Clevo Inferior GPU's?

Alright, try to justify 4-5K USD pricetag on a 7700K notebook with GTX 1080 SLI. Video editing on 4k / 8k requires way more cores than a 7700K and a Rocket X, VM servers would need to constantly run and also need way more cores and firepower...actually anything that requires a "powerful" machine that isn't meant for gaming will need way more firepower than a 7700K could ever give you. In other words, justifying a notebook that has a GTX 1080SLI and 7700K will be an impossible task, but be my guest, try to justify it.

 

I do computer art (character rendering and animation), my 7700k and SLI works great. Mission accomplished.

I'm also a gamer. Double win for me!

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

 

Try to justify this...

 

You created this topic to try and find answers on an obviously flawed review/test. And now you are picking up fights with other users that contribute to the topic.

Whatever reason someone has to buy a computer, they don't have to justify it to you.

Do you have any of the affected/mentioned models in both the video or any model from any of the manufacturers, including sager, that you are interested in getting that will affect your decision to buy based on this topic? This incredibly convoluted question is because I, and others, don't see what you are trying to do here.

If you want real tests, you need to gather independent results by each of the manufacturers, in order to draw proper conclusions. LTT is not a trustworthy source of data considering the lack of tweaking on the machines, defaulting to any stock manufacturers profiles, inclunding what they already saw before (thermal throttling).

It seems to me you came to an early conclusion and you are trying to confirm this conclusion, instead of finding out what's happening. My take is that, most likely, the entire set of tests is flawed and you are better off first getting info from each device tested several times. I've seen many reviews online where machines I have owned, or currently own, score less in videos and end up drawing weird conclusions. Some issues are already known, like pointed by Falkentyne, MSI's ICCMax is so low it WILL throttle when overclocked, but only on specific conditions of the CPU load, and users might go their entire laptop lifespan without knowing.

We know there are power draw "issues" in MSI machines, and most likely every manufacturer has some conservative limit on their EC. Singling out Clevo for a video and picking up a fight here serves no one, so keep it civil.

 

1.) How is the test oviously flawed? I made this thread to find out if LLT was flawed or not since I'm aware that he does his tests and videos rather casual (bake graphicscard as "legit" fix *cough*) because all he does is slam some notebooks together and then test them, no modding etc, as most potential customer. So far only 1 person did some tests from this site, which was mirianda, and he also had less performance than the other notebooks AND noticed lesser performance when his CPU is overclocked to 4.5ghz in Mankind devided DX12, since he said his temps were fine, then why would he get less performance on his notebook when overclocking his CPU and having good temps other than power draw?

2.) I merely want to know if the gaming performance on a non prema desktop based Clevo is actually lower than the other GTX 1080 SLI notebooks for the sake of people asking, including some of my friends who want a new high end notebook for christmas and I refuse to suggest something that might be less of a gaming rig than much cheaper solutions. Mainly I'm interested in the Asus, MSI and Sager, the Acer is an entirely different priceclass.

3.) That's why I made this topic to get those results and how accurate LTT is in this particular benchmarking or if the results are complete bogus, instead it got bombarded by elitiest LGA users who won't contribute other than "BGA" sucks and "look at my machine".

4.) If I were that kind of guy I'd have ridiculous signatures like "LGA notebooks trash low perform garbage, LGA destroyer" or something similairly ridiculous like some others here have, again, I want to figure out how much of LTT's video is true, that's the reason I made this thread which got derailed by certain people.

5.) I'm aware that most MSI systems have power draw issues, in terms of overclocking it's not exacly the best thing to buy, but most people are casuals who don't wish to overclock anyways. MSI do usually have the best price / performance ratio tho, still if a Clevo for some reason should have less performance than lets say an MSI, then why would I want to ever suggest a clevo to anybody? Exacly, it wouldn't make any sense.

 

I'm sure you know/think all resellers/vendors use exact same bios/Ec versjon... And all owners of mentioned model use exactly same Nvidia drivers as well (+ all other drivers for the machine). How difficult most it be?

 

If you can't find why a test of basically identical machines, is flawed when all run at different clocks and all get different results....I can't point anything else there. Why are they not running at specific clocks? What driver versions? Power profiles? Performance is inconsistent across all machines, for basically identical specs.

I am not going to debate price/performance or value because that is not the point of the topic (which was to find out the sager's performance) and the power draw and conclusions regarding overclocking MSI are wrong (you should see what some users here have achieved, both in the CPU and GPU, overcoming EC limits and many things).

If you feel an user is attacking you (instead of your argument) feel free to report them. That is why we are here. But you are consistently battling all points and changing the point of the topic. Keep it civil. If you really want to find the truth of what is going on, stop assuming LTT was a correct test and instead gather proof for all machines. Don't go around basing your entire conclusion on such a badly conducted test.

Why would you even run cinebench for machines with identical CPUs, all running at different clocks? What would you expect? "Oh this machine is faster!" well, you could... just clock it to the same speed and get the same result.

 

couldnt have say it better. @Danishblunt this is how we felt when trying to talk with you. we bring proofs and fact, you change topic and make excuses, we continue to explain and further expand on those points yet you just end up going in circle and denying facts out right. no point of bringing in irrelevant topics.

 

It's possible to cut the weight by 30lbs and still have a cooling system much stronger than that pic.
CRT - > LCD panel
Speakers -> amp/dac + headphones
Box ->
https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811353002
6.7lbs
https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811353001
3.3lbs
A large external rad, block, and pump.
Less wood too

 

The video states that they simply put them in "overclock" power mode, clocks etc. are not really relevant in this case since, it's the "out of the box" experience that counts. Remember, I'm aiming to know which notebook is best for the normal User, which doesn't overclock, flash BIOS etc. All notebooks had basicially just some presets people could use, which is accurate for the standard user.

