Clevo P370EM vs Clevo P170EM? (As well as other technical questions.)

Note: This was originally posted on the XoticPC forums, since that's where I'm looking to buy my notebook. I really hope that I'm posting this thread in the right place, because this is the only dedicated Clevo sub-forum I saw, and I wanted input from Clevo owners.

I'm really trying to be smart about this purchase, since it will be the first notebook I'm buying solely with my own money, and at a very high price. Any input will be a big help!


General Questions

1) What is your budget?
Trying to keep the total build cost under $2000 dollars. Notice I said "trying"...

2) What size notebook would you prefer?
Desktop replacement; 17"+.

3) What country (and state) are you buying this in?
Hawaii, USA.

4) Are there any brands that you prefer or any you really don't like?
I don't like Dell, ASUS, or Lenovo. I don't know much about MSI. I have mixed feelings about Alienware (and yes, I know they are Dell). I've done a lot of research about Clevo/Sager notebooks and I am pretty much 99% positive that this is the company I want to buy, so I'm not really looking for suggestions to buy other companies' products.

5) What tasks will you be performing with the notebook?
Web use, graphic art (Adobe products), general business related software (Word, Excel, etc), casual DAW (digital audio workshop) use, and current generation gaming and online gaming.

6) Will you be taking the notebook with you to different places or leaving it on your desk?
It will be mobile to some extent, but I understand the size of the notebook type that I want and I'm fine with the weight and size.

7) Will you be playing games on it; if so, which games?
Yes. Demanding games such as Skyrim, Metro 2033, etc.

8) How many hours of battery life do you need?
Not too worried. 2-3 hours is what I expect.

9) Do you mind buying online without seeing the notebook in person?
I'm buying from XoticPC, so that seems like a silly question.

10) Which OS do you prefer?
I love XP Pro, but for program compatibility I'll be using the cheapest version of Windows 7 (even though I don't want to).

Screen Specifics

11) From the choices below, what screen resolutions would you prefer? (more details below)
1920x1080 or something similar for gaming.

12) Do you want a glossy/reflective screen or a matte/non glossy screen?
I'm really not sure here. I was set on a matte screen, but then I've heard about refresh rate problems with Clevo matte screens. I also hear that glossy screens do make graphics look richer and more vibrant. I'm really unsure on this one.

Build Quality and Design

13) Are the notebook's looks and stylishness important to you?
Not really, no. It needs to perform.

14) When are you buying this laptop and how long do you want this laptop to last?
Realistically, a few years. I plan to upgrade the GPU in the future though to handle new games, because this will be a GAMING laptop.

Notebook Components

15) How much hard drive space do you want; 250GB, 320GB, 500GB, 750GB, 1TB, or 1.5TB?
I'm not positive yet. I think 750GB will suit my needs just fine though.

16) Would you prefer a SSD Hard Drive? How much space do you want?
I'm also not sure about this yet, but I will probably a modest SSD to boot from and run some high impact games on to kill load times (like Skyrim).

17) Do you need an optical drive? If yes, a CDRW/DVD-ROM, CD/DVD Burner or Blu-Ray drive?
I'm old school, so while I do almost everything digitally, I DO want an optical drive. For $75, I think I do want the entry level Blu-Ray drive.

18) What speed CPU/Processor would you like? Dual core or Quad Core CPU?
Quad core, although I'm not too worried about having the top of the line model.

19) Do you use wireless, or do you plan on using it? Do you use Bluetooth, or do you plan on using it?
I plan on using wireless for online gaming. I can do with or without Bluetooth.


---


Now then, here are the two systems I have "built". I really don't know a whole lot about why I should buy one over the other, so I'm looking for some serious insight into this. Here is the first system; the P370EM:


Display: 17.3" Sager FHD 16:9 "Matte Type" Super Clear Ultra Bright LED Matte Screen (1920x1080) (SKU - S1R401) ( + 30 )
I'd love more insight on the difference between matte and glossy screens. Do matte screens really affect the vibrancy? Also, is the 72% color gamut screen really worth the extra $120 and 4-7 day build time addition?

