AMD 7970m to nVidia 680m - Thank you Sager!!!

Hello,

Had Sager swap out the AMD 7970m for the nVidia 680m. Great service, very pleasant to work with and fast. As a first time Sager owner, I am very pleased and look forward to future Sager notebooks.

Speaking of fast, initial quick runs in BF3 Close Quarters, full 64 player server, in both Scrapmetal and Operation 925 gpu usage was mostly pegged at 99%....at times it'll drop to 97% or so, but NO WHERE near like it did with the Enduro enabled AMD 7970m where I would see it drop as low as the 60's with frame rates dipping into the 20's.

In fact, as soon as the map loaded and got in game, I was all smiles....the difference was immediate as well as night and day. Much, much smoother.

BF3 settings: all ultra/maxed, no deferred AA, no motion blur, vsync off.

I made sure to get to areas of the maps where I saw horrible usage and fps. In Operation 925 that would be in the area of flag point A. In that area, with the AMD 7970m I saw fps in the 20+. AND with the nVidia 680m, adjusting in game graphics settings that have frame rate impact like deferred AA, mesh, ambient occlusion and shadows....lowering these settings DO affect frame rates in a positive way while maintaining 99% gpu usage. With the AMD 7970m, lowering deferred AA (which has the most impact) will show gpu usage DROP. You can review this to see which settings affect frame rates: Optimize : Battlefield 3 Tweak Guide | GeForce

For those looking into Sager notebooks and/or doing your research, AND you are an avid gamer, the choice is obvious. If you have a strict budget you may have to select your options carefully, but the nVidia 680m should be chosen as part of your base setup, then choose other options from that point on.

I was a bit hesitant to take the plunge, but at the end it was worth it.

Just wanted to share my experience. I don't want to this thread to blow up into another rant session or what not, plenty of those, otherwise I'll delete. I figure for those suffering with the AMD 7970m, this could help. Does this mean I'll never buy AMD? Absolutely not. Fear 3 ran perfectly well with the AMD 7970m with gpu usage pegged at 99% nearly most of the time. But this is just one example...it's just not consistent with other games I own. So....for me...this time around, the green team won for me.

I'll update as time goes by.

update: Max Payne 3 and Crysis 2 all reporting max or near max gpu usage and MUCH, MUCH SMOOTHER game play. I stopped playing Crysis 2 because it was just unbearable with the AMD 7970m....gpu usage and framerates would drop during intense firefights or if the scene became more complex....in fact it was funny to watch the gpu usage increase when I look at the ground or right in front of a wall.

 

Good for you and congrats. I did the same thing. Swap out the 7970m for the 680m. However, I won't be able to test my computer until next week, since I'm out of town.

 

Unfortunately I am past my 30 days, so I am pretty much stuck.

 

We can only hope for the rest of us, that AMD delivers on Enduro 5.5. Hopefully on Enduro 5.5 will be smarter with power source so it will run dGPU dedicated on A/C.

 

You can do the swap after 30 days.

Just tell them that your 7970M is faulty, which it is.

 

Congrats, probably it was your best choice now instead of waiting for AMD to patch Enduro.
However the 7970M is still a quite attractive option because of it's price and if one checks the problematic games before buying, and they only play a few of them, there won't be many problems with it (BF3 being the most popular game with Enduro issues for example).

 

either that or if ure an HM user without IGP :laugh::tongue:

 

I tried this with Malibal, they said no.

If there's a boutique or a reseller out there who wants my money and my 7970M for a 680M, let me know! LOL.

 

if u can, just buy a 680m, swap it out with the 7970m and sell that card either on ebay or on the nbr marketplace

 

Try taking with Mythlogic, I'd bet they would do it in a heart beat. Good luck!

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

 

Thanks for the suggestion guys. I considered eBay but the hassle and the fees on top of the uncertainty my card would sell is a turn off. Dealing with a builder or reseller is just so much easier and they can put more pressure on AMD with all the returns.

I'll try Mythologic a little later.

