Clevo Co. Market NEWS and Performance discussions

Clevo sees weak profits in 2016, but expects strong performance in 2017

Clevo has announced consolidated revenues of NT$5.73 billion (US$189.63 million) for the fourth quarter of 2016, up 17% sequentially and 3% on year and NT$19.72 billion for the whole of 2016, up 2% on year. The company's net profits were NT$239 million in the fourth quarter, up 583% sequentially and 26% on year; however, net profits in 2016 were down NT$436 million to reach only NT$596 million because of exchange losses. EPS was NT$0.92.

Clevo shipped 1.33 million notebooks in 2016, down from 2015's 1.43 million units, but revenues were up 4% on year to reach NT$14.1 billion in 2016 thanks to increased sales of high-end gaming products.

Currently, 40% of Clevo's notebook shipments are delivered to China and the country has already become a major market for the company's high-end notebook products. Clevo shipped over 500,000 notebooks to China in 2016 and shipments in 2017 are expected to grow a double-digit percentage on year thanks to the China government's aggressive moves on nurturing its e-sport industry.

Clevo has also prepared new high-end notebook products including high-performance ultra-thin enterprise models, high-performance multimedia models and gaming models. These notebooks are set to be released in April and May.

 

If Clevo comes out with a reasonably thin and light machine with Thunderbolt 3 that's compatible with the Razer Core, my money is as good as in HIDevolution's bank account.

 

Hey, I'm pretty sure that their board room meetings is to discuss how they can mess up the heatsink QC even more than now.

 

Then prepare some $$$$ for the next 2 months. They are planning to compete heavily in all users segments in 2017.

 

The question is: How they can get all this numbers of sales and revenues, with their current QC?

 

Overall QC is actually quite good. The heatsinks seem to be the only issue (and perhaps crappy stock paste). The other hardware is quite reliable, I see more users with older Clevo models than most other gaming machines. Obviously being an enthusiast forums it's a little skewed, but they perform well.

 

Yes, you are right, but they should listen to this thread to enhance their production, fixing issues and fulfill the customers expectations.

 

If Clevo is listening there is one thing above all else.

PLEASE CHANGE THE KEYBOARDS ON ALL DESKTOP CPU LINE CLEVOS. WHY DO YOUR HIGHEST END MACHINES HAVE THE WORST KEYBOARDS?

The P650RS keyboard is very solid, why have such an awful one on the P750, P755, and P870 lines.

If you don't believe me Clevo ask @Phoenix @D2 Ultima @Mr. Fox @HTWingNut @Mobius 1 and more...

 

I won't say it's even close to being awful, but it could be lots better for this class of machine

Sent from my OnePlus 1 using a coconut

 

It's easily the worst of the P series and I like most N series more. Phoenix literally switched to MSI he hated it so much lol. Trading a 1080 for a keyboard...

 

Yes, from my opinion, that was a big hit to Clevo, losing @Phoenix is not an easy at all. I'm sure he is waiting for something and he will come back again.

 

Yes, but that's rather relative. I've used some BAD keyboards. This... this is not bad. This is not great or outstanding, and I'm certain that if I get spoiled by a better keyboard I'll get more annoyed, though this is better than what I had on my P370SM3 (just a bit though!) and certainly better than most other laptop keyboards (considering all laptops, even the super cheap stuff). But I can't look at it, use it, and call it trash by any means. It's just fine for typing on and for gaming, and I have no "problems" with it by any means. It could (and should) be a lot better, but it isn't garbage. That's my stance.

 

Yes, but Brother @Phoenix is an extreme exception to the norm. And, I do not consider the keyboard to be a horrible feature at all. I actually like mine. It's definitely not awesome, but I think it is better than average. Even if it was bad enough to qualify as being terrible, I'd never personally consider downgrading the stuff on the inside just to have what some may perceive to be superior keyboard. Beauty is only skin deep. Ugly starts on the inside (BGA feces, tripod heat sinks, etc.) and that makes it practically impossible to fix.

 

Overall I'm enjoying typing on this 2014 Surface Pro 3 flimsy type cover more than the Clevo.

Food for thought...

 

Yup, I am 100% in sync with you on this Brother @D2 Ultima.

And, here's the deal...

FACT:
Anything you buy is going to have one or more things that could and should be better. None of the ODMs try hard enough to get everything right.

