Can't decide between 9150 and 9370, any advice for 15" vs 17"?

Hi guys!

I've been looking around and have decided on the specs I wants which would be a 7970M graphics card

However, right now I can't decide between the 9150 and the 9370.

9150:
I like that it could possibly be portable, however I might be a little hesitate with the whole enduro driver issue thing.
Another thing may also be that since I'm planning to run a dual monitor set up with my 24" screen, running 100% dpi would mean that the words on the laptop's screen will be too small and running 125% dpi would mean that the words on my 24" would look slightly too big, I plan to run it at 100% dpi.

9370:
I think a bigger screen is nice, furthermore since it has no switchable graphics there is less of a headache with trying to get the card used to its max potential.
However, what is making me hesitate is that it might be simply too big. Just comparing numbers I'm losing about 1.5" from each side (L & W). My main concern is that I might need to bring it around and it would be too bulky, or that it would take up too much of my desk.
Another point, (and perhaps this is thinking too far ahead), is that when it is time to sell the laptop to upgrade/etc, in the 2nd hard market, it would probably be much harder to sell a 17" compared to a 15" wouldn't it?


I know this is kinda ranty, and it might be completely up to personal preference. I don't expect anyone to make their decision for me.

However, if anyone who also experienced the same dilemma before, or anyone else who has some advice to share, would gladly appreciate hearing your side of the story.

Thanks in advance!

 

Keep in mind:
1.) 370EM will be hard to sell (big size, too heavy, wont support haswell).
2.) 370EM has a huge and heavy power brick (big surprise there, in addition to being heavy and big itself)
3.) 370EM has mediocre battery life, and you cant play games on battery (batteries wear-off fast when overloaded)
4.) 370EM will be hard to find a backpack for. Sleeves won't fit (only 18.4" sleeves might).

Here is my opinion on things.
First off, the "user upgradeable" part of a laptop is only a myth.
Clevo doesent officially support next gen videocards for their last gen laptops, so you are stuck hoping for a modded BIOS and/or V-BIOS.
Second - the costs to upgrade the videocard are phenomenal. And you are stuck with the old one, hoping to sell it (which can take months sometimes).
Third - with modded BIOS and V-BIOS, your warranty goes in the trash bin. If you brick your machine in the process - the tab is on you.
Fourth - drivers....sometimes with modded V-BIOS, the drivers tend to have issues.
Fifth - you CANNOT upgrade the CPU to a next-gen Haswell. Not happening. Then what do you get? You can only upgrade the videocard, IF the machine supports it OR someone mods a BIOS for it.
So, laptops are not nearly as user-upgradeable as you might expect.

So what happens if you buy a 370EM:
First off, you are buying a Desktop Replacement, not a laptop. If you dont plan on keeping it for at least 2 years, then dont buy it.
Selling it second-hand will be a headache, as its not a laptop, therefore not portable, it will get old in the coming 3-4 months and the price will plummit to the ground.
With no battery life, large size, dead weight, humongous power supply (with NO OPTION TO BUY A SMALLER ONE), not to mention buying a second PSU is a damn ripp-off 139EUR, you are pretty much stuck with it. If someone does want to buy it, then he will offer you no more than 50% of its initial price (or even less).
The chassis is also not optimal in my opinion.
If you want to exchange the primary HDD (or SSD), you need to remove the secondary as well, as the primary is UNDER the secondary. Not a good layout if you ask me.
And cleaning that monster is hard work, there are heatsinks everywhere, a whooping count of 3 fans to clean and lot of holes in the backplate where dust will be sucked in.

I was in the same position as you just a month ago, and I made a wise decision regarding future laptop purchases. Here is what I came to:
1.) I want a laptop, not a Desktop Replacement.
- Laptops are portable, have good battery life, regular size (meaning its easy to find a backpack and sleeve) and normal weight.
- A laptop doesent sacrifice CPU power, only the GPU might be weaker (not talking about XM processors and overclocking, this is not what I want at all)
- The price for a laptop is usually a lot cheaper than a Desktop Replacement
- You can buy an universal power supply really cheap for your laptop! DTRs are just stuck with their original PSUs which are big, expensive and heavy.
2.) Laptops have more longevity in terms of price than Desktop Replacements.
- This is due to their battery life
- Its also easy to find a spare battery for a laptop than a DTR
- More people will be interested in buying it when you are about to sell it
3.) You can upgrade to a new laptop every year if you want to
- Selling your cheap laptop for 60-70% of its original price is a reality
- Every year there are better CPUs and GPUs and you will be always with the latest tech
- You can keep your universal power supply and backpack for your next laptop!
- Power consumption stays the same, performance rises with 30-50% overall!

