And... a DOA XMG!?

So buddy of mine asked me for laptop recommendations, and since we're in the EU now, I've directed him to Schenker/ MySN, mostly due to glowing reviews and all. Well... I kinda wish I hadn't done that...

I configured a XMG P706 with a 970M for him, and of course, out of the box, the video cuts in and out randomly for no obvious reason. Sometimes it cuts out when you adjust the screen, other times when you leave it on the table to install games, it just cuts in and out. Power cycling doesn't work, nor does holding down the power button to "reset" it.

As per my previous posts, I'm not a big fan of dGPUs (this is why!), but since he wanted to play games, dGPU it is. I was under the impression that mySN embedded additional QC checks in their production stages, which was how they justified charging more than everybody else.

But that doesn't appear to be the case here... and thanks to that, I now have someone angry at me for getting him to "pay more for sh** all". Hindsight being 20/20, XMG was probably all marketing and QC is no better than a standard Sager. Oh well, live and learn.

But in all seriousness, paying more and not getting more QC, sigh...

EDIT: As it turns out, mySN actually does more QC, its just that nothing in the box indicated that they've done it. /facepalm

 

Hi @Look_a_bird__ I'm very sorry to hear that your friend is experiencing these issues with a new XMG P706. I can't find a record of a phone call/email/Live Chat regarding this but as I work for the UK office it might be that your friend purchsed it from our EU shop and has contacted their support. If he hasn't done so already I would strongly advise this - we are here to help in every way that we can. Without having your friends order details it's difficult for me to comment further but it sounds a little bit like the LCD panel cable is to blame if changing the angle of the lid affects the display.

Our QC is very thorough. Once the laptop is built they are moved from the build room to the testing room where they are put through stress testing, including CPU and GPU tests as well as memtest. If Windows has been ordered this is installed, it is also tested and then using the network run Windows imaging system that production uses it is set back to default i.e. when you turn it on you see a clean install where you choose your user name and so on and the backup partition is also created. At this point the ports, touchpad etc are tested again. The laptop then goes throguh a visual inspection as the final step before being boxed up.

Our RMA rate on new orders is extremely low, however on occasion something will slip through the testing or quality control - sometimes it is simply an issue which was not detected before it was shipped, intermittent or otherwise. In these cases all we can do is apologise and support our customers in the best way that we can. Hardware faults can develop in transit, I have seen this happen in systems that I have personally tested which passed without any problems and then the recipient (I'm not refering to XMG systems sent to customers here as I haven't worked in production) has encountered a problem. We saw this for example with several GTX 980 GPUs in the first batch which passed extensive testing but needed to be replaced after a couple of days/week. You will see a very very small number of problems reported by our customers on this forum and in public in general, specifically because of the testing and QC that our laptops and PCs go through.

If you wish to send me a pm so that I can look out for your friends communication, or advise our EU office to do the same then please do so, I am sure that we can resolve any problems quickly for him.

EDIT: my colleagues have confirmed that our customer reported the problem last week and an RMA case was created on the 9th so that he could send it back to us under warranty for inspection and repair/replacement. They haven't been notified that the laptop is on its way back to our production facility yet but rest assured it will be a priority for the engineers when they do receive it.

 

PM sent, lets see how this plays out. Hopefully everybody walks away happy.

Also, in terms of QC testing, I've had another vendor ship me desktop and mobile workstations with benchmark results, temperature readouts and thermal imaging printouts as proof of extensive QC and reference. I'm not seeing such a booklet in his package, if you guys did extensive tests, why not just document them? From a customer perspective, having documentation to back up QC testing is a lot better than hearing "oh yeah, we tested it thoroughly".

EDIT: The notebook has been shipped, but everything under the sun is on strike here in Belgium. So... looks like this is gonna take a while.

 

I'm sure it will be resolved to the satisfaction of everyone. I appreciate that you feel your friends experience has reflected badly on you via your recommendation to him, but the problem with the laptop isn't your fault and we just need to have the laptop back and get it sorted out for him.

The system engineers have a suite of testing software that they use, when a laptop passes they record this and then the build moves onto the next stage. If something fails then the build moves back a stage, so either way it will be within our parameters and functionality level before it ships. The testing will be documented internally, but to be completely honest I don't know if they have this information in a format that could easilly be presentable to a customer. I do see your point and it could also add value to a system, but the performance, stability and temperatures of a laptop are going to be within 2-3% of each other and of the reviews that are published of each model.