 

Same here.... last time i ever buy Malibal

 

Yeah, definitely depends on the reseller. I was over my 30 days and I was able to do the swap with Mythlogic.

 

But you bought your laptop from them to begin with, right?

 

Can any one quickly explain why you would not be able to get your money back from the reseller for a faulty product? They, in turn, should be able to get their money back for the faulty cards as well.

 

It's not faulty. It still works. It's just not working at 100%. There are people that are completely unaware that the 7970M has issues.

Unless the product is defective, resellers can't get a return if it's 30 days past the purchase, unless the manufacturer makes an exception. When they look at the percentage of sales versus the percentage of complaints and returns it's not a defect; it's a fluke.

 

When I buy a product and it is said to perform as XYZ by the manufacturer, and it doesn't do those things... then I didn't get what I paid for and should be entitled to a refund. Just seems like buying a TV where the manufacturer says it can display 2 channels at once. After unboxing and setting it up, a month later I try to use it and the feature doesn't work. I would be entitled to a repair, if there is something broken, or a refund if the feature is missing.

 

A flying Bison!

Your expectations of performance are founded in reviews and benchmarks from 3rd parties, not from AMD or Clevo. The simple fact is, the product functions as designed, and therefore is not faulty or defective.

Unfortunately, you're not entitled to anything other than support and repair within your warranty period. What is broken, and what feature is missing?

Show of hands, who bought the AMD 7970M, a 100w dedicated GPU, because it has Enduro?

 

Mythlogic builds the computer and slap their name on it. That's why they can do the swap after 30 days (and willing to do so). Kudos to them for taking care of their customer.

 

I'm one of those people. Ok, I'm aware of the issues due to this forum, but I'm not one who does benchmarking on my laptop, nor do I play a wide variety of the latest games. My 7970m equipped Sager does an awesome job of playing Minecraft and running Premiere Pro. Both are buttery smooth & fast. I love it. And I'm hopeful that by the time I move on to a game that has or would have had issues, they will have updates that make all this drama moot.

That said, I understand and sympathize with folks who shelled out a considerable amount of money for something that apparently needed a little more time in the oven. I hope a fix comes soon.

 

You forgot to mention the 7970M promos before it was released how the graph shows it's up to 50% faster on certain games than the old generation 6990M, well the truth is with enduro crippling it it performs worse than the 6990m and that sounds like false advertising to me unless the product is faulty.

 

Unfortunately in it's current state, it is defective and does not perform as advertised by AMD. Enduro is broken. Enduro doesn't even recognize when a 3D game is running unless creating a custom profile for it, which is just laughably pathetic on their part.

And yes I did buy it for Enduro. If I knew it was broken this much, I would have gone with 680M. At this point with the technology available, having a powerful GPU with switchable tech for battery life, should be a standard and expected. AMD was too stupid to not have beaten Nvidia when they had the tech in development longer. AMD management just baffles me and their stocks shows for it.

And I think it's shameful that a reseller has the attitude that you have. You should be on our side, your customers forked over huge sums of money and you should be an advocate of theirs. I'd expect you'd be giving Sager feedback and pushing for a fix. Not telling the customer they are wrong and should not have been expecting the hardware to run as it should. That's just really weird to me. Makes no sense.

 

I bought this laptop because I travel with it. My Asus G73jh did not have very good battery life at all. Switchable graphics is an awesome thing to have. I like being able to run off the battery when needed to present something off the hdmi to the tv, knowing my battery won't die too soon, like my G73jh.

I was rarely on this forum (5 posts over the 1.5 years I had my G73jh) and I knew something was up when I started playing BF3 with the AMD 7970m so I started lurking around here. I thought I could get away with decent framerates with at least all medium settings with no deferred AA, no motion blur and no vsync, knowing I'd be playing at 1920x1080 vs 1600x900 (G73jh).

