Brand spanking new NP9872 wont get past SAGER boot screen

Hey all,

So I got my nice new shiny NP9872 (from XIDAX computers), and I added 32GB RAM, 2 960 EVO drives (one boot/os, one programs), and a 1TB spinner. Installed Windows 10 Pro.. all was great. Used it a few times, no problem. Had it sitting for about a week or so, just went to turn it on, and the lovely SAGER opening lettering shows up..and then thats it. Just sits there. I let it go for 30 minutes hoping it was doing something and would show up. Nope. Rebooted several times, no go.

I am praying that it is not a serious issue, but I cant imagine why a machine would turn on then just sit there unless it was a m/b issue. Especially when it all worked a week earlier just fine.

I have since tried opening it back up, looking for some bios/cmos reset, but cant find one, and cant find the dang manual (who keeps those anyway)? Low and behold, the manual download is an EXE file which my now dead laptop is the only Windows box I got (or had). I removed the bios battery, hoping that would do something, nothing.

So.. any ideas? Is there a CMOS switch/button somewhere?

Thank you.

 

There is a CMOS battery which you can disconnect. I think @Mr. Fox might be best to tell you where this is located.

However there is a method, holding FN + D when turning it on should clear NVRAM and maybe cause you to boot. I don't remember the exact method, but someone will show up and help you with it soon most likely. =D. Maybe @Phoenix might know properly?

 

Thank you. I saw that FN D thing and tried that. Nothing. I also removed the battery for 30 seconds, tried putting it back, still same thing.

Wouldnt you know it, I just got this thing a bit over a week ago, and already the new one with the new 7th gen cpu and full RGB LED keyboard is not only available, but $250 less than what I just paid for older tech!! Ugh! Maybe Ill have to send this thing back and see if they can swap me out for the new one. Just very frustrating.. kind of worries me about these desktop in laptop case systems.. I am hoping this is just a lemon and that if I can get it figured out or replaced, it isnt something that happens to a lot of people.

 

Try taking the CMOS battery out, should be under the keyboard. and make sure the power adapter is unplugged.
Leave them out for about 30 seconds. And then turn it on. The first boot should take a but longer.

 

You could try pulling out your hardware updates, and putting everything back to stock - since you need to do that to return it anyway - and then try the boot or reset / boot.

 

Ok.. so I did take out cmos battery, did not have adapter plugged in, and turned it on..but I dont think I waited 30 seconds. I did remove all add on hardware except the boot drive, which I will now try putting the original back in and see what happens. Oddly, after that one time letting it sit for about 30 minutes, the heat pipe over the CPU was VERY hot. I even had the extra cpu/gpu cooling package added (which looks like they stuck on some copper heat sinks on the heat pipes is all). I wouldnt think the heat pipe would be so hot with the system just sitting there not even booting.

 

Did you disconnect the main Battery too?

 

Should I turn the laptop on without the cmos battery in? Or just put it back in after 30 seconds or so and turn it on?

 

Wait did you turn it on with the CMOS battery and adapter? Or after putting them back in.
Gotta let it sit for 30 seconds, then put things back in, and then turn it on. The first boot after that will be about a minute or so and will tell you that the CMOS/NVRAM has been reset.

 

Lets rewind a bit first

When you unplug the main power cord, the internal main battery is still in use, so you can't unplug and plug in internal hardware while that battery is connected - you may fry RAM, Storage, etc as you unplug and plug in stuff while power from the main battery is live - connected.

When you mentioned a hot heatpipe, that's why it was hot.

It's always good to remove both batteries when resetting the CMOS too, and waiting for the 30 seconds or longer is allowing the circuits to drain power so none of it makes it's way around the laptop.

When you have a desktop and pull the power cord and pull the CMOS battery - or press reset - there is no main battery to power things - sp disconnect the main battery in the laptop before working on the internals or resetting the CMOS / power circuit.

 

Both times I did not have adaptor in.

So this time it worked! I put the original drive back in, took my extra memory out and other drives. I took the battery out for about a minute or so, put it back in, then turned it on. It turned on then off. I turned it on again.. it then gave me a blue dialog with a message about cmos battery is bad or reset. It then reboot, and voila! Booted into Windows.

Ok.. so assuming that this fixes things.. and maybe I can put things back in and make it work again.. what would cause this to happen? I mean, its a bit over a week old, only used it about 8 hours total (after I installed new SSD drives, 32GB memory, etc), and then let it sit for a week or so.

That has me a little worried.. I hate not knowing what would have caused me to have to pull the cmos battery to get things working again.

 

No..did not disconnect the main battery @hmscott should I have?

 

But, you did have the main battery connected, which was providing power to the laptop - just like the power adapter does, but less wattage.

