Problems? See this thread at archive.org.
Why doesn't dell and alienware implement a laptop that uses a desktop cpu (I know it would use another montherboard) ? I checked the specs on a sager 9262 and the system is a little smaller and thinner than the dell xps 1730. The sager weights about 12 lbs with the power cord and the dell is 10.6 lbs without its power cord
So why doesn't dell or alienware make a PC thats as fast as the sager with a desktop cpu? I doubt the m17x is gonna be as fast as the sager 9262 but AW is still claiming it the worlds fastest notebook (it didn't say most powerful MOBILE notebook"
why???
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they can only claim to sell the fastest notebook... using mobile CPUs.
thats about it.
The D901C is the undisputed king of notebooks... no one that know about notebooks would argue this fact.
Wish I had one.
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It can house two MXM-IV videocard modules.
It runs the dual cards in SLI... mainly the 7950GTX and 8700M GT are working at the moment.
So it has mainly been selling with a single 8800M GTX is that having two cards in it will not enable the SLI mode...
Nvidia is working on the 8800M GTX SLI drivers to fully enable and utilize both mobile cards.
Sager has already announced this a while back... they will sell the user upgrade 8800M GTX kit for those that want the second card when the drivers/config are ready.
So the other 8800M SLI notebooks (M17x and M1730) have to wait for the same thing.
In any case, when Nvidia releases the correct drivers... the Clevo D901C will be even more powerful than it already is.
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What! No pink and purple unicorns with magical lima-bean necklaces!! Boy am I going to be in trouble with my daughter when I get home tonight.
Hmmm..., do you think it's possible that they might have kidney-bean necklaces instead? She doesn't like veggies, so I doubt if she knows the difference between a lima-bean and a kidney-bean.
:wink:
Oh, yeah, BTW, in perusing Dell(tm)'s XPS(tm) systems, I think I've discovered the naming algorithm Dell(tm) used: e XPensive Systems(tm).
Last edited by a moderator: May 8, 2015 -
True, true, but now you're comparing apples and oranges. Apples=3 HDDs, plus 1 CD/DVD, Oranges is a member of the set {(3 HDDs),(2 HDDs, plus 1 CD/DVD)}.
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It is fast, no one is arguing that. It's the fastest actually, but it's very thick, not portable, ugly and the quality of the used materials isn't very convincing (they could suffer big improvements, not saying they are bad).
If they could manage to get it under 2" thick, put it on a diet (like -2lbs) and give it a similar look to the M57xRU-U it would be much more popular.
PS: I would buy one the way it is now, as I could do with the power it has. I just can't afford it (due to the VAT, which adds 19% of the buying price, otherwise I would really consider one).
If you really give it some thought the Alienware will not be that expensive for what it has to offer (at the size, looks and weight it has), compared to others (the M1730 is a failed notebook in my opinion, in terms of dimensions and looks).
A D90xC is like the most fun you can have with the smartest and ugliest girl. -
Its purdy if you see it in person... it exudes a professional look and power.
I have been wanting one since I laid my hands on the initial revision.... but I can't afford it... or really need it over my D900K. -
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I am buying a laptop soon and I was distinguishing my available options. I have $7000 to spend at my will, but I prefer not to hurl it away. I want to spend it wisely and perhaps save it. But don't lecture me on saving it, the U.S. dollar is losing its value anyway.
I was going to buy a sager 9262 which was basically an intel quad core at like 2.4 ghz with 8800gtx sli. It had a WUXGA 17" screen too. Oh and it had 3 hard drives, with raid 0,5,1. My configuration was with 3, 160 GB, 7200 SATA II hard drives. 480gigs... anyways. All of these components added up to around $4000. So, Idecided that i'm not that much of a hardcore gamer. to buy one. Though I still feel That I will...
Anyways, here are other ideas that I have had to satisfy my laptop needs. Basically gaming, mass media ( 250 vids, 2500 mp3's, 15 pics), and versatile online capabilities. I want this thing to have nice intel-wireless n card.