Remember, in a traditional setup, reducing graphics settings always yields frame rate improvements, this was not so much the case with the AMD 7970m. With my G73jh, I played BF3 in a window and I experienced smoother game play with all settings to high, mesh set to low, shadows set to low, no deferred AA, no motion blur, and no vsync. I duplicated those settings when I had my 7970m and experienced very little improvement, while watching GPU usage DROP. This card is TWO generations ahead.

In Ziba Tower (BF3 Close Quarters), after you die (which happens a lot, lol), when you see the scoreboard I see frames in the mid to high 20's to low 30's, through the in game fps meter with my 7970m. I'm pointing out this particular example because in this instance you see a large open area of the map, with lots of activity....explosions, players moving around etc. Same full, 64 player server, with my nVidia 680m, same example, after you die, watching the scoreboard overlay with all the action behind it, my fps is in the 50's.

I was a bit shocked being a rep from the reseller I bought my laptop from to read what you posted. I was relatively quiet about this whole issue over these forums, and somewhat excited of a "fix" after reading the AnandTech article, but I really had to respond to what you had posted.

And for that you lose your sig pic and I will adjust my reviews accordingly. I do thank Donald tremendously for accommodating my shipping requirements.

"What is broken?" Turn off PowerPlay and play a game....tell me what GPU is being used. Use factory provided Clevo packaged drivers. No game I tested with my nVidia 680m gave me that stupid dialog box asking me which GPU I want to use. With the AMD 7970m, Max Payne 3, first time loading it up, went through the iGPU....so did BF3, ARMA2, so did Grid, Crysis 2, MSI Kombuster...I could go on. How do you expect an end user to load up a game, only to have it run through the iGPU...get angry because it runs like crap....quit the game and then get that dialog box.

As far as I can tell, I can't fault Sager or Clevo, as my nVidia 680m works. The smoother game play I am experiencing is indisputable.

Hey Sha7bot, "what feature is missing?" How about the product actually working.

 

I do not intend to talk about the 7970M, I think over the past couple months everything that can be said about the issue has been said.
And I am happy that the OP to this thread is happy with his laptop. That's what it is all about. Some were able to get satisfaction under the 30 day limit. Some of us had to spend several hundred dollars after 30 days to get satisfaction. Some are not so fortunate and have to wait, and hope, their laptop will get a fix to make their experience a happy one.

I agree totally with SStaged. I really don't want to ever talk about a 7970M again. I'm waiting for a replacement GPU to be shipped to me. What I will say is that I will always remember the reseller in this thread who didn't go to bat for their customer. You will never see my money in the future. And I will always remember the reseller who helped me on this board to be happy with my laptop. They will get my money in the future on my next laptop.

That's what this is all about. Customer service and satisfaction, because the simple fact of the matter is the reseller, or any business for that matter, needs our money more than we need their particular product.

 

I understand as a reseller this is a stance you have to take, but you cannot tell me that currently 7970m is performing as intended. As AMDs mobile "flagship" card its being outperformed by previous gen cards (6990m,6970m, gtx 580m) in multiple games for one. This is not what I paid money for, in my eyes the product has a design flaw at the moment that severely affects its use where its main purpose is concerned - gaming.

 

Although I personally am a customer of the reseller this rep belongs to, and primarily only have good things to say about them and their support (at least as far as quick helpful e-mail correspondence is concerned, which is the famous Donald's territory), it does seem to me from prior correspondence that their view -and I was made to believe it was most resellers' view as well- is that we're all just whiners and that forums are always filled with whine fests. I found that a little annoying but I didn't want to get into a debate with the guy who will ship me my laptop overseas.

I think some issues are definitely just whining. Like before the Enduro issue gained widespread recognition, many people complained about GPU temperatures. I repeat, they weren't complaining about OVERheating, just the temperatures being too high for what they think it should be. So yeah, after 15 minutes of Kombustor which is a synthetic stressor that will never be replicated by a game, going up to 95 celsius (stock paste and everything) when the auto-throttle/shutdown limit is 110 celsius is NOT a "heating/cooling issue". Yes it can be made better with DIY mods here and there but it is within range and doesn't impede performance and never reaches that in actual real-life scenarios.

