Clevo + Coffee Lake: Status?

Lol. It's such an ambiguous term. I meant to say QHD so 2560 x 1440.

 

heh, from the standpoint of no upgrade at all, it seems dumb to complain about BGA doesnt it?

but thats not what matters the most and sadly people are mistaken about our outrage.

its the very idea that if a small component on mobo burns out, or connector failing, you will have to pay for new cpu and new GPU, instead of paying new mobo. no matter how much people want to sugar coat it, it does NOT and EVER be justified that instead of paying $400 or 500 for a new mobo we have to pay $1.5k or $2k, its simply beyond retarded.

further more for us being enthuiast, MXM format if stayed the same, you get to upgrade, if you get a golden CPU, you get to keep it if its LGA and use it in another similar laptop, or desktop in general. in BGA, none of that option is available, nil, nada, none.

assuming its BGA and we get a super golden CPU chip can do 5.4ghz on 4 cores, and assuming we still only pay $500 for mobo instead of $1.5k or 2k for it, u'll still lose the golden CPU because mobo breaks. even more reason to not go BGA simply it is known fact that intel gives garbage silicon to mobile side versus desktop side, while charging more for mobile.

hopefully i can help people open their blind sight to this thing so called filth bga trash garbage u name it. need to spread the hate knowledge. @Mr. Fox @Papusan @TBoneSan


TLDR; in short, BGA disadvantage
- no upgrade option if ever needed
- replacing compenent = paying for new CPU/GPU/mobo combined
- can't keep golden hardware due to other hardware failure
- paying more for crappier hardware
- if i buy it, i helped intel brain wash future taffers making them think it is okay to accept and pay for trash.

 

1. To most people, however you put it, the CPU upgrade option isn't worth it. Unless one needs desktop levels of performance, BGA is fine. Admittedly Intel had a upgrade path before with their PGA socket, and yet I have never seriously considered upgrading my CPU. Like I mentioned earlier, a GPU upgrade path gives a more viable option to users than CPU upgrades, where performance improvements have stagnated over the past decade.

2. Notebook motherboards are actually fairly cheap, given that all the components are soldered on them. A maximum of $500-$700, when HIDEvolution's 7700K CPU upgrade with all the options ticked is already $600 more than the barebones option. For that price alone, I can buy a P650HS motherboard with a GTX 1070 and 7700HQ with ~75% of the performance of the desktop 7700K. CPU + GPU for the price of a desktop CPU? Gimme now.

3. We are not paying more for lousier hardware, we are paying more to fit all that hardware into such a small space. I suggest you try building an SFF PC with a mini-ITX motherboard. See how much it costs, see how the price rivals that of a notebook.

4. If I buy it, I am choosing the hardware that fits my needs. I don't care about manufacturer brainwashing or whatever. I will behave like the typical economics consumer—spend on what maximises value within my budget. Intel, AMD, nVidia, these are all just names to me. Of course, I will consider the aftermarket service, software support and possibly the ethics of the company I am buying from, but value for money is paramount.

All that said and done, find me a 13-15" machine within the weight of a P650HS that has the modularity and performance of the 16L13 or P750DM. No? Not possible? Sorry, then, your high-end DTRs are not for me.

 

1. incorrect, cpu upgrade is worth it, depending on how you see it as each individual sees the value of hardware differently. since cpu improve the slowest, most gpu can play many games on high settings with high enough fps to not really matter.

2. a high quality desktop mobo is $400 with a load more features, theres simply no comparison. cpu is worth 350-400 for an i7 maybe more, a GPU could be anything between 800-1200$, if both are soldered to mobo, and you replace mobo solely because mobo breaks then you are paying for CPU, GPU and a mobo, regardless how CHEAP laptop mobo portion is.

3. you deeply believe you are not purchasing for crappy hardware? back in the earlier days i have had excellent mobile chips non-soldered and its worsen since they gone bga starting from haswell-refresh. if you think lesser quality BGA while more expensive is not junk, you are free to keep believing in that.

4. so do i, i choose no BGA no garbage no filth no soldered trash book.

its alright you dont have to be sorry if i cant find one suits your need, however i wont stop you to find one that will suit your need. all i know is, all BGA filth is not for me.

