BGA Venting Thread ;)

Yeah, they push Google, Redmond Morons and other companies on how things should be, now how hardware should be implemented, but they have too many weird sick ideas. I do not know if I should cry or laugh They want to decide how much a cucumber should be bent before it can be sold as human food, LOL

 

OMG, the EU are still suffering with "bent" Banana's and Cucumber's!!? The Horror!!

Bent banana and curved cucumber rules dropped
EU rules banning bent bananas and curved cucumbers are set to be scrapped.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...-and-curved-cucumber-rules-dropped-by-EU.html

"A majority of EU member states, including Britain and Ireland, have voted to reform rules like EC Commission Regulation No 2257/94, which caused international ridicule by stating that all bananas must be "free of abnormal curvature" and at least 14 cm in length.

Imperfectly-shaped fruit and vegetables may now be back on supermarket shelves by 2009."

 

The next may be, determine how the man's equipment should be curved. If it's too bent, you will be forced to surgical (for your own money), if you think having children Too much weird rules And a few good.

 

I'm not arguing against the core arguments that you're making, but please take into account the reasons why the EU is promosing this, which I detailed in my previous post:

http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/bga-venting-thread.798775/page-140#post-10560127

 

I actually know a bit about this story. Mind you, this is unofficial, but I have good reason to believe it is very close to what happened.
Like all strange EU things, there is always a very sound logic behind it.
It all started with the banana wars, basically the biggest producer and exporter of bananas in the world is Chiquita, which is a US company. Chiquita was selling well in EU but UK, YES UK and also France,Spain,Portugal had the interest of having most of the banana imported from certain countries of interest (read former colonies ) so they had to limit Chiquita imports. They firstly placed import restrictions on the bananas from US and Central America, I think it was import quotas. These quotas got shot down eventually at the WTO after a long legal battle. With no other option left, UK, France and the other countries pushed for other trade restrictions that could prevent Chiquita from selling in the EU, hence the curved banana legislation was made. Chiquita bananas tend to be straight while those from the countries of interest are more curved. This is not something you will read anywhere. Officially the EU can never admit it was using its legislation to impose trade restrictions, it breaks international law.

 

While that sounds about right, how did making the law penalize Chiquita, if the top quality rating was given to them? It's still up to the seller and the buyer to negotiate price - and that was already in place.

I guess the option to charge more at retail for the "better" "Extra" Quality Banana would be there for the retailer, but then again he's getting them cheaper, so he's just gonna make more money.

Even if he sell's less at the "Extra" quality price, they still cost the same or less than the one's he sells for cheaper. He can just run sales specials as inventory back's up.

I did find this more recent article interesting:

" Is the EU really dictating the shape of your bananas?
https://www.theguardian.com/politic...launches-the-vote-leave-battlebus-in-cornwall
Boris Johnson says EU laws about vacuum cleaners and bananas are ‘crazy’. We take a look at whether he is right"

 

Good article.
The law penalised Chiquita in the sense that you could no longer import and sell bananas from Chiquita, quality had nothing to do with it. Chiquita which produces at massive industrial scale, has the cheapest bananas, if you can't get the bananas from them you try to get them from other countries. It is purely because some EU member states wanted to favour the import of bananas from certain countries which they have special ties with, and they managed to do this using technicalities. Technical specifications are often used as a trade barrier in international trade.

But let's not derail this thread any further.

 

On the old Omen 17 (2016, Skylake) there is a section of the heatsink missing a thermal pad to cover the CPU VRM.In the new Omen 17 (2017, Kabylake) HP just decided to remove that section altogether.








And for some reason I'm missing three screw on the bottom GPU VRAM / VRM section. However you can nab the screws off the exhaust grille while waiting for HP to send you replacement or void your warranty for opening the laptop, either way works.









@D2 Ultima @bloodhawk @Papusan @Raidriar @jaybee83

 

Good old HP... LOL. What a joke.

 

Well the same old OEM's trying to save pennies.

 

The funny thing is that the old Omen 17 (2016, Skylake) had a much better heatsink than this.


But either way, both models suck.

 

Damn, have Azor the foot in the door aka influence also in HP Hq? Save money on screws. Either with TRIPOD or missing screws, LOL

 

And, I suspect that none of us have a surprised look on our faces.

 

Depending on loading and temperatures of the heatsinks it may not help to have them covered. You would need to thermally probe to find out what is going on for sure.

 

If the buyers don't open their laptops or are clueless and don't understand tech, the OEMs will save money On screws, HeHe
A few pennies here and there can be a fortune in the end Super Glue will be the next. Of course of cheapest quality!!

 

Unlike Alienware, the HP uses 4 screw mounting solution but with flimsy arms.

If you can recommend which probe model to buy, sure.

 

Is it a quanta production? or compal?

 

How can I know?