So here are my options:
The sager 9262
The dell vostro 1500
the sager NP5793
Vostro 1500 Intel® Core 2 Duo T7500 (2.2GHz, 4MB L2 Cache, 800MHz FSB)
Operating System Genuine Windows Vista® Home Premium
LCD Panel 15.4 in Wide Screen SXGA+LCD Display w/TrueLife
Memory 3GB Shared Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 667MHz, 2 DIMM
Video Cards 256MB NVIDIA® GeForce 8600M GT
Hard Drive 160GB Free Fall Sensor Hard Drive, 7200RPM, for Dell Vostro 1500 Notebook
Integrated NIC and Modem Integrated 10/100 Network Card and Modem
Adobe Software Adobe® Acrobat® Reader
Optical Drive 8X CD/DVD+RW Read and Burn CD and DVD
Sound Card High Definition Audio 2.0
Wireless Cards Dell Wireless 1505 Wireless-N Mini-card
Camera Integrated 2.0 mega pixel Web Camera
Bundle No Pre-installed Productivity Software
MediaDirect Dell Exclusive MediaDirect Instant Play Software Application
1st Software Norton Internet Security 2007, 36-months
Primary Battery 85 WHr 9-cell Lithium Ion Primary Battery
Limited Warranty, Services and Support 1 Year Basic Limited Warranty plus 1 Year Mail-in Service
Installation Services No Onsite System Setup
Dell DataSafe Online Data Backup 10GB for 1 Year Online Data Backup by Dell DataSafe
Automated PC Tuneup 1 Year Dell Automated PC Tuneup
Network Assistant Dell Network Assistant
Bluetooth Wireless Dell Wireless 355 Bluetooth Internal (2.0 + Enhanced Data Rate), Vista
Purchase Intent Purchase is not intended for resale.
Processor Branding Intel Core 2 Duo Processor
Labels Windows Vista Premium
$70 carrying case + componenets
Sub-total $1,475.60
laptop = $1400
or...
Sager NP5793 Custom Laptop (Built on Clevo M570RU-U / M571RU-U)
- 17" WUXGA "Glare Type" Super Clear Ultra Bright Glossy Screen (1920x1200)
- Arctic Silver 5 Thermal Compound
- Standard Dead Pixel Policy
- ~Intel® 45nm "Penryn" Core2 Duo T9300 2.5GHz w/6MB L2 On-die cache - 800MHz FSB
- 512MB PCI-Express nVidia GeForce 8800GTX DX10 (User Upgradeable)
- None Standard
- ~ 4,096MB DDR2 667 PC2 5300 (2 SODIMMS) Dual Channel Memory (Requires Vista 64-Bit to recognize Full 4GB)
- 1GB Intel® Robson Turbo Memory (Vista Only)
- NP5792/5793 Orange Frame Trim Color
- ~Combo 8x8x6x4x Dual Layer DVD +/-R/RW 5x DVD-RAM 24x CD-R/RW Drive w/Softwares
- ~ 160GB 7200RPM (Serial-ATA II 300 - 8MB Cache)
- None Standard
- None Standard
- Internal 7-in-1 Card Reader (MS/MS Pro/MS Duo/MS Pro Duo/SD/Mini-SD/MMC/RS)
- Internal Bluetooth 2.0+ EDR
- Built-in Intel® PRO/Wireless 4965 802.11 a/g/n
- None Standard
- Built in 2.0 Megapixel Camera
- None Standard
- Sound Blaster Compatible 3D Audio - Included
- Integrated System Speakers - Included
- Basic Black Business Case - Included
- Smart Li-ion Battery (8-Cell)
- 110/220V 120W Auto Switching AC Adapter - Included
- None Standard
- None Standard
- Integrated Fingerprint Reader
- None Standard
- None Standard
- ~Windows Vista Home Premium 64-Bit Installed (64&32-Bit CD Included) w/ Drivers & Utilities CD's
- None Standard
- None Standard
- 3 Year Labor* 1 Year Parts Warranty Lifetime 24/7 DOMESTIC Toll Free Tech Support
(Extra 2 Year Labor Warranty through Xotic PC)
Sub-Total: $2,669.00
SAGER NP9262 Ultimate Custom Laptop (Built on Clevo D900C / D901C) SAGER NP9262 Ultimate Custom Laptop (Built on Clevo D900C / D901C)
- 17" WUXGA "Glare Type" Super Clear Ultra Bright Glossy Screen (1920x1200)
- Arctic Silver 5 Thermal Compound