I owned the P150HM and saw what a big 180W power supply really is. And I didnt like it at all. Carrying this thing is NO FUN. Now imagine the 300W PSU on the 370EM!! IMAGINE IT!
Finding a spare power supply that I can leave at work, to avoid carrying one, was a failure - there just ISNT ANY universal PSU with 180W on the market.
Didnt want to pay 120EUR and wait 2 weeks for another PSU from my reseller.

This year around, I bought my W370ET and I love it. Its a laptop, with regular size.
Funny thing is, its 17.3" and weighs the same as my 15.6" desktop replacement, lol
Even funnier is the fact that it actually weighs less than my 15.6", because the power supply is a 120W one and its also smaller, with thinner cables

Next year I plan on upgrading to another laptop, probably with a Nvidia gtx760m and a 700-series Haswell CPU (the 700series Core i7 CPU's have proven to be the best value IMHO)
It will be a Clevo again, as Im totally in love with Clevos. Easy access to components, lots of customization, excellent cooling system, cheap price and so on.

If I were you, Id buy a W370ET, save cash and play games on lower settings. But you will be able to easily carry it around, have good battery life and enjoy doing college work on it!
I hope this helped you with your decision. If it did....then +rep me

 

As b0b has pointed out, everything is a trade off, you can pack a MASSIVE hardware punch in the P150EM, especially if you know how to tweak it. But at stock you can get dual graphics card performance and 17.3" display with 2 hard drives and an Msata drive along with optical drive in the P370em, not something you can do with the P150EM.

Also the P370em does not have to worry about optimus or enduro, you can just get the best frame rate each company offers.

 

If you can suggest a laptop with a good screen, good speakers, good build quality, and good ergonomics, I'll gladly agree.

 

MSI GT series? Or their barebones.

Best built in speakers out there, can fit all the screens that anyone else can, steelseries high quality keyboards...

 

I was actually looking for "regular-sized" laptops, but you've confirmed my suspicion that I might have to go for a DTR to find all of those things.

 

Well, the biggest problem in Clevo right now is this: good speakers.
I guess, to keep prices low, they didnt invest in that part of their chassis.

Still, for best bang-for-the-buck, W370ET is the way to go.

Otherwise, if all above mentioned points (in my post) dont apply, then get P370EM. It will crush trough games like a bulldozer. But you really need to keep it for at least 2 years for it to pay off. Otherwise if you plan on upgrading, I assure you, it could potentially be a nightmare.

Also, if you plan on having 2 power bricks, make sure you order the machine with 2. Otherwise, ordering down the road would cost you with that extra shipping. Remember, there arent any universal PSU's for that monster.

P.S. The MSI GT-series might be more ideal for you if you are looking at Speaker Quality and upgrading the graphics card later on. As I see it, a GT70 will be smaller in size compared to P370EM, has better battery life and you could upgrade the videocard more easily - the MSI BIOS allows different brand cards in it, even those manufactured by Clevo will work.

Choose wisely!

 

Well I would go with the GT60 or 16F3 barebone because they are 15.6", can take the GTX680M and Core i7. They have 2 hard drive bays and an optical drive and a great keyboard.

If you splash out and go for a high end GT60 you can get one of the HDD slots swapped out for a dual mSATA board letting you have 3 SSDs (1 2.5" and 2 mSATA) along with an optical drive still....

The GT70 and it's barebones are identical but have the larger screen so it's just which size you like best.

 

This was extremely helpful for me!

I would probably look at a 15".

Is the 9150 bigger than the MSI 15"?

Another thing about the high end GT60 is that it's wayyy too expensive, almost 1.8k? Even the 675M-GT60 is 1.5k, which is the same price if i configured a 9150 with a 7970m

 

No the 9150 is smaller, party because it has smaller speakers but largely because it has one less hard drive bay.

 

Stick with 15" if you are going to travel with it at all (unless you drive everywhere). Value wise, they drop at similar rate, considering that m18x have plenty of market.

 

Well, to be honest my laptop would most likely sit on my desk for like 90% of the time.

I do bring it around occasionally.

As one of the posters mentioned, it's getting rid of it that might prove to be a hassle?

Is there really a market for 2nd hand 17" laptops? Wouldn't most people who are looking at 17" laptops looking for performance and would rather get new ones?

