Clevo + Ryzen: possible?

RYZEN + VEGA in Clevo laptops possible?

 

Everything is possible that's physically possible. Everything has to come together however from engineering to price and demand. If the conditions are right then Clevo certainly has the design experience.

 

I think the most important thing now is... Money.

Money talks and has the power in the right circumstances

 

And AMD does not have spare money to pay staff for developing and supporting mobile products.

 

Or..... An ODM like Clevo just skips that part (CPU wise anyways) and just uses the desktop CPU. But, who knows. Perhaps with their experience with desktop GPUs in laptop form factor could assist a Vega desktop conversion, too.

However, in reality I think @Meaker@Sager is closest to the mark. If they feel there is a market with these AMD components due out soon, something will hit the market to fill that need.

 

don't care how you do it, JUST DO IT!

there's been a considerable lack of AMD powered gaming laptops so they really need to fill the void.

 

hmm

 

.

 

Thr RX 580M looks slower than the 1080 , probably more like the 1070 at a more affordable price point. Still a good card.

 

Ellesmere is Polaris 10. They're suggesting 480M rebadge

 

Any assumptions on the price of rx490?

 

It would have been, if the 480 was anywhere to be seen.

 

To clarify my post (first above) and as @Meaker@Sager pointed out, what I was saying is exactly that - MSI are working on it, not Eurocom. It's just marketing hype.

When we're talking about "mobile form factor" and that it won't come to a mobile product, I'm refering to both integrated and socket laptop platforms i.e. mobile opposed to desktop.

 

https://forum.z.cash/t/mxm-cards-the-future-of-gpu-mining/12596/14

Pandaminer B1 uses 8 x "RX480" MXM

Same page claims someone got em for below USD$200 in bulk

I emailed them weeks ago, no response :/

 

No info about which version that is - 95W or 150W. If one buys a whole rig it comes at $275 a pop. Not a bad price. Even less if we can get the GPUs only. Too bad they are not responding.

 

All rumor and speculation until something official is announced, but there's this

(credit @Deks for the link) - https://www.kitguru.net/components/cpu/matthew-wilson/amd-said-to-launch-ryzenzen-apus-in-late-2017/

However, this contradicts what @bennyg's post was getting at. And while this suggests there will be something from AMD that is some mobile type offering, you ( @XMG), may also be right that neither Clevo nor the other ODM's will be offering it in any model, but rather someone like Dell. Time will telling , I guess.

 

Investing in a unique high end beast and something more mainstream are two very different proposals.

 

Agreed. However it was not clearly stated in the OP.

To me, my needs require a full desktop CPU in a laptop chassis, not a castrated, lower TDP mobile CPU or BGA socket solution. My posts were a counterpoint that AMD will be doing something by mid year. Now, what system specs (beast mode vs. 'wimpy-wimpy-wimpy') and what, if any ODMs get in on the act, remains to be seen. But one can hope.

 

It will depend on options, they would not do an unlocked version of the APU for MSI GX60 which would have made it at least somewhat competitive.

 

Not really, that's exactly my point though it wasn't clear enough - I can't see much progress happening before their big ticket CPU and GPU launches are all done which puts it towards the end of the year.

Though I am always happy to be proven wrong by history when I talk stuff down

 

Expect everything who smells notebooks is BGA!! Same ****y will come from AMD as Intel. Sorry but so it is 6 core BGA is on paper from Intel. If AMD push out similar, expect low powered 45w versions there as well. Sad days will come.

 

I hope and pray this does NOT turn out to be the case, Brother @Papusan

 

Yeah, we haven't other options than see what will happen. Oh, yeah... I forgot home build desktops. But 6 or 8 core BGA is and will be NO thanks. Rather start seeing on tv again. Or see paint dry!!

 

What if they out perform the 4 Core LGA's at lower clocks ?

 

STILL NO!! Desktop next NEVER EVER touch that filth!!

 

Sadly all rumors point in that direction - AMD's mobile parts would be BGA as well. Too bad, but that's how the industry is going and AMD is going along. You have to push serious cash to change something, obviously AMD doesn't have it... for now.

 

i want a desktop Ryzen in a laptop...end of story!

 

If the price of mobo, cpu, gpu was $250 with that performance, then that would be the correct positioning for something like this.