- Standard Dead Pixel Policy
- ~Intel Core 2 QUAD Q6600 2.4GHz w/ 8MB L2 Cache - 1066MHz FSB
- SLI ENABLED DUAL (2) 512MB PCI-Express nVidia GeForce 8800GTX (1024MB Total) w/GDDR3 DX10 Video Cards (User Upgradeable)- ETA End of February
- None Standard
- ~ 4,096MB DDR2 800 (2 SODIMMS) Dual Channel Memory (Requires Vista 64-Bit to recognize Full 4GB)
- Standard Finish
- ~Combo 8x8x6x4x Dual Layer DVD +/-R/RW 5x DVD-RAM 24x CD-R/RW Drive w/Softwares
- ~ 160GB 7200RPM (Serial-ATA II 300 - 8MB Cache)
- ~ 160GB 7200RPM (Serial-ATA II 300 - 8MB Cache)
- ~ 160GB 7200RPM (Serial-ATA II 300 - 8MB Cache)
- Raid 5-Stripe
- None Standard
- None Standard
- Internal 7-in-1 Card Reader (MS/MS Pro/MS Duo/MS Pro Duo/SD/Mini-SD/MMC/RS)
- Internal Bluetooth 2.0+ EDR
- Built-in Intel® PRO/Wireless 4965 802.11 a/g/n
- None Standard
- Built in 2.0 Megapixel Camera
- None Standard
- Sound Blaster Compatible 3D Audio - Included
- Integrated System Speakers - Included
- Basic Black Business Case - Included
- Smart Li-ion Battery (12 Cell)
- 110/220V 120W Auto Switching AC Adapter - Included
- None Standard
- None Standard
- None Standard
- None Standard
- ~Windows Vista Home Premium 64-Bit Installed (64&32-Bit CD Included) w/ Drivers & Utilities CD's
- None Standard
- None Standard
- 3 Year Labor* 1 Year Parts Warranty Lifetime 24/7 DOMESTIC Toll Free Tech Support
(Extra 2 Year Labor Warranty through Xotic PC)
Sub-Total: $4,114.01
3% off if paid in cash, not credit. =
I want a good gaming system. One that will last a while. The price difference is nearly $1200 between the 5790 and dell. It's $2600 between the dell and sager 9262. I argue with my self that i could buy a vostro1500 and sager NP5790 at the price of a sager 9262. So are the prices reasonable between all these laptops? Are they all equivalent in their price proportions? Which one will be the best deal for now and in the future. Should I buy the cheaper one and be satisfied with its low cost. Or should I buy the sager because of its better graphic and display components? Also, the sager can be upgraded in the future i think when the 8800's become outdated.
Oh and the Dell1730 is coming out now with sli 8800 Gtx dualcards too. I was wondering if anyone could tell the difference between the sager 9262 and the new dell 1730
Intel® Core 2 Duo Processor T7700 (2.4GHz/800Mhz FSB, 4MB Cache)
Genuine Windows Vista® Home Premium Edition - English
LCD PANEL AND WEBCAM
17 inch UltraSharp TrueLife Wide-screen WUXGA
MEMORY 4GB Shared Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 667MHz
HARD DRIVE Speed: 200GB SATA Hard Drive (7200RPM) Free Fall Sensor
OPTICAL DRIVE CD / DVD Burner (DVD+/-RW Drive)
VIDEO CARD NVIDIA® SLI Dual GeForce® 8800M GTX with 1GB GDDR3 Memory WI-FI WIRELESS CARD Dell Wireless 1505 802.11a/g Mini Card (54Mbps)
BLUETOOTH WIRELESS Built-in Bluetooth capability (2.0 EDR) SOUND OPTION Integrated Sound Blaster Audigy HD Software Edition
and
Physics Game Accelerator: AGEIA PhysX 100M Processor
Labels: Windows Vista Premium
GAMING LCD: Logitech® GamePanel Display
Processor Branding: Intel® Core 2 Duo Label
DIAL-UP INTERNET ACCESS No ISP requested
AP Adobe® Reader 8.1.1 - English
Subtotal $4,039
SO i'm like confused because this dell 1730 feelz like and incredible deal. There's so much power and it's not like $6000+. WTF?!#@@ -
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Bull...
