Anyone not have a problem with P150EM+7970m?

I am currently considering the P150EM as an option for my next laptop purchase and have a question for you guys and gals. Does anyone get along with the P150EM+7970m combo with little to no issues?

I see so many negative posts about this combo on these forums and might just dowgrade to the 675m. I'm real hesitant to pay the $250 premium for the 680m.

 

Hi,
I had both and my answer is: GTX680M and I paid a lot more than you...so for that price go for it.

Best Regards to all

 

Enduro problem is present on virtually all clevo EM series 7970ms because its a design fault from AMD. i would not pay money for 7970m right now, but stretch the extra bit to 680m if possible. 675m, although cheap is still slower in majority of games than 7970m with enduro problems.

 

I have problems and wish I could return it but I'm past my 30 days

 

Actually there isn't nobody that dont have enduro problem. DONT BUY THAT CARD!!! Im having really hard times with it- both a gaming laptop with inability to play games right.
Those who say they dont have prbles are either really casuall plaers, or are playing those few games that run right.

 

I have had my laptop for 3 months and I haven't had any issues. But then again, I play League exclusively so I won't be seeing the Enduro issue.

 

I've got no problems at all. If you check the notebookcheck review of the 7900m, you can see what the performance is with enduro on, and it's still very good. If the performance difference to the 680m is worth the $250 to you, then have at it.

 

A handful of games have performance dips to the teens and 20's due to Enduro. Otherwise most other games don't seem to suffer from this. I really wish AMD would fix this though. I would have loved to have spent $300 less. But whatever, it is what it is.

 

Check my sig. I was in your boat, and asked the same questions luckily I was able to change to 680m before my laptop shipped. I highly recommend you do the same you won't regret it

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

 

save yourself while you can and dont buy the 7970m because it is a total garbage , most games wont even use 70% of it is power because of the pos enduro . even amd abandoned it's customers after the issue have been out for more than 3 month.

 

This is not a design fault from AMD.

The issue can be laid directly at the feet of Intel and Clevo. Intel sent a Reference Design for their motherboards with the HM77 chipset to all manufactures. That reference design dictated that the master display adapter is the IGP and that the slave adapter would be directed to solely through software implementation.

Most manufactures followed Intel reference design. This is easier because it allows the motherboard manufacturer to use non-modified Intel chipset drivers, and it requires little R&D to develop their own system.

Some manufactures deviated from reference design and created a work-around. Alienware implemented a switch to disable the IGP. ASUS ignored it completely and and made the Discrete GPU the Master adapter.

nVIDIA works better with the switchable graphics because they've worked hand in hand with Intel to make it work. They've also had a year or more of failures with Optimus as a "Trail and Error" period.

If you want to blame anyone for this fiasco, blame it on Intel and ask yourself, "What does Intel stand to gain by forcing their IGP to the master."

To better answer that question, look into the AMD APU and remember that it wasn't until Sandy Bridge that Intel put a GPU on their processors.

 

Show me where Intel worked hand in hand with nVidia. Intel forced nVidia away from their chipset designs and nVidia had to work out their own switchable graphics solution without Intel's help, and that's how Optimus started. Partially because Intel wanted the IGP for themselves and not from a third party.

 

why should iGPU have any effect on 7970m's rendering process? Its only supposed to parse video signal to the monitor, just like it does with 680m. I cant see how this is not a fault of AMD - they either screwed something up or did not test their cards work properly before releasing them.

 

Read this and you'll see how Intel and nVIDIA are worried about AMDs APUs "Heterogeneous Processing":

Intel/NVIDIA bombshell: two rivals team up | Ars Technica

Read this to see AMDs Roadmap and why Intel and nVIDIA should be scared and want to work together:

AMD Fusion: How It Started, Where It

Understand, I'm not saying that AMD's driver team doesn't need to find a solution. What I'm attempting to do is illustrate why AMD is in this mess and perhaps you can have some empathy.

Had Clevo, like ASUS and Alienware, implemented a work-around, AMD wouldn't be having these issues.

AMD doesn't have access to Intel's Chipset and Processor architecture before they're released! Look at the timeline here:

HM77 Launched: April 8, 2012
Ivy Bridge Launched: April 29, 2012
AMD 7900M series Launched: Apr 24, 2012

Given those release dates, without access to Intel motherboards and processors, how can you possibly expect AMD to have working drivers?! If you don't think this was an intentional play on Intel's part, think again.