 

If that is the case, then screw AMD and their worthless mobile BGA trash. It's not OK for Intel or NVIDIA to sell filth, and it won't be OK for AMD to follow suit. I agree with Brother @Papusan. I do not care what the trend is, or even if it performs the same. It makes no difference. BGA CPU and/or GPU in expensive notebooks is, and will always be, unacceptable worthless filth. I will not be numbered among the sheeple that accept the mark of the beast. If Clevo stops making laptops with socket-mounted desktop CPUs, I will immediately stop purchasing so-called "high performance" laptops and become one of the laptop hating trolls on steroids like those haters at Overclock.net LOL. I absolutely refuse to tolerate this garbage. I will be done forever with laptops that cost more than $500, because that is the maximum retail value of any disposable BGA turdbook. Well, I might buy a used one if it is cheap enough to rob parts from it. If I can save a few buck on parts by removing the drives and memory to install them in a real computer, then toss the rest of the BGA feces into a dumpster, I might consider that. But, drives and RAM will be soldered next for notebooks... pay attention. If you give these evil bastard ODMs an inch, they're going to take a mile... just watch. Those that know better won't be drinking the Kool-Aid. Mark my words, folks. You will have whatever amount of feces you are willing to accept from them. There is no limit to how low they will go with the production of crippled trashbooks. The only solution is a massive assault on their corporate wallet and a bankrupting rejection of their stupid nonsense.

 

Nothing impossible from the manufacturing point of view, it depends on the technology owners interests, and believe me or not... politics and politicians are involved in this kind of decisions, those technologies are going to the whole world, and it will be in every single place on the globe. Sometime I just feel that they are all sitting together HW/SW all of them in the same coulisse, and they decided what they will do to achieve their goals, no matter what we wants or desires, and they have their own calculations and hidden agendas.

EDIT: And the National Security and World safety must be considered, portable super computer with multi CPU/GPU "Which can be done BTW" with high performance computing capabilities and can be moved in a bag, this is something really risky.
So from the World leaders point of view, maybe there is some other factors can limits what we need to have on our hands and make us more happy .

Maybe I'm wrong, but it's just a thought.

 

It's purely down to the component manufacturer supporting the ODM. As I mentioned before, Clevo would love to offer Ryzen systems but they aren't the only part of the puzzle ;-)

 

Then I say let the component manufacturers drop dead. We must not settle for what they want for us. Boycott their castrated BGA notebook filth if they do not cooperate. If AMD won't work with Clevo to deliver socketed desktop CPUs in Clevo laptops, then screw AMD for being a stupid lot. They don't deserve any of our money if they pull a retarded stunt like that.

 

As I keep saying, it's not what they want or don't want to do; nor what they will or will not do. It is what they CAN and CAN'T do. You can blame a company for not being able to do something if you want, but that's completely different to blaming a company which is in a position to do something but refuses to or decides against doing it.

 

In any event, this shouldn't stop Clevo from designing a AMD desktop CPU monster for us to all to enjoy.

 

Let me be clear because it seems you think my caution is directed toward Clevo, and that is not the case. I would not blame Clevo if AMD refuses to support their socketed desktop CPUs in laptops. I would blame AMD for being stupid. But, I would not buy a Clevo with a BGA AMD CPU either. Both would ultimately suffer the consequences, but I would blame AMD for being wusses and making stupid business decisions. Likewise, I would not buy a Clevo with a BGA Intel CPU if Intel decides to ruin things for us and refuses to provide any further support for the products we enjoy now. Likewise, both would suffer the same consequence because of Intel's stupidity. It would be unfortunate for Clevo, but there is a limit to the nonsense I will put up with. The last sentence in your reply is exactly what I would blame AMD for, not Clevo. I don't buy the notion that AMD is incapable of providing support for it.

 

I understood completely that you were talking about AMD, my reply was also talking about AMD rather than Clevo ;-) But at the moment AMD can't provide support, that's the problem.

 

Why? Lack of financial resources? If that is the case, how could they provide BGA support for notebooks? Messed up priorities? Not arguing bro just needing to understand why you say they cannot as if it is factual. You may be right, but what is the basis for saying AMD can't support it?

And, assuming that is correct and they cannot, why should we even care about AMD on mobile then? They offer us nothing of value if all they bring is more BGA filth to the table.

 

I'll be more flexible

I want a desktop CPU in a laptop such that I don't feel cheated anymore... end of story!

...ok wait, that doesn't look flexible!

 

AMD have to have laser focus on the markets that can bring them in money to survive.