However the Enduro issue is a real deal. Reps rolling their eyes at us and calling us whiners and wanting us to just go roll over and take it, is not the kind of attitude I want nor expect from a reseller. Yes, I paid premium money for a premium product and premium performance. I'm not getting that. These are not synthetic benchmarks, or unaffecting of performance. It's not like the ideal fps is 120 and we're getting 113. It should be in the 50s in X game and is actually in the 20s-30s, that's essentially when you begin noticing slowed frame rates and the stuttering.

What I don't understand is that resellers have 3 possible positions. Either ignore it, side with AMD or side with the customers, and I don't get why resesllers still choose to support AMD when the issue of Enduro (With all GCN cards) is so blindingly obvious. I mean if Sager did that I'd understand since they wouldn't want to off AMD, but a two bit reseller somewhere in the deserts of Nevada is gonna get legally prosecuted by AMD if one of their reps recognizes the issue and hopes AMD picks up the ball? What are they gonna do? Ask Sager not to supply them with AMD GPUs anymore?

How about a statement like this: "We are aware of the Enduro underutilization issue and whereas we are fully pursuing recourse with our suppliers and AMD, we cannot as of yet RMA your cards or provide driver support without manufacturer involvement and coordination...etc"? It condemns AMD, gives lip service to your customers and absolves you from any financial losses.

This is the 21st century pal, you can't sell junk and ask people to put up and shut up.

 

At first I shrugged at this post as I considered it just the normal sass from yet another forum goer, but if you're a retailer then that's quite an unwise post. Aggravating a chunk of your potential customers is not what I would call good business logic.

Familiar with: "A good name is better than good oil"? Yeah, well, I hope you enjoy your oil, because you just turned your company to a nice, fluffy little wicker man for the Enduro issue.

 

To be fair, the other reps from the company have usually informative and "community-inspired" things to say, but this Sha7bot guy seems to have a habit of .... well sometimes just volunteering false information about fields he purportedly knows quite a bit about.

You have this gem as an example:

That's a bit like a human rights delegation from the U.N visiting a North Korean prison, and coming out with the conclusion that the human rights situation is "very dire" only for the NK government to respond that the delegation's conclusion is worthless because it's "third party" with its own expectations and only North Korean norms and regulations are to be held as true & factual.

The WHOLE POINT behind 3rd party reviews and benchmarks is to provide an independent testing platform to assess companies' claims about their products If we just took AMD's word for it they can make out current 7970M performance to actually be "Exceeding" of expectations

Even AMD recognizes that and pays a lot of attention to the cyber noise about them and the 3rd party reviews or else they wouldn't have asked Sager to close the original logging threads here. More royalist than the King much?

 

Well its rather weird that other resellers let their customers to make the switch while others do not. People should take note of the resellers who had their customers' best interests and the continuity of their own business in mind, and also those who only care about immediate cash flow...

 

Refer to my post above. I'm a customer of Powernotebooks and although I'm one of the more vocal members about the 7970M issue, I can honestly say that they're a good company. This guy's title might be representative, but he's certainly not acting it as far as my interaction with them has been.

Also, I don't think we should immediately jump to punishing them for speaking their mind. He didn't actually say that his company wouldn't switch your 7970M for a 680M for a reasonable fee. He just shared his opinion -as weakly founded as it is- as an IT con/prosumer. It enriches the discussion.

 

this is actually GOOD NEWS, resellers trying to defend themselves (mostly their pockets) and posting out of "rage of the moment".
Its good news because it means they are over their limits of receiving complaints and refund requests.... so even if this turd posts here trying to convince himself its not a faulty card, the evidence will crush him down (or its company)..
In cases like this it always starts with intermediates saying its not their fault or that there is no problem, and ends up with a government order to refund/compensate their customers.
IF, and i dont think it wont, the enduro issue is not fixed in a 70 or 90%, i even foresee a massive hardware swap by AMD, this isnt so far off, it has happened with cars, so why would it not happen with a graphics card?

