Admitting defeat?

So..I bought an external USB keyboard for my 5793 today. I got it for a few reasons. First of all, this is going to be my laptop for school, and I leave in less than two weeks. It will be nice to have a permanent desk arrangement with a full-sized keyboard sitting around. It's also nice that it's got a bunch of media control buttons on it etc. But I know deep in my heart that the main reason I got it is because I'm still frustrated by the issues I have from time to time with the response rate on my integrated keyboard. (Disabling the trackpad from the control panel doesn't really make any difference.) With the USB keyboard, however, because it communicates with the mainboard via a different port, has no such issues. (Hence, I feel that I am admitting defeat to myself by using it.)

I remember a while back there was some discussion on the boards about maybe petitioning Sager to release some sort of revision which would make it so that the keyboard would be the last thing to lose responsiveness as the result of interference from the trackpad, or fan operation software, or whatever the leading theory was. If there are still any other users who experience this issue, regardless of its severity, I think it would be cool to see it get off the ground. I can't remember who it was, but I remember there being talk of a certain user who had had experience with organizing such action, and had gotten some results in the past. Is this figure still around? Anyway, if this is still an issue of concern to some Sager users, I think it would be nice if we could get organized and ask their famous CS for some help...otherwise, and if I'm the only one bothered by this, I'll probably just be quiet.

 

I can use USB keyboards fine.

Is yours not even functional in Windows?

 

lol. you must have skimmed that gophn. I dont think i was around when this discussion occured but I plan on eventually getting something like the G11 keyboard eventually anyways

 

I think you misunderstood what I wrote. It's not that my USB keyboard isn't working (it works 100%)...it's the reason why i'm using it. The response rate on my laptop's integrated keyboard can be crappy some of the time, resulting in unregistered keystrokes. My m15x had this problem really badly, which is why I wound up returning it. It's nowhere near that bad on the 5793, but it's still frustrating to see it on two computers in a row, and it's just generally an annoyance.

 

hmm...the g11 looks pretty tight. Is that the one that can supposedly register as many simultaneous keystrokes as there are keys on the keyboard? lol...the one i'm using is just a cheapo Dynex...but it's doing what I wanted...and it's slim/light for travel.

 

hah. not too sure about all the specs on it. Just know it has a lot of buttons and media buttons which is really nice. I know that razer has some really really good keyboards. but you pay a premium for them.

 

Driver issues? A lot of times we just take for granted that if you just plug in keyboard it works automaticly. What it does is just go to default windows driver. If you are running Vista and our keyboard is an XP default you may need to load that disc that came with it.

I am also finding out that if you have too many USB's in use it causes a power drain on those that need the power (ie keyboard). If you have like an external HD in one and the keyboard in the other try unpluging the HD and see if that makes a difference.

 

Very Strange, does it still happen in safe mode?

edit: have you tried reseating the keyboard cable?

 

I would think it might be the keyboard's cable... or its firmware.

Have you also tried using the keyboard in a different OS environment... or even the BIOS?

 

I remember the discussion about keyboard problems that Callidor is referring to; I believe that there was a similar problem on the D901C, but that that was fixed with a revised KBC firmware.

As Callidor said, in both cases the problem appears to lie in the fact that the keyboard controller and the fan controller (because the fans can be controlled from the keyboard) run through the same IC on the motherboard, and that this can cause problems with the keyboard buffer overflowing if the user is typing quickly.

However, I don't know if anyone ever tried changing the size of the keyboard buffer in the Win Registry - if the problem is in the hardware, this change probably wouldn't have any effect, but it might be worth a try if it hasn't been tried before.

If anyone wants to try it, the specific registry key is:
HKLM\System\CurrentControlSet\Services\Kbdclass\Parameters

The registry entry in that key is:
KeyboardDataQueueSize

which is type REG_DWORD

The default value is, apparently, 0x64, as stated in this Windowsnetworking.com article. Another article I came across is this article from PCTools.com.

 

I have seen this issue, most of the time it is a defective or faulty keyboard. Try changing that out once. If you need one, I usually have U.S. keyboards leftover from swaps for overseas notebooks ($30). If it doesn't fix it, ship it back and I'll refund you minus the shipping like seven bucks or something.

 

Cant help with your actual issue, seeing as i know nothing and dont have my laptop yet Although im typing on a G11 right now, and it is AMAZING. It never misses a beat and has some great features. Although it CANT type two letters at the same time (ie holding down N and T at the same time), where my bothers razer lycosa can (Although i dont like typing on it). Having used both tho, i think they are two GREAT gaming keyboards.

 

You seem to know much more about this than I do..what do you think I should try changing the value to? Is there any harm that could be done by messing with this that simply changing it back couldn't fix? Also, I doubt its a faulty keyboard, mostly due to the fact that it's consistently worse in some programs/environments vs. others.

Also, I remember with my m15x, the problem would go away completely if I would uninstall the Synaptics trackpad drivers. I haven't yet tried that on this computer, but let's suppose for a minute that that's true in this case too. If changing this registry value would fix the problem if it were caused by fan software, would it fix it if it was caused by the trackpad?