Anything else and they are dead for good.

Once they have the cake sorted, then maybe think about the cream

 

Im going through great lengths to avoid anything from Intel. My fiance wants a new laptop and so do I. I just refuse to buy into MORE BGA systems after having learned our lessons with the GE40-2OC and Y510P.

I am not too fond of buying nvidia systems either anymore. Removing overclocking, calling it a bug, that they fixed no less and that we should be thankful for it. Is a number a expletives Im sure I am not permitted in these forums.

They lost a sale for a new system on that from me. Ill be much quicker to go through the hassle of getting a used system and upgrading that to its limit before purchasing something new from Intel/Nvidia.

I realize that not many share my position and I fully respect their purchasing decisions as sometimes we need these systems for work and play is just something we can do on the same machine. The direction they are going just put me off, and I had been an Intel/Nvidia faithful customer since X58 days.

I'll upgrade my systems until Ryzen + Vega in laptops are available. I am patient, I can wait.

 

In our case the Cream is more of a niche.

 

Most cream is in this case, niche where you can usually charge more for the same product. In this case it's worth less to AMD though due to it being the normal part.

A truly unlocked BGA part could still do pretty well though.

 

I have tried to explain the reasons for this without being able to go into exact details - it's not easy to give direct sources when you're working in the industry. But I can draw information directly from ODMs, roadmaps, discussions with colleagues and contacts in other companies etc etc. I also have never said that it won't happen, only that I would be very susprised if it happened this year with more than possibly one or two tier 1 ODMs. This might turn out to be correct or incorrect, I haven't stated an absolute position.

Maybe they will only bring BGA to the table, maybe they won't - I get it that BGA holds no value to you but 1/ we can't say what their BGA implimentation could be like compared to Intel and 2/ we should all care about BGA AMD wether you want to buy it or not - whether it adds competition in the market, if it's successful then it could help socket AMD mobile solutions, completely depends what you value.

 

Maybe a BGA AMD now is the "bitter pill" for a socketed future?

 

NO!! We still have desktop hardware and can build a decent power house. For portability a smartphone or +-$150 usd Turd.

 

What I meant is there is a possibility that AMD needs to use BGA to grab market share for now, and then leverage on that for socketed laptops.

 

So even if you could get a machine with a top 10% binning, 8 phase power delivery and high end cooling you would still reject a BGA chip?

 

Will never ever happen. Thin and flawed + everything soldered on Mb. No thanks. I will rather go for a home build desktop. A JOKEBOOK will never manage to compare with desktops. Or rather start have fun with something else. I'm in the age now and can be a grandfather. Everything JokeBooks, will be my goodbye with laptops.

 

Yes.

My i7 2670qm has been through 5 systems due to swapping hardware or just mainboard failure. I am not even a fan of LGA laptops but I much prefer that method compared to soldered solutions. I'd like to think that I can go balls to the wall and drop 3-4 grand on a system but the reality is that I can only drop maybe a grand, when I am doing well off at that.

I buy the platform I need, and then build into that over time.

My m4600 I can still be upgraded to the i7 2860qm and 1600Mhz memory. My y510p can still be upgraded to the 4910mq or 4930mx (ill advised) with the ultrabay eGPU (PCIE 3.0 @ 8x speeds) with 2133mhz memory, where the CPU becomes the limiting factor at that point.

Even unlocked, I couldnt help but still look at it as a compromise which is why I never bought into the P650SG when Mythologic had the pricing error they honored (Final price was like 1100 or so) even though I REALLY like what the laptop offers, its keyboard (a big qualifying attribute) and most of its port layout (hate ports on the right side).

My bias is this, I just cant seem to follow along when we had more options into a scenario where we have less options. I like having my options available to me, I suppose, after purchase.

 

God damn it, we're talking about Ryzen here. Must this witch-hunting, discriminating, caustic attitude spill every goddamn where in this forum?

We were talking about Ryzen's performance; how the hell does the BGA/PGA/LGA discussion come into play?

Literally everything else except your CPU is soldered onto a board today, from the PCH, your RAM/SSD storage chips to the GPU silicon. The fact that Intel BGA CPUs perform worse than their LGA counterparts is an artificial limitation. A soldered implementation can be as powerful as or even faster than an LGA CPU, given the same thermal dissipation equipment.

It's just a computer, for heaven's sake. Haven't you guys got lives besides this echo chamber?