Clevo W740SU 14.1"

My last few laptops have been Dell Latitudes and Precisions. The build quality is comparable to those. The LCD panel is much thinner than my current Precision, but doesn't seem cheap. This laptop is not a looker like the MacBook Air, but is not ugly in any way. The material is not a fingerprint magnet. There is more flex on the screen if you bend it back in forth compared to my Precision and also a very small amount of screen wobble when you type fast on a hard surface - maybe not fair comparison because the Precision is a bit of a tank. The wobble is really not that bad and not a distraction. The hinges are looser than the rest of the laptops in my house but the screen stays put and does not slip.

I'm going to be writing up a longer review later this week, specifically about the hardware support under Linux.

 

Thanks for offering to write a review. I'm sure quite a few folks here are looking forward to it. I certainly am, for one.

-TC

 

Someone in Macau posted some stuff comparing to his macbooks etc. Say they like the keyboard, screen etc. Was a short interesting read for what its worth.

Review: Several days with System76 Galago UltraPro | Software Socialist

I'm curious why the Gigabyte P34G is clocked at 2.4ghz while this one is 2.0ghz? Same processor?

 

I wrote up a full review of the Galago here. I'll keep it updated with any information I receive from System76 support and any additional thoughts and discoveries.

 

Does anyone have a picture of the charger?

 

I got a chicony a10-090p3a. It is a fairly standard brick with mickey mouse connector. The photos I found online are accurate.

 

Just placed an order for a windows version from Mythlogic. Fingers crossed this is a good machine. Mainly will be using for video editing/encoding along with some photo stuff. Might play the odd game if have time, but not likely.

 

Thanks for the review, Jason! Regarding the keyboard, I posted a response from System76 on a previous page saying they were taking steps to fix the keyboard issues by soldering a metal plate underneath it. Do you know if yours was the newer keyboard or if you got the old one?

 

I'm not sure how to tell. I have an open support request with System76. I sure hope it is the old one because it's pretty bad.

 

Clevo W740SU sold by CyberPower as the Zeus Hercules:

Zeus Hercules Gaming Notebook

 

I'm getting really frustrated by this laptop. One of the reasons i bought it was because it was being sold as a linux ready machine, but gee I'm only having problems ... My samsung series 5 with amd processor was easier to get working smoothly. Out of the box the Intel graphics won't play videos, after installing updated Intel drivers videos just lag and fans run full speed. Power managment seems weird, fans turn on and off when in Win 8 they stay quiet most of the time, even when playing games like Don't starve (where on linux they run at FULL speed). I'm really not technical enough to bother all of this. I thought the laptop was linux ready when it comes to drivers etc. The touchpad is also terrible when using linux.
Do the System76 laptops come pre-configured or something?

Also my display have started to bleed in the bottom corners. Anyone else got this problem? Also, if there is any pressure on the screen at all (if it rest against a wall or something) the whole screen bleeds badly when there is a dark picture on.

 

The Intel driver problems were reported in a Phoronix article using the Gazelle Professional - the issue is that the kernel and intel driver in Ubuntu 13.04 is buggy on Haswell. You'd want a more recent kernel. You can get, say, 3.10 from launchpad though, which that review said runs Haswell graphics rock solid.

I'm kind of dissapointed in this thing. The shoddy construction seems underwhelming for housing a $450 cpu and apparently really good display. Is there anything like this, where (for a linux system) you can get a 14 - 16" screen and cpu of this caliber, with integrated graphics, linux friendly parts (preferrably no binary blobs), that is better built? I'd throw money at something for $12 - 1300 like this with an aluminum body and touch screen.

 

Could folks who's received their machines, please comment on dead pixels? As pixel density of the screens have gone up, presence of a few dead pixels is supposed to be acceptable. This was my gripe with Dell XPS 13 FHD. By changing the acceptance criteria, there's a nice new market created for selling added no-dead-pixel warranties!

And folks commenting on the keyboard and trackpad, could you please include your past machines for reference? This way we know what you're comparing against. Reviews of these have been a mixed bag. I'd be moving to this machine from an about-to-die MacBook from 2006 (first gen with Intel processor). I never knew of existence of problems like keyboard flex and finicky trackpads until I started going through forums like this to determine my next machine. So you see past experience forms a strong baseline to next expectation.