That can damage components as you unplug them and plug them in. You are lucky you didn't fry your RAM and storage components if you indeed swapped them out while the internal MAIN battery was connected.

Good news that it's all working again

This gets reported frequently for Clevo laptops, so it's just a state they enter once in a while - your's will likely have it happen again in the future.

At least you know how to fix it now

 

When doing any internal work on the laptop, swapping parts in and out, it's a good idea to disconnect the internal main power battery and the external power cord.

For the longest time when we had removeable batteries, we all removed them as part of opening the laptop up, so we didn't really need to think about it.

Now, with non-removeable batteries, it's easily forgotten.

You may get lucky, you may not. Zapping the parts in and out while the battery was still connected likely caused the "power up freeze" problem.

Definitely don't "accidentally" push the power button while you have the laptop pulled apart with the main battery connected

 

Interesting. I wouldnt have thought the battery being connected while power is off is a problem. I do usually pull the AC cord out of the power supply on my desktops, but you are right in that I dont think most people think about the battery of the laptop.

I will say that after I put in all the other components, with the battery connected, it all worked fine. Several times. It was only after letting it sit for a week without being plugged in, that this issue came up.

I do see from time to time another issue, when I turn it on, I see the SAGER word in 16 different locations (like a 4 x 4 grid). Seems to boot still, but it is as if it has video resolution mismatch or something. Not sure why that occurs, but again, kinda worries me.

I am surprised their isnt an easier way to reset the CMOS without having to open it up and undo the keyboard and pop it out of the way if this is such an issue with these laptops. I love the power/expand-ability of this thing, but I need it to be reliable more than anything. I cant show up to a demo and have my laptop decide to freeze up!

 

No, leaving the main battery in doesnt matter as much with the system. Specially if you are only looking to reset the CMOS/NVRAM. It is necessary however when you want to clear the EC Cache.
If you are not properly ground, having the battery in or not wont matter at that point.

What is the frequency of your memory ?

 

My 32GB (2x16) is Vengeance 2666Mhz memory. However, the original 16GB is still in as well, which is 2133 I believe, so it should reduce the 32GB to that speed. Like I said it worked for hours already with no issues like this, so I would assume that if that was an issue, it would show up pretty quickly after installing the upgraded memory.

 

Power is power, whether it comes from the AC Cord / DC cord from the Adapter, or from the internal Main Battery, it's gonna power the internal components - live voltage still connected - arc'n spark time. Pzzzap!

It's worse than simple static voltage. It's worse than storage power - that's why you are supposed to remove all power and let a device sit for a while before touching it - give time for the power to bleed out of all the circuits.

Power won't bleed out if it's still connected - the Main Battery provides power to the internals as long as it is connected.

Anyway, if you disconnected the DC power from the adapter and disconnected the main battery before pulling / swapping parts, I am suggesting this problem would have never happened.

It's not gonna just happen on it's own, something causes these situations that result in a power reset being required.

I wouldn't worry about it, so far once everyone figures out all the "moving parts" it stops happening to them

 

Umm, here is the first problem. Never mix different frequency of memory together. Because mostly the timings are totally different on different frequency kits.
Initially they might work, but the moment the EC clears or something else happens, they will refuse to boot. Specially on laptops.

So either use the 2666Mhz or the 2133 Mhz.

 

Ahhh, yeah, don't do that

You don't want to run with 2 different specs of memory, or 2 different speed, or single / dual channel, or 2 different vendors product plugged in at the same time - you checked all the boxes of what not to mix if you want reliable memory function.

I'd pull that original memory and set it aside for RMA work or for when you eventually sell the laptop.

Only run on the new memory, installed in the correct Dual Channel slots.

Good thing you mentioned this, it's gonna save you a lot of time trying to figure out random crashes and inconsistent performance.

 

Heh.. funny thing is I do know this..but blanked as I usually buy entire kits at one time. Just spent so much on the laptop and SSD that I was out of funds. Goal is to have 64GB of all same memory.. other 32GB kit is in my saved list for the next time I have some funds.

My concern now is.. should I RMA while I still am under warranty.. ideally exchanging it for the new 7th gen version of the same laptop (which like I said is $250 cheaper).. Ill even eat the cost difference if it ensures I got a new system... just worried that this could be the start of ongoing problems and perhaps I got a crappy board. Could also very well be just my screw up with RAM speed differences. I recall that you could have mixed RAM (in pairs though) and memory would result in the slower of the two pairs. But, I have never ran it that way before and intended on upgrading soon.

What would be the cause then of the screen sometimes on boot showing 16 SAGER logos (in a 4 x 4 grid) distorted, and sometimes it shows just the one that is readable?

 

That might be a totally different issue all together. Have had any issues while running demanding games?

