***YOU CAN FIND THE DOWNLOAD TO MY LOGS AT THE END OF THIS POST***
First of all, I know that this is a looong post, and it might put off many of you from reading, but I feel like it's best to give as much information as possible for those that will instead help.
So here's the story. After a long time carefully examining all the components available and the various resellers, earlier this year I finally bought a new gaming laptop, which arrived in February. It costed 2,355.53€ and these are the specs:
Chassis: Clevo P771ZM
Motherboard: Intel Z97 Chipset
GPU: GeForce GTX 980M 8192MB (8GB) GDDR5
CPU: i7-4790K | Quad Core | 8 Threads | 4,0 GHz
RAM: 16GB (2x8192) SO-DIMM DDR3 RAM 1600MHz Crucial
SSD: 512GB SSD Samsung m.2 XP941
SSD2: 256GB Crucial C300
OS: Windows 8.1 64 Bit
DRIVERS: 350.12 (drivers specifically released for GTA V)
This laptop replaced a 4 year old Clevo, a x7200 with a i7 960 3.2GHz, GTX 485M 2GB and 12GB RAM.
Usually when I buy a new gaming laptop, I take no shortcuts, I go for the best components currently available in order to have a very powerful machine that will allow me to max out almost all games (with a few exceptions, of course) for a relatively long period of time. For example, with my previous laptop, I could pretty much max out any new game for at least a couple of years without problems.
With this new one instead, even games that were running smoothly on my previous laptop are giving me problems.
OVERALL BEHAVIOUR:
I want to make immediately clear that this is not a problem of me having higher expectations in regards of what my laptop should be able to do VS what it can actually do. Not only because CLEARLY some games should run better than what they do (some of the same games were running better on my 4 years old previous laptop), but because, interestingly enough, certain rare times my laptop seems to perform at its full capabilities, giving me a constant 60FPS in all games, INCLUDING GTA V. But the majority of times, instead, I have huge frame rate drops, a very high FPS fluctuation, audio and video stuttering, or an odd 30FPS self-imposed cap. And the odd behaviours are not only in games, but also in Windows in general as well.
Following recommendations from the forum, I have been trying to monitor and log temps and other values, first with HWMonitor and then with the much more useful HWiNFO64.
I'll list here my experience with all of the games and attach the related logs, if available.
The logs created in HWiNFO64 can be viewed and compared with a very useful program called GenericLogViewer which you can download here (or here if that link doesn't work). This thread here explains how to use the program, even though it's really simple.
Overall, the observed behaviour seems that the system struggls in what it can do, like if it had a much less powerful processor, GPU and so on.
PERFORMANCE IN WINDOWS:
Before having a look at the performance in games, here's is what I have experienced in Windows, but this behaviours are inconsistent, they don't happen all the time, just sometimes:
1) [this is actually the only one that I have all the time, regardless] I have a mini video stuttering of like 1 second every 10 seconds or so in any video played in Firefox, like a youtube or facebook video. The audio is not affected, just the video seems to pause for a second and then it catches up. Seems to be a Flash plug-in issue. I don't have the same stutter in Chrome, but I think it's because in Chrome I don't have 30 tabs open, just 2 or 3. So maybe someone would suggest that if I experience this, I should simply close some tabs in Firefox, but, no, because with my old laptop I could have maybe 60 tabs open and still be able to play videos without problems.
2) I have sometimes an overall lag when using windows, it can be for a few seconds every now and then, but I definitely notice it. For example, when I click on a window or a tab or something, it seems to freeze for a second and then continues, even the mouse cursor can be observed lagging behind, even the spinning green or grey ring icon of a loading tab in Firefox can be seen spinning irregularly, freezing every so often.
3) something that I have experienced for a while, but not anymore (fortunately), was a very obnoxious "audio lag" while playing songs with Windows Media Player. I also noticed this once or twice with youtube videos, so it's not just WMP or the audio files, which are not corrupted or anything. The lag would be like the sound would loop for a second making it sound like it goes "PRRR" and then carry on normally.