I don't want to start a flame war here guys, but don't bite the hand that feeds you. Have some empathy for AMD.

It's costing AMD, Sager, and all your resellers lots of money for returns and tech support. We want it resolved as much as you do.

 

So why would AMD go in blind and design a power saving feature for high-end gaming laptops that could potentially cripple the system? Why not add it as a feature later on (knowing that it actually works...)? This is clearly a bad misstep on AMD's part.

And yes, Asus and AW users have problems too, since the power saving feature they paid for is not working, thus the product they bought is not working as it should.

 

AMD had no choice but to go in blind. They were not given software and hardware engineering specifications from Intel.

As I stated in my original post, AMD didn't implement a power save feature, Intel did. AMD had to develop a software to fix Intel's power saving feature.

Remember, Intel is the master display adapter and Enduro has to compensate for this.

 

ivy bridge has nothing to do with this, problem is present with sandy bridge CPUs as well. Also, those are launch dates, manufacturers get engineering samples several months before those dates.

My heart bleeds for them...I have bought a high end gaming machine that has seen almost no gaming use because I find it unfit for competitive play. I am also unable to sell this laptop without a heavy discount as its not working as it should.

 

any sources to back any of this up?

I still dont see why iGPU should have any effect on 7970m's rendering process. In a nutshell iGPU should only act as a video signal transporter, doing no rendering work whatsoever. nvidia never had these issues with any of their optimus cards.

 

Answering the OP's original question, I do have Enduro issues on my 7970M, but the card still performs very well. I play BF3 a lot, which is supposed to be one of the games that is hit hardest by Enduro, and while I do get lower framerates in 64 player matches on certain maps, the game is still playable 95% of the time. I play it for hours daily and I am fine with it.

 

You're right Ivy Bridge has nothing to do with the issue. It's the HM77 Chipset. AMD does not have access to Intel's "Engineering Samples" AMD is Intel's #1 competitor and Clevo is under a strict NDA to not release anything to AMD.

I understand your frustration, the resellers are dealing with everyone's issues inclding tech support and returns. Once again, I'm not absolving AMD from finding a fix.

I'm asking people to temper their comments with patience.

Empathy may not be the right word, but the point still remains. You attract more flies with honey than vinegar.

Wrong.

 

please elaborate when did any of the optimus cards have gpu utilization issues? I know there were various game detection issues, but they could all be worked around.

 

Sha7bot, I found your posts the most informative and interesting posts I've read in weeks on this 7970m debacle. They made me scared but also more empathetic towards Clevo/Sager. I always thought Sager just didn't test thoroughly enough, but apparently they literally couldn't. What a d move by Intel, and they get to play the innocent one here since on the surface they only look like the messenger. I am confused as to why you said Clevo "is under a strict NDA to not release anything to AMD." If Clevo doesn't like AMD then they shouldn't buy crap loads of their video cards for their laptops!

Do you expect AMD and Clevo to have the 7970m working in a generally complete way before the next gen, or are we all screwed? Are these corporations reliable enough for that? Is Intel's help required to fix this, and sine Intel hates AMD, will a fix not come any time soon?

 

Yes, I too, would like to know, as I am also one of the thousands here who foolishly bought the 7970M and it's Enduro nightmare, and am HOPING for a quick fix to this before the end of the year (of which I am NOT expecting at all quite honestly).

Sha7bot, I echo the comments made here by others and say thanks for the informative posts that you have made regarding the 7970/AMD/Intel FIASCO, and the pettiness that has caused all of this to take place. You seem to work for one of the Clevo Resellers, and are in a place where you can speak anonymously, yet informatively about this.
I am greatly concerned here that in what you said seems to imply that NO SOLUTION or work-around is imminent, if at all, because from what you said about this being a design flaw, which also implies that is a hardware solution that needs to take place to resolve this, and not a software fix. If that is the case, then all of us 7970M owners are indeed screwed, because we would have to pay the entire cost both ways in shipping, parts, and labor to send our units back to Sager, and then have to wait for literally weeks to get the work done. As you said, this is also a logistical nightmare for Sager as well, having to pay through the nose to get all their sold laptops back in working condition.
It's a lose-lose situation for everyone involved here.