OPINION:
There are some things that should never be compromised... and, those are things that matter most on the inside.

 

I think some of the point is the laptop is usually 2700-9000+ dollars. The keyboard is not a hard thing to nail down on what is literally the most powerful laptops in the world. An AW 15's or Aorus X5's is way better.

But more importantly, the Clevo P650 series is better. Just take that one, they are showing they have a better one, why not use it.

 

I'm not saying you are wrong. I'm only saying I would not skip the superior machine to settle for something less on the basis of the keyboard. That's all I am saying, and that is my personal opinion. Some people are passionate enough about keyboards to make that the most important thing. That's not wrong, just different. The keyboard on the MSI 16L13 looks fantastic and it's well made. (Well made as long as you don't have a reason to remove it, in which case it turns into an extremely horrible keyboard on the basis of terrible serviceability.) I really like it overall, but I find it less pleasant to type on than I do the P870 keyboard. I care a whole lot more about what is under the hood on both of these machines, and I am greatly pleased with both of them overall. Any complaints I would have (other than really inexcusably lame firmware) about either machine can be more accurately categorized as gripes rather than disqualifiers. The lame firmware is a disqualifier almost as much as BGA. If I had to use any high end (or overpriced low end laptop) with crippled stock BIOS I would not spend a dime on anything. The only reason either one is capable of meeting my expectations is 100% thanks to Brother @Prema.

 

Clevo sees weak profits in 2016 ... is that because what @Phoenix did to them?

 

Does that include new products that are equivalent to or better than the P870?

 

I agree, I definitely wouldn't want to lose two 1080s for it personally.

 

Such a product does not actually exist at this time. Literally everything is eclipsed by it's shadow. Not because the P870 is amazing in every way. To the contrary, it is not even close to achieving perfection status. Nonetheless, everything else is substantially inferior in comparison. Most of the available options are grossly inferior. Being thin and light is a horrible curse from the pits of hell if you are a performance enthusiast or power user. What this means is that we all ultimately end up settling for what we individually regard as the lesser among all evils.

 

So do you see anyone else or even Clevo releasing a product capable of surpassing the P870 for this year?

I was actually quite interested in the Acer Predator 21x. If a reputable reseller offered that Acer product with their own customization options(e.g hidevolution) I'd likely jump on it immediately.

 

P870 is better and cheaper than acer. Packs same GPU with similar or even higher TDP (clevo 200w) and better desktop CPU.

Downside is you lose the better speaker array, tobii eyetrack, and curved screen.

With the mobility of the acer you might as well glue a mech kb onto the P870...

 

Buy P870
Overclock and outbench it
Buy mechanical keyboard
Buy hard case
Save $5000
Not cry as hard when you spill something on your $100 keyboard.

The 21x is like the gx800 with dock, so unportable it makes no sense. I can at least carry my p870 around in one hand.

I also wonder how many extra high end sales of DM3's Clevo wangled out of the unupgradeable P870DMG choice...

 

Well we have this, but Clevo won't be validated with another ODMs eGPU solutions.


http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/is-hansung-a-clevo-reseller.803074/

 

Looks like Clevo may soon have some serious competition from Quanta:

They haven't listed it on their site, but some resellers already carry their high end-ish NL9K model alongside Clevo options. See Fortune Technology and PC Specialist, for example. Based on annual revenue Quanta is about 175 times the size of Clevo, so it shouldn't be difficult to start offering higher end models as well. One thing that might prevent selling semi-directly would be agreements with their current customers, such as Asus and MSI.

 

Very inresting:
https://www.google.com/finance?q=Clevo&ei=AUbeWPndJ4XqUZ_5q8gE

 

Indeed Quanta are a monste of a company, they produce a whole lot more than most people even realise.

Also models similar to the NL9K have been around for quite a while, we have a really good relationship with Quanta. We actually decided not to take them several years ago for a number of reasons (not specifically becasue they were rubbish or anything). There are also quite a few other ODMs which people haven't heard of who make performance models, not all of them would work/sell in the "western" markets. As for Quanta being serious competition for Clevo, well I couldn't possibly comment but one thing you could ask is as Quanta have such a successful ODM business with chassis for the a-brands would it interest them to expand more into the Clevo area of ODM?

 

MSI wasn't validated either, but many of its TB3 systems work just fine with the Core. Even the new MacBook Pro works with it when using Windows via Boot Camp.