I'd take a guess and maybe say Compal because on their website it shows some HP products, but I don't know for sure. http://www.compal.com/

 

I didn't expect much from HP, but Alienware has changed definitely since the glory days. They have always had good quality HS and qc. Everything has now changed to the worse. Both hardware and their Premium Support!! What's point with a good quality chassis of metal and bling bling if the cooling is gimped? All new thin and flimsy today use inadequate heatsink and mounting mechanism. I'm sure if they used $5 on better HS and qc everything would have been better.

Clevo's desktop models have good quality HS and mounting mechanism but they miss bad on QC. The next best cooling is the bigger MSIbooks + the Barbones from MSI. The rest out there is a big mess!! A tragedy.

 

Any laser dot sensor or if you want to get fancy the flir phone add on would do the trick to see what the VRMs reach under load.

 

I've had mixed results with their support, but mostly good.

 

I used to be an HP fanboy and their miserable warranty service and tech support drove me to Dell/Alienware. Absolutely horrendous and I swore after the third run-around with those goons from HP that I would never buy another product made my HP for the rest of my life. And, I have not. After kicking them to the curb and jumping to Dell, I never had any regrets until Dellienware started building only BGA trashbooks, and they have continued to circle the drain since I switched to Clevo. Now even their overpriced desktops are totally rubbish, with very poor support. If you bought a desktop with a 6700K CPU, they expect you to buy a new desktop to get a 7700K CPU, LOL. No BIOS updates... sell, sell, sell, sell, sell... screw the customers. Let them figure out what to do with the garbage they buy... not Dellienware's problem.

 

Any laser dot model that you recommend?

 

Anything not silly cheap should do, you don't need massive accuracy levels.

 

But you can only measure when the laptop bottom chassis is open though.


I'll get one nonetheless.

 

They work well and are not very expensive. https://www.amazon.com/ANGGO-Infrared-Temperature-Thermometer-Backlight/dp/B01FYVEJMY
The only problem I have had with it is the grandkids sneaking it out of my office thinking it is something cool to play with. But, it is kind of cool to play with.
If you have a cat or a dog, you can also use it to drive them nuts chasing the laser pointer, so there are also other applications for it, LOL.

 

Does anyone know anything about the stick on thermocouples that Gamers Nexus use to measure VRM temps in their testing?

FIR thermometer is extremely useful but can't see whats under heatsinks unfortunately

 

I don't have any info on those items, but in the context of the discussion here @Meaker@Sager was suggesting that to @Mobius 1 to check thermals on things that were provided no cooling solution, such as bare components. The infrared thermometers work great for that purpose. It would be nice to have a source for the other thing you are referring to.

 

See their video on them called EVGA VRM test planning.

 

In case temps can either be worse or better depending on airflow but we are just looking for rough ideas.

 

LOL... looks like the muppets at Alienware Community are censoring anything that is negative about their brand now. Pretty pathetic don't you think @Cass-Olé ? Below is the email I got from them.

Others feel free to chime in about their lameness. https://community.dell.com/message/133995?commentID=133995#comment-133995

 

Yeah, and not the first time and not the last time this will happen Fox. Everything that smells Alienware or Razer's own social media/forum... is exactly like this This tells everything about their products!! And I'm sure the fan boys will deny it. @Mobius 1

 

I guess the only way they can keep from going down is by playing the role of Thought Nazis. Pretty bad when Alienware has to resort to Razer behavior.

 

I see you put 3 in monkeys. This below is 3 different threads with about the same question in a row on Dell community. 3 different answers, but all 3 give about the same answer. Dell should really put in (developed) a autoresponder into their software and close the question thread after Final answer Maybe they then could avoided censoring negativity about their crippled hardware/firmware Btw. FYI Alienware is Dell now!! This Info is intended for people who didn't know!!

 

But why? ....

Maybe the thermal solution isn't enough to work withj 7700k, so they avoid it by doing this

 

for these


they need to sell new systems

 

Was it instant? I wouldn't put it past them to filter on certain terms and reject posts based on the filter.

 

If Dell/AW keeps doing stuff like these, they're also killing their own userbase. Which is good.

Thermal solution, mounting, cooling capacity, motherboard layout. Identical among Z270 and Z170. Either motherboard can use 6/7th gen with a simple bios update unless someone is playing a happy merchant behind the scene.

Manually removed by the moderators, I saw the post before it was taken down.

 

Would hate to have that job. I had figured they just would flag every possible [negative word]book variant and blanket-remove.

 

Same here. But I guess whoever did that doesn't have any clue of what a performance computer is.

 

I was a part of a Romanian PC something something forum until they started literally editing every single post. I don't understand those people...

An admin would go over and edit every single post I posted for format and grammar. Romanian grammar. Because I wrote things in English because we don't have proper names for them in Romanian... Man...

 

Can you link me an example of that?

