An open-ended topic/question on the P270WM and Sandy Bridge/E/Ivy Bridge/E

Hi,

My Sager recently suffered multiple organ failure (from the carnage and the stream of BSOD's, RAID/AHCI BIOS flips, failed boots, freezes, checkdisks, clicks, cascades and so on I am guessing the hard drives, RAM, maybe battery and maybe even the motherboard, though with nVidias touchy drivers I can't be sure about the GPU either, are in some varying states of disrepair), coincidentally only a few weeks after the warranty ran out, and yes, only a day before BF3 came out. A day. I downloaded it on Origin, restarted, and then spent the next 10 hours squeezing every last drop out of my ESATA and USB 3.0 to move 1.5TB of (admittedly not entirely previously backed up) data. Somewhere Edward Murphy (or whomever) is smiling. Castigate me for poor maintenance, but frankly, I'm surprised it lasted this long. I ordered it from the USA and had it delivered to the Middle East where I was was working at the time and I think it had already surpassed its safe temperatures even during transit. Anyone who has ever been in the desert knows the feeling of really hot and dry stinging metal that is never a good sign. Note, do not order custom laptops to desert climates in the middle of summer. Although I could repair and upgrade it, after figuring out what went wrong, the cost differential between doing so and purchasing a new system that I can trust is negligible enough to push me to purchase new. Also, frankly, I'd like to get a new computer. I use the laptop for gaming and business workstation functions (nothing too heavy), but mostly for gaming.

I should mention, before the following, that I use the terms LGA 2011 and X79 as if they mean the same thing, though they don't, because I understand the X79 is the only currently known (that I know of) chipset to implement LGA 2011 and will be used in the P270WM. So most of the time I mean the X79 when I say LGA 2011, I'm just thinking about it in terms of 2011 vs 1155 not X79 vs P67/Z68/x.

I've been doing my research as much as possible, reviewing the upcoming products from Clevo and Intel and nVidia and so on, as well as the LGA 2011 vs LGA 1155. From what I can see there are no LGA 1155 socket/chipsets/mobos currently available for laptops (no P67 or Z68 et cetera, the mobile Sandy Bridge microprocessors use something called a G2 socket) and no news/information on their being so in the future - this is a bit of a shame because LGA 1155 seems to have fairly good scalability in the future for Ivy Bridge and currently supports the 2600/2700 processors which from all reviews seem excellent - I'm even considering my first desktop in 12 years because of them and the performance/price of an LGA 1155 setup. I don't pretend to have a perfect understanding of the nexus and inter-relationships between sockets/chipsets/motherboards/processors, so please take all of this from a layman's point of view. The successor to the successor of my current NP 9280, the current x7200/NP 7280 (which I understand, as an X58/LGA 1366 is nearing its EOL) is the P270WM, to be released variously Q4 2011/Q1 2012 by Clevo/Sager and associated resellers. I am looking for a 17 inch laptop, despite the weight and power bricks and so on, and am not a fan of Dell/Alienware in any event - I liked the M6400 but they're discontinued and Dell's laptops don't seem to have progressed very far from that, still expensive and not measuring the performance of Clevo. Not a console fan either and I move around enough that a desktop won't do for me either.

I am not really concerned about waiting right now for Ivy Bridge or Kepler or King's Crest or anything like that, I know new tech is always around the corner and you'll end up waiting forever for the next/better thing, and I am not waiting until March/April 2012 to be out for action (currently on an ominously clicking Dell M4400) nor for BF3, MW3, FIFA (I know, but I'm a soccer fan), Arkham City and Skyrim Especially not Skyrim. So I am looking at a laptop purchase (hopefully) before the end of the year and with the screen size and performance requirements that I'd like, the P270WM is the one I'd like to go for. And yes, it is partly bragging rights and benchmarks, I've accepted this fault in my character long ago. My concern, however, is the future scalability of the LGA 2011 socket, if indeed it has any. For example, is it true that Ivy Bridge-E processors will also work on the LGA 2011. Is there anything about LGA 2011 that will hinder future GPU/RAM upgrades? I don't mean small stuff like it won't support some boutique RAM manufacturer, I mean larger 'limiting factor' things like engineering standards and so on, something that you'd call a brick wall, not a narrowing lane. I've read that it will support SATA-III and I know to watch out for Sandforce controllers for SSD's on Clevo/Sager machines, and the X79 motherboard will limit which processors I can put in the machine (two non-server models, as of the moment, the 3930 and the 3960) at least at the moment, but other than that I'm not sure if I am making a mistake in going for an LGA 2011 now that won't go anywhere regardless of how long I keep it/working, or going for a slightly lower-performance G2 socket mobile-purposed now, or waiting a bit and seeing what Clevo/Sager do with Ivy Bridge. With the advances coming in the future, can I expect a P270WM to continue performing from a gaming point of view for 2+ years (into 2014) or not?