 

Believe it or not, I havent done much other than some basic use..no gaming, etc yet. It is only on boot that I see that strange SAGER logo thing happen. Just reminds me of a mismatch between video and screen/monitor resolution capabilities. Was hoping someone else has seen that issue.. although I am hijacking the original thread so not exactly the best place to find out.

 

Theoretically you will operate at the lower of the 2 speeds, but in real life it's an unknown - best to be avoided if you have a choice.

Since you are already planning on swapping out the original 16GB for another pair of the same 2x16GB you bought, then I'd pull that 16GB "odd duck" now and you can set it on the shelf and forget about it.

I guess I should also mention that it's best to purchase memory as matched pairs, or sets in the case of a 4x configuration. Make sure it's an actual matched set from the maker, and not just a couple of 2x's someones picked out of the box

I could go on and explain several really long personal experiences with 100's-1000's of servers set up with incorrectly matching memory that "was supposed to have worked" according to vendor specs and instructions, but as it turns out the software (OS and application) can be sensitive to the difference and can cause failures.

Following the matching memory rules is better to do upfront than gambling on mixed memory working (for every software) long term.

 

The strange video at startup can be a number of things, but it's not worriesome at the moment. I'd ignore it. @Prema @Phoenix any ideas?

Pull the odd memory SODIMM, see if that solves the start up oddness.

Don't forget to disconnect the main external power and internal battery before swapping out that memory

It's your thread, take it where you want it to go

 

Oh hey, I just remembered you are likely running Windows 10...

Hybrid shutdown and start up - named Fast Startup, doesn't do a complete shutdown.

I am pretty sure it uses Hibernation, and doesn't use Sleep at all - but I could be wrong. If it is using Sleep in some modes, then your RAM is powered when "powered off".

I always disable Hibernation (don't just disable FastStartup !), which these things depend on, so I don't need to worry about that - sleep / hibernation is always getting broken by Nvidia and MS, so I just gave up on it years ago.

Disable Hibernation by running this in a cmd Window - Start As Administrator:

powercfg /h off

Then reboot. Your C:\hiberfil.ssy will disappear - saving you 1x RAM size off your boot drive, big win there

That will insure your shutdowns are real power down situations

 

While that is true for most laptops, for the P870DM-G and P870DM3 (and probably other Clevo models, including some older models I am not aware of first-hand,) do not keep power to the board with the AC adapter disconnected. After about 30 seconds the battery power is also removed. This is why removing the CMOS battery without removing the main battery clears NVRAM with the AC adapter disconnected. This is also why after flashing a @Prema BIOS mod you disconnect the AC adapter for 30 seconds, but do not have to disconnect the main system battery. You have to actually press the power button for the battery to re-connect power to the board. In fact, the USB power-to-go port for charging peripherals without the machine running does not even work unless you press the power button once to re-connect the battery to the board. If anyone has noticed you either have to press the power button twice or long-press the power button before your Clevo powers on, this is why. It's a nice safety feature. If you are working on the insides, like pulling out CPU, GPU(s), etc. it is still a good idea to pull out the main battery anyway.

 

I'd like to leave newbies with that thought as the single thing to remember long term.

 

Alright.. so I think I narrowed it down.. after all that.. it seems to be my main 960 EVO SSD (256GB). When I put the original 950 Pro in, it fires up. I thought it was the new memory, so I put old memory in, but it works with both as well (e.g. new or old, not using both together anymore). The other 960 EVO SSD in the 2nd slot (as it is not a boot/windows setup), with the 950 works and shows up. As well as my 2TB spinner. When I put the "bad" SSD in either slot, the SAGER logo shows up, and it just sits, forever.

So now the question is.. WTH would have caused my shiny new 960 EVO that I had spent a few hours setting up, to just die?? I know various things could be the culprit, but it worked, several times, for a few days just fine. Then no use for a week or so and bam, dead. At a loss as to what would cause it to just die like that. Now we will see if my 950 dies or not.. if it dies too then I have to assume something wrong with the m/b causing the primary M.2 SSD slot to die.

Hoping to RMA it.. $129 is not bad given how fast/good the 960s are. Or.. at least I thought they were...

 

where is the USB port for charging devices? I never knew there was one like in the AW18 where it had one port with a little electricity icon

now I know the mystery behind having to long press or double press the power button if you are trying to power on the laptop. thanks for that

on a side note, I've always swapped CPUs, and WLAN cards with the battery still connected but no power obviously

 

Infant mortality is a real thing, stuff fails in the first hours, days, weeks of use - something's wrong with it and that's that.

It could have been being put in and out with power on it could have "weakened it", or it just plain failed in use.

I would say it failed in use after a few days, please send replacement.

 

This.

@Kevin Duffey - Maybe Samsung will oblige to tell you what, specifically, failed when you RMA the drive. Obviously what's more important is how it's handled.