 

Well mostly people have been upgrading theirs with new graphics cards as CPUs have been much faster than GPUs in notebooks.

 

Yeah, then what happens when they want to get rid of it?

ugh so hard to decide T_T

 

By then any computer you buy will have lost value, computers are not an investment i'm afraid.

 

Go the 150EM, every time I find myself wishing I had a bigger display I remember just how nice it is to have this much power in a 6.5lb case, yes the brick is a bit unwieldy but still nothing that will majorly impact mobility. Also if you're looking into MSI keep in mind that their products are of lower build quality than comparable Alienware/Clevos, it's not anything major but it is noticeable.

 

Nah. I probably will stick to my choice of either 9150 or 9370.

Do you bring your laptop around alot?

@Meaker, and I totally get what you mean, however, what I'm trying to say is that let's say in a year if I want to sell it and upgrade.
I still might be able to fetch a reasonable price for a 15" laptop since there might still be a potentially larger 2nd hand market for 15" laptops as compared to a 17" laptop (where the owners usually want something which is high performance).

Wouldn't it be easier to sell a 15" since it's the more accepted laptop size?

 

Not really in this performance class since weight is similar.

 

You say you want to choose between 15" and 17", but if that is the case than then the P170EM is also a possible choice. It is basically the same machine as the P150EM, but with a 17"screen and one more drive bay. If you're just browsing the internet etc. then the P150EM/P170EM will use the Intel graphics, nice if you're running on batteries. The P370EM will use the AMD/Nvidia card. In all cases you will have that enormous power supply, obviously if your system (CPU & GPU) is using a lot of power you need a big power supply. I'm not carrying my notebook around that much, so the big size is less of an issue. However it is nice to have a big screen when you're using the notebook (not carrying it ), so I replaced my previous 17" notebook by another 17" notebook. I even looked at 18" notebooks, but at the moment there are no real high-end 18" notebooks on the market. The sound of a notebook is never very good, so I bought a Logitech Z305 speaker set. You clip it on to your screen, put the USB plug in, and you have a far better and louder sound than any notebook has. The Z305 is out of production as far as I know, so if you want one try to get it now. I bought a notebook with an Nvidia card because of the CUDO drivers. Many photo and video editing programs can use the Nvidia card for their calculations. It will speed up the work enormously. And since you're using the Intel graphics at that moment, the programs can exclusively use the Nvidia card.

 

you said you replaced your 17" laptop with another one.. what happened to your old one? did you sell it or just keep it? was it easy to sell?

 

The old one is a Fujitsu Siemens Amilo Xi2550. I bought it about four years ago, and at the time it was a really expensive high end notebook with a T9300 cpu. In the last year I replaced the battery and both disks (raid 1 set). The battery went dead, and one of the disks also died. Then two months ago the screen gave up. At first it looked like a very expensive job to replace it, so I bought my new Clevo. I also wanted a new notebook because I need to run some software that requires its own cpu core(s), and the 4GB memory wasn't adequate any more either. However since then I found out that I can get a new matte 1900x1200 display for a reasonable price, and that the 965 chipset accepts 8GB DDR2 memory instead of the official 4GB. I also could get a free official copy of Windows 7 Ultimate. The screen hasn't arrived yet, and one of the 4GB SODIMMs still has to arrive as well, but I've been able to use the TV as display and install Windows. The Fujitsu is actually quite fast now (it also has built in flash as cache), and once everything has been fixed I'm going to give it to my 14yr old niece. It will be as least as good as any not too expensive new notebook, and with a much better screen. I'm sure she can use for another 4 years or so.

 

Core 2 based machines are still pretty nimble for day to day stuff and with a 1920x1200 display, that's a lot of lovely screen real estate.

 

Exactly, With 2.5GHz clock speed the T9300 was one of the fastest mobile cpus from the then brand new Penryn series. By installing 8GB I can avoid swapping, even if the then also top-of-the-line ATI X2700 GPU takes some of the main memory besides its own 256MB video memory. Swapping is what you want to avoid after all, that makes any PC slow. Furthermore it has 3 USB 2.0 ports (one powered), a Firewire and an e-sata port, HDMI, S-video and VGA video ports, 1Gb and dual channel WiFi network ports, and even a small Infrared remote controller for the Microsoft Media Centre software. Even for today's standards it is still a very decent notebook.

 

Better than a netbook that's for sure.