To give you an idea here as to real cost, I checked with XoticPc about a replacement swap of my 7970M GPU for the Nvidia 680M, and to swap those cards out would cost me almost $800!
The cost of "fixing" the hardware of this AMD fiasco could very well run at half that cost, because Sager told me that they WILL NOT eat any of the costs themselves here, and that I would have to pay the entire amount myself, because they said any problems with the 7970M is not their problem or fault, so I would have to pay full price.

My other concern here, is that this could go on for months, if not years, because we could see this evolving into a finger-pointing contest, as to whom is really responsible and at fault in this Enduro nightmare situation. AMD could say that it's Intel's fault, and vice-versa, and then Sager/Clevo are stuck in the middle pointing fingers at both sides to the left and right, all the while we are consumers are stuck holding the bill. We all paid BIG $$$ for these laptops, and we are NOT getting what we paid for. We bought these laptops in good faith, and we are all feeling that we were lied to, and in a way, taken advantage of in buying something for less money, but getting a defective product that will never be fixed.

That is NOT acceptable to us, and we all deserve better than to hear from AMD & Intel saying that it is not their fault, and that we consumers are on our own here.

I paid nearly $2,000 for my 7970M laptop, and I feel ripped off, taken advantage of, and lied to.

____________________________________________________

 

I definitely feel bad for all of you Clevo/Sager EM 7970m users.. This issue should have been noticed by the resellers prior to them shipping them systems out. I am sure that many of them had a few test systems and could have easily noticed there was an issue with Enduro. They could have notified buyers and could have given them the option to continue with their purchase or upgrade/downgrade to a different card that actually worked properly.

Makes me happy that my system doesn't take advantage of any Enduro features and runs all games smooth as butter. BF3 shows max GPU utilization at all times. Pretty sad that my older laptop can run games better than your new $2000 laptop. I would feel royally ripped. I hope there is a fix for you all soon.

Couldn't some of you simply sell your 7970m and upgrade to a 680m? I know there are other people looking to upgrade their laptops that don't suffer from the issue. Maybe get $500 for the card and spend $300 more to get a 680m card?

 

sorry but i think he is simply making stuff up in these informative posts. If Intel were to screw over AMD by preventing their product from working correctly they'd get sued quicker than Apple going after Samsung.
The bit where he says that AMD developed enduro without any information about HM77 from Intel is also false - one they wouldnt be able to make the product, two, its standard practice for chipset manufacturers to send out documentation and / or samples to other manufacturers to ensure product compatibility. If intel were to withhold vital information AMD could once again slap them with an antitrust lawsuit.

the last thing - AMD would be very quick to blame Intel for this issue if they had a reason to do so, their silence on this part makes it look like they are keeping quiet because they screwed up.

 

To the TC, unless you play the very select few games that have severe Enduro issues (check the stickied 7970 logging thread, have to sift through some garbage posts though), then it's a fine card. I've been gaming on it with hardly any framerate issues for a couple months now. You can ignore a lot of the comments on how it doesn't work, makes games unplayable, etc. etc., because those are just blown way out of proportion.

 

I'd feel like all hope would be lost if Sha7bot actually lied to us, arcticjoe. Being lied to by any one (AMD, Clevo, Sager, or resellers) in this case would make me want to throw my laptop in a fire.

Srikar: yes, some games play fine. Some games, however, don't, and some people mostly play the games that happen to NOT be playing well. I play GTA IV, which SEVERELY suffers. I am not even kidding, it is horrendous at times. Utilization can drop to 60% with frame rates dropping to the 30s. CPU utilization never passes 70%.

 

Not to mention 8 fps at times in Civilization 5.

 

been lurking here for a while, so first post i'm going to say I haven't had any major issue with the 7970m other than a couple games not detecting it properly and a couple of stutters in bf3. I have: The Witcher 1 & 2, BF3, Civ 5, Guild Wars 2, Total War Shogun 2 (Picks up the Intel 4000), Blacklight Retribution and Tribes ascend, plus a few others that are less gpu intensive, to be honest i really dont see all of the fuss about it, its annoying but the problem isn't worth £200 or so to me to be fixed.

 

800$ for a switch to the GTX 680M?? ....
How do they calculate this amount?

I asked my vendor "mysn-Schenker", i can upgrade for round about 350€ to the 680M or i can downgrade for free to the 675M...