I have recorded a few instances of this happening with my handheld camera. Here you can check it below. It's more obvious in the third clip.
Audio lag only in the first 25 seconds:
lag through most of the song:
audio lag mostly in the first 52 seconds :
The first two audio clips are from "Chop Suey" by System of a Down, the third one is "Toxicity" by the same group. I tried to pick some songs that would be well known so that people could more easily identify the skips in the audio. Turn the volume up if it's too low.
PERFORMANCE IN GAMES:
1) Dead Rising 3.
This was the first game I ever tried. Before starting to play, I put all the graphic details to the max, and once in-game I had a constant 60FPS. After a few days of play, I noticed that the FPS had gone down to something in between 15 and 50. Sometimes it would stay around 15-30, some other times around 30-45, and interestingly enough, some other times it would stay at a solid 60 like in the first couple of days.
Back then, I thought it was probably the game's fault since Dead Rising 3 was famous for having a poor optimization. Just to clarify something, when I would get the solid 60 FPS back, I'm not talking about when there's little to nothing happening on screen. Sometimes I would go back to have 60 FPS with all the screen filled with zombies and/or while having action sequences. So it wasn't directly correlated to how much stuff the system had to process in-game.
2) GTA V.
Pretty much as Dead Rising 3, I can sometimes have gaming sessions that go on for hours and they stay at a solid 60FPS, with maybe a 5-10 FPS drop here and there, while the majority of times it seems to stay capped at 30FPS, or range from something like 15 to 60 with huge oscillations in FPS continuously.
I have recorded quite a lot of data for this game. I have logs made in both HWMonitor and HWiNFO64, for when the game was working at 60 FPS and for when it was not, hopefully someone more experienced than me can have a look at these logs and be able to see what the hell is wrong.
This is one of the many interesting graphs that you can examine with the logs attached in this post:
![]()
The red line is the FPS before a crash, staying SELF-CAPPED at mostly 30 with some drops (when it goes to 60, it's probably because I open the map menu). The green line is the game right after the crash, at 60 FPS but with huge drops very often, but still almost never going below 50.
And I don't really know how to read these graphs properly, but have a look at this, for example:
![]()
So, to compare some other values, when the game was running at 30FPS, the total DRAM Power and the GPU Memory Controller Load were a lot less than when it was running at 60 FPS, but the GPU Core Load was almost always near 100%. There are however more downward spikes for the graph in green, which seems a lot more unstable than the red.
Additionally, I have video evidence of the game going at 60FPS, in all sorts of situations, from city to open environments, to even flying around in a helicopter. The quality of these videos is quite low since I was recording externally with my hand held camera which I could not keep centered on the screen for the best results, since I was also using both of my hands to actually play. However, you can see most of the screen and the Fraps FPS counter, so that's what matters:
15 mins @ 60 FPS:
flying over city @ 60 FPS:
And last but not least, I have captured these two very odd behaviours:
Invisible border that switches to 30 or 60 FPS depending on which side you're on:
30 to 60 FPS (and back) changing angles standing still:
In this last two videos, it can be observed more clearly how my system sometimes self-caps itself to 30 FPS, for god knows what reason.
3) Resident Evil Revelations 2.
In this game, I normally have 60 FPS, since it's not a demanding game. Initially I didn't have any problems playing split-screen co-op, however one night I had tremendous FPS drops all the times while playing. I didn't know about HWiNFO64 at this point yet, so the only logs I have are in HWMonitor.
Again, someone could say that since in split-screen the game needs to work twice as much, to generate the environment around the other player and whatnot, it's normal to expect a reduced performance, to which, again, I say no, because the game is definitely not demanding and because, again, some other times I have played in split-screen and had a constant 60FPS. The system should be able to handle such game at 60FPS, even in split-screen.
4) No More Room in Hell.