Anytime now with nVidia's new driver release, that $250 AGEIA PhysX card will be nothing but a software update for current geforce 8 series owners.
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Offtopic: Feels good to be on Sager's side
Yay Sager NP9262!
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Ooops! Don't look at the man behind the curtain!
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Take note, the D901C is not only the fastest but also the cheapest of the 8800M GTX SLI laptops
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Ok, I dub thee sir "Mr Impatient" (unfortunately, you'll have to talk to the moderators about changing your username since this is only a non-binding civil ceremony).:wink:
As far as the antipathy toward D'h'ell (see, ain't antipathy fun ), probably a combination of some folks who got a raw deal from Dell, and decided they weren't going to take it any more, some folk who got tired of Dell's fetishistic proprietariness (like MS and Sony and ...) - for example, Dell has (at least in the past) used proprietary power supplies the only apparent purpose of which was to coerce owners into buying a Dell replacement instead of a third-party replacement - and some who've probably gotten tired of hearing about all the great computers Dell is "making" when, in reality, Dell makes very little of the overall computer - basically, they buy 80% to 90% of the computer from companies like Clevo, pop in hdds and processors, slap a "Dell" label on it, and call it a Dell, and take all of the credit instead of giving credit where credit is due.
Basically, that last is a little bit like if I bought a Crown Vic from Ford that was minus its final coat of paint, its badging, and its fuel-injection module, supplied those parts myself, slapped a "Shyster1 Motors" decal on it, and called it the "Shyster1 Ambulance Chaser LX" - No one would for a minute believe that it was anything else than a Ford Crown Vic, and they would buy, or not, depending on their views of Ford, not their views of Shyster1 Motors.
More realistically, it's like in the 60's-80's when Chrysler/Dodge/Plymouth used to buy large numbers of Mitsubishis, rebadge them as "Colts" and sell them as if they were legitimate Dodges, not ersatz Dodges. Didn't fool anyone, and Chrysler/Dodge/Plymouth suffered for their reliance on so-called captive imports.
Finally, there's probably a bit of the tall-poppy syndrome going on, as the Aussies call it (and maybe others too, for all I know) - Dell's a big fat corporation that's made its fortune partly on the backs of brands like Clevo, and Clevo is the unknown underdog who deserves a lot more of the credit than it actually gets.
Me, I'm mostly tired of fetishistic proprietariness (Sony is acres worse than Dell ).
EDIT: Also, there's plenty of unjustified haughtiness coming from the Dell fans, too, for example this post. -
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Unfortunately, the menu is rather slim pickin's.
In terms of proprietariness, I am actually thinking more in terms of Dell desktops, which used to (and as far as I know, still do) come with a PSU that is cross-wired so that it cannot be replaced with a non-Dell PSU unless you know what you're doing and can rewire the third-party PSU. There is no excuse for that sort of proprietariness other than coercing the owner into buying only Dell parts. It's as if you bought a Ford that you could only refuel at, say, Exxon, Hess, and Texaco gas-stations - if you filled up at any other station, your engine would blow up (unless you knew how to modify the gas from other stations in order to avoid engine blow-up).
I have yet to see that sort of rank abuse-of-customers out of Clevo.
Unfortunately, with respect to notebooks, however, the PSU issue is not the best of examples, because, as you point out, almost every mfr has their own AC adapter style - although you can find universal adapters that work with a variety of different notebooks, so it's not a case of 1-to-1 proprietariness.