Maybe you ask XoticPc for a free downgrade? Then its a loose of about 30€ for the HD 7970M upgrade?

 

"Sn00zy;8816797]800$ for a switch to the GTX 680M?? ....
How do they calculate this amount?

I asked my vendor "mysn-Schenker", i can upgrade for round about 350€ to the 680M or i can downgrade for free to the 675M..."

Same here. 800 dollars for the switch is just outrageous.

 

Don't be so melodramatic. At first sight yes, we non-technical consumers love the inside-loop gossip and we all know the appeal of conspiracy theories to netizens.

Upon closer inspection, nothing Sha7bot said is verified or backed up by anything but the confidence with which he makes these utterances. Not enough for me. I've spent a long enough time on technical forums to know that opinions usually = ego size and not necessarily truth, specially with arcticjoe dismantling every post he made.

Even if everything he said were true, how is it "hopeful" in any way? He's basically diverting the blame to Intel, which further scatters and confuses our efforts and gives AMD/Sager some ammo to fend the whole thing away from themselves. Not a good strategy.

Sucking up to a grey name won't get you freebies, these are the guys who should've warned us in the first place instead of: "All our customers are very happy with their 7970Ms!" That I got from this guy's company.

 

Send me your laptop and I'll, um, throw it in the fire for you.

But this is getting stupid, ridiculous on the account of Sager and AMD.

 

How in the hell is "30s" unplayable? Some PCgames are even locked right at 30, most console games never passing 30. This is what I mean by the issue being blown way out of proportion. People make it seem like the games are slideshows when they are not and are still very playable. Sorry, but 30FPS is not stuttering.

 

Actually some games are unplyaeble at 30 fps like battlefield 3 multi is. In a face-paced shotter you need at lease 45-50 stable to show your actuall skill level. Gta 4 in my opinion is still playable but in some open areas it dips lower to lets say 20-25. The thing is that I actually upgraded from a 5870m and it was already giving me at the same settings the same fps as the 7970m. So whats the point of spending 1600 euros for a computer that actually isnt a upgrate at all??

Games look som much better when playing at 60 fps and the power of 7970m is the card you can achieve it with- thats what we payd for but we didnt get...

 

my 6970m and gtx 480 gave me 50fps and I get 30fps dips with 7970m, a card that is supposed to be far more powerful. To me that is not acceptable.

 

Not acceptable, sure. But that doesn't make the game unplayable.

 

How does that relate to anything? Point is, the card is not working as it should. I don't like owning a malfunctioning laptop and you don't pay these kind of sums for a game to be merely playable.

"Oh hi. Bought a new Ferrari. It only goes 80km/h but its totally driveable."

 

Yes, you are one of the others in the extremely vocal minority that only plays 2 games and complains. What I said relates if you even thought to read the original post instead of coming here just to whine like in every other thread. The TC does not want to pay the premium for the 680. He instead is thinking about the 7970 or the 675. Even with Enduro issues, the 7970 outperforms the 675 and there are very few games that don't play really well at 30+ FPS completely maxed out (was just getting 25FPS in Witcher 2 with ubersampling on and AA cranked all the way up at 1920x1080, will post results without ubersampling in the utilization thread later).

Your analogy is terrible. It's more like the Ferrari has a governor at 155MPH with a max speed of 190MPH.

 

I think the analogy is fine . At least in Finland 80km/h is a common speed limit. So even though the 80km/h might serve me just fine most of the time, I wouldn't be too happy knowing it doesn't go any faster than that (30fps might be playable but I want MOAR )

Sorry about the whining. Just so frustrated with the whole situation.

 

Too many posts to quote them all.

Read this datasheet to see how Optimus is implemented. Look closely at the Layout and the "Issues with Switchable Graphics". Also, call your reseller. They'll tell you that the IGP is the master adapter. As you can imagine we've tried to find ways around this, and there isn't. The only way to circumvent the IGP is through software. If this is the case, why didn't Intel make a software in their Chipset drivers instead of relying on nVIDIA and AMD?

For those that are worried that I'm implying there is no fix, that's not what I'm saying. We can see that Enduro works in a few games.

AMD is aware of these issues and they are working on them. Historically, AMD doesn't publicly discuss internal testing until they have a beta driver out. The solution entails writing "definitions" within CCC to appropriately redirect to the dGPU. The fact is however, there is no quick fix.