-TC

 

I ended up returning my Galago. I have used probably over a dozen laptops for work and home and this was the first lemon I've encountered. I was running back to my old laptop after having used it for a while. Maybe the trackpad works better under Windows but the keyboard would have the same problem.

I didn't notice any dead pixels. I thought the screen was fine.

You asked about previous laptops. I have a Dell Precision M4600. Before that I used a Dell Latitude E5520 and before that several older Dell Latitudes and Lenovo T series. Before that I can't remember. At home we have an Acer Timeline X, Dell Vostro something or other and HP Pavilion. Some of these are entry level machines and the keyboard and trackpads are all acceptable. The Galago was my first notebook with an all-in-one trackpad - everything else I've used has separate buttons below the trackpad. I'm able to use the all-in-one trackpads on MacBooks - there was something wrong with the trackpad or Linux driver software on the Galago.

 

I don't know why Synaptics made the defaults different across OSes. But was it really that difficult to read Synaptics's Linux driver manual, and get whatever function you need working?

 

Probably not. It was really the keyboard that was the deal breaker for me. To be honest, I don't want to fiddle with trackpad, video and alsa settings and drivers to get everything working under Linux. I accept that I bought the wrong hardware for my requirements.

 

Thanks for the thorough info. Sorry to hear that you weren't offered keyboard fix by System76 while others have been. No wonder you returned the machine. What I find surprising is that you had to fidget with software settings and drivers for Linux to get things going. And you had bought the machine from a Linux vendor! I wonder how much worse it'd be for someone purchasing it barebones from, say, RJTech or Mythlogic, and wanting to run (K/X)Ubuntu on it on their own.

Clevo dropped the ball big time on this one with keyboard and trackpad. I think everyone had high hopes which seem to have gone unfulfilled, not to mention the delay in getting it to market, especially in the US. I'm now more nervous for my purchase that's going to show up next week... damn you Labor Day for prolonging the delivery!

-TC

 

I feel for the linux user experiences, but since I'll only be using Windows, I'm going to reserve judgement and give the machine a fair chance. On the big Schenker S413 review, they really praise the trackpad, besides a slight loud click. And it does sound like there is a keyboard fix. The schenker review also comments on light bleed being perfectly acceptable etc. I really want to see how the Gigabyte P34 shakes out, but I really don't need that kind of gpu power, and so many of these powerful ivy bridge and haswell chips run very very hot with throttling, that the hyperbaric cooling system in the 740 looks really good. And it's not like Gigabyte are a long standing builder of quality laptops either. Guess we'll find out soon enough......or maybe not, seems like these things are ghosts.

 

Looks like Dave Pollak also returned his Galago Ultrapro.

 

Clevo has a very solid track record of making terrible keyboards. This one is nothing new, and totally expected.

 

I guess it's an expectation gap - this was my first personal purchase from a premium Linux vendor. There isn't a huge price premium - about $100 more than the same bits from Mythlogic w/o Windows. Having worked with Linux and laptops for a long time, the assumption is that if you buy from Mythlogic, you are going to have to fiddle around to get sh** working. System76 sold this knowing there are problems, or their QA department didn't catch them. Either way, the user gets shafted. Looking through their support forums, it seems pretty safe to say this happens a lot.

 

So I finally got my handson thismcine,and i havetosay thatwhat everyone saidaboutitistrue.i'mnot backspacingforthisentire post just to show you how bad the eyboard really is.

Ithink i'mgoing to have toreturnit tomythlogic, the spacebar doesn't work unless you punchthe damn thing. ater contactingthem and being told that the keyboard works fine, I feel really really rippedoff. Thiscomputer cost me $1700, and now I have to send it back. I'd be lying if I said I wasn't completely disappointed, and as muc as I want to like Mythlogic I wish they would have told me about the keyboardinstead of telling me that it works fine -- because that's totally farce. Literally the entire left and right 20% of the spacebar are entirely dead, as well as a few random keys around the keyboard.

Edit: Now that Ubuntu is completely installed (not running from a LiveDisk) I can attest to how fast everything really is with this computer, but the keys are still awful to type on. Literally the worst computer I've ever owned, DO NOT BUY.

 

If this was a big fancy slate (or tablet as people say these days) without a built-in keyboard...