I'm talking about a stock MSI notebook, I'm aware you can fix the power draw issues with custom EC and BIOS, you have to look at this from a STOCK notebook, since most users still use STOCK notebooks. People buy those notebooks and want to play games, they don't want to open it up and fiddle around with it. The fact that the sager does perform well when in DX 11 but bad at DX 12, has absolutely nothing to do with Overclock, unless there are issues coming with the OC, or are you implying that Direct X 12 runs worse on higher clocked hardware?

Again, it's all about the OC profiles that those notebooks got. It's not about tweaking settings, modding the cooling solution etc. As a normal potential buyer you simply don't open up your notebook and fiddle with it. Not only that but if the theory with the powerdraw is correct, then that would mean unless you get premaBIOS (which isn't public) then that means u're also having bad experiences with users that are a bit more experienced. So far I can only talk about benchmarks from LTT and a user here on NBR, which both align with each other.

 

The simple fact that the NP9873 with 6700K and Z170 chipset (i.e. late 2016 P870DM3) is not the latest available model, that you might be considering buying right now alongside the GX800/21X/GT83VR were you shopping right now, means it is not a fair comparison.

 

Different bios/Ec or faulty unit can make a huge difference even with stock clocks. Eurcom SkyX9 and AVA Direct P870 is same Clevo model.

 

LTT is a PR guy, not really a legit reviewer

Especially on laptops

EDIT:

Ill go on to say that many of things he considers pros or cons piss me off to no end that I stopped watching any of his content altogether.

 

After following most of your messages here, my answer is "Yes".
It will be a loss to people that really need a portable workstation to lose someone that tries to improve systems and does a good job to improve the community.

 

hopefully mr fox will come back to clevo or F7 once intel gone 8 cores with mainstream, assuming everything else is just as nice, ie cooling, design etc.

 

exactly, thank you!

 

Desktops are boring and easy

 

And, more powerful. And, much less expensive to upgrade. And, more upgradeable. - I'm ready for something to be easy for a change. I'm getting kind of burned out on having to fix so many borked and broken things on new laptops. The 16L13 has been an equally challenging pain in the ass to get everything right. In both cases it has been worth it in the long run, but just barely. Awesome that HIDevolution is applying the knowledge to help their customers, too.

I still love my P870DM3 and think it is the best laptop I have ever owned, without exception. Before the DM3, the DM-G was the best laptop I have ever owned, without exception. I really love them... awesome machines. But, neither one was acceptable to me with stock firmware. All of the tweaks and mods to get the cooling right is sort of fun at first, but it gets old pretty fast and later on I begin to wonder why I spent so much money on something that was messed up from the factory and required so much effort to correct.

Just wait until the DM-G 1080 mod is finished and I show everyone what is involved with making it bootable on an older machine. I'm pretty sure hardly anyone is going to want to try it. Thank God for @Prema and @Khenglish and their help or I would have already given up on that and used the MSI 1080 (plug and play with that GPU). Clevo really screwed us hard on the MXM pin-out changes made to their 1080. Form factor was enough change to deal with and the MXM pin-out change just adds insult to injury. I wouldn't bet my paycheck on it, but I am pretty sure they did it to block upgrades and stop people from using their 1080 GPUs in other brands. Proprietary stuff (and dirty pool) always sucks.

 

SFF desktops are fun to build out too, if and when I ever get a desktop its always SFF

 

This doesn't seem too boring to me.

 

Psh, I built something on the same level in a 5th of the volume.

 

Wall oriented builds are interesting when you hook it up to Radiator from a Buick

 

I thought it was a nice video and looked pretty, but when the time comes I will use a open air test bench, not a case.

 

It's going to have to be something a little different for me

 

How about a laboratory mini-fridge?

Some of them have optional ports, so you might thread through the DC, video and usb peripherals and run the system in a -40°C environment.

 

Would need to be ventilated near the top to exhaust the heat. A chest freezer would also work. The door being open on top allows the heat to escape while the cold air stays in the chest.

Linus tried and failed, but hey... It was Linus, so go figure. It was more of a joke or stunt than a serious mod effort in his video. He definitely used the wrong kind of fridge for the job.

I mainly want something that I can spend more time benching and tweaking and having fun with and less time correcting problems someone else created just so the fun can start.

 

You only really need to tweak a desktop once though if you do it properly.

 

This makes no sense Meaker. You know he's benchmarking and thus will continually try and push the envelope.

 

I mean you could deliberately try and not do everything at once, but on a desktop you push the envelope once and there is nothing left to play with unless driver variations excite you.

 

Its not exactly the X58 era anymore.

Though I dont know if the new HEDT overclock differently from the mainstream offerings. I dont pay attention to much of that.

 

18 cores run so hot. prob best to wait for 10nm or 10nm+ HEDT. a die shrink of same 18 cores might reduce temp and power consumption by quite a bit assuming we have no need for 18 cores atm other than benching.

 

Yeah they can eat more power than a fully loaded P870 series machine when being pushed.

 

That's just a failure of your imagination

I can think of a tonne of stuff to do with that many cores. It's mostly the same stuff I'd do on 8 cores....but it would just get done a lot faster

 

naw bro, not a failure. more of a successful imagination but mixed by being realistic. i got a ton of things to use 18 cores for especially if i wish to play games on 6 display along with vmware. just aint gonna happen in a laptop though, wish it did.