Processor: Sager - 3rd Generation Intel® Ivy Bridge Core™ i7-3610QM (2.3GHz - 3.3GHz, 6MB Intel® Smart Cache, 45W Max TDP) (SKU – S2R174)
This will be a gaming laptop primarily, and I've heard the difference in performance between these processors is almost null. Is there any good reason to upgrade this?

Thermal Compound: IC Diamond Thermal Compound - CPU + GPU ( + 35 )
Is this worth the extra money? I'm not that technically proficient at upgrading notebooks myself, so for $35 this doesn't sound like a bad addition. I also want to upgrade the GPU in the future, for example, when setting up SLI GTX 680Ms will be much cheaper. Is this a good addition in that respect to handle a stronger, hotter GPU/s down the road?

Graphics Video Card: SLi ENABLED DUAL (2) 1536MB PCI-Express nVIDIA GTX 670M's (3072MB Total) w/ GDDR5 DX11 Video Cards [User Upgradeable] (SKU - S3R704)
This is probably one of the biggest concerns for me. Up to this point, I was planning on building a notebook with a single 680M, in the hope that I could buy another one down the line and SLI them (I think this is possible?). However, that's another $250 on this notebook, and from what I see, it LOOKS like 670M SLI only very slightly weaker than a single 680M. Is this true? I also hear that the 670M SLI setup can be overclocked better than a single 680M, allowing you to actually surpass the capabilities of the 680M. I'm hoping that the 670M SLI will play all current gen games at the highest settings (ultra) just fine for awhile (bar some games, like The Secret World and Darksiders 2), and that once the price on the 680M SLI setup drops in the future, I can upgrade to that. Is this a smart plan, or is it nonsense? This is probably the biggest concern I have that I want feedback on. Remember that another $250 add on really hurts my budget here and may really make me have to cut corners in other places.

Copper Cooling Upgrade: Extra Cooling Copper Heatsinks Applied to the Heatsink/Heatpipes (Adds to Build time) (XPC Service) ( + 79 )
This is a bit of a pricey upgrade, but along the same lines as adding the thermal compound to the build, is this a good idea to keep the system cool and capable of handling a stronger GPU in the future?

Ram: 8GB - DDR3 1600MHz Dual Channel Memory (2 SODIMMS) (SKU - S4S423P)
I really don't think I need an upgrade here. 8GB is more than enough to handle anything, right? Especially gaming? For only $15 more, I could have 12GB. Is that a smart upgrade, or totally useless?

mSATA SSD Drive: 64GB Crucial M4 mSATA SSD - Preconfigured for Intel SRT ( Smart Response Technology ) ( + 100 )
I'm not worried about having a massive SSD here, so is this a good add on? I want to boot from an SSD, and install some high impact games to cut down on loading times. What would you say about this, and would it really be that bad to just take this out of the build?

Hard Drive: 750gb 7200rpm (Serial-ATA II 300 - 16MB Cache) (SKU - S5R306) ( + 20 )
I'm planning on getting a couple TB external hard drive in the future, so this should be a simple, effective buy, right?

Optical Drive Bay: 6x Blu-Ray Read/8X DVDRW Super Multi Combo Drive - Special! (SKU - S7P557) ( + 75 )
This should handle all my optical drive needs with ease, right? Any reason I should or shouldn't go with this option?

Wireless Network: Sager - Bigfoot Networks Killer™ Wireless-N 1103 (3x3) (SKU - S8R056) ( + 60 )
I'm unsure if I really need the top of the line option here, but I keep hearing about how important having a Bigfoot Networks Killer is, and the next step down from this is only $10 less. Do I need this for online gaming? How important is it? Should I buy a cheaper one?

Sound Card: Sound Blaster Compatible 3D Audio - Included
Not much to say here; I don't think I'm willing to pay another $100 for sound. I have headphones that I use as well, so this shouldn't be a big issue. I HAVE heard about some headphone issues with Clevos though. What can anyone tell me about that?