This is a free Steam game which has quite simple graphics, since it's a Half-Life 2 mod. I used to play this game on my old laptop, at max settings, at 60 FPS no problem. When recording gameplay with Fraps, the FPS would go down to a fixed 30, but the audio and video would remain smooth throughout.
Now, with the new laptop, if I want to record while playing, I get a FPS drop from 60 to 30 with all possible values in between. Again though, I did catch it a few times staying at nearly 60 FPS even while recording, proving once again that it's not that the system is not powerful enough to do this, it's just that there's something very wrong with it right now:
![]()
The most noticeable disturbance of recording while playing the game, is not only the FPS drop, but a clear audio stutter or audio artifact that would produce a distinctive sound. I don't know how to describe it but you can hear it throughout in this video (a clear example of it being at 0:14 seconds):
Perhaps it's difficult to notice this sound, but I can hear this sound effect almost once every five seconds. Once you learn to recognise it, you notice it's there almost constantly.
In one instance only, I had the game having huge performance hits even while I wasn't recording, with very noticeable gameplay stutter, like FPS drops to 5 FPS that would recover in a second, only to have another drop after a few seconds.
5) The Forest (version 17b)
I briefly tried this game, and I was having, again, huge FPS fluctuations. The only graphs I have are with HWMonitor, so unfortunately it doesn't show the FPS. I remember I could get maybe around 20-30 FPS in this game with the old laptop, and now having a lot more power, I can't go past 40 or so.
6) Robocraft
This is another free Steam game. It's another of those not very demanding games, and I usually run it at max settings with no problems, but I have experienced running this game like crap, with the FPS going up and down constantly.
CONCLUSION:
At the moment, I am really unhappy with what's going on. With the purchase of this new laptop I was expecting to finally enjoy gaming without having to worry about how well will they run, at least not for a good year or two, but this is really giving me a headache.
I hope the more expert users of this forum can download my logs, have a look at the stats and maybe find something that is the key to all this mess. With my limited knowledge, I can only observe and report.
Here's the link to all the logs:
http://www.sendspace.com/filegroup/7Ef50wTi/PWCCejp29zJaxDU+Sru0OD5hx8XR7uLZtg
IMPORTANT: Make sure to download GenericLogViewer here to view the HWiNFO64 logs in graph form, otherwise they are just a bunch of numbers.
This took me like 4 hours to write all down and prepare.
Thanks for any help given!
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I see this was re-titled and moved to the Clevo section, for some reason.
The price included in the title (2,355.53€) was significant since it showed how expensive the laptop is, in juxtaposition to how poorly it's performing, and it was in the Gaming section since I didn't want the thread to be exclusive to only other Clevo users, but all users instead, which are more likely to check a generic forum section like Gaming than a specific section for a certain brand. -
Its about a Clevo machine, it belongs in the Clevo forum. You would be amazed at the traffic that comes through here. I'll add the price back to the title. I left a redirect in the gaming forum so people can still get to this thread if they can offer assistance.
By the way, have you checked your Clevo control center and made sure that it is on high performance, not anything else? The 30FPS cap sounds like Battery Boost 2.0 kicking in for some odd reason. Have you double checked that you aren't losing power when this happens? If you're set for high performance, try another outlet.
I know I'm stacking posts but @ignorant your GPU isn't clocking up from 540MHz if the monitoring graphics are accurate. Grab the latest version of DDU and run that, clean all the nVidia drivers, and grab the 350.12 drivers on nVidia's site and install them and see if the problem continues. I'm not on my computer at the moment so I can't analyze your other logs but the bitmaps are pretty clear in showing that the GPU is not clocking up.
Edit : I pulled up the text files and looked... HWInfo is reporting that your cards are boosting the whole time in the first two files. My best advice at this point is to 1) check control center and make sure it's on high performance. If it is, switch to power saver and back. 2) DDU to uninstall the nVidia drivers and install fresh drivers and try again.Last edited: May 26, 2015TR2N likes this. -
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Another thing to check is whether or not that game is locked to 30FPS. Some of the console ports are. -
I second what @Ethrem is saying about downloading DDU go to safe mode run that to make sure it deletes all the nvidia files download the driver he recommend install, if that doesn't work also check to make sure the icon by your clock on the desktop that shows you have power or the battery is charging make sure that is set to performance also if none of this works then come back and we can try something else I guess lol good luck man
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Hi guys, thanks a lot for the replies.