 

No, not at all. Acer sells only worthless BGA turdbooks, so their brand can be regarded as nothing more than a sadistic joke. But, there is nothing available in terms of superior tech for Clevo to use to make the P870 better. Ryzen is too new and unless they bring an 1800X model out it won't be better. Maybe next year something better will surface, but who knows. Things could also be worse next year. Only time will tell.

 

Just saying that this particular eGPU has been validated by Clevo, that's all ;-)

 

I should clarify that I think it would be really, really nice if you could just use the Core plug and play, which seems to be the case with the MSI GS line, but not with the Dell XPS where one BIOS revision seems to work but a later one breaks that compatibility. I never intended to suggest that Clevo need worry itself about any sort of validation process.

I'm certainly willing to be a guinea pig, as long as I could purchase a Core from a place where I could easily return it if it didn't work.

 

Are they even suprised? I mean cmon, they downgraded so much on quality that it made me vomit. I wanted to buy a new Clevo at first, but when I saw them I was dissapointed to no end.

The P15x and P17x have (in my oppinion) the best keyboards I've ever used on a Notebook. They are VERY comfy, they are durable and give nice feedback, all I could possibly want from a keyboard. Also the fact that they STILL have pretty bad speakers is also a dissapointment, they even removed the subwoofer because apperently they gave up on writing proper drivers on how to utilize the subwoofer.

I wanted at first a 17" solution as my "Working Station" but decided to switch to MSI, because the newer models simply werent attractive at all. Very high price for bad cooling, bad speakers, really flimsy and bad keyboard, very bad case, mediocre screen. I actually felt that clevo made a step backwards. I wouldn't be suprised that the production of the P15x P17x series was just 2 expensive over time. I mean the friggn 157sm notebook I have has 4 RAM slots, huge cooler, MXM slot, 2 SATA Slots for HDD/SSD and 2 M-SATA slots for SSDs.

My little 15 inch monster runs on 32GB ram and 3 SSDs + 1 SSHD, modded speakersystem, modded drivers etc. That thing is insane, to think that it is a 2013 model and still holds up very well in 2017.

 

p157sm was a 1900 euros laptop so it is comparable with a p750dm2-g
http://www.notebookcheck.net/Review-One-K56-3N2-Clevo-P157SM-Notebook.93275.0.html


http://www.notebookcheck.net/Schenker-XMG-U507-Clevo-P751DM2-G-Laptop-Review.209180.0.html

 

False.
The P157SM was a notebook that had a starting price at around 1000USD.
Depending on your configuration it would be more expensive.
So you cannot compare the two at all.

 

in this review they say 1870 euros
http://www.notebookcheck.net/Review-One-K56-3N2-Clevo-P157SM-Notebook.93275.0.html

 

http://www.notebookcheck.com/Schenker-XMG-P503-PRO.94429.0.html

1.300EUR, also gets cheaper if u select HDD instead of SSD and other small things like RAM. it's all about configuration. If you had a bit more than 1.000EUR you where good to go.

It all greatly depends on the configuration.

Weakest config of the New U507:
https://www.mysn.de/xmg-ultimate-gaming-laptops/xmg-u507

~1750EUR.

Also the temperatures on that thing are downright scary. The moment i see a 2 digit number that starts with a 9 I feel VERY uneasy, the moment I see a 3 digit number I shut it down and am scared that it will melt. I don't know how it's acceptable to have 100c on the CPU and 90c on the GPU. I mean my GTX 880M is on 88c on stresstest and that is a old architecture overclocked to the limit.

How is a non OC card reaching those numbers?

 

ah, i am knowing now that p503 was also a p157sm

1300 euros for i7-4700MQ, GTX 770M

yes 1870 euros configuration has an i7-4700mq, gtx780m, ssd 500gb
https://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/laptops/2013/08/07/schenker-xmg-p503-pro-review/2

in this other i7-4700MQ, a 320GB 5400rpm hard drive, 4GB RAM, a GTX 770M 1099 pounds (1292 euros)

with that prices it was cheaper! you are right

 

As you can see, back then you could buy a decent notebook, upgrade it over time and be happy for years to come.

Now you buy an inferior notebook that melts after months of usage for roughly 50% more money.
Idk about you, but this sure is flawless.