 

Brutal! Is it possible the keyboard is an issue with Ubuntu....drivers or something? So you don't have windows on it?
Also do you know if you were part of first shipment? Or a second shipment? Thought I read somewhere there was a delay with a shipment due to quality issue being resolved? Maybe keyboard?

 

Honestly, I couldn't tell you. I know that all of Mythlogic's W740SUs were delayed, while System76 received the initial units shipped by Clevo. I was under the assumption that maybe Clevo was going to fix the keyboard issue in the second batch, and I even contacted support about this exact issue -- I was told by support that they tested multiple units and none of them were deemed to have keyboard issues. I was considering canceling my order because I'm a programmer and a full-time computer science student, so a good keyboard is important to me, but because of the good experience I had with Mythlogic support over the weeks prior to my laptop shipping I decided to trust them.

The laptop itself is a beast. It's amazingly fast, the screen is gorgeous, the clickpad isn't as bad or loud as I've heard on here, and the speakers produce pretty passable (but loud) sound. Everything about this laptop is perfect EXCEPT for the keyboard. I thought that maybe the people complaining were just used to the obviously superior Mac hardware, but honestly I am coming from a life of using budget computers and this is easily the worst keyboard experience I've ever had -- and I used an EeePC for three years, mind you.

I just hope Mythlogic does something to fix the situation, because right now I just feel kind of cheated. My W740SU is unusable without an external keyboard, and for the $1,700+ dollars I spent that's not okay.

 

Wow! A double whammy -- first from Clevo, then from Mythlogic in falsely assuring everything is peachy keen with keyboard. I'm so not looking forward to my machine. We should start maintaining a return counter -- so far 3 of the 5 known customers have returned or intend to return it. Let's see how it goes for me.

Wondering if some after market keyboard can be used as replacement. If it's backlit, the better. I'm sure the warranty would be royally voided by then. Sigh...

-TC

 

By the way, don't get me wrong; I'm not here to talk bad about Mythlogic. Actually, they've been awesome in working with me to resolve this issue! Hopefully they can fix it, because besides the keyboard this is the perfect laptop.

And I apologize if I did seem like I was trying to talk bad about them, honestly I was just more upset than anything after waiting a month and a half to get my hands on a W740SU.

 

Such a drag. This was looking almost perfect spec wise for me. Size is just right, with 13" being too small and 15.6 being too big. IPS screen, check, very fast processor/ram, check, thin, check, ssd, check.....horrible unusable keyboard...check. We can put robots on Mars, but a freaking keyboard can't work half properly??? . Really hope this is fixable somehow.

 

Surprise.....another review with what sounds like another POS keyboard...

Galago UltraPro Review

 

I probably missed it in the entire thread, but what's battery life looking for this baby?

 

Considering all the negative press on here about this thing, I went looking elsewhere and concluded the Thinkpad T440 "should" be a viable alternative whenever it comes out. Dunno if it will have Iris pro, though, but Llenovo usually has better build construction and keyboard quality, and the T440 will have the same caliber display this thing does. Some of the business features (dock station, vga out) I never see myself using, though.

Are there any other 14 - 15" APU class notebooks like this, with lots of good external connectivity, but with a better chassis and keyboard, that can be bought as barebones to put Linux on (particularly Arch) with good / foss driver support? Probably not, but one can dream.

 

The T440 would come with a much weaker CPU/iGPU. Anything APU would be even worse on the CPU side.

 

Intel parts are also APUs - they are on-die cpu and gpu in one. Iris Pro is new, if Llenovo was going to put it in anything I imagine it would be the 440, otherwise a 4700mq would be good enough for my needs at least, even though an Iris Pro build sounds nice. Its predecessor, the 431s, has a lower end i7 option.

 

Duplicate post. Sorry.

 

Sorry that I thought "APU" means AMD. While Intel mobile CPUs are technically APUs they usually not referred to as such. If Intel chips are put under the APU name, this opens up a lot of options.

For people who don't care about the NV OpenGL driver, the i7 4X50HQ chip is almost as fast as last gen's flagship, the W530 with a i7 Quad and a QK2000M. I don't think Lenovo is going to play it this way. If they do, what dGPU will they put into the W540? NV's next Quadro line refresh is still far away. (The new FirePro line isn't within sight either, even if Lenovo does include FirePro options.) Will they switch to a dGPU with higher TDP?