Regarding the Clevo Control Center, it was set to Entertainment, now I switched to Performance (even though these are only pre-sets, I can have any value with any profile, but yeah, I made sure that Power Conservation is set to Performance and not Balance like it was before). I'm gonna test it and see how it works.
If there's no change, I'll try cleaning the drivers and re-installing them, even though they are the same as what I have now.
Regarding the logs, for the HWiNFO ones, I hope you guys have downloaded GenericLogViewer, which lets you display all the data in the form of a graph and lets you compare various files and/or various values, like in those photos in my first post. Otherwise, the HWiNFO logs are just spreadsheets filled with numbers, very hard to read.
About the GPU not going past 540MHz, it's interesting. I'll check my own logs again and have a look. But I don't really usually know what's normal and what's not.
Also, the laptop is always plugged in, and the battery is always fully charged.Last edited: May 27, 2015 -
Well I hope this fixes your problem good luck let us know
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk -
Updated your bios/EC + hotkey clevo software of course... (or not ?)
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Switching the Power Conservation from Entertainment to Performance in the Clevo Control Center didn't change anything, other than the fact that now one or more of the fans go loud a lot more often.
Tomorrow I'll clean the drivers with DDU like you guys said, and reinstall, see if that changes anything. -
Let us know how it turns out with the clean driver install. -
I run DDU in safe mode like the program suggested, then re-installed Nvidia Gefore Experience and let it download and install the latest drivers. Nothing changed. Actually, as of right now, while playing music I can hear that audio artifact that I was experiencing while recording while playing NMRiH.
Anyways, here's a graph of about 5 minutes of playing GTA V after reinstalling the drivers. Where the FPS peak back to 60 it's because I'm opening the main menu, but in gameplay, it mostly stays around 30-35.
Here you can also have a look at the GPU Clock / Memory Clock / Video Clock (not even sure what the real difference among these three is, to be honest), and they all seem to keep the same value, not staying below 540MHz as observed in some other graph.
Which makes me wonder, @Ethrem , which files exactly where you checking, when you saw that?
About updating my bios, like @wickette said, I honestly don't know how to do that. But.. will it really help? I think the problem is somewhere in the hardware.. I'm hoping someone eagle-eyed and more experienced than me can see and compare the graphs of these logs and detect something that is key to this annoying anomaly. -
I am at a loss. The only thing left besides an RMA would be to reinstall Windows and see if the problem persists.
As for the graphs that showed 540 core it was your HWmonitor pro for forest 17... Check the temperature-clockspeed bitmap. I was on my phone so I couldn't use your logs although I did pull them up on my phone and found that your card is boosting like they its supposed to. In fact, my cards don't hold their boost solid like that.
Your CPU temps were on the high side, in the mid 90s, but the CPU was not throttling at all despite that.
If a clean Windows install doesn't fix it, I would say you are looking at an RMA unfortunately.
On the subject of flashing the BIOS, it would be an absolute last resort as there is no coming back from a bad BIOS flash and your system is already unstable. I personally would not recommend it. It also would void your system warranty if something happened. -
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RMA? Oh dear. I don't think I can do that for now. I use my laptop for work, and I'm in Hong Kong. If I send it back to mySN, to Germany or UK, it's gonna take AGES for me to get it back. I can't do that. Also, I already had a business going on with mySN which was quite simple in nature but it took 3 months to get sorted, so I wouldn't dare to think how long it will take them to sort out something like this.
I must find some solution without sending it back.
I'm sure someone here might be able to point me in the right direction.