 

I fix it for yoo

What price do yoo think a new or used MB will cost for this Acerbook when something fry? And how easy will it be to obtain as the model is limited Edition aka produced in 300 units?

 

Sorry, I just jumped in lol.
QHD IPS is what I want too. 2.5K (what a lot of people call 3K) still has more life before 100FPS+ 4K can be played IMHO

 

I feel sorry for the PC users that have accepted BGA (Butt Gas Apparatus). Look what the lizard people have done to them. Some laptop users have now grown to accept it...
At least take mini PGA over BGA. Don't be shy... (#ItsYourMoney)

 

Its the price that turns most users away from LGA. If both BGA and LGA competitively priced and marketed correctly then most of them would buy LGA over BGA any day. Not many people believe LGA laptops exist unless it has Apple logo. Everybody looks at logo and not the actual hardware contained in the PC which is very sad.
Most people think (even myself, until I was corrected by @Papusan, @Mr. Fox and others in NBR ) HQ, HK and K CPUs are similar. For example, I bought an 7700HQ and GTX 1070 laptop which has desktop level performance and portable, Hell I can max out every game and future proofed PC.
Fast forward to few months, BGA feels slow and all gains is close to zero. The users thought he/she got a bad unit, sold it to get a real dekstop, wow there is a difference of Day and Night. The user thinks he got a bad unit and try their luck once more and same story repeats. This is the sad part, I mean very sad.

 

All depends where you are in the world. Read this thread and all of my following quotes. BGA aint always much cheaper bruh . Sometimes it can be opposite or equal. BGA can be useful if you dont need the performance and never pay more than $200-500.

 

I read your threads, it is overpriced here too. Check these links for 15 r3 and 17 r4 in India. @iunlock 7820HK has finally made available in India but it comes with 1080 MQ on 15 r3 and 1080 on R4 .
15 r3 http://www.dell.com/in/p/alienware-15-laptop/pd
17 r4 http://www.dell.com/in/p/alienware-17-laptop/pd
EDIT: Its cheaper to get it from Hidevolution with 3 years of global warranty and accidental warranty.

 

LMAO 1080MQ? am i really seeing that now LOLOL max-Q god damn it milk to the max hahahah

some BGA chips, especially i7 cost a forture. i remember the 7920HQ cost like $500 or $600 its honestly a joke vs desktop counter part for $350 - $370. capable of overclocking 600-700mhz easily with decent voltage and temperature.

 

Intel Core i3-8350K CPU Performance Leaks Out – Multi-Threading Performance Almost on Par With A Core i7-7700K, Single-Thread Results Shows IPC Lead
http://wccftech.com/intel-coffee-lake-core-i3-8350k-cpu-benchmarks-leak/

 

Welcome to yesterday

 

I didn't know it

 

Question for those who have LGA laptops, I've asked this a few times but it has gone unanswered every time, let's say I have a P870DM3 and want to upgrade to the next iteration of CPUs, be it Intel or AMD, and it requires a new socket. What happens? Do manufacturers release mobos for the new sockets or are you ****ed and forced to spend 3k on the next iteration of said laptop? On a desktop you only would have to upgrade the MB and CPU, so around 400-600€. If it's the latter, what's even the point of paying the premium to get a bulkier, heavier and noisier LGA laptop if you're still getting ****ed like BGA laptops, you're only "futureproofing" for the next one or two years.

Same deal with GPU's, I can slap a 1060 on a 2500k and I can be 100% sure that it'll work, no need to fiddle with anything just unplug the old one, plug the new one, and go on your merry way with your new GPU. Can I do the same on a MXM laptop? can I grab a 2011 laptop and just plug in a 1060 and have it work? Again, if the answer is no, you're still getting ****ed like BGA laptops on that front.

Keep in mind that I'm not bashing LGA laptops, just trying to get informed

 

I KNOW

Both desktops with (mainstream cpu) and LGA socket laptops use same socket!! Read previous posts. Or here!!

 

An i7 desktop (LGA) has better performances than a mobile (BGA) cpu so it is more future proof than a mobile cpu IMO
http://cpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/Intel-Core-i7-7700K-vs-Intel-Core-i7-7700HQ/3647vsm211019
I heard that coffee lake will use a lga1151 v2 socket so a cpu upgrade could be not possible for a p870dm3 with a z170 motherboard. I don't know if z270 could be compatible, there were some benchs over that systems with new coffee lake, and I don't know if a z270 motherboard cold replace a z170 in a p870dm3.