Redline Boosts: N/A
Is there any good reason I should look into these options? They're quite expensive and it seems like you can do this yourself. Is overclocking this machine difficult for someone who isn't extremely technically inclined? Is it worth the extra money?

Premium Packaging: N\A
What use is this? If the notebook comes to me and has been damaged during transit, wouldn't I just send it back anyways? I can't imagine that I would be responsible to just deal with the damage, correct?


---


One down, one to go. Here are the specs for the P170EM:


Display: 17.3" Sager FHD 16:9 "Matte Type" Super Clear Ultra Bright LED Matte Screen (1920x1080) (SKU - S1R401) ( + 30 )
(See first setup.)

Processor: Sager - 3rd Generation Intel® Ivy Bridge Core™ i7-3610QM (2.3GHz - 3.3GHz, 6MB Intel® Smart Cache, 45W Max TDP) (SKU – S2R174)
(See first setup.)

Thermal Compound: IC Diamond Thermal Compound - CPU + GPU ( + 35 )
(See first setup.)

Graphics Video Card: nVidia GeForce GTX 680M 4,096MB PCI-Express GDDR5 DX11 with Optimus Technology [User Upgradeable] (SKU - S3R406) ( + 495 )
This is a REALLY big hit on my budget, but it seems like XoticPC doesn't give SLI options for this system. Is this system NOT CAPABLE of running a SLI setup? Why are those options missing? Also please see the comments on the first setup regarding the GPU.

Copper Cooling Upgrade: Extra Cooling Copper Heatsinks Applied to the Heatsink/Heatpipes (Adds to Build time) (XPC Service) ( + 79 )
(See first setup.)

Ram: 8GB - DDR3 1600MHz Dual Channel Memory (2 SODIMMS) (SKU - S4S423P)
(See first setup.)

mSATA SSD Drive: 64GB Crucial M4 mSATA SSD - Preconfigured for Intel SRT ( Smart Response Technology ) ( + 100 )
(See first setup.)

Hard Drive: 750gb 7200rpm (Serial-ATA II 300 - 16MB Cache) (SKU - S5R306) ( + 20 )
(See first setup.)

Optical Drive Bay: 6x Blu-Ray Read/8X DVDRW Super Multi Combo Drive - Special! (SKU - S7P557) ( + 75 )
(See first setup.)

Wireless Network: Sager - Built-in 802.11 Wireless B/G/N - Stock Wireless Card + Bluetooth™ v3.0 (SKU - S8R110)
This one is tough. Putting the 680M GPU into the build KILLS my budget, and I have to cut corners here. What should I do? See the wireless network questions in the first setup too.

Sound Card: Sound Blaster Compatible 3D Audio - Included
(See first setup.)

Redline Boosts: N/A
(See first setup.)

Premium Packaging: N\A
(See first setup.)


---


And that's it. Sorry for the MASSIVE post, but I really want to be thorough here. It seems like going with the P370EM would be the best option, because I really don't have to cut corners with the 670M SLI GPU being included in the price, but like I said before, I'm not sure if that's the smartest buy. It also seems like the P370EM is newer, but does that mean it's a better choice? Is it going to stay technologically relevant longer than the P170EM?

Any help here would be GREATLY appreciated!

 

If a SLI setup and a single GPU setup have similar performance and pricing, always pick the single GPU config.

To save money (while spending more of your own time: re installing windows, waiting on component shipping, shopping around, repaste/modding etc):
Drop Thermal Compound/Cooling Mod
Drop the SSD
Drop the optical drive upgrade
Drop the RAM to 1333 seeing you get get $50 discount (you can get 16GB 1600 around 70)
Drop anything you can add after market.
Upgrading the HDD is fine but you can always save that and add another one.
For the wireless, get the 1202 if you insist of getting Killer, the 1202 is newer model and 3x3 probably will not help on ping .(and you need a proper 3x3 router to make it work at peak level)

Not sure of your config price, 170em with windows come up to 1788 on mine with the suggestion above.