 

I do want to chime in here and say that Mythlogic offered to help me with my keyboard. The biggest problem is that the spacebar has large deadzones at each end, and the other keys need to be hit in the center otherwise they won't work. But honestly after a couple of days of typing on this keyboard I'm feeling a little better about it. Not perfect, but better.

Hopefully Mythlogic can improve the keyboard experience for me, because otherwise this computer is perfect. Amazing performance, awesome screen, nice and loud speakers, the clickpad is a lot better than everyone else is saying (I'm comparing it to a Samsung Series 3 Chromebook, not a Macbook). It's literally just the keyboard that's holding this computer back from being perfect. Windows runs smooth (except that I can't get the Killer 1202 BT to work), Linux runs well (clickpad issues aside) and boot times are amazing (could be contributed to the fact that I upgraded to a Crucial m500 at the last minute). Games run awesome (Dark Souls, Street Fighter 4, Skullgirls all stay at a solid max FPS).

I haven't actually tested the battery life yet, and I probably won't really get to test it until I get my unit back from Mythlogic -- there's no reason to bring this laptop to class with me if I have to bang on the keyboard for it to work.

But for just shy of $1,800 I'd at least expect to be able to type without having to backspace every few words. If Mythlogic can't fix the issue then I think I'm just going to opt for the Macbook Air with Haswell and Intel 5000 graphics. But from what I understanding installing Linux on a Macbook these days is a trial in frustration, so I'm kind of hoping to not have to go that route.

If Mythlogic can fix this then I'm gonna be sending them a 12 pack as thanks.

 

That's good.

May I know what that thing is?

Does it see any BT devices at all, or simply refuse to do anything? I've seen similar reports about that card with no solutions.

If you find any function missing under Linux, enable it in the driver. The Linux driver supports any HID-based functions available under Windows. The default settings are somehow different.

I have never used a virtual-button-only Synaptics trackpad under Linux. Does it even do tap click out of the box?

 

12 pack of beer

Wait, with no solutions? So you're saying I should have opted for the Killer 1103 which doesn't have BT?

May I ask what you mean by this?

Edit: And it does push to click, I don't know about tap though. I'd imagine that when you're using a clickpad you want tap to click disabled.

 

It should work (otherwise they won't see the device), but there's some bug involved. I'm not sure if the 1103 is any different.

What touchpad function is missing under your Linux install? You should be able to enable it in your X configuration on the touchpad device, which takes effect via the Synaptics driver. "xinput --list-props [name of the device]" will give you something like this:

Code:

Device 'SynPS/2 Synaptics TouchPad':
	Device Enabled (146):	1
	Coordinate Transformation Matrix (148):	1.000000, 0.000000, 0.000000, 0.000000, 1.000000, 0.000000, 0.000000, 0.000000, 1.000000
	Device Accel Profile (273):	2
	Device Accel Constant Deceleration (274):	8.000000
	Device Accel Adaptive Deceleration (275):	1.000000
	Device Accel Velocity Scaling (276):	10.000000
	Synaptics Edges (296):	1752, 5192, 1620, 4236
	Synaptics Finger (297):	25, 30, 256
	Synaptics Tap Time (298):	167
	Synaptics Tap Move (299):	221
	Synaptics Tap Durations (300):	167, 200, 100
	Synaptics ClickPad (301):	0
	Synaptics Tap FastTap (302):	0
	Synaptics Middle Button Timeout (303):	200
	Synaptics Two-Finger Pressure (304):	282
	Synaptics Two-Finger Width (305):	7
	Synaptics Scrolling Distance (306):	250, 250
	Synaptics Edge Scrolling (307):	0, 0, 0
	Synaptics Two-Finger Scrolling (308):	1, 1
	Synaptics Move Speed (309):	0.200000, 0.200000, 1.000000, 1.000000
	Synaptics Edge Motion Pressure (310):	30, 160
	Synaptics Edge Motion Speed (311):	1, 401
	Synaptics Edge Motion Always (312):	0
	Synaptics Off (313):	2
	Synaptics Locked Drags (314):	0
	Synaptics Locked Drags Timeout (315):	240
	Synaptics Tap Action (316):	1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 3, 2
	Synaptics Click Action (317):	1, 3, 2
	Synaptics Circular Scrolling (318):	0
	Synaptics Circular Scrolling Distance (319):	0.100000
	Synaptics Circular Scrolling Trigger (320):	0
	Synaptics Circular Pad (321):	0
	Synaptics Palm Detection (322):	0
	Synaptics Palm Dimensions (323):	10, 200
	Synaptics Coasting Speed (324):	20.000000, 50.000000
	Synaptics Pressure Motion (325):	30, 160
	Synaptics Pressure Motion Factor (326):	1.000000, 1.000000
	Synaptics Grab Event Device (327):	1
	Synaptics Gestures (328):	1
	Synaptics Capabilities (329):	1, 0, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1
	Synaptics Pad Resolution (330):	125, 93
	Synaptics Area (331):	0, 0, 0, 0
	Synaptics Noise Cancellation (332):	25, 25
	Device Product ID (263):	2, 7
	Device Node (264):	"/dev/input/event9"