MXM gpus are a good idea for 2 reasons:
-gpu (can) fail and when that appens a soldered gpu needs a reflow/reball or may be a new motherboard. (not so easy and cheap)
-gpu upgrade can extend the life of a system

Yes there are old laptops with pascal gpus


here some expample of Successful MXM GPU Upgraded Laptops http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/successful-mxm-gpu-upgraded-laptops.805136/

 

I know that, that's why I'm asking, you can't plug in a Coffee Lake CPU on current chipsets.

if they have the same modularity as desktops why are there lots of threads saying you need so and so bios mods or whatever and "adventure" posts about doing a simple GPU upgrade on an old laptop, when that takes literally 2 minutes on a desktop.

Okay, I might not be explaining myself well (that or I'm missing the point here), what I want to know is why threads like that exist, doesn't the laptop being MXM inherently mean that it IS upgradeable with ANY MXM GPU? Why does a list like that exist? You don't see a "List of successfully GPU upgraded desktops" that would be absolutely non-sensical.

 

Z170 or Z270 doesn't matter!!

Its the money. The reason for BGA, is pushing you back to the shop after a year. Every new Cpu rev must match the MB. Aka your machine need firmware microcode. OEMs trying to avoid give it out although the cpu can match the MB specifications. MB manufacturers (desktop) will normally always push out firmware if next Cpu match the MB.

 

So, if I'm understanding you, everyone that wishes to upgrade to Coffee lake must buy a new whole machine? Manufacturers do not release new motherboards for old laptops to go with the new sockets (ie: on desktopts, you can just grab a new ATX motherboard for CL and you're good to go), not only that but they also sometimes refuse to release firmware updates for new CPUs even if the socket matches?... Ouch, what the hell is wrong with laptop manufacturers ($$$) :/

Talking about LGA here.

 

here some reasons for that thread:
-sometimes a mxm gpu upgrade is not plug and play and you need to do some modification of the vbios
-some times a mxm gpu upgrade needs a new heatsink or a modded one
-some laptops can use only mxm 3.0b cards and some new card has a different standard and it doesn't fit without modding the case
-concentrating infos help people for upgrading

you can't have your desktop with you in different places and laptops are more expensive but they can do that

 

That's what I wanted to know, it makes sense, thanks! +rep.

Wish it was a bit more standarized.

Exactly, that's what makes laptops so great, specially now that GPUs are the same ones as desktop's.

 

Eurocom mxm 3.0b gtx1070 / gtx1080/ rx580 cards are coming so many old laptops could be upgradable

 

Coffee lake not working on Z170 and Z270 despite being LGA 1151 compatible (physically fitting in the socket) is 100% on Intel and no one else. Its not a laptop manufacturer BIOS update issue like it is with Kaby lake on the Z170 P870DM.

This issue doesn't apply to laptop CPUs because they are matched with the chipset at design phase and all soldered together.

I don't know about 2011 model laptops... but I squeezed two 1070s in a 2012 model

 

Extreme greed. At least 50% of the problem is stupid customers feeding the pig.

 

BGA FILTHBOOK's with soldered so called *high end* [email protected] is called a desktop replacement. Now with the upgraded 7700Hq. No in Hell, bruh!! Some reviewers saying right out as long the laptop chassis passing 15,6 inches in size or contain a "high end" 4c/8t soldered i7 tragedy, will this abortion be called DTR(desktop replacement). Yoo see? Stupidity live!! How can you do the same with wimpy 3.1/3.4GHz as with +5.0GHz? All cores. Yeah, you can smell the ignorance. Or stupidity. Put what's fit.

This below is from an old lady a Clevo P870 socket beast from late 2015. Be my guest... Hit up same Cinbench R11.5 scores from all produced JokeBook's from 2015/16 in Notebookcheck.net database and compare the results. Soldered Filthy from Intel can never ever be a substitute for the real deal.

 

Nobody who's sane will say that BGA are DTR material, they're not powerful enough to fit that definition.