Pretty sure other may know other tweaks around.

Edit: just notice you are in Hawaii, you may want to factor in the shipping cost.

 

That's the thing, they aren't similar in price. On one notebook, it's a $450 jump, and on the other, it's a $250 jump. What I'm saying is, if they're similar in performance (are they or not?), I don't want to spend $250 more for the same performance. That's a huge hit on my budget. My plan is to upgrade later rather than sooner, when I can get the next step up for a cheaper price.

The 680M is shiny new and extremely expensive right now. That's a problem for me.

Another problem (like I said a few times), is that I'm REALLY new to all of this. I have hardly worked on desktops, let alone notebooks. I don't know how to do these upgrades myself, and I don't want a $1500+ purchase to be my first "trial and error" attempt at learning.

I understand that it's always cheaper to build things part by part yourself, but I'm not capable of that.

Is there a reason behind these suggestions besides just pinching pennies? I do want these options.

I completely missed that. Thanks for the heads up.

As I said before, that's a hard point for me since I'm not proficient in doing this stuff myself. I would like a good base to start with that I don't immediately have to put together and upgrade myself, giving myself the option of upgrading it later at my own pace.

I guess I just saw that upgrade as an extra 250GB for $20. I do know how to change hard drives no problem, but for $20 it seems like an easy choice.

Okay, thanks for the info.

I'm hitting $1928 right now with the extras like cooling, Blu-Ray, SSD, but also including the SLI 670M setup. I'm still really torn on spending another $250 for the same performance...

Indeed. I'm not sure what the shipping is going to be. Hopefully no more than $75, I'd imagine. That would keep me under budget with this setup.

Thanks a bunch for the reply. There are still loads of unanswered questions in my post, but you've definitely got me on the right track concerning certain things.

No opinion or idea between the P370EM and P170EM, huh? I'm still leaning towards the 370, since it's much newer, but I haven't heard any input on that anywhere I've looked.

 

After realize you are in Hawaii(shipping cost for the component) and you don't want to tinker with the computer(even if you do,when think about shipping for warranty incase w.e. -> not really worth it), here is what I think:
Get the SSD, so you dun have to hassle with windows installation.
Unless you absolutely need the BR (ie you are planning to view BR on computer) skip the optical drive upgrade.
The extra 250GB for 20 is not a bad investment.

Other who familiar with clevo/sager will probably be able to get the answer on GPU and the model. It pretty late over here .

Edit: The optical drive really is not a hard upgrade and cost around half if you DIY.

Edit: if you may want to consider the 7970m on p370em, which do not suffer from the enduro problem iirc.

 

Alright, thanks again for the info. I'll definitely keep all that in mind. I don't have a PS3, so a Blu-Ray drive would be really nice to have, but not really a necessity. I'll look into doing that myself later on.

It seems like 9 out of 10 people will say to get the 680M, it's just going to be really rough adding $250 onto the build cost... I know the SLI 670M setup is going to produce a lot more heat and power consumption, but if it's performing generally the same, it's really tempting for $250 less (not to mention having good overclocking ability, from what I've heard).

I wish notebookcheck.com had a page for 670M SLI so I could have benchmarks and whatnot on hand to compare better. It's impossible to find any comparisons between a single 680M and 670M SLI! All notebookcheck.com has is the 670M, 675M, 675M SLI, 680M, 680M SLI. I don't understand why they skipped the 670M SLI...


EDIT: Just noticed your edit about the 7970M. I've spent the last two hours looking into that, I think that's a REALLY good idea. For $250, I think I really like that option and having the current gen single GPU. The only thing that worries me is that Sager said that single GPU P370EMs only come with one GPU fan, whereas dual GPU machines come with two. Still looking into that.

 

Currently AMD is promising 7970M fixes.

So.. yeah

 

Yeah, I think I'm going to go with the 7970. I'll post my new setup in a second.