 

No, that would be wrong. You can install the 7970M in all the models from last year. And the 680M installs fine by default.

Just have to look for the deals. I know someone who got his 680M for less than the cost of a 7970M and he was able to sell his 6970M making the upgrade reasonable.

That may be true, but I don't know anyone who had issues with their warranty with the BIOS flash failed. Never seen a post of someone being told the tab was on them. This as far as I'm concerned, is a non-issue

Yeah, this is new to me. I ran modded vBIOS with my G73JH for years and not a single issue with drivers. Did the same with my old G1 and not a single issue. Never seen a post on NBR about someone having issues with drivers with their modded BIOS/vBIOS.

So what. Desktops with Ivey can't upgrade to Haswell either. Your example is poor. Not only that, the performance boost from Haswell is unlikely to be ground breaking. By then someone can just upgrade to an XM Ivey which should performance better than most Haswell.

Not true. I see on NBR plenty of X7200 and M18X being sold at incredibly high prices and most of them nearly a year later. The cleaning takes a few minutes. You take an air can, just spray, done. Also don't need a 2nd PSU if you don't go with SLI/CFX and XM CPU.

Anyway for the OP, just go with whatever you want. There are cons and pros to all of it. I personally went smaller since I have good eye sight, no issues with smaller screen and small DPI and also because I was finding the 17.3" to be too large for me.

 

Very much agree with your upgrading comments.

It just comes down to notebooks being very personal devices with no one size fits all.

I know which my wife would prefer between an M18X fully kitted out an an ultrabook for instance.

 

To the OP: I have both a 17" and 15". I use the big one mostly on my desk at home, use the other because I have 2 offices across the county from each other and travel between them each day. When I had just one office, I kept the big one on my office desk, and brought it home for the weekend and occasionally traveled with it. It really wasn't bad to carry, not much difference to me between it and the 15". I mainly kept it plugged in, so the power brick wasn't a huge concern to me either.

Because I move between offices so much, I decided to get the smaller one, just because it is easier and faster to load up and go, set up and use.

Bottom line, depends on how you will use it to determine which one will be best for you. Good luck with your choice and let us know which way you went. Both look to be great machines.

 

my 2c. 15.6 with 95% gamut screen. it is so difficult to find laptop with decent TN screen. standing next to good 24"monitor difference must be very obvious

 

Thanks for all the great advice guys!

You mentioned you went with the 15", what did you do to your 17" then? Did you sell it, or..?

---

To all: Thanks for all the advice, please do keep them coming, they are very helpful.

I understand it's very much a personal choice, however just reading your own personal experiences really does help in my decision!

My last 2 laptops have mostly been on my desk, but they were 14". I don't know if this played a part in being able to sell them. I'm just worried that in the event that I feel like upgrading in a year or so, it would be easier to sell the 15" compared to the 17" simply because of the potential market size of each respective notebook. Or would I be wrong?

 

He hasn't sold it, he is using both notebooks. Seems you're very interested in the value of a notebook after you've owned it for some years. It will only be a fraction of what you paid for it, PC's never keep their value I'm afraid.

 

Unless you sell it very quickly you can pretty much write most of it off.

 

I'm not worried so much about the value.

Well I guess not as much as being able to get rid of it fast.

I know I'll be losing money on it, but I was still able to recoop about 50% of the value of my 14" noteoboks (which is better than 0%).
I was also able to find a buyer relatively fast.

That's what I'm trying to get at with the 15" vs 17" resale markets.

 

Any one who can not afford a new notebook will look for a relatively cheap second hand one. 14" notebooks are about the cheapest on the market, and a second hand 14" is even cheaper. There is always demand for such notebooks. However a second hand Clevo for 50% of it's original value is still quite expensive, and for that price you can get very nice new notebooks. I don't think the size of the screen will influence the price very much.

 

That's definitely true.

So that's why I was wondering, would there even be a significant 2nd hard market out there for 17" laptops?

Would someone who is looking for a 17" laptop even consider a 2nd hard unit? Or even, would someone looking for a 2nd hand laptop even consider a 17" laptop since it's not as portable?

What do you guys think on that?

 

A 17" notebook is often called a desktop replacement, and that can be considered as a separate category of PC's. A 15" notebook is 'just' a notebook, and a 15" Clevo is a very heavy notebook. So maybe a 17" notebook has more potential on the second hand market?

