Anyone else disappointed?

@Mr. Fox @Papusan @GTVEVO @bloodhawk

So I bought this expensive 6K desktop replacement and ditched other options because it had socketed components so I can upgrade it and it would be a long term investment. But 1 GPU upgrade and we're locked out of getting it is very disappointing to me.

I know there is no guarantee to upgrades but IMO should not be the case on a laptop that was the flagship just a few months ago and cannot even be upgraded to a one generation higher GPU without reinventing the wheel if that became possible anyway.

Right now I am holding off buying the P870DM3 until the 120hz screen gets GSYNC but man should we get another option where I can use my current CPU/RAM/SSDs from another manufacturer, I would ditch the whole Clevo brand altogether in a heartbeat especially to get a full fledged keyboard rather than piece of trash 15 inch keyboard that they still insist on putting every laptop they make.

oh and just to add, if I were to sell my laptop now it would be worth peanuts so I'd rather just keep it as a backup should any issues happen in my new laptop

 

I feel you bro. That's why I only bought the dm2 just in case if I get burned again, it would not hurt that much (as opposed to the dm3). I'll cannibalize my parts for the new one and I'll sell the p870dm as a barebones only (with ram) option for half the cost Me getting a desktop is around 14months away..so yeah, the next upgrade will not be a dtr.

The P650 ones has a chiclet type of keyboard which I like more than the ones we have. I'm afraid we have no other option unless someone starts funding a new company that could compete with Clevo.

 

Been there, done that, bought a 9K USD Origin PC Millennium desktop last year. I enjoyed the performance for a while but after a few months, I got tired of the bulk, the many cables, the heft, the inability to take my computer with me anywhere if I wanted to. So I will stick to desktop replacement laptops forever. I like having everything in one piece of hardware rather than having a case, monitor, keyboard, etc separately.

But oh boy did we all Clevo Clann get ****wed by Clevo on this one. The joy of having the latest and greatest didn't even last for 5 months for me.

 

Everybody got scrwed esp those that picked up the 870dm. Thank God i didnt get it over the 770dm! At this point i could not justify the reason why i/anyone should get a socketed laptop if there is no guarantee that we could upgrade it in the near future. Tbh i want to ditch my system too and just get me a slim and light laptop and be done with it. Maybe just sell it in 2 years or so. I cant brag anymore as there is nothing to be proud/brag about since the whole essence/advantage of these laptops is it CAN be upgraded but now that ship has sailed...

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

 

I would wait with a purchase of a new laptop, but that's me... Maybe possible Clevo will retain the new GPU designed, but you never know!! + Kabys Lake with the new chipsets and motherboards will most likely come early next year in a upgraded P870DM-<another model??? LOL>(Kaby Lake clocked up from old Skylake 4.0/4,2 GHz to 4.2/4.5 GHz Turbo boost). I'd wait if I were you. Maybe also waited until next fall(P870DM is still a good machine). Or build a desktop rig with phase Cooling (as I used before) and the best hardware you can afford.

 

Yeah, it feels different when you can carry your system around as opposed to having a powerful at home but cannot carry it. Mine lasted a little more than 5months. It really ****s to be left out like this.

I even wrote a mail to Clevo TW asking for at least upgrade kits. All I got was a very generic reply, so that means a "no". It will be up to the distributors to find a way to make it work in our current p870dms.

 

Best case scenario. Clevo ditched the old MXM design to start fresh and pre-empt HBM and other considerations.

Likely case. They screwed their flagship customers because they thought they were good for it.

 

Heck, even the Alienware owners with the external graphics amplifier whom we used to look down upon as they had BGA components can enjoy the 1080 GTX while we can't.

 

We still might be able to use TB3 so they don't ever have that

Besides that... I'd rather use a a 870 with a 980 over a Alienware with a 1080 anchor.

 

Yeah, People use their machines to more than just gaming. Be stuck with that U*** BGA i7 when you need processing power. Nice with a hyper modern [email protected] GHz on all 4 in real work load

 

Am I disappointed sure, I would love everything to fall into place perfectly but the guarantee that we could upgrade was assumed. Hardware can never be projected accurately if continued improvements are delivered, you have to weigh whats best and in this case they probably felt the weight of providing what everyone has been asking for was greater than the ability to upgrade and it work incorrectly in regards of power and cooling. With those changes being made I am thankful that the SSD/HDD drive configurations did not change. In the end I am looking at the entire picture so I don't loose focus along with the number 1 reason I purchased the P870dmg, the most important part to me was purchasing hardware that had proper support for enthusiasts and we still have this because of the great community members along the efforts from @Prema and @Mr. Fox , @Johnksss@iBUYPOWER , @ssj92, @Phoenix being transparent with their knowledge.