EDIT:

I think I'm pretty set on the 7970M, simply because it's a current gen card that has way more usefulness in it compared to a SLi/Crossfire setup with old cards. Plus it's a free upgrade in the Clevo P370EM I'm getting compared to a $250 premium with the 680M.

I still hear so much bad about AMD cards, and so much "no, they're not bad" about them. Honestly, I have to say that I'm willing to deal with a little bit harder of a time if it's going to save me $250. I'm also patient enough to wait for new drivers, and ones good enough to get the Crossfire setup stable before I decide to add another card later when they get cheaper. People make it sound like that's such a bad idea because they won't be cheaper and all this nonsense "until the next gen of cards comes out", but like... how long will that be? 6 months to a year? Not a long time at all.

For reference, the highest quality games I'll be playing in the near future will probably be Witcher 2, Skyrim, Borderlands 2, Alan Wake, etc. Here's the system I'll be buying (probably).

(Again, this is me setting up a Clevo P370EM/Sager NP9370 on XoticPC.com)


Display: 17.3" Sager FHD 16:9 "Matte Type" Super Clear Ultra Bright LED Matte Screen (1920x1080) (SKU - S1R401) ( + 30 )
Any thoughts on this? Is it worth the extra $120 for the 72% color gamut screen, or what are your thoughts on this screen vs the stock glossy screen?

Processor: Sager - 3rd Generation Intel® Ivy Bridge Core™ i7-3610QM (2.3GHz - 3.3GHz, 6MB Intel® Smart Cache, 45W Max TDP) (SKU – S2R174)
Any reason I should upgrade this if I'll be gaming primarily? I've heard this CPU is more than enough, but I'm not positive.

Thermal Compound: IC Diamond Thermal Compound - CPU + GPU ( + 35 )

Graphics Video Card: AMD Radeon HD 7970M (2048MB) GDDR5 DX11 [User Upgradeable] (SKU - S3R705) ( + 0 )

Copper Cooling Upgrade: Extra Cooling Copper Heatsinks Applied to the Heatsink/Heatpipes (Adds to Build time) (XPC Service) ( + 79 )
Like the thermal compound, I'm adding this option because I'm new to working on notebooks. I don't want ANY trial and error projects with my first powerful system. Is this worth the upgrade though? Will the system be fine with just the extra thermal paste?

Ram: 8GB - DDR3 1333MHz Dual Channel Memory (2 SODIMMS) - SPECIAL! (SKU - S4T424M) ( - 50 )

mSATA SSD Drive: 128GB Crucial M4 mSATA SSD - Preconfigured as an OS Drive ( Operating System – Drive C: ) ( + 150 )
An expensive upgrade, but this is something I'd really like to have. I'll use to boot from, have it come installed with Windows 7 all ready to go. Thoughts?

Hard Drive: 750gb 7200rpm (Serial-ATA II 300 - 16MB Cache) (SKU - S5R306) ( + 20 )

Optical Drive Bay: Combo Dual Layer SuperMulti DVDRW/CDRW Drive w/ Software (SKU - S7R455)

Wireless Network: Sager - Bigfoot Networks Killer™ Wireless-N 1202 + Bluetooth 4.0 (Dual Band) (SKU – S8R008) ( + 50 )

Sound Card: Sound Blaster Compatible 3D Audio - Included

Redline Boosts: N/A
Xotic PC offers overclocking boosts like this. Any thoughts on that?


Any more thoughts would be very helpful!

 

Talking about those games.. I would just get the P170EM, the SLI configuration and XFire config isn't strong enough yet, it'll be easier to get a P170EM save the extra money and get a better SSD.

But overall it looks really good.

And no the Redline Boosts! Better off OC yourself via MSI Afterburner and so on, it's easy to learn

The machine will be fine with IC Diamond compound.. the extra copper cooling willl do good, but it is not worth 80$, buy some copper heatsinks yourself and apply them, there's NOTHING to do wrong, no errors, you just have to stick them on.

 

I was wondering what XoticPC quoted you on shipping because I wanted to order an NP9170 as well but when I sent an e-mail for a quote they said it would be like 100-150 dollars which kind of threw me off.