 

I agree with grunnsat. There are many 15" lappys to pick from used, but those looking for 17" are doing so for specific reasons. It is kind of a separate market. Usually they come with multiple drive bays, better cooling (due to space available for cooling) and specific need. As Grun stated earlier, I did keep mine, and use it at home, I have not used a desktop computer in quite a few years. The 17" is now my home DTR. But as many have stated, laptops, just like cars, lose value the moment you buy them. After a year, they a probably worth half or so of original value, give or take. After 2 years, the tech is old and outdated, at least compared to whatever is just released, so value is even lower. Best rule is to pick something that works for you, and then either sell for whatever the market bears, use it in whatever fashion works for you, or pass it down to family, friends or even donate to a school.

Laptops are always decreasing in value, from the moment you pay for it. So just get what will fill your needs best and never look back. Good luck on your choice.

 

Some information that I have not seen (and even though I read the whole thread, I cannot say old-timers didn't made me forget) is what usage you have. If your primarily a gamer, then upgrading or replacing may be very much of the utmost importance to you in a year. I use my laptops primarily for work, so my need to upgrade/replace is not for the same reasons, nor has the same importance. I do a lot of photo and vid editing, but I do not require yearly upgrades in software, so what works well on my system when I buy it works well several years later also. I do game a bit, but if your a hard core gamer, then having the latest GPU will make you need to replace much faster.

Let us know what your requirements are, and I think we could offer a bit more help.

 

some say go big is ok but dont go dual GPU route, get the latest and the fastest single GPU card available today, since dual GPU give more heat problem (specially for hot climate country) .... personally I like big screen laptop 17 or 18"

 

definitely go for the 15 inch laptop, not the desktop replacement. Laptops are for mobility, having a desktop replacement defeats the purpose of having a laptop. If power is your priority, build a desktop, it will be cheaper and more powerful, and actually upgradeable(having to pay $1000 for a new GPU is not upgradeable IMO)

 

Sure, if mobility is your prime concern. However Clevo's are high-performance notebooks, heavy with a very big power supply. A 15" Clevo is still a big heavy monster, not really build for maximum mobility. If mobility is what your are after, then there are many other 15" notebooks. So the choice is between a thick heavy 15" Clevo, or a slightly bigger 17" Clevo.

 

well at the end i think it jsut depends on how much you'll travell with it and if you have to move it a lot or not!

if yes, go for the p150em wich will be lit bit lighter and smaller. If not go for the p370 which will give you a larger screen and better cooling (assuming you have same specs in both of them.)

If you think of already selling it, honestly, i don't think why to bother buying it...

Personally, i am (was), in the same situation. I was thinking to go for the p150, but as I won't be travelling around with it (only for a couple of flights during the year to my home country) and i want a bigger screen with a nice cooling system, so i decided to go for the p370 as i can get it for the same price.

I'm not saying that the p150 has a bad cooling system! Actually it is good, but the p370 is a bit better and, as i'll put a single graphic card, there will be a bit more space inside it.

I just excluded p170 becuase i like the p370 design more and because of the enduro issues.

 

I too am going through the same thought process as you were!

Well, yeah I figure I won't be moving it around most of the time. It would be sitting on my desk, but there may be a few rare occasions where I need to move it.

What I meant by selling, is that maybe in a year and a half or so, if I would like upgrade up to a newer model, I would like to be able to sell it quickly.

I understand that I will be losing money on that, and that's normal. But it's more of the question of whether I would be even able to find a buyer for a 17" notebook/ DTR.

I just have this impression that a 15" notebook would sell more quicker as opposed to the 17".

Furthermore, I think the 150em and 151em are same size/weight too, I did consider the 151em initially.

 

It's what I said mate!
you say you'll have to move it "a few rare occasions", if it is that rare i would go for the p370, I personally wanted a desktop, but a one that i could move so i went for this desktop replacement which offers mobility! and after, ok this is not like carrying a small book in your hand, but it's not like carrying a chair in your back! it's still a laptop, just a bit bigger than usual and also heavier

Regarding the selling i really can't help you man! I never sold a laptop, however, I also agree with you (although i may be wrong!), i also think that 15'' are sold faster, maybe because normal users go for the standard.

Good luck in your decision!

 

Questions:

• How many of the owners of a 15" Clevo regularly move their notebook?
• Suppose you're looking for a used 15" notebook, why should you buy a heavy, bulky and still rather expensive 15" Clevo instead of a cheaper and lighter middle of the road 15" notebook?
• Suppose you want to buy a used high performance notebook for mostly stationary use, would not a 17" be more desirable?