A DTR is, as the name implies, a machine that has the same parts as a desktop's but in a laptop form factor, calling a BGA laptop a DTR is just being delusional IMO.

BGA do have their place though, just not on the high end of the spectrum.

 

The P650HS, for example, is plenty high-end, and is portable, too. And it's BGA everything.

 

Read you up on several well known websites who do reviews of hardware... They use the phrase Desktop replacement. Do a Google search. You find same ****y everywhere on internet!! Yeah, stupidity still live. Now we have also 1080 Max-Q a real replacement for 1080 desktop graphics card

Yeah I know, BGA has its place... In notebooks up to $200, max 500 usd.

 

Maybe the thought is if they repeat the mantra and keep calling it a DTR that it will eventually come true. Hopefully not, as that would require desktops to be severely downgraded to BGA filth. Only then would it be accurate. Then everything, including desktops, would be utterly despicable and worthless garbage. What they are doing is brainwashing the oatmeal-brained Kool-Aid drinkers into believing fairy tales. It certainly reinforces the impression that people that write those reviews are about a dumb as a fence post. This is particularly dangerous in light of the fact that consumers have never been as ignorant and misinformed as they are today. It's truly pathetic. The internet has the power to enlighten the ignorant, but they prefer being spoon fed lies and propaganda, so they have only become dumber based on how they use the internet.

 

Monkey see, monkey do... Pass the Kool-Aid, please...

 

real? whens that coming

isnt that laptop just average? honestly speaking i can cramp two 1080 sli and a core i9 18 cores in a slim form factor and solder them all onto mobo and call it high end, but you cant fully use it's potential because it'll just overheat. looking at that laptop, thin, bga soldered junk. overclock a tiny bit and for sure to overheat, that aint high end, its actually way below enthuiast standard.

the only high end bga are the ones that are FAT, THICK with huge heatsinks. like MSI GT83VR and honestly not even acer 21x can compete against MSI's cooling in that laptop. MSI's only real disappointment is using a 7820hk instead of a 7700k

 

Technically if it replaces your desktop for all you need, it's a desktop replacement

 

http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/the-hopeful-of-keeping-mxm-3-0b-alive-thread.795048/page-166

 

Yeah, even a 7-10 inches tablet should be called a desktop replacement today Tablet is a wrong word. For some even a smartphone can make the tasks

 

It is not just average. Its specs are firmly in the 'enthusiast' range (FYI, 'mainstream' stops at GTX 1050 Ti and Core i5 or I7-7700HQ). This is a notebook with a GPU that can chew through games at 1440p 60 FPS, it is faster than a GTX 980 Ti, for goodness' sake. Both the GTX 1070 and the 7820HK in the P650HS can be comfortably overclocked for a ~15% performance boost. The GTX 1070 can easily hit 2 GHz, and the 7820HK can probably be clocked to 4.3 GHz from a base boost of 3.9 GHz.

FYI, 'mainstream' is what 75% of the population owns. And that is the GTX 750 Ti, GTX 970, and GTX 1050 Ti. Sound low-end? Not everyone has several thousand bucks to blow on a system they'll just play games on.

The P650HS runs extremely cool for the performance it contains. You don't own this laptop, nor have you ever played with it, and you're giving judgement based on how it looks?


I can say that the P750 series is a throttling mess (CPU runs at 95°C? Ouch) despite it being a "thick, FAT" DTR that you mentioned.

 

Any machine with a 1070 class GPU would be high end. When you go to 2x 1080s that's a halo product.

 

Lets take Cinebench R15 f.eks who is similar a dayly task for many computer users. I'm sure yoo can shave of a few degrees if you undervolt, delidde and use use Conductonaut. Even between lid and HS. And I havent talked about lapping and as well change the lid to Bitspower My bet? Maybe you can run a bit over 50c in cinebench R15 with the suggested steps. Can a Jokebook do that?

 

Sure, it can.

 

I expect with more than stock 3.5/3.6GHz all 4 cores

 

Here you go—i7-6820HK running at 4 GHz all cores, 53 W power draw, around 1-5% slower than 6700K

 

I thought we talked about 50c in Cinebench with unlocked oc'd BGA in P650HS
FYI. This is stock clocked [email protected] (P650HS) with 100mv undervolt.