One more pertinent example comes up with the issues a number of people have had with HP's attitude toward wireless modules - I'm sure you know that HP writes a whitelist of permitted wireless modules into the BIOS that goes into every HP system, and the computer will not start up if a non-approved wireless module has been installed. I don't at this point in time have a similar example to hand regarding Dell (mainly because I haven't gone and researched it) but I simply cannot dismiss the possibility that they would do something similar.
As far as I know, the risks of Clevo doing this are substantially less.
A better example might be the fact that, with Dell (and the other brand names) you have no choice but to pay for an operating system that you may not want (e.g., Vista), and if you go ahead and use the pre-installed OS, you get an OS that has been tweaked not only by MS, but also by Dell to serve Dell's own purposes. On top of which, you get a system that is mandatorily larded up with bloatware - I don't know how good you are at scraping out the registry and the file system, but some of that bloatware gets wedged pretty deep into the nooks and crannies of the registry. I just had to do a factory reinstall of the WinXP OEM that came with my vaio, and I'm still weeding out the last little AOL creepers that were implanted everywhere, even though, technically, none of the AOL garbage had even been installed (just "provided for my convenience").
To my knowledge, Clevo doesn't infest its systems with bloatware.
Which leads to a (to my mind most reasonable) extrapolation - no doubt you recall the hoo-haa a few months ago about Sony's latest attempt to monitor digital rights by surreptitiously installing (another) rootkit on certain systems. What makes you think these things only get installed after purchase, when the owner tries to download something that a company like Sony doesn't like? Tucking in a carefully concealed rootkit at pre-installation time would be much[/] more effective, because it could be tailored to the exact system and OS. Think you can guarantee that Dell hasn't put a rootkit on your system? I cannot dismiss the possibility that Dell would do so.
To my knowledge, Clevo does not exhibit the same sorts of tendencies that would lead me to believe that they were equally capable (or inclined) to do something like that.
With respect to MXM, the fault there lies primarily with NVidia, not with Clevo. NVidia developed and promulgated MXM, but never put any teeth into it until suddenly this year, with the 8800M, when NVidia made the snap decision to manufacture most of the module in-house, leaving very little for the actual GPU vendors to customize, and refused to provide support for non-EDID displays.
Clevo bears a reasonable portion of the blame for the 8800M upgrade fiasco itself, because under the literal terms of the MXM standard, in order to put MXM-compliant GPUs into a notebook in SLi the display had to be capable of providing its own EDID data (or, at least, the GPUs had to think that the display was providing its own EDID data). It would have been preferable if Clevo had actually gone to EDID-compliant displays instead of continuing to use the industry-standard non-EDID displays, but why should they have? MXM was not, in fact, a standard, because NVidia had not heretofore imposed any real consequences on any vendor for failing to fully comply with MXM, and the industry standard wasn't about to change imminently, so they really had no grounds on which to think that their notebooks would not continue to be acceptable even if they didn't meet the precise letter of the complete MXM standard - not until NVidia made it's last-minute decision to manufacture in-house and not support non-EDID displays.
It is my belief that the mobo upgrade that was necessitated for the Clevos most likely involved putting some sort of ROM chip onto the mobo in the direct line of communication between the GPU and the display, with the ROM designed to filter the GPU's requests for EDID data and respond to those requests as if it were the display unit.
Now, as to why the Dell systems don't need a similar upgrade? I don't know, but I certainly have my suspicions. One possibility is that Dell, because it has been at the forefront of pushing the new DisplayPort standard for notebook displays, already had its house in order and was either using a display that was EDID-compliant, or else had already implemented the ersatz EDID compliance that I suspect Clevo had to do at the last moment. On the other hand, since I am a jaundiced cynic, and since it took Dell a lot longer to actually begin delivering 8800M systems and much, much longer to finally come out with a statement regarding whether their systems would need a mobo upgrade, it is my firm suspicion that that what Dell did was to throw its market weight around, and brow-beat NVidia into giving Dell a sweetheart deal that no-one else, such as Clevo, got, which would enable them to use the 8800s on their already-released systems without needing a mobo upgrade.
Now, that's nice of them to do, if you own an affected Dell already, but it's also precisely the sort of bullying that a lot of people who have given up on the brand-names dislike - you cannot complete on actual equipment specs, so you use your financial weight to bash down your competition.