For the third time: (Please read my posts in their entirety before putting words in my mouth.) I am not absolving AMD from finding a solution. It's their video card. They need to fix it.

NeoCzar, we were just as in the dark about the problems as everyone else.

Call Sager directly and ask them where the problem lies. They'll substantiate everything I've said. Call MSI (They don't sell AMD) They'll substantiate everything I've said.

How am I sucking up to a grey name? I specifically blamed Clevo for following reference design.

I don't play favorites in this industry because I like competition. Right now AMD has an inferior product and competition is what will make them strive to make it perfect. Understand the root of the problems and you can see the challenges that AMD faces in fixing them.

 

from that linked document, I wonder if this Enduro problem is related to the way AMD cards transfer 7970m image to iGPU framebuffer:

If so, its a massive oversight on AMD's part, considering Nvidia had figured this potential bottleneck out in 2009.

 

You're the grey name. I was talking about a couple of members who praised your posts on the previous page.

Some people still pulling the "extremely vocal minority" card? You're kidding right?

Let me approximate things to you: In late 2004 I bought a desktop with an Nvidia 6600GT -mainstream mid-range gaming card- that ran WoW at release @50-55 fps. I used that computer till 2008, and even after a couple of expansions and modifications to the game's engine, it ran it @ 45-50 with a few settings set to medium. Then I got the mobility 7900GS (and not GTX) which is the cheap cousin of the mobility 7900GTX, which in turn is the younger brother of the 7950GT flagship card. It ran the game at highest settings up till the last expansion at a constant 60 fps except during massive world PvPs.

You telling me that the flagship AMD card of 2012 the 7970M running @15-20 fps in the major cities of WoW is .... "playable"? A game from 2004?

You have zero idea what you're talking about, and obviously do very little gaming. Mario Kart @30 fps is fine, movies@30 fps is fine. MMORPGs and fast-paced multi-player shooters aren't. It's not a vocal minority. Check the survey I started in this forum. People don't buy the 7970M to play Pacman. Stop arguing.

 

Did you see the end of that sentence? You're complaining about two games. Have you even bothered to check the utilization thread to see the posts about my "very little gaming?" Get your head out of your rear. It's like you're red in the face every time you post.

It's funny you tell me to stop arguing yet you are in every thread starting arguments. Lol.

 

good for you if you're happy with subpar performance of 7970m, - i find it seriously irritating to play at unstable fps so this gaming laptop is being used for like surfing the internet and bicthing on forums rather than gaming.. this is not the usage I've envisaged when I've spent £1600 on it. Worse still, I sold my previous laptop for half its price to buy this one, and the previous one was better suited for gaming despite an older 6970m card... so yeah, I'm a little peeved off at this situation, especially since AMD havent even officially acknowledged that there is a problem with their product.

 

Then play another game until this gets sorted out? You're irritated about one of the very few games that has severe issues. There are many other games out there that run great. Just about every game I have tested so far proves that.

Edit: Also if it's WoW, try running it on the Intel card? I'm sure you could get 60FPS out of it depending on settings. I have managed to max a few games on it with half-decent framerate.

 

Actually your wrong, its not very little games its most of the games. I tested maybe 15-20 games and most of them were affected. Some are playeble thoght at 30 frames and more, but that was was also on my older system which I upgraded to so I can get steady 60.
bf3, arkham city, gta4, crysis, crysis warhead, crysis 2, shift 1, 2, formula 1 2011, and many others are affected. these I mentioned arent even playeble as they dip down to 20 fps at times...

 

Srikar, we must have different tastes in games then, almost every game I have tried has had under-utilization and performance issues. ARMA 2, Batman AC, BF3 Multiplayer, Crysis 1 and 2, Dirt games, etc. The only game I have found to run ok so far has been Max Payne 3, but even there on some maps utilization drops bellow 40% and fps bellow 20.

 

Well AMD doesn't have any access to intel's HM77 and iGPU data, I think the fixing might take a while.

 

Just loaded up Arkham City. Got a stable 60FPS with DX11 turned off. With DX11 on, it was unstable, hovering around 28-32. If I recall correctly, the DX11 mode was never stable to begin with in this game. I know it was garbage on my 5870 as well. Or it may just be how "well" optimized it is for AMD cards in general. Don't have those other games to comment except for Max Payne 3. Never tried the multiplayer, but single player had no issues.