The touchpad's behavior can be fine-tuned. The manual gives all the details.

By HID-based I mean the Win8-exlusive gestures won't be available under Linux as your GUI doesn't understand those events. Anything else, which follows the Human Interface Device open standard, should work just fine.

 

Oh, OK. Clicking worked fine (as it should on a clickpad), two finger scrolling didn't work, but edge scrolling worked out of the box on Ubuntu. I don't remember if tap to click was enabled by default, and I do remember having trouble with right clicking (two finger click was right click but the gesture was really finicky -- it was easier to just hit the bottom right of the clickpad where the right click usually is)

 

Hi guys, can someone give a bit of an advice ?

I already have a gaming rig x58 based with 24 GB ram and 670 in sli

Am planning to get a development laptop, but this sickness of always having top notch is telling me to go with lenovo y510p, its even cheaper than galago ultrapro from system76, what do you guys think ?

 

The performance is amazing, but I'm not much of a gamer. As a development laptop I'm not sure if I'd jump on it, considering how awful the keyboard is.

 

By the way, for anyone wondering about battery life: I got a solid 3:44 on Battery Eater's reader's test (opens a file in notepad then scrolls every so often) while browsing the web, wifi on and backlight at 20% (because 10% is just too low in my opinion). So it looks like you could squeeze out four hours, making this (theoretically) the perfect compromise between power, battery life and quality for college students.

 

Since you are going to be using the keyboard a lot, you would have to try hard to do worse than the Galago. I've never had a Lenovo Y, just T ... but the keyboards have been generally solid.

 

How do you feel about the case? Is it metal? Does it all fit together, is it cheap feeling?

 

Actually, I love it. It's definitely not the fantastic aluminum that Macbooks use, but I personally like it. It's matte and feels very slick like a plastic, and it's comfortable on my wrists. The back of the monitor is some sort of brushed aluminum look-alike (or maybe it's brushed aluminum, I'm not really an expert on laptops honestly) but the whole portion with the screen definitely feels nice. My only issue is the bit of wobble that the hinge tends to introduce -- I wouldn't hold this laptop by the screen.

 

W740SU laptop hinge - YouTube

Video of the hinge

 

Thanks for the feedback. That just makes the whole keyboard issue all the more maddening. It's blazing fast, great screen, looks and feels good......I mean what more could you want in a laptop...........oh yeah,.... to be able to type!
Sure hope it gets resolved.
One more question, is it really 20.9mm thin? I really love that about having so much power in a non fat laptop, but I wondered how accurate that thinness was. Also are you having to pay shipping back to Mythlogic?
I really want to pull the trigger, but it seems that every owner so far is returning, doesn't seem like it could just be a random issue, seems more like bad design period......hope not.

 

From what I can tell System76 is kind of shafting their users on this one. They expect them to install a 'fixed' keyboard on their own, and as far as I'm aware the only fix is for the slight flexing of the housing -- not the actual keyboard itself.

And no, my 2-way shipping is totally covered by Mythlogic; but I do have a 3 year warranty that includes 3 year 2-way shipping (total was like $150? Why wouldn't I get that?)

 

Beside the keyboard issue, the (partly) metal shell also seems to cause problems. The surface would be cooler under pressure if Clevo went with good old pure plastic.