EDIT: shyster, i took a look at one of your links, and tried doubling the value as it suggested. I can't say for certain yet, but i do think there is a noticeable improvement. I am going to have to do further and more thorough testing with it later, but in the mean time, have yourself some rep. I do not think it has completely solved the problem, but I certainly think it's made it distinctly less of a problem. Thanks for your brilliant research. In the mean time, it's 5am...time for some sleep. I'll check this out some more in the morning.

Oh yeah also...what negative repercussions could there be for cranking this value way up? Basically, why isn't it always set to the highest capacity it can handle by default?

 

This is very interesting Shyster1, I will be trying it out on my m15x when I get home from work!

Keep us updated Callidor how it goes with your keyboard lag aswell, I am very interested if this would work for m15x users.

 

get the razer lycosa keyboard, its pretty awesome, but youre essentially paying a premium for the brandname and flashy looks

 

is this really a hardware defect? or is it just normal? coz i know razer has 10keys max anti-ghosting, but isn't there at least more than 2 keys of anti-ghosting on the 9262? its built for more than single-keystroke office-style typing yeah?? but apparantly i only seem to be able to press 2 keys max at the same time. the 3rd key doesn't register..

 

I remember you mentioning this issue from all the way back, Callidor. But I never get it.... having the same laptop (both me and my friend) as you, but no such problem....
Running Vista SP1 x64.

 

This is the tip Shyster gave in registry script form (read double click and it's done). After going to the link and reading both of them, I wrote this script to double the buffer (as stated). Download, unzip and double click and you're done.

​

 

I don't know too much about registry editing. Before this, I've only ever used it to tweak some game settings...so my question is..if changing it from (100) to (200) improved my problem, is there any reason I can't change it to 7 trillion and just be done with it? In all seriousness, is there a maximum value, and what are the possible negative consequences of using it? Why would it ever be limited?

 

Is it any good? As in, have you noticed differences? I`m too lazy to power on the RU at the moment to try it

 

From what I can tell, I think I've noticed an improvement...not a solution. I want to try maybe cranking the value a little higher, but I'm afraid of what that might do. I'm also worried that I may just be seeing the same failure ratio, but interpreting it more optimistically due to a placebo effect.

 

You`ll never know until you try it.
Go ahead!

 

cranked it up to (300). think I'm seeing still further improvement. Won't somebody please tell me what I'm risking by setting this value higher than what it's intended!? (the article said "don't set it too high..try doubling it"...and i've tripled it)

 

Why not contact Sager, and get cross-shipped a new keyboard.

 

I'd suggest getting a cross shipped KB too, it might just be your KB after all. Try different ones, then experiment with the settings.

 

I'm wary to try that. When I had this problem on my m15x, i sent it in for repairs and they swapped it. i got it back and it had the same problem. now, seeing that this registry tweak seems to be making a difference, i really don't think it's an issue with defective hardware...if it was, this would be making no difference, ya?

 

You do not send in your entire system.... just the keyboard.

 

NO. JUST THE KEYBOARD dude.
Contact them and tell them your KB is acting up, they`ll ship you a new KB while you send back yours (cross shipped).

 

I understand, but it's just kind of a bit of a fuss to go through right now...considering i'm moving to campus in a week and a half and everything...going through a lot of mailing and shipping would kinda just add to my stress.

 

It take 2-3 BDs ... so better do it now.
A new KB cannot be worse than what you have. Or maybe you`ll get a certified refurb(most likely).

 

Anyone that downloads that registry script and wants to modify it, once it is unzipped:

• Right click the file, choose edit and it should open in NotePad (or you can just open it in Notepad).
• change the value like Callidor has done here to increase it. I think I had set it at double or 128.
• Save the file and overwrite.
• Double click to run.

 

I have just tried the registry update that KillerNotebooks gave out and it seems to be working for me! I cannot tell you how happy I am with it, but if anything wrong should happen, I will let you all know!

 

Thanks, glad it worked!

 

Do you have to restart the computer after doing it. Because, after a while, it started messing up again and now that I have restarted it, it is working flawlessly.

 

Yes, you need to restart before the changes can take effect...I'm still trying to determine whether doubling the value is making it better for me or if I'm just imagining it...it definitely isn't "flawless"...improved, if anything.

 

Well, I am a little indifferent as right now the keyboard isn't responding to the treatment, but all of last night it was working fine...

However, it could just be because I have the Unreal Editor open at the moment.

 

I say send in the keyboard, that is probably what it is.

 

God, I really hope not. I just got this computer and I don't want to have to use an external keyboard at the moment.

 

Maybe they can bill your CC, send you one and you can send the old one back to them, when they get it refund your card. Try to explain the situation, maybe there is something they can do for you.

 

what laptop are you using, thabass?

 

Sorry, I have been away for a while. I am running the Alienware m15x. Just bought it like two weeks ago.

Also, the script does work, just in pairs. Like some times it will work just fine, and other times it will give off some lag.

Edit: Holy crap, that linking is cool.