 

I can still see @Brother Fox's post *shrug* ... perhaps his post is currently on 'life support' ... like Baby Charlie was over in the UK last month

Yes, notice the Alien employee try to paint R5 as a high-end desktop while simultaneously saying it failed validation 7700k turns that whole system into a bad idea, I love it

I'm onboard with the corporate greed / 'we owe them nothing!' angle 1st & foremost, but I can get far more mileage out of 'we withheld the BIOS update in attempt to spare our company's reputation for building an inferior incapable product from the get-go' ... ie if our customers install 7700k, it'll break their toy systems in two

At any rate, I dig their 1st attempt to say the mthrbrd/chipset are incompatible ... that's far less pressure than to admit to your owner's community that their systems can't handle it, meaning the mthrbrd is incompatible (junk) because it failed rigorous testing

Wholly inappropriate to threaten to censor Brother Fox for calling a spade a spade, and a dead-end desktop no better than BGA

 

Nope. the censoring came later. I edited it and removed some of my onerous tone and they approved it. Apparently, they did not like the word "trashbooks" and the insinuation the lack of support is due to incompetence and greed. Still kind of sucks that they want to censor opinions like that, but hey... their forum. They can do what they want, I suppose.

You can see it because I edited it and they "approved" the watered down version. It says basically the same thing in a somewhat less damaging manner.

Or, maybe they saw my tweets and Facepoot posts with the screen shot of my email from them slamming their censoring and decided to let me repost it.

 

Well... Every single Z170 and Z270 motherboard has become a dead-end option with Coffee Lake, hasn't it?

I choose AMD for the upgrade potential, even if Ryzen offers worse single-threaded performance than Kaby Lake does today. AM4 can be used until 2021, whereas with Intel, we have seen three chipsets in the span of 2 years.

I wince at everyone chasing performance, because it is a terrible waste of money.

 

Just a question though, I'm pretty sure you have some friends with an R5. If you update the bios and install a 7700K, would the machine actually work?

 

Sure
https://www.mygarage.ro/showthread.php?p=3632077#post3632077

I opened this thread, asking for help with my SSD overheating. I was basically looking to locate SSD coolers in Romania.

If you look closely at the very bottom of each post, it was edited by someone else...

 

not too long ago someone who bought 7700k ahead of time, thinking it a no-brainer upgrade, got nowhere on latest R5 Bios, while attempt with R6 Bios = 'error, can not proceed with firmware flash'

@Brother Fox, your 'negotiated' post is still a win, so long as it states a warning from buying an Alien product. Alien employee called out for lying then squeezed into admitting truth, just the whole thread should be an eye-opener for the deficiency of the product itself and what 'support' looks and sounds like after u bought it. The damage exists in all four corners of that thread now, everyone helped tank it

when buyers spend from $3000 to what we see above as fully optioned, these aren't chump-change

 

I put it Here as a warning in this thread as well!!

Remember the old days? When you could upgrade your ALIENWARE with next gen processors... THIS IN LAPTOPS!! Now is everything of upgrades dead. Even for desktops!!

 

When you get down to brass tacks, almost everything is a waste of money if it doesn't make you money. If you take that to the extreme, it's all going to burn and we can't take any of it with us when we go. We (human beings) allow ourselves latitude to spend money on things we enjoy. If a person enjoys overclocking and benching, it's not any more of a waste of money than having a fancy car or a boat, or raising horses or dogs, goats or llamas, as a hobby. In fact, it is actually a lot less expensive than those things.

If all a person does is play games, and they live and breathe playing games, they might want a crazy powerful CPU and GPU "just because" they do. They absolutely do not need either one to do that, but there's nothing wrong with going nuts if they have the financial resources to do that. It could be seen by some as a waste of money on the basis that having a 16C/32T CPU running 8.0GHz (exaggeration, I know,) and a 1080 Ti (or Titan SLI, or Vega 64 CF, or whatever else you want to insert) simply because those monster components are totally unnecessary to play games like a pro. They can play most of the same games on a $500 console or an USFF "desktop" with soldered filth inside of it and have a blast, too.

As far as upgrades are concerned, it depends on where you start and end, and what your objectives are. If you choose a flagship CPU there is no upgrade path because you already have the best available for that platform. If you have any lesser CPU, the upgrade can be meaningful. Being able to do that means a lot. Say, for example, you bought a machine with an i5-6600 CPU. Going from that to a 6700K is amazing, and going to 7700K is even more of a jump. Can't do that with BGA of course, but the point is you are not locked into a fixed configuration.

There always have been and always will be limits to upgrades. If you had a 4790K you could not go to a 4960X... different socket and chipset, which is no different than not being able to upgrade to SKL-X, KBL-X or CFL. This is mostly unavoidable due to changes in platforms. But, it doesn't diminish the value of having a wide range of flexibility within a given platform.