Btw. This below is with my stock 6700K in Cinebench 11.5 and R15. Please compare the numbers with equal clocked 4GHz BGA filth as in your link. FYI Both run @4.0GHz






Edit. You can as well compare the stock 6820Hk Cinebench scores with an soon 5 years old medium powered i7-4810mq.

http://hwbot.org/submission/3607526_papusan_cinebench___r11.5_core_i7_4810mq_8_points

http://hwbot.org/submission/3607534_papusan_cinebench___r15_core_i7_4810mq_735_cb

It's sad, I know!!

 

Well, let us have a closer look...

Best example of 6820HK BGA toy turd chip:
http://hwbot.org/hardware/processor/core_i7_6820hk/

Best example of 6700K real processor:
http://hwbot.org/hardware/processor/core_i7_6700k/

Best example of 7820HK BGA toy turd chip:
http://hwbot.org/hardware/processor/core_i7_7820hk/

Best example of 7700K real processor:
http://hwbot.org/hardware/processor/core_i7_7700k/

...consistently inferior, not less expensive, runs hotter with lower power draw, one chance in the silicon lottery, disposable with motherboard.

Yeah, the crippled BGA K filth is the way to go. NOT

 

Yeah, Intel and the OEMs know how to fool yoo More for less!!

 

How else can they build an army of money-dumping notebook eunuchs? Deception is simply one of the many services they provide.

 

Geez... almost $600 for a flaky 7920HQ. Scumbags.

 

Your idle temps are 27 °C. My ambient temps are 32 °C. I believe the ambient temps with HTWingNut's review were significantly higher as well. You have a history of cherry-picking benchmarks to suit your agenda, @Papusan...

50 °C load temps aren't even achieved on most desktop benchmarks around the Web. You are blessed with a icy freezing Nordic climate, whereas if I get some rain and a breeze of 25 °C cool air it feels good. We should be talking about ∆T, difference in temperature, not absolutes.

Your HWBot links give no information about power draw and temperatures. These HK CPUs draw exactly the same power as their desktop counterparts, and are binned to draw less at lower clock rates. Notebook CPU philosophy is 'race-to- idle', not 'run at 100% all day every day'. They also run hotter because they are in a tighter thermal environment. Throw on a CM Hyper 212 EVO, and I'll bet you that the 6820HK and 7820HK will outdo the 6700K in your P870DM.

And this is—no other way of putting it—downright insulting. You are judging an entire population of several hundred million people based on their purchases and purchasing power? See, I agree that disposable electronics are a terrible thing, it reduces repairability and modularity and upgradability. It screws with our environment, and fosters a throw-away that will do us all no good.

But insulting your target audience isn't exactly the best way to go about convincing them that BGA sucks, or whatever. Like I said, find me a notebook today that has both an MXM slot and has a replaceable CPU within $800-1000. No, not possible? You are part of the reason why. In your own words, you claim that $500 notebooks need not have such capability, since they're so cheap anyway. I think that all electronics should be repairable, no matter big, small, thin, fat, heavy or light.

And that is Intel's history of ripping off consumers. We only have two players in the x86 market: Intel and AMD. Ryzen has proven to be extremely popular. Its HEDT and server offshoots, Threadripper and Epyc offer simultaneously better performance, better value and better efficiency than the Intel counterparts.

I wish AMD rolled out its full-fledged R7 1700 to notebooks. 900 CB at 3 GHz and 30 W power draw...

And I also yearn for the day when ARMv8 is competitive with x86_64. Apple has already made massive strides with its Ax SoC, with single-threaded benches demolishing Qualcomm, and exceeding Haswell single-thread scores.

 

You cannot accurately compare the performance of a mobile CPU and a desktop CPU without first eliminating all benchmarks that were created on unequal platforms (unless you're going to rig laptops with Liquid Helium). To do otherwise would be an example of false equivalence.

 

I still dont know why notebook manufacturers or AMD for that matter pushed an 1700 alternative in hi end prosumer notebooks.

Raven ridge is not going to be a silver bullet. Intel probably sunk that boat with their quad ulvs.

 

i7-6700k or i7-7700k need to be delidded. no throttling after that