For the temperatures, yeah, the seem to be very high, I've even seen some 100 degrees sometimes. That's like a melting computer! What's the highest temperature that a CPU or GPU should be able to reach without it becoming too hot?
@t456 , the in-game settings weren't changed in between sessions, so when I have 30 or 60 FPS, that's with the same exact settings. V-sync was on. -
Try turning it off and rerun log/graph.
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But I'll try, see if at least within GTA there is any difference. -
Hi,
I've to admit that I did not read your whole analysis, as I'm not an expert and most of the info you've provided are too technical to me.
I would suggest you try with an other power supply, or even on an other location :
I experienced a similar erratic performance degradation when playing to the witcher 3 during a 7 hours trip in a train (sometimes perfs were good, but it was an average of 15-30 fps, even in low settings, while I run at more than 60 FPS in ultra when at home). I don't think it was only linked to the poor airflow (laptop fans were very close to the seat before me), I suppose that the power delivered was enough to fill the battery, but not to deliver the full power all time long (power supply is supposed to deliver 300W, right?)
If someone can confirm my idea is plausible...? -
Using a socket on the train might help, but that depends on whether or not it can supply 300W; airplane is limited to 75W, which is a tad underwhelming ... would need to join 4 sockets to get full power; ' Excuse me, are you using that socket?' (x3). -
He is saying the reason he got low fps is because he was using the train plug when he got home and used that plug it worked fine
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk -
@cynicK , I did a test, I changed socket and also changed the EU plug I was using for the UK one the laptop came with. No change.
Regarding airflow, all the laptops I have ever owned have always been kept raised from the surface they lay on with a small stack of jenga bricks, so the laptop itself is about 1.5 cm above the desk surface, and the backside of it is no longer as close to the wall as it was before, since I moved the desk forward so there's plenty of room all around it.
I have contacted mySN again to ask for "official" help from them at this point... In the mean time, I keep checking the values of my logs to try to spot something, but can't tell if most values are normal or not though... -
I know this may seem obvious but have you repasted gpu?
Aside from that, the audio crackle is concerning and would point to motherboard issue thereby requiring rma.
Good luck.Last edited: May 28, 2015 -
The sound actually reminds me of the DPC latency issue that the M17xR1 suffered from for a good 6+ months after its release.
@ignorant Did you install Windows yourself? If not, do a clean install and use the driver disc that came with the machine and install every driver in order, rebooting after each one, and then do the same for all the optional ones on the disc. See if that fixes your issues.
Your GPU temps aren't high enough to suggest a paste issue. -
It certainly looks like either RAM---Motherboard--CPU related issue.
Ignorant have you tried with one RAM module inserted?
Just another suggestion have you checked for Malware?(Could be CPU spikes causing this synonymous with virus/malware; again reinstall windows to be fully sure)Last edited: May 28, 2015 -
Honestly the best way to see if the sound issue is a hardware one would be to boot up a Linux live DVD or USB and play audio there. If it happens there, it's hardware and troubleshooting to narrow down the culprit can begin.TR2N likes this. -
Regarding reinstalling Windows, I guess I could do that, but does that require a formatting of the computer? Or can I re-install on top of my current installation, without having to lose all my files? Because at the moment I can't wipe out my data for a fresh reinstall.
What about CPU temps? Isn't a peak of 100 degrees way too much to be normal?
Something else about the RAM. In some program it shows me it's a 1600MHz, in some others it appears as 800MHz. I am not sure about this, I thought that when it says it's 800MHz it's because it's dual channel and it's counting only "one" channel so it's half of the total MHz, but, is that right, or am I making this explanation up? If that's the case, isn't it wrong that it shows 800 MHz sometimes? It should be 1600MHz.
I haven't tried having only one module because, as I was actually meaning to ask, I don't seem to be able to open the chassis, with this model. With my previous one, a Clevo x7200, I could open everything without problems and I used to dust off my fans regularly, and even the manual showed you every step on how to open everything.