And no, I don't have any proof or evidence (other than the very, very circumstantial evidence I just mentioned) that suggests that this is what Dell did; however, I cannot dismiss the possibility that they did.
As far as I know, Clevo does not engage in this sort of bullying behaviour.
Also, I think another point that hasn't been sufficiently grasped is that, even though Clevo owners had to pay for a mobo upgrade and Dell owners did not (other than paying for the new card itself), if the initial purchase price of a Dell is sufficiently higher than the initial purchase price of a Clevo, it may still be better to have gone with a Clevo that needed an upgrade than with a Dell that did not.
The key lies in the concept of the time value of money, and determining the net present value of future expenditures (or savings) taking into account both economic and risk-oriented discount factors.
For example, suppose that we have two systems, a Dell and a Clevo, with the following attributes when purchased.
1) Dell - costs $2,500, and has a 90% chance of being able to accept upgrade X at a cost of $200, but without any other upgrades or changes; there is, however, a 5% chance that a mobo upgrade will be required, for which Dell will charge $500, and a 5% chance that upgrade X will not be available.
2) Clevo - costs $2,000, and has a 10% chance of being able to accept upgrade X at a cost of $200, but without any other upgrades or changes; there is, however, a 85% chance that a mobo upgrade costing $500 will be required, and a 5% chance that upgrade X will not be available at all.
Other than these attributes, the Dell and the Clevo are otherwise identical (except that the Dell has a couple of geeky/cool (take your pick) LEDs glued onto the top of the case) because the Dell is built using the Clevo as its base model (not too far from reality).
Additionally, assume the following: (i) the discount rate is 5% (typically the current interest rate yield on long-term treasuries is used, because this represents the most riskless type of investment that can be used as an alternative benchmark), and (ii) upgrade X, if it actually materializes, will be available 1 year after the Dell and the Clevo are sold.
Assuming, first, that upgrade X is actually available on both the Clevo and the Dell in a years' time, the Clevo will still, in net present value terms, be the less expensive system, even though more likely than not the Clevo owners will have to pay $200 + $500 = $700 for the upgrade.
The computation is as follows:
1) For the Dell - the risk-weighted cost of upgrade X is (90% * $200) + (5% * $700) = $215, which, discounted for 1 year at 5%, has a net present value of about $205.
Thus, since a Dell owner has already paid $2,500 for the Dell (which was paid in todays' dollars, so it doesn't get discounted) the total cost of getting a Dell with upgrade X is $2,500 + $205 = $2,705.
2) For the Clevo - the risk-weighted cost of upgrade X is (10% * $200) + (85% * $700) = $615, which, discounted for 1 year at 5%, nas a net present value of about $586.
Thus, since a Clevo owner has already paid $2,000 for the Clevo in todays' dollars, the total cost of getting a Clevo with upgrade X is $2,000 + $586 = $2,586.
As you can see, the Clevo is still the better deal because it costs $119 less than the Dell for otherwise indistinguishable hardware (and, I might add, most likely better customer support - that I do know about because I've had the ... shall we call it pleasure (in a masochistic sense) ... of dealing with Dell's sorry excuse for customer service). This cost savings results even though there is almost a certainty that the Clevo owners will have to pay additional money ($700 total) for upgrade X.
However, there is another factor that needs to be taken into account, the 5% risk that neither the Dell nor the Clevo will be able to get upgrade X at all. In that case, the additional $500 the Dell owners paid upfront for their systems is simply wasted money - they will never get any additional value-added for that extra lay-out. I haven't spent the time to figure out how that risk should be weighted and factored into the prices I've been calculating above; however, I don't think that's really necessary, as most people can easily grasp the concept of wasted money.
So, as I said above, the menu's looking sort of skimpy from where I sit.
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wow dude, thats a huge response.
As for me, Crtl+V
http://forum.notebookreview.com/showpost.php?p=3026221&postcount=39
Clevo d901c/sager 9262 fastest, why is dell and AW claiming to be faster?
Discussion in 'Sager and Clevo' started by firstn20, Feb 19, 2008.