 

Hey Mike, sorry for replying so late to this. See my topic here for my full experience on shipping and Xotic PC:

http://forum.notebookreview.com/sag...-hawaii-alaska-buyers-beware.html#post8873019

Basically, that estimate is right. It's utterly ridiculous, but it's right.

 

I'm soon to receive my p170em with gtx680, I changed my order from the 7970m after reading about the enduro issues but the 7970m card is excellent value and it made me regret somewhat that I didn't research more on the p370em as this new sli laptop is well priced and paired with the excellent value for money ati 7970m's will get 3dmark vantage scores of well over 30k. The nvidia 680m still gets 25k so for a single gpu option it's probably enough.

The p370ems cooling is barely adequate and like my old m1730 sli xps laptop it will have to live on a laptop cooler if you want it to last for as long as possible before it fries.

Thanks to the high price of the nvidia 680m it makes spending a couple hundred dollars more on the p370em with crossfire ati 7970's a very attractive option.

If I had the choice again I may have gone with the p370em just for the shear power of the crossfire 7970m's.

However the p170em has better cooling and I suspect a longer lifespan. My old m1730 sli xps needed repairs every year from heavy

gaming and only modest overclocking and it even partially melted the rear video card exhaust vent. The motherboard was replaced because the video cards fused to it I think

Also having no enduro makes the p370em with crossfire ati 7970's a real gaming powerhouse but of course this will be a power hungry laptop and if you were trying to be eco friendly or using solar panels the p170em with optimus and the less power consuming nvidia gtx680 would be the way to go.

As far as I'm concerned I'm sure I'll be happy when my p170em turns up today with the nvidia 680m.
But I'll always think about the p370em with crossfire 7970m's being not a great deal more expensive thanks to mafia nvidia.

 

What do you mean the P370EM cooling is barely adequate? Each card has their own cooling fan. Temps are 70-80C at peak load, about on par with P150EM which should be same for P170EM.

 

Yeah, this. I'm not sure what you read, but the cooling on the P370EM is excellent. An hour or two of MAX settings on Battlefield 3 (on very busy campaign level) only got my 680M up to 68-70c. A fully modded (ENB, HQ textures, forced hires shadow settings) Skyrim only gets it up to 55c tops. And I'm getting 45+ FPS on Battlefield 3 campaign and generally the same on Skyrim (ENB mods are very taxing on the FPS, but it only drops into the lower 30s when I'm in dense forestry). Even playing two instances of Borderlands 2 at the same time (for splitscreen) is only getting the card up to 55c tops (although the FPS is pretty awful unless the settings are low).

I've been running my 370 through the gaming grinder so to speak, and I'm not seeing any issues. It's solid as a rock too (try not to drop it on your foot, it will stab, cut, or break it somehow I'm sure).

 

Lets wait and see, the p370em hasn't been out for very long, I thought my old sli xps was the bees knees at first too.

I hear that one gpu always runs hotter then the other, is this true?

 

There has been 2 instances of this. So I would go ahead and say no. Simply because we've got more than 40 users with the P370EM now

 

I got my p170em with i73630qm and gtx680m yesterday. Oh my god it's awesome and not as big as I thought it was going to be. It's still fairly heavy.

I haven't had a single bsod with this stable beuaty and temps only barely go over 50 degrees when heavy gaming at 1080p max settings with vsync but aa at 4x.

I'm shocked at how fast this thing is. Do you get issues with 3dmark? I can't get it to bench properly, though there is an issue apparently.

 

I highly doubt it's running a "heavy" game like Battlefield 3 at 50c on max settings. Not mention 4x AA is not max settings (even for older games that only go up to 4x, you can usually force them to go higher via other means). That said, I've only found two games that have brought me over 50c with the same setup on the 370, BF3 and Borderlands 2.

Not sure what there is to "wait and see". New as it may be, lots of people have 370s, and there is no noteworthy difference in temps. I don't have and SLi setup though, so I can't comment on that.