Sit and tremble sha7bot, and if you dont have anything smart or customer oriented to say you better stay silent as AMD is...

Well if you need any HARD EVIDENCE, lowering graphics requirements and NOT getting any improvements whatsoever IS DEFECTIVE! Here and in timbuctú for god sakes sha7bot..............

RIGHT, well it aint so weird, its just some resellers are too dumb, too slow, or too poor to aknowledge the issue and make the proper compensations to their customers...
They will come around if this thing doesnt get fixed soon with AMD new drivers, either that or corporate doom...

 

For the record, I dont own a 7970m. I just really dont understand.

 

then i really don t understand why the hell u replied here...

Now im in contact with my local reseller, they at first didn t know/didn t want to recognize the well know Enduro issue, then i sent them a couple of links and explained in a detailed mail what was going on. From then they told me they are waiting for an AMD official reply. Now, despite what u guys say/think, i fear AMD will never fix this issue, it might be easier/faster/cheaper for them to jump to the next technology and ignore us customers......

Personally i want to wait this october, and then ill try to contact my reseller and ask for a swap to the 680M, even if i have to pay more then 300 for it. If i don t do that i just wasted 1700 USD on a faulty PC, i prefer to invest 300 more to have a valied PC instead.

Hopefully they will understand my point, and will let me do that. One thing is sure, eitherway i ll never ever buy AMD anymore, and i really hope AMD is reading these forums, and everywhere online, cause they have to know what custeomers think about them right now...

 

well... at least you can overclock your 7970m... i'm still stuck at stock speed and no oc-method has worked so far. still showing 0/0 in afterburner when OC is enabled and can't slide the values

 

you need to wake the card before launching afterburner. start kombustor, then launch afterburner.

 

We have upgraded 2 systems with the 7970M to the 680M and have given a full refund on 1 system. We've shipped over 100. The 3 systems in question were good faith efforts and we were not bound by any legal implications.

The point of my comments was to illustrate that the card is not defective and is not eligible for return or refund.

Neo, every comment of mine can be substantiated. Do your research.

We are in no way angry or flustered with the Enduro issue. I'm here as a presence for the lurkers.

 

I will get the GT70 soon with the 680M. I`m going to try the K4000M and see if my MSI reckognize it. If it does and its working properly I might sell my 680M. Just a headsup

 

That saddens me that you are not upset that you are selling a product that is defective.

And extremely upsetting that you won't recognize the product doesn't perform as advertised. It's just bizarre to me.

 

So ... Sha7bot, suppose I wanna switch the 7970M for 680M how much would you charge me?

 

Go read this thread. It's not defective. I understand it's a legitimate complaint and AMD might have a driver at the end of this month to fix it.

We're not selling a defective product and I stand by that statement 100%. I have cautioned buyers of these issues and redirected buyers, based off their needs towards other alternatives.

You'll need to contact our sales department NeoCzar. There is no way I can give a quote over a forum thread... Nice try though

 

As always, it depends on your definition of defective. For computer hardware, the software is just as important as the hardware to the functioning of the unit. Hardware + software = user experience. With either element missing, the user experience suffers. Imagine having a piece of software in an automobile (so many in today's cars...) malfunction. Now the car cannot exceed a certain speed. The car's hardware is intact, certainly, but at what point is the car defective? When it can't exceed 100 mph? 60 mph? 30? 15? Is a car limited to 15 mph by a software glitch "functional?" If it isn't functional, what is it? Broken? Defective, perhaps?

I understand your point: the hardware is not defective because installing it in an un"chained" laptop shows its full capabilities. However, you are creating a false dichotomy by separating a piece of hardware from its software (which, btw, it absolutely requires in order to function). What if someone sold you a TV that, because of a software error, could only display two channels on DirecTV? What should everyone who purchased the TV do: switch to Comcast? What if Comcast does not serve someone's area? Too bad for that customer?