I know that this is a broad question and so I mean the thread more as a conversation piece than a direct appeal for information. And I also know that some of the answers to the above can be found in individual threads on this board, I have been reading and considering them, I just wanted to put the question my own way and sort of think it out myself. My next laptop purchase, minus future upgrades will hopefully be my last for at least two years at top performance and at the prices they come at I'd like to make sure that I am making the right decision. Any opinions on how Ivy Bridge will be integrated into future Clevo/Sager laptops, have I made any glaring errors in the above, anything else that I should take into account, et cetera? In case you're wondering (and why would you), the setup that I am looking at is non-RAID (10 years of bad luck with Seagate, RAID-0 and even RAID-1) 250 GB SSD Primary HD (whichever is offered, Intel or Crucial et cetera), then maybe a velociraptor WD Secondary HD and maybe a WD Caviar as the 3rd HD, 12-16 GB of hopefully 1600Mhz Tri-Channel RAM (I know the LGA 2011 can take Quad Channel but I don't know anyone who makes it or if it will even be offered, or what quad channel ram is), no 40-in-1 memory card of bluetooth or webcam, stock networking card and CD/DVD/BR drive (I haven't used the optical drive in over 2 years, I'm not even sure if I can order it without). The one thing I haven't figured out is the GPU. Price vs performance, single vs dual, SLI vs whatever isn't SLI. I've taken a look at the models available as well as the future models/architectures and I'm still undecided about it. I don't want a GPu bottleneck which by all accounts is more likely than a CPU bottleneck or even a RAM bottleneck as long as you configure correctly, so I am looking at a 500-series card (not a fan of AMD), but beyond that I haven't decided.

Anyway, thanks in advance and have a good day.

 

That is one monster post. Alright, I'll try to itemize the answers to your questions; top to bottom.

1. LGA2011/X79 is also known as Sandy Bridge -E. The E is short for "Enthusiast" or "Extreme" (you seem to apply to 'Extreme'). Because of this, ONLY Ivy Bridge -E will work in the same socket when it launches sometime in 2013. It's rumored that Ivy Bridge-E will feature an 8 core / 16 thread monster CPU that will of course cost $1000. So an important point: Buy the P270WM at launch, and you should be able to upgrade to Ivy Bridge -E CPUs after a simple BIOS update. I refer thee to being able to drop in a 6-core X58 CPU in the X7200/D900F with a simple BIOS update when the Westmere CPUs were launched. It should be the same way. Should be.

2. Yes, Clevo does not bother with the 'Mainstream' (H67/P67/Z68) desktop platforms into a mobile form factor. Why should they? The high-end mobile CPUs can sometimes keep pace (at stock speeds of course). No need to split the market.

3. The P270WM will most definitely be a 17" beast. Maybe even bigger. We don't know yet.

4. I would get it for bragging rights and extreme benching scores, too. Many here would. It's gonna be one hell of a 'laptop'.

5. There are three processors at X79's launch (from what I know). Two are 6-core / 12 threads CPUs and both have unlocked multipliers, while the other is the cheapest and is a 4-core / 8 threads CPU. The smart play would be to buy the low-end quad core until Ivy Bridge-E hits. When it does, if you've got the dough, buy the 8-core monster CPU. Hells yeah! No more CPU bottlenecks. Lol. Anywho, you most definitely can rely on the X79 platform to perform like a champ well after 2 years pass. Your only limiting factor will be if the GPU MXM standard changes to revision 4.0. If it does, you'll need a mobo swap. Bummer.

6. For hard drives, I would get an Intel SSD for the boot drive, and some good mechanical drives with high capacity for storage such as Western Digital Scorpio Black 750GB. That would be excellent. Remember that the P270WM can house three internal 2.5" hard drives, just like the X7200 and the D900F.

7. For RAM, I would buy some speedy SO-DIMM modules like the Kingston Hyper-X kit and have 4 sticks. Quad Channel just refers to you needing four sticks of RAM for optimal performance. Nothing special is programmed into the JEDEC profiles for Quad Channel operation, I believe. You just need four identical RAM sticks; same make/model/speed/size/manufacturer. (NOTE: Someone please correct me if this is inaccurate)

8. If you are planning for extreme performance for a period greater than 2 years, it would be wise to get the highest-end SLI config upon buying the machine. Like right now, I would get dual GTX 580M. Why? Because buying mobile GPUs individually is horrendously expensive, though if you can afford it, then just buy a single GPU at start. Maybe 1x GTX 580m and go SLI later.

9. I wouldn't stick with the stock wi-fi card. The Intel Ultimate-N 6300 is one hell of a card. It's got some insane range on it. Definitely a winner. It's spectacular.

Hope that helps! I want a thorough review and lots of pics when you get it!

 

Hi ettornio,

Thank you for your detailed and thoughtful reply. I'll look into the MXM stuff, and will take your advice and go for a better wifi card. I'll see if the dual GPU's are in the budget, though as you say it will be expensive to purchase them individually anyway. And thank you for clearing up the Quad Channel thing. I'll do as good a review as possible, pictures are a maybe

 

You mentioned....

"...can I expect a P270WM to continue performing from a gaming point of view for 2+ years (into 2014) or not?"

There really is no way of knowing this for sure. Technology is soooo relentless as to new releases in it's leaps and bounds of things to come!

_

 

honestly sandy-e dosent improve that much from gulftown, 6core 3960x only 10~15% faster than 990x at mutiple tasks......
and the true power of x79 is 8 core, which will not be in sandy-e desktop line but xeon, and maybe ive-e will come with desktop 8 core but that is 2013

 

It would be senseless to go from X58 to X79 at launch, but since this guy is coming from a laptop that no longer functions and is out of warranty, it's not a bad idea to get it.

 

@ ettornio, what about what you said above...

"I would get it for bragging rights and extreme benching scores, too. Many here would. It's gonna be one hell of a 'laptop'."

I think many x7200 owners WILL get this one for that reason.
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