 

i need a new gpu quadro
http://www.notebookcheck.net/Schenker-XMG-U507-Clevo-P751DM2-G-Laptop-Review.209180.0.html

that temps of this review are taken in a p750dm2-g with a cpu i7-6700k or i7-7700k with a 91w tdp


if you test a p751dm2-g, with a cpu i7-6700 or i7-7700 with a 65w tdp, it is cooler

 

Mind showing me a benchmark? Also that won't fix the GPU temperatures one bit.

 

ask @ John@OBSIDIAN-PC for a temp test
he sent me a test a month ago as info but now i have not the link

 

The 8800M GTX is a 103W TDP card, the 1070 GTX is 120W+ so kts already using noticeable more power and thus outputting noticably more heat. Also:

- they noted that the gpu didn't their in the real world gameplay tests in the review

- they noted that prime and furmark is a synthetic benchmark and an extreme testing case, under which throttling is not unusual

- we don't know if they ran the fans on 100% load or not during prime and furmark

 

The 880M GTX is a 103W TDP card
* explicit lingo*!!!

The card stock is already like 125TDP and the one I have is overclocked to the point where it probably is already around 150TDP. Still runs cooler than the GTX 1070 in furmark. There is no way in hell that the GTX 880M is only 103TDP.

Everyone who upgraded from GTX 880M (with throttle fix) to GTX 980M or from GTX 780M to GTX 880M (with throttle fix) know that even the specified TDP 125 is no way accurate. The difference in temperature from cards that have supposedly around same TDP was simply way to great.

I Hope you read this:
This is an advice I can give you as a user and a person with common sense. I understand that we are talking about your product and I understand that you are bias towards your product, but try to be more openminded. If you have a flaw in your product, then instead of doing it Apple style and try to talk yourself out of it, then be more smart about it. If you see that the 230W PSU will indeed turn itself off because it's stressed to much, then don't offer a 230W, offer ONLY the 330W one. The more stressed out a PSU is, the faster it will die. People WILL complain over time and it WILL get back to bite you. If you see the temperatures are to high, then instead of talking your way out of it and saying it's unrealistic scenario (which it isn't btw), offer something better. Make your own cooling system, make sure that you are not just branding a Clevo barebones, but you actually have something different than the others.

To give you an example:
http://www.notebookcheck.net/fileadmin/Notebooks/Alienware/15_R3/stresstest.jpg

Here the same stresstest with the same card on an Alienware. 65c, that is a whooping 25c less than the Notebook you guys offer.

I already bought an XMG P503 notebook from you guys and I'm really satisfied, but if you guys would have done the same modding as I did on my notebook. Improving on the sound, correct drivers etc. you would have made something people would have thrown their money on you, you would have made a name for yourself and created a far bigger customer base.

Seriosuly I am just some random dude with limited knowledge and I managed to create a sound system by correcting mistakes that has been made in the Clevo barebones to the point where it rivals MSI's dynaudio. Any monkey with half a brain could do the things I did and the overall quality is insane. I basicially fixed most flaws on the clevo barebone and now if someone would review it back in 2013/2014 people would probably score it around 95%.

 

Ok firstly, you can probably see by the way that I typed “8800M GTX” instead of “880M GTX” as well as quite a few other typos, that I wrote that post in a hurry on my phone. I don’t expect you to automatically conclude that I made typos, I’m just stating now that that’s what happened. I also didn’t mean to type 103W but 123W and the 1070 is of course “125W+” – as per the relatively official but unofficial figures from Nvidia.

Secondly, I’m pretty sure that kind of language has no place on this forum – whether you agree with something or not.

I can read without text being written in bold thank you, there’s no point in shouting. I have read it and I hope you appreciate the time I have taken to do so and also to write a very comprehensive reply.

I don’t expect you to agree with everything that I have written, but it is factually correct.

- I didn’t comment on the 230W PSU text in the notebookcheck review, I hadn’t even seen it until I read the review before replying to your post.

- There is no problem with the 230W PSU under normal usage

- Clevo ship the chassis with a 230W PSU, one reason why it’s easier to offer this as the standard PSU

- Not everyone wants to carry round a 330W PSU as standard. You could say that maybe we could have the 330W as standard with the 230W as the optional one, but I don’t make that decision and that wouldn’t make you happy either

- I am not aware of any customers who have complained about the 230W PSU not being powerful enough in their U507 KB laptop

Have I personally tested the 230W PSU with Prime and Furmark in this chassis – no I haven’t. But I will look up the test data on our server on Monday, I can guarantee that if it was a problem in our testing then we wouldn’t have shipped the laptop for review.

