearable), and my friend's alienware m550. (i think that's what it is). Other than that, including my original ibook from 2000, I've never seen it anywhere. I guess it's a little comforting to know that I'm not alone in experiencing this issue...but it doesn't make it much less irritating.

 

In terms of the other systems on which you've not seen it before, are there any categorical distinctions between those systems and the 5793, m15x, and m550 on which you have seen it? One possible difference that comes to mind is the level of dedicated graphics power - the better the GPU, the more likely it is that the fans will get constant attention for heat-management purposes, which would tend to have an aggravating effect on keyboard latency insofar as the keyboard is run through the same controller as the fans.

 

Well..that does seem like sound reasoning...and indeed, the laptops i've used outside of my own are usually school ones...low end dells and whatnot. kind of ironic that the higher end sytems would consequently be more prone to rudamentary-seeming problems...heh

 

My HP bussiness laptop does it too. Less often ,but still.
However, if it`s any consolation, even my external keyboard messes up sometimes

 

WTH, I have never had this problem with any computer I've owned (P100Mhz<--{family}, Gateway 300Mhz celeron laptop, Compaq Presario Athlon 900Mhz, HP ZD8000 P4 2.4Ghz HT), except with the 386's and Apple IIe's I used in grade school back in the day WOOT Oregon Trail!

 

You're lucky then I guess.
It`s annoying especially when typing reports or stuff.
But I use spellcheck most of the times...

 

That's F'N messed up, what about warranty coverage? Shouldn't a manufacturer recognize this as a serious hardware defect, sheesh you can say all you want about overload CPU/Bus W/e, but the cold hard truth is keyboards HAVE TOP priority and should ALWAYS be the last element to go out in the event of a complete system slowdown, unless the manufacturer has seriously EffT up your machine. I don't think you should just shrug this off. Did you try the BBB or Consumer Reports?

 

You catch more flies with honey than with vinegar - why not try talking civilly to Sager/Clevo, build some public support for a campaign to get the KBC firmware optimized, and see if that brings results - it's nowheres near as emotionally "satisfying" as whinging to the BBB, but, at least in eleron911's case, it got much, much better results. I rather doubt Sager would have put as much effort into massaging out the kinks in the fan firmware if eleron911 and others had simply filed complaints with the BBB and left it at that.

 

well...I know that the alienware boards have reps from the company dropping in from time to time...is there anyone from Sager whom we can contact with a petition type thing? Honestly, I can live with this issue if I must...but if it can be fixed with a BIOS revision or w/e, I'd be happy to sign my name to a formal reqest

 

Talk to the resellers so that they get on-board and apply pressure from that side, and get in touch with the technical department at Sager (I believe they've got email addresses, at least departmental ones, listed on the Sager website), and pm Eleron911 to get some tactical and strategic tips.

 

Your definitely right

 

it's funny though, cause the closer we get to coming up with a real course of action to get this problem addressed, the more i'm finding that it's not so huge a deal, if i just type naturally lol....w/e though, i'd be more than happy to be on board with this.

P.S. New Mozilla browser is cool..you should check it out...but it's making me self conscious with its spell checking lines underneath all my internet abbreviations/acronyms/slang

 

I have the same problem as Callidor, but it appeared after my last KBC firmware update.
P.S. New Mozilla is extremely coool, u're right!

 

Yeah, I've been using ff3 since it was in beta4 (~2 months ago) and it does have some really neat features

 

I've noticed that my keyboard occasionally skips letters, thought it only does so when I'm typing fast. It's not really an issue for me, though, as I only use my lappy's keyboard when I'm on the go. Laptop keyboards are a bit awkward for me, as I've got huge clumsy paw-like hands, so for a long time I simply attributed the problem to that. My lady's Inspirion does the same thing, though not as often as my m570ru.

As I've got a bluetooth MX5500 keyboard/mouse set that I use while at home, or travelling for any length of time, it's really a non-issue for me. I nearly never actually use the lappy's keyboard anyways.

In regards to FF3 - I've been running it for a few months as well, and love it. In particular, the new Zoom feature is amazing. Rather than just monkeying with font sizes, it actually scales the whole page. On a small, high resolution screen like our screens, this is a beautiful feature!

 

Oooh I didn't know about that feature until you mentioned it. Awesome indeed

 

Is there a button fo that?

 

Sure, control + and control - zoom in and out respectively. Also, control-mouse wheel by default will zoom in and out. It's really, really nice, I use it all the time.

I swap between my lappy's 17, my 22" monitor, and my 40" HDTV. As I view each from entirely different distances, and they are all totally differenty viewing experiences, so my mouse wheel zooming is done pretty much constantly

FF3 will remember your zoom settings on a page per page basis, too. Handy, that.

 

Opera did the same thing for a while now.
FF2 only stretched text up until FF3

 

Hey, let me combine the two tangent topics of this thread. I didn't want to post this until I had tested it for a while and made sure it wasn't a coincidence, but now I'm pretty sure it's legit.

If you're experiencing keyboard problems in browser dialogue boxes (a posting box on a message board, for example), try using FF3. Where I would see occasional skips in IE, I virtually never see the issue in firefox. Give it a try. I think it's just one more way this browser is better

 

On a side note, just got my creative xfi express sound card, and the thing is AMAZING. The sound is so crisp and nice. The actual card itself doesn't even stick out to much like i thought it would.

 

I still got FF2, but I got an add-on called "no squint" that does this, just hold ctrl and use mouse wheel to zoom, but probably not as well, only text and images resize, sometimes it messes up the formatting, I just downloaded FF3 and I'm going to take it a whirl!!!

 

OMG. FF3. OMFG.

*Passes Out*
*Wakes Up*

OMG.

 

Opera 9.5 rules.