In the case of your friends laptop if the problems that he has reported were present during the build then it wouldn't have been possible to install Windows, so something has clearly failed between the shipping date of the 25th May and when the return under RMA was arranged on the 9th June.

We ship hundreds / thousands of systems a month and every one goes through the same prodecure, it's a testament to this procedure that one struggles to find problems reported by customers in the public domain.

I have talked to my colleagues in the EU tech support department about this and notified them that the laptop is on it's way back as they weren't aware of this. I'm sure that the problems with the strike in Belgium won't help matters though ;-(

 

Unfortunately, it does happen from time to time where a computer shows up with issues. We've seen it where something gets knocked or shook loose in transit as well, after going through all the proper testing and QA checks. It could happen regardless if it is a bga graphics or mxm, or if it was a laptop or desktop. Nobody wants to go through an RMA on a new system, and sellers don't like to see it happen either. We would rather hear someone say "I got the system, and it's great" instead of the opposite. In those cases, it's good to see your seller have quick response time and want to take care of you in a prompt manner.

 

Well, of course these things happen, its just that nobody wants it to happen to them, especially when its a recommendation. When referrals go well, you'd get a continuous stream (however big or small) of future business, but if they go bad, you'd instantly lose two customers, and far more in the long run. In any case, I'm glad that mySN handled it quite well, and hopefully Belgian Post would stop striking so this will get resolved soon. As for the angry friend, well the solution to that is typically a few pints.

But in all seriousness, to mySN, you guys should really include at least some information on the QC of the laptop. While I understand that the internal logs + external reviews is a very efficient way of keeping things in check. However, at the end of the day, when someone pays a premium hoping for better quality, you have to show them SOMETHING that says "we've done extra testing!". (There's also no way for reviewers to review every single CPU/GPU/Screen configuration, that'd be machine dependent and an extra piece of paper provides a good reference for the end user).

Its the difference between:
1. "Yeah they said they've tested it before they shipped it, but it doesn't work properly, so I paid more for nothing"
2. "Hmm, it doesn't work properly, but they've tested and logged everything on this sheet here... Stupid DHL"

There's nothing wrong with your testing methodology, the presentation could definitely be improved upon (see Puget system from Washington state for reference, not a fan of their use of hot glue though). Cause when we unboxed the machine, there's nothing in there that tells either of us that you guys tested it at all.

 

Usually the exact testing a shop uses is kept as a bit of a secret as it's part of the method they use to help differentiate themselves, the vast majority of resellers will build a system and do a burn in test before shipping to test out each part.

However certain parts just don't show up in those tests and only come out in say shipping or the first few weeks.

 

@Look_a_bird__ sounds like you are looking for a certificate of conformance / compliance, unless you want a test report?

 

Actually, more along the lines of proof that they've done extra testing. If someone paid a premium for a more stringent QC, proof should be shown that it has occurred (not to mention that's added value). You'd be surprised at how many vendors promise "stringent quality control", charges extra and use OEM QC (or worse, didn't do anything at all).

EDIT: Yes I know that some people go by "the proof is in the quality of the product" philosophy, but that falls flat on its face when things do go wrong.

 

@Look_a_bird__ a signed CofC from (for example) the quality manager would not be enough proof for you?

 

If its from mySN, it definitely would, but I didn't see one in the box. But if they've already done the work, why not just document and sign it? In consumer psychology (interesting course btw), that adds a piece of mind to the purchase (and allows people to justify the premium they've spent on it).

 

@Look_a_bird__ their organization would have to evaluate including a complete test report (which it sounds like you you after) with each computer. Having complete documentation like this cuts into their bottom line. I can understand keeping it internal, because distributing copies to customers (who didn't pay for the data that led to their acceptance of the laptop anyways) is risky (e.g. customer complains that their benchmark doesn't get the exact same result as the test report shows) and it would also expose their testing methodology and production capacity, something they might consider to be a trade secret.

Having a company that is quick to respond to RMA and support claims is more important to me for a consumer product. Seems that XMG is doing a good job in helping your friend.

 

First of all, the situation is being resolved at a more than satisfactory level here, no argument here. I am merely suggesting include QC results (itemized pass or fail, never have I said mySN need to include benchmarks, I said Puget Systems does it, and its a very good value add in their package) with the computer since they've already done it. But you seem to think that I am pressing for benchmark scores here, which I'm not.

Second, never have I ever heard of diagnostic reports and complete documentations cutting into bottom lines, my firm can justify charging beyond an arm and a leg for equipment and services because we provide complete documentation. Considering that the QC tests were already completed and documented, the added costs should be negligible.

