A Sager RMA Story: Gambling With Reliability

TL;DR at the bottom HOWEVER I would highly suggest reading the whole post as there's a lot of detail.

(Laptop Model: NP9870-S)

First off before I start, I'd like to say outside of the issues below, the laptop has been simply amazing, I'd also like to say that I've heard amazing things and horrible things about Sager, in hindsight however, I would not purchase from them again.

My story starts off with my first RMA, this is probably the least exciting part:
First RMA: Fingerprint Reader Malfunction
Result: Fingerprint reader fixed, no further RMA needed.
This was the best experience I've had with a company when RMAing anything to them, they were very open with their communication, told me exactly what was replaced (The fingerprint reader obviously, but it was still a nice sentiment) and got it back to me in a timely manner. The one and only downside, I had to pay shipping costs, this bugs me when companies do this especially when the product is under warranty. Also they didn't put the keyboard screw that holds the keyboard in back, minor but still annoying.

After this RMA, everything was working great until about a December 2016:
Second RMA:
Issue 1: High thermals under idle conditions (comparing to my friends exact same sager) thermals on my laptop at stock clock were about 10c higher than his laptop at idle, under benchmark with Intel XTU at stock/default everything the laptop would thermal throttle vs my friends laptop which did not (both laptops purchased at the same time and received in the same box)

Issue 2: Webcam malfunctioning, giving error codes when running Windows 10 Camera App, when observing the device manager when the error occurred you could see the device manager refresh once when the error happened and again when the error disappeared. I tried reformating and reinstalling windows and drivers, this did not resolve the issue.

Issue 3: Keyboard screw not present, this isn't really an issue but I did want a COMPLETE laptop as I did pay $3000 for this laptop.

Issue 4: Random power off, laptop randomly powered off completely (no blue screen just suddenly off) while playing a game.

Result: Thermal paste replaced, bad stick of RAM was found (I replaced the ram with some GSKILL DDR4s since it was cheaper to go that route), Windows reinstalled as all cores were active no matter the power settings in windows.

Failed to Fix: Webcam issue, keyboard screw still missing.

New Issues: Battery is now suddenly at 50% of its designed capacity after a year, comparing against my friends laptop which is still at 100% designed capacity after the same amount of time under heavier use for gaming, battery is now discharging at a rate of 1% per minute (Note this could have been an issue pre RMA however I didn't even examine the batteries "life" until I noticed that it was dying extremely fast at work when I was on battery), windows freezing after initial start up (opening the start menu straight away after logging in results in a hang for around 2 minutes), also the touchpad drivers on the image the put on the laptop suck, completely and utterly terrible touchpad drivers, uninstalled and installed an older version as soon as I had the chance.

I'll give them points for this as the shipping was covered by them this time, and they did find a bad piece of RAM which MIGHT have contributed to the webcam acting up, they also did replace the thermal paste which did indeed solve the thermal throttling and heat issue. Upon opening the laptop to test the RAM they stated was bad in memtest, I noticed my keyboard screw still was not there my friend has one waiting for me however when I get the laptop back from the third RMA.

However, upon receiving the laptop, going through the set up process of windows, and testing the camera app, the webcam INSTANTLY started doing what the main point of the RMA was, the webcam did somehow stop getting errors constantly, but it still does sometimes which is annoying when I'm on skype chatting with friends and also when I go to take a picture for work when I've forgotten my cell phone. This also seems to be in correlation with (below) the laptop being powered on after being off for a while.

Also after using the laptop I noticed the battery charge was falling quite quickly, in just over an hour the windows indicated the laptop was at 10% charge, I plugged the laptop in, and downloaded a program to check the batteries designed capacity and its current help, this application indicated the battery was at 58% of its designed capacity, so it lost nearly 50% of its life over the course of a year under moderate use. I also experienced an issue the same night after unplugging the laptop to check to see how long the battery lasted by timing it, the charge jumped from 100% to 1% instantly and windows notified me and went to shutdown the laptop.

I've also noticed the fingerprint reader sometimes is still acting up sometimes after being powered off the laptop will start windows but fail to detect swipes and even sometimes the fingerprint reader all together only giving me the option to sign in via PIN or Password.

Laptop will now sometimes freeze after initial start up and login when opening the start menu, this causes a hang that lasts around 1-2 minutes. This COULD be their windows install but since they installed it, they are at fault here.

I've opened a 3rd RMA a week ago and shipped it today (I got snowed in) with comprehensive notes inside of the laptop (between screen and keyboard) with all of the above issues and details regarding them. However for a laptop I paid around $3000 I feel like I've been cheated, I can understand stuff goes bad, sometimes bad stuff passes QC and sometimes stuff just plain goes bad, but not fixing an issue even after me sending a video (I took before I RMA'd the laptop) of what exactly was happening and telling them how to reproduce it, and having that ignored/chalked up to a bad piece of RAM is just plain nonsense.