 

I know how you feel, but please write this in your diary, and above your bed : Manufacturers want upgradeable laptops to be extinct. (And by manufacturers I'm not talking about clevo but above them maybe )

 

I don't want to be an apologist for Clevo, but I wanted to share some thoughts (or my $0.02 worth):

Out of curiosity,was the 880m to 980m card compatible? Assuming if I understand my son's reaction in the desktop-world, the 1080 was a giant step up from the 980. With all the added circuitry, it is possible there was just not enough 2D surface area that they could keep the thing cool in a compatible MXM format, and had to make a decision to do in a different direction.

If that is the case, the anger felt in this community might have been mitigated if they had talked to their surrogates (resellers), and communicated there was going to be a change. I don't know if that is the case, but from a marketing / public relations point of view, to me it seems either the resellers didn't communicate back there would be a backlash or perhaps Clevo is just tone-deaf.

I sure hope this was a one off, and in the future Clevo and the people associated with them can learn from this, and possibly avoid something like this ever happening again.

 

You can get an eGPU and enjoy 1080 with the P870DM-G if you want to. The eGPU doesn't make a silk purse from a sow's ear. An Alienware is still a BGA turdbook no matter how you slice it. eGPU can't fix that problem.

 

how does MSI promise a 1 year upgrade path if this was the case?

 

I'm not sure how it works, or that it applies to all models. Plus, making a promise and actually delivering on it might be two different things. Honestly, since all they offer is BGA turdbooks with castrated CPUs I don't give a flip about MSI. They can stuff their crippled craptop filth where the sun don't shine.

I think Clevo and MSI both could have done this more gracefully than they did. I suspect we were intentionally left in the dark because spilling their guts about GPU form factor changes would have caused a massive slump in sales and they would likely prefer to have those of us they shafted pissed off than lose money. They've banked it and probably don't give a damn whether we are happy about, or even if we never buy another product from them again. They're probably counting on most of us getting over being screwed so hard. What they did to us was not illegal, but it certainly wasn't ethical. I'm not forgetting about it... ever. And, I'm not in a rush to spread my cheeks for round two.

I refuse to believe that 1080 would not have worked on the same PCB as 180W 980. Or, that 1070 would not have worked on the 980M PCB. I think it was premeditated planned obsolescence, ill conceived and poorly executed to such an extent that even their entire current active product line was assassinated with a single shot. I do not buy the notion that my new P870DM-G "needed" to be incompatible with Pascal form factors in order to make room for the future technology. That's just a bunch of baloney.

 

The GT72 first launched with the 2 year MXM upgrade promise on the GPU. So it's 8xx -> 9xx (fulfilled) -> 10xx(???)

This applies to the GT80 marketing promotion too, MSi boasted about the MXM GPU in SLi that allows gamers to upgrade.


As of now, almost all materials regarding the MSi upgrade for the 10xx GPU has been deleted off their website and is only viewable using a waybackmachine/archive.

 

100% agreement!

I really hope that is *not* the case. Pushing close to the half century mark, and owning a PC (OK, so it was my parent's) since 1983, I've been in the tech industry for a long time. Companies that operate like this tend to alienate (semi-pun intended) their customers, and in the long run wonder why everyone abandoned ship.

I'll stress again to any resellers ( @clevo-extreme, @XMG, @Meaker@Sager, @mythlogic, @pat@XOTICPC, @Ted@HIDevolution, @Donald@HIDevolution, @EurocomTechspert - apologies if you're a reseller and not listed because I know I missed a bunch of you), if you as a reseller have any input into Clevo, please submit this feedback. While folks like @Mr. Fox and @Phoenix are only one or two lost sales as individuals, the weight they carry here at NBR, at TI, and out in the community at large may have repercussions on additional sales down the road, especially if these folks leave the Clevo family on bad terms.

[Edited: To clarify request to Resellers]

 

To be clear, I do not hold any Sager/Clevo vendor responsible for this stuff. Most of them probably found out too late to have any influence on the outcome or suggestions on communication, and they have NDAs as well.

 

A little more transparency would be nice. NDA's need to be relaxed a little more, I little goodwill goes a long way.

 

Absolutely. I hope no one misinterpreted my post. Clevo is the one to direct any communications / frustrations, and *NOT* at a reseller.