With this P771ZM instead, it's completely sealed, I can only open it to access the HDD/SSD bay and nothing else. The manual doesn't show how to open it neither. The whole section on "how to upgrade your computer" present in the previous manual is gone.
How am I supposed to open it?
About malware, I have an activated and updated copy of Kaspersky Internet Security 2015, but I have to admit that Kaspersky seems to have gotten weaker and weaker through the years, as it doesn't do a decent job at blocking all the ads anymore, so I wonder if it's reliable for malware now. I could run some other antivirus maybe, what do you guys recommend?
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And after that super long reply, I can finally say, I have a JUICY log that I just got from playing the entire fifth chapter of The Evil Within.
Ever since I started playing this game a few days ago, I had a framerate of 30-40 average, but today while playing, I was able to reach 60 FPS for about 30 minutes. I'll post the log and a picture in a moment.
Looking at the values of all the components in the before, during and after the 60FPS timeframe should reveal something as in what changes in the system when I get 60 FPS and when I don't. -
The Evil Withing logs: https://www.sendspace.com/file/331j2v
Must be viewed with the GenericLowViewer to see graphs, get it from the first post in this thread.
The important file is the one in Chapter 5, since it goes to full power, at around 60FPS for 30 minutes before going back to underperforming.
Have a look at the FPS:
And I scrolled through all the values to see which ones where showing significant changes before/during/after the 60FPS period, I found some that could be interesting:
I have some more considerations to make on this, but right now I have to rush out, I'll be back later!
In the mean time, if you guys want to download the logs, use the Viewer to see the graphs and investigate, that would be great. -
Hey ignorant,
It certainly looks like a heat issue. 100c on cpu is not normal. I hope you are sending these findings to your place of purchase as this is not normal.
You need to get into the notebook and check your thermal cooling. Quite unusual that you cannot open it, hopefully someone with same model can chip in and offer advice/help.
I would check everything is inserted correctly and i would do a repaste just to be sure.
With ram sticks test with one in at a time and benchmark.
Good luck. -
http://www.notebookcheck.net/One-K73-5N-Clevo-P771ZM-Notebook-Review.135088.0.html
The situation is much better with the One K73-5N. You just have to loosen some screws before you can access all components, and we are not talking about just the storage devices, the wireless module and the DDR3 RAM (some slots underneath the keyboard), but also the fans and the cooling solution. Remove the latter, and you also have full access to the processor and the graphics card.
Maybe one of the resellers of this Clevo model can help?Last edited: May 29, 2015 -
The reason why some programs will show 1600 and others 800 is because it is DDR (dual data rate) memory rather than being dual channel. This means that CPU-Z for example will show the memory as 800MHz but it's rated at double this at 1600MHz - standard and completely normal
There is a lot of information in this thread to digest and for us to help ignorant with so in order to keep all our communication and support in one place we will do this via email - I just want to say this so that everyone's aware that we are helping him even if we don't post lots of replies in this thread![/USER]Last edited: May 29, 2015TR2N likes this. -
Looking at the graph, it seems like the system isn't supplying enough power. The fact that FPS spiked when CPU usage went down points to power throttle. @ignorant do you have a Kill-A-Watt or similar device to read the power draw?
The temps on the CPU are extremely high but it is not throttling at all. I would install XTU and drop the multis down to 35x and see if both your temps and your game performance get better. Maybe even drop to 30x... 3GHz should relieve a ton of the heat and still be plenty usable for games.MichaelKnight4Christ likes this. -
Bit of a long shot, but try disabling all your network adapters, turning off wifi, disconnecting physical network cables, etc. I've had a couple of Dells that had the cursor freezing issue, and either updating network drivers or ensuring that the network adapter was set to ....hmm it's a setting that gets the network card to do its own processing "CPU offload" or something. Hope you get it sorted out!
2,355.53€ P771ZM new laptop behaving erratically, underperforming. Any help appreciated.
Discussion in 'Sager and Clevo' started by ignorant, May 26, 2015.