Third, customers paid a premium which included extended QC and diagnostics, they should have something to show for it, signed certificate, itemized diagnostic checklists, something that says its been done. I have never suggested that they divulge trade secrets, so I'm not sure where you're getting that from.

As for customers complaining about they didn't get an exact benchmark score, consider that so many resellers back home (stateside) does it, and we're far more complaint and litigation happy than the Europeans, and it hasn't been an issue for the ones I've spoken to.

 

I got a report like the one you want when I ordered an Origin PC Millennium Desktop.

They included how long the stress tests lasted, what stress tests they did, they also noted with a checkmark "reboot after every driver installation" that made me feel happy that they took so much care and took no shortcuts.

 

Those have been shown to be fake a long time ago... When someone purchased an Origin laptop and had all that info... yet upon receiving it had no thermal paste on the GPU.

 

words cannot describe how I am feeling after I read this...... Not even clowns are capable of doing that....

 

Link please? This I gotta see.

Anyways, when our Dell rep was preggo a couple of years ago, we couldn't get the same stuff for our usual rates (plus the new girl was clueless) so we went with Puget for a while. All the workstations and mobile workstations came with checklists, photos, reports and the whole 9 yards. The thermal imaging was really the cherry on top. Never had any issues with any of them, that was money WELL spent. Too bad they don't ship to Belgium.

But if Origin is playing it fast and loose, their brand will fall sooner or later.

 

Let me see if I can find it. It was here in the forums somewhere.

 

well without the link, I will never deal with Origin PC again. Just look at their forums and you will see the horror stories (worth a read)

my experience with them......

Ordered an Origin PC Millennium Desktop for $9,000 USD in June. Took them a month to build/ship it, half of the customer notes I mentioned in my order in the way to install the OS were ignored. The so called overclocking service I paid for was just a small 200 mhz overclock of a 5930K CPU, the only thing they changed is set a voltage offset of -0.185. Really? $50 USD for this?

Secondly, I had to constantly email and call to get any updates about my PC, not once did they send me an update. I know I am not their only customer but when you pay $9000 USD for a system you expect a bit of attention/care.

When I sold the machine 3 months later as I didn't like the idea of having a bulky desktop, I called them to transfer the warranty to the new owner and they said no can do. Warranties cannot be transferred.

Never again will I buy anything from that company.

 

I can't find it right now, someone around here has to remember it though. Not saying it hasn't happened with other companies but there was a huge rage thread about it because it came with this benchmark sheet and everything and the GPU was thermal throttling, took it apart and no thermal paste.

 

Well considering that they have a Rants and Raves section on their own forum, I probably wouldn't touch em with a ten foot pole.

Only reason why we went with Puget was because of referrals. They promised to do it right the first time, they included proof that they did it right, and if all else fails, they have a NBD service policy. Which is stupid fast considering the level of gear we bought.

 

Writing a report takes time, i'd rather they just fixed my machine as fast as possible IMO.

 

LOL. They be like, you see how good the performance is without TIM, just imagine how would it perform with TIM.

To be honest, all these testing and creating reports and stuff takes alot of time If you do it properly. Which in term will mean alot of extra charges (much more than the XMG premium service). Some will not be willing to pay for it. But some might. So i think its a good idea to include it as an optional service.

But then again people will banter about why this is so costly. I have seen people complain about companies charging $25 for ICU on the bases of argument that a Tube of ICU can be had just for $7. They fail to understand how business works.

 

At work, we compile post diagnostic reports all the time for internal and client documentation. Took one of our programmers like 2 weeks to write a program that asked what all the parameters are, and then at the end, its one button and wham, reports, reports everywhere.

One guy, two weeks and we got to hike the price by double digit percentage. hahahaha...

 

What i do is boot from PXE into a testing install, i have diferent for various models. I can do easy updates on these images if new drivers come up or new benchmark software versions.
I have everything ready for all my tests, either software benchmarks or even a manual check list (like check all usb ports, touchpad, all buttons, etc).
Before all this i also have checks for hardware.

Adding results for the client to check in the website order area should not be hard to code. You guys just gave me a good idea

I´m thinking it´s time to code a production line software, with all checks and verifications and something that will fetch prints and add them to the client order, something one click easy. Maybe even add touch screen or tabblet to the production line...

There i go code something new... why oh why does this happen everytime im in the middle of something...

 

It's always good to have an idea list to come back to later if needed