However, I've found no real way to communicate effectively with Clevo. I was hoping that bringing this to resellers' attention might do some good for those that have a relationship with Clevo. Hopefully, this ordeal can reach Clevo's ears, and they can learn from this incident for any future decision making. I apologize if that wasn't clear.

 

Seconded!

However, it may be more complicated than that if there is an nVIdia NDA preventing Clevo from talking with resellers. Note, this is just supposition on my part. I have no idea if this is actually the case, but seems that may fit.

 

First Alienware and now Clevo, I am not excited about anything anymore seems like all these companies care about now is strategies to eliminate upgrades and force customers to upgrade for every GPU/CPU

 

Clevo can't get a simple drivers page to work properly, they don't care about my comments about their crappy keyboards which I've had to replace 4 times so far and they certainly don't care about this thread or our anger for not being able to upgrade

 

It is completely understandable where you are coming from and why you feel the way you do. Being the ever-optimist, I keep hoping a future Clevo design or modified MSI GPU is coming for you, @Mr. Fox (until his sale goes thru) and other Phoenix owners.

However, If I may be so bold, I suggest withholding judgment until there are more Pascal GPUs released as well as any info regarding the plans for the upcoming Volta GPU. Time will eventually prove if this is right or wrong.

 

Lol I'm done with the whole DTR/ high end laptop BS.
Going to keep this system and not going to waste another penny on it. Tops an eGPU setup till I assemble my workstation rig.
As far as I'm concerned it's going to be be too much work to even get the EC mod running on the single 1080/1070, and if I have to hard mod a $1200+ piece of hardware and lose warraty, no freaking thank you.

 

I'm a little bit disappointed, yeah, absolutely, but at the same time I'm still busy being impressed with how far technology has come, and how impressively powerful Clevo laptops are these days.

You guys gotta remember, you have full desktop CPUs in your laptops, and some of you even have desktop GPUs in your laptops. That is still something to brag about, and be happy about. I love DTRs.

 

That's me, no DTR in my cards, I'm now committed to a thin/light mid level laptop for the road, and a powerful desktop to come home to.

That said I am going to miss pitching upgradability to potential customers, I felt like that was a good selling point for the bigger machines.

 

Going to grab an Aorus next year with a 1070/1060 for portability. And use the P870DM as a media center or a backup system.
We all got screwed over royally.

 

That's what I ended up with, I have a previous generation X7.

 

hahahaha

 

Expecting either one of those thing from NVIDIA?

 

There were a lot of considerations to factor in this generation. PCB development costs, design requirements and the change in going to desktop level chips.

We never advertised upgradability as it's never guaranteed to be user friendly. Someone experienced will be able to run a single 1080 in the p870dm (a matching top end spec to what it was offered with) but you will need physical and firmware modifications to do so.

As for sharing the details there were strict NDAs in place, no details could be leaked or discussed. That was out if our hands.

 

No one is blaming the re-sellers. Problem is with Clevo, they could have kept the cards compatible with the P870DM-G. Since the changes arent all that drastic, just multiple small ones that lock us out.

Sure we can mod the cards to work on our systems, but would you for go warranty on a $1200+ piece of hardware (something that is prone to failure) that easily? Sure some hardcore users would, but the majority wont.

 

And to be honest the leaked information before the NDA was up didn't really paint a picture for upgradable cards anyway.

 

And, that it is doable with sufficient effort and expense is sort of a moot point. When you reach this level of incompatibility and ludicrous costs it becomes too "not worth it" to be worthy of serious consideration. One 1080 MXM (or 980 MXM) is almost as expensive as an upgrade to 980M SLI or desktop 1080 SLI Superclocked GPUs. Ignore the fact that one 1080 MXM is more powerful than two 980M. We expect that and that's why upgrades matter. The disparity in cost is nothing less than astronomical, not to mention asinine.

I think most of us know that Sager/Clevo resellers and Clevo distributors are not to blame here. All of you are hard-working businessmen trying to scratch out a living like the rest of us. It would suck to be a P870DM-G owner just as much for you. They aren't free and they don't grow on tress. So, you are all as unfortunate as we are, except that you are the messengers some will want to shoot at. In that aspect, you nice folks are even worse off than end users because of all the crap you have to listen to from angry people that have every right to be upset.

 

SO, GUYS... let's take a new approach for a bit. We have a negative situation. Assuming some powerful people at Clevo read this thread, I think they can get the picture about how we feel by the comments posted in this and many other threads at NBR and Tech|Inferno. We don't have to look very hard to find the negative expressions from people who feel mistreated, and neither will Clevo.