However, Notebookcheck, who are independent, said:

“Apparently, the 230-watt power supply does not provide enough power for such extreme scenarios.”

“Due to the issue with the power supply that seems to only appear in unrealistic scenarios,”

Running Furmark and Prime95 simultaneously is, categorically, without question, an unrealistic scenario. More to the point, I did not say that it was my opinion, I said that notebookcheck who wrote the review said that it was unrealistic.


Please also refer to the quotes from the notebookcheck review above. Furmark is a GPU killer, running this with Prime95 is not accepted by anyone as a realistic temperature test.

That’s a BGA CPU and GPU laptop, it’s completely different to the U507. Did you see the massive 20C differences between the CPU cores on load in that 15 R3 review?


Also, and this is very very important, I have now been able to thoroughly read through the review and there’s something clearly very wrong with the temperature results from this U507 test. I can access our test figures for this specific laptop when I’m in the office on Monday, but this had a delidded 7700K. There’s no way that a delidded 7700K should be hitting 100C in Prime. As I mentioned in my previous post, we don’t know if they had the fans running at 100% or just on one of the auto profile settings, or if there’s something else wrong, but something is very wrong with the result in this review.

I mentioned on several occasions, in forum posts and in pm conversations with other members, that your work on the speakers in your laptop is impressive and admirable. I used to be a professional audio engineer and would appreciate this modding, plus I would be more than capable of doing it myself as I used to, among other things, design and build speaker enclosures for line arrays.

As you said, you are a random guy with limited knowledge - you won’t have any reason to know this, but if we changed the speakers in a Clevo chassis then we would actually have to put every chassis through EC and EMC certification again. This would cost thousands, I know as I have managed EMC, EC and FCC testing on multiple machines including laptops. Unfortunately, and I do honestly mean unfortunately, it’s much much harder to change parts, mod components and so on for a company than it is for an individual and we can’t just force Clevo to use different speakers in chassis.

I can’t say this without sounding arrogant, but as you brought the subject up and I'm replying to your point; people did throw their money at us, we sold the P503 in the thousands (as we do with most models that we sell) both XMG branded, to other companies as barebones and as direct ship partners.

Could the P503 have been better - yes of course it could have been. It is because companies like us put pressure on the ODMs that lots of these products see specific improvements. Maybe not everyone agrees that every model is better than the last, or that as I repeatedly see "ODMs never learn their lessons" - that's fine and it's an opinion. But the trend is
unequivocally rising, not falling.

This thread is now pretty seriously off topic btw...........

 

That's why i fixed it to GTX 880M.

I highly doubt "********" is actually that unacceptable of a term to use. I think it's pretty much a normal term these days.

Making the text bold was to catch your attention. I assume that representatives do not have time to read long texts sometimes, so I needed to make sure that you at least know that I tried. And no, you were far from factually correct, which my long reply (if u had truly read it) would understand by now.

EDIT: Apparently the forum sees the word as not acceptable, interestingly enough. Sorry for that then.

 

Remember GTX 880M is a very crippled graphics card. One of the worst ****y from Nvidia ever.

 

Exacly my point. If that mess of a card runs in my notebook with poor airflow with 88c, what excuse does someone have to run a GTX 1070 at 90c in a brand new model?

 

Not exactly 103W stock, but very close.

Stock TGP: GTX880M 105W

TGP is the spec for MXM board designs and already includes the entire board incl. vRAM etc

Where have you grabbed this number from? 125W Don't push out big claims on something you don't know nothing about.

There is more into why 880m doesn't work as expected. Even with good airflow will this flawed Nvidia Junk run hot although low stock TGP.

 

http://www.videocardbenchmark.net/gpu.php?gpu=GeForce+GTX+880M
EDIT: 2nd source: https://www.techpowerup.com/gpudb/2534/geforce-gtx-880m


Not to mention you actually contradict yourself:

Next thing u're gonna tell me is that the new "cheap" macbook "pro" are meant for pros because apple says so.

We all know that the specified TDP on the GTX 880M is as true as the term "Pro" on cheap apple products.