It's going to be a while before I get the laptop back and I'm not even sure it will be back and fully working this RMA or if its a motherboard issue that will take another RMA for them to replace. I still have 10 months of warranty remaining on the laptop so if this RMA doesn't fix the issues I'm going to keep sending it back until they do so that when it does go out of RMA it is in working order so I don't have to shell out more money to replace a laptop that really shouldn't need to be replaced this early in its lifetime, I have an ASUS I've given to my girlfriend that I bought around 4-5 years ago for half the price I spent on this Sager and it is still alive and kicking! The battery on it is almost shot but she uses and abuses that thing more than I ever did.

When I do get the laptop back I will most likely write a followup. The only good redeeming qualities are, after the first RMA they started paying shipping, and they seem like nice people, very communicative and gives you updates most of the time when not asked.

TL;DR: Bought a sager laptop a year ago already had to RMA it 2 times and its on its way in for its third for an issue that should have been and was reported as the main point for the second RMA. The battery has already reached 50% of its life, and they don't give you back your keyboard screw!

 

completely understandable, $3k isn't small amount of money, and its taking your effort and time.

sounds like super bad luck or lack of attention from rma team.
p770zm served me well while I had it.,..

 

@Meaker@Sager

 

Noted, following up

 

Thank you for taking time to contact me I appreciate it, I've sent you the information requested. I do very much appreciate this!

 

I am the friend who ordered the exact same laptop at the exact same time. We configured one through Xotic, changed the quantity to "2" and placed it in one order.

I think it may be worth clarifying that when Sager identified a bad stick of memory, they shipped the laptop back with three modules installed and the reported failed module in an anti-static bag. Ikith took the laptop out of the box from the RMA, hit power, and had the exact same camera issue on the three sticks that were identified as good. I came over to see the issue first hand, but when Ikith powered it on to show me, the camera symptom had stopped for the time being. I still had the memory sticks that came with our laptops which had been working fine for the ~1 year we've had these, so I suggested we trade memory. If I start having issues, the RAM is at fault. If he continues to have issues, clearly Sager's RMA had missed something. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe @ikith did indeed continue to have issues after swapping his memory for mine.

Personally, I wondered if this battery has been the cause of all these issues. Even on AC, I'm thinking wonky power = instability. I'm very curious to know how this turns out.

As for my Sager experience, it's been flawless. The only disappointing things are the lack of upgrade paths, which is the primary reason why Ikith and I went for Sager over any other brand. I was really hoping for a GTX 1080 upgrade kit, although I think I saw somewhere that the possibility hasn't been shot down yet. /fingerscrossed

 

Alright so here's an update to this:

I got my laptop back today from RMA, everything looks fine, except the LEDs on the keyboard and panel behind the screen are no longer working.

I've talked to Alan about this but I wanted to keep this up to date so people on this forum know what is going on etc.

@Meaker@Sager

Edit: After talking to Alan, he said it might just be simply turned off, he sent me some Key Combos to try to see if that was the case, which it wasn't basically trying the FN+Numpad keys to see if I could get the LEDs to come back on. Looks like this may be another RMA unless it's a BIOS issue as I've noticed that the new motherboard that they put in the laptop has a newer BIOS (Logo is way different).

 

What was the fingerprint malfunction in the first RMA? Was it not working completely or like sometimes not working after starting windows like in the second paragraph.

I have used 3 different laptops (2 HP and 1 Clevo) with fingerprints since 2008 and all 3 have the exact same issue as you wrote in second paragraph. Fingerprint stops working after starting windows and you have to use Password (in Windows Vista, 7, 10) or Pin (in Windows 10). It has to be a Windows issue. Otherwise, every fingerprint reader has a very high chance of the exact same hardware defect.

As for the defects with the Sager laptop, there is a reason they are selling laptops at a cheaper price compared to others. I highly doubt they are getting the laptop/parts at a lower price. They are doing less tests to the machine compared to the competitors. Higher chance of defects.

Good thing I refunded my Sager. The motherboard blew up after 3 RMAs. I used the laptop a total of 20 days.

 

The laptop completely stopped recognizing any and all fingerprints before the first RMA, the hardware was also not showing up in the Device Manager and when it would it would have a warning on said hardware saying it wasn't functioning.

 

Sounds like either a cable or the little daughter board may be loose or defective. You could check it out yourself, but it's a lot of work to get to said board.

 

Naw this was the first RMA that I had to do with sager, it's fixed by them at this point, I'm currently stuck with a nearly fully functioning laptop minus the KB and case LEDs not lighting at all. I can't really tell if its the new motherboard they put in per last RMA (detailed the issues for that one in the OP) or if its the new BIOS on the new motherboard. I'm working with Alan from sager on this to figure out what's going on or if I have to RMA it again so they can see what is going on.