Taking a positive approach, let's exchange some ideas about what can Clevo do for us, their loyal and valued customers, to make this wrong situation right? What would it take for Clevo to win back your trust and respect in this situation?

I have some thoughts, but I'll hold them for a bit. What do you guys think would be a fair solution?

 

Clevo sounds like 'someone experienced'. They should be the foremost expert on integrating a solo-1080 into the DM-G, & offer the physical + firmware mod to the customer-base with a video how-to in order to help remove confusion over the process. To not do so, in effect to leave it up to past buyers to figure out, that itself will tell a tale: did Clevo come to the rescue -or- did they wash their hands of a 1080 in DM-G & say 'you're on your own, one of you clever monkeys will get one to work, eventually'.

Offer an upgrade kit & how-to towards solo-1080 Mr Fox (cost-be-damned to the one purchasing it). That way it isn't about who has experience or not, it's who can afford it or not. That is one way to heal this situation ...

 

Simply releasing a compatible heatsink and power cable for a single 1080 would be very reasonable. The P870 was only offered with a single 980, so it seems fair to offer the equivalent upgrade. That the 1070 is the same form factor is a kick in the teeth for anyone hoping for an upgrade to SLI, but if Clevo is standardizing their non-standard MXM format I can see the rationale.

 

Give us the option to purchase compatible 1080/1070's ? Even if it is possible a few months down the line?
Buy back our systems and give us newer ones at a slight cost? (very stupid suggestion IMO)

Discounted rates for people willing to try the 1080 in the p870DM-G's with a mod?

Cant think of much else.

 

Thanks for saying so. I don't think Clevo is the only mfg that made this change though, I'd be interested to see if anyone actually gets an upgrade working in last gen system. (hint to any modders watching, post success stories, we'd love to hear them!@)

 

If they could provide some sort of customer loyalty rebate or single 1080 solution or both would be great.

 

Nobody should get free upgrades as compensation. A single 1080 upgrade option with a FREE 1080 heat sink and power cable mod for the DM-G since the parts they gave us for 200W 980 are now worthless... that would be a starting point for those that bought single 200W 980. For those that specifically selected the P870DM-G for SLI upgrades, there is no reasonable solution other than returning the product for a full refund of the original purchase price. If they cannot provide a 1080 that works correctly in the DM-G, then a refund for anyone that asks for one and surrenders their machine to an authorized distributor would be acceptable. If not a cash refund, a full credit of the original purchase price toward the cost of exchanging the machine for a DM2/3 would be OK. The customer should be expected to step up to pay the difference in purchase cost.

 

You think a card is expensive now? With a custom heatsink along with the validation of the parts you would be cheaper buying a new system.

 

I'm starting to think this as well . . . I just checked out the prices for a P870DM2 with a single 1070 (~30% faster I believe) and at that price there is no way someone, unless they didnt know, would give us anywhere near what we paid - and I certainly dont plan to give it away.

Regarding what Clevo could do - I'd be happy with a simple "loyalty" discount, say $500 either off the price of a new one, in upgrades or other items. I know they wont ever give us true value, but a token "we screwed you" would be worth something.

 

Exactly why im not selling mine, will have to sell it at a loss of at least $1000 (and that is AT LEAST, without taking into account depreciation). Might as well get an eGPU and use the card in there in a desktop later on. Unless Clevo does something about the whole situation. Doubtful though.

 

Now, there is a thought as well. What if Clevo developed a TB3 eGPU like the Razer Core or TUL Devil Box and offered that for free (ideal) or a very low price ($200 USD or less including shipping) to P870DM-G owners that are stuck with dead-end monsterbooks? It would need to support 1080 and next-gen Pascal Titan full-sized superclocked desktop GPUs (no half-length garbage). I would not expect them to provide the graphics cards, just the eGPU setup complete, ready for a GPU. It would be for a limited time, (say within 12 months of purchase date,) offered only to the original owner, and require an invoice from the original owner as proof of purchase.

I would call that a reasonable concession that I could live with. What say you?

 

Definitely agree. Id be in for that.
And it wouldnt even hurt their sales much since there arent too many P870DM-G/P77x-DM etc out there, 90% of them available for sale are used.

 

They would have something awesome to sell to all laptop owners with a TB3 port as well. So, a win for Clevo having an additional revenue stream beyond their own notebook product lineup also. As long as they do it swiftly, not drag it out or make the redemption process difficult.

 

Hmm.. i have a feeling you know something us common folk dont