 

Even as i dont agree to most of your statements, i do think your posts are another brick in the "its a drivers issue" wall of hope i am trying to build.
I would like you to comment if you have talked with AMD representatives about the incoming fix to this "non defective" GPU underutilization issue. You can be vague if you like, but any news is good news for now.

regards
Voz

 

I love these analogies. Neo compares this to human rights violations. In your own words Neo, "Stop being so melodramatic."

Let me draw a comparison of my own. When Battlefield 3 and Rage were first released they were unplayable unless you had an Xbox or PS3. How many people demanded a refund for that game or their video cards? Practically no one because they waited for a patch.

Yes, you all have been waiting for a patch for several months, but this isn't a simple software rewrite, and they need to go into hundreds of games to fix them. They also need to test for a long time to ensure they don't introduce a new bug.

The product works, and it does what it was intended to do. Render 3D graphics. AMD says, "Up to 40% faster than the 6990M," and this is true in many circumstances. Try and upgrade through you reseller. Try and get a refund through your reseller. It never hurts to ask, but don't demand action claiming "False Advertisement" or "You sold me a defective product." This is just plain false.

You have this perception that your reseller lied, stole your money, and is telling you, "Good Luck." The same resellers that are advocating on your behalf with the manufactures to get a fix, looking for a work-around, and posting solutions and updates here. We could stand back and say or do nothing like AMD and Clevo, or I can post here and make ya'll mad. j/k

 

EHMMMMMMMMM well, thats not the case, the resellers have been mostly quiet in this whole issue, only as late we are seeing them come around, mostly mythlogic and now you.

as i said before your comments seem to implie that you contacted AMD on our behalf? Is that true?? can you provide any hints or quotes of their answer?

What really has people going here is the lack of official reseller stance, and mostly official AMD stance.

regards
Voz.

 

I can't post our discourse with the manufactures as I'm not authorized to speak on their behalf. I can tell you that a Beta CCC driver is in the works with performance enhancements.

 

how much longer?, been playing a 2010 game @30fps for awhile, no diff than my old 3650 Lol

 

What F are you smoking? BF3 was "unplayable"? First of all the first patch was released to all 3 platforms, but initially on the PC because of the certification process for the consoles. Secondly, I played BF3 from beta days on my G73jh with the 5870m, had a blast and pre-ordered the full game. AMD did subsequently release a driver update to improve BF3 performance, but prior to that it wasn't "unplayable". Thirdly, of the 224+ hours I've logged with BF3, the majority of it was on my Asus G73jh with the 5870m. Again, playing at all medium, no deferred AA, no vsync, no motion blur, mesh and shadows set to low...yes lowering the settings really helps with my frame rates with the 5870m....you know, like it does with MY 680M. To use an absolute term such as unplayable is just really ignorant. Countless full servers prior to the first major patch really must have meant it was unplayable. Do you even play the game?

I'm not new to gaming or even system building for that matter. I go way back to Duke Nukem 3D, as well as competitive gaming...so I've been around when it came to my 1-2 year video card upgrades (or mobo/cpu/mem etc), drivers, patching etc for my desktops.

I have no comment to the rest of your babble other than Sager/Clevo is not at fault because my 680m WORKS.

 

Lol, you totally just dedicated one whole angry post to take a shiit on sha7bot for saying the word "unplayable."

The amount of crap sha7bot takes in this forum is beyond belief.

 

he's fightin' the good fight, man. he has me starting to believe this really is more of an intel, and by proxy clevo, issue more than an amd issue. and i'm a completely neutral observer. up till i saw the technical explanations for the first time today, i would have agreed the card was defective. is it not true that alienware users are experiencing way less issue, or am i mistaken on this? then again, to an extent amd should be under some obligation to give builders/manufacturers a heads up on something this.

 

his "technical explanations" have been rebuked multiple times as bs in that same thread. honestly, as a re-seller its very much in his best interest to convince people to calm down about the product they are selling. If he can spread the blame on multiple factors you cannot return 7970m as faulty. If AMD card is at fault then one could argue he is selling a faulty product, hence headache for him.