Considering P750DM / NP9758, few questions...

Hi all

I'm wanting to get a laptop before Christmas, and have been doing some research for while. As the title says, one laptop I'm considering is the Clevo P750DM / Sager NP9758. I really like its upgradeability, among other things, but have a few questions.

I've learned that (at least) the G-Sync models don't support NVidia Optimus or integrated graphics. Is this also true for the non-G-Sync models? (The ones that on RJTech are offered with Quadro cards instead of GeForce cards; also on those is it possible to put a GeForce card in later?)

If the iGPU is also not supported on the non-G versions, then is it possible to get a lower-tier or last-generation GPU, like the 850M, 930M or 800M, and save some $ for now?
Or, would it be better to go ahead and get the 965M or 970M (not going for the 980M) now? On that one site I mentioned earlier, they save $340 to drop the 970M from their barebones notebook, but they charge $460 for the non-G-Sync 970M with heatsink or $480 for the G-Sync version without heatsink. If pricing would be similar at other resellers, then I'd probably save considerable $ by getting the GPU now, considering I'd be planning to get a '65 or '70 later anyway. (Although I almost like the idea of waiting for the GTX 1070M or 1170M, or even the 1270M.)

I was considering the 4K screen, but have almost decided on the 1080p screen. If I did get the 4K screen, how well does it scale down to 1080p, and how is the battery life at 1080p, compared to at 4K, and compared to a native 1080p screen?

I know I mentioned RJTech already, but I'm also considering buying from other resellers, like PowerNotebooks, XoticPC, maybe others, but I can't decide who.

For now, I'd like to get a lower-end CPU, like the Pentium G4400 or Core i3-6100. (So far I've only seen RJTech offer it without the CPU, in which case I'd get the CPU from Newegg or Amazon.) I'd anticipate probably upgrading to a Kaby Lake (or, if it uses the same socket, Cannonlake) i7-K later.

Could I manually limit/underclock the CPU and GPU to lower power states when I want to save battery?

I do need plenty of storage, though, so I'll be putting a 2 TB Samsung Spinpoint M9T (I've also seen it as a Seagate some places) hard drive in, which I can get at Newegg for what I think is a good price. I'm planning to take the laptop with me on a camping trip over Christmas weekend, and I'll be recording some 4K video and offloading it from my SD cards onto the laptop. I anticipate recording around 1 TB of video, and would like some room to spare.
To save $ for now, I'll be skipping the SSD for now, and partitioning the main hard drive. I'll probably be getting 16 GB of RAM, as I doubt I could squeeze my use into 8 GB. (I have 32 GB on my desktop, with a 4790K, and I'm always using more than 16GB.)

Is it possible to get custom configurations, including that, from any of the other resellers?

Speaking of battery life which I briefly mentioned earlier, how much could I expect when running at a lower-power state, like a 1080p screen at medium brightness, CPU limited to 20 watts & GPU to 15 (when I'm willing to give up performance to save battery)?

Also could I run Linux on it, instead of Windows, thereby saving another $140 (Windows 10 Pro)?

Also, users, what are your experiences with typing on the P750DM, as far as the touchpad not getting in the way? On my dad's 7-year-old Dell D830, when we try to type on it, the touchpad will activate cause our hands are resting on it, causing the cursor to go haywire, even if we had disabled it in software. (I've been tempted to have him open it up and physically disconnect the touchpad, cause they never use it anyway, they use a discrete external mouse.)
And if that Dell D830 (a 15.6" laptop) will fit in a particular backpack (I've tried it and it fits in mine), would the P750DM also fit? (The backpack specs say a 15.6" laptop should fit in the sleeve, but a 17" or 18" would be too large.) Or, what would be ideas for a decent laptop case to get and where?

I've also considered the Asus G752 or the MSI GT72, but I'm leaning toward the Clevo/Sager laptop. (I do wish it had a built-in optical drive, though, but I suppose 1 - I could use an external optical drive, and 2 - if I'd be using the optical bay as an extra hard drive caddy, it's just as easy, from pics & a video I've seen, to get into the P750DM to swap out the hard drive.)

So any recommendations on where I could get a custom configuration like that, besides RJTech & Newegg? (I'd rather use one of the resellers on the board for the laptop itself, but I do like Newegg for the parts I can get there.) I understand that for specific pricing I should discuss that in private with a prospective reseller, but when I was looking at some prices on the parts & barebones, it was coming to around $1500, with the P750DM, GTX970M, Pentium G4400, 16GB Kingston RAM, Lite-On external DVD writer, 2TB Samsung HDD, Intel 7260 WiFi, without Windows. That doesn't include sales tax, which I'd have to pay in CA anyway even if I bought out of state (use tax for out of state, sales tax for in state). Btw I'm near San Diego, CA. I see Pro-Star is in City of Industry, about a 1 hour 50 minute to 2 hour drive from El Cajon where I live - would they be a good option as well?

 

It is not exactly economical to upgrade a laptop with new gpus and such. Its awesome that it can, but I would not recommend getting a super high end laptop and then putting a pentium and a crappy gpu in it. The point is truly for enthusiasts. You should definitely get it as tricked out as you can. I have no idea why you want a non G-Sync card either as that's one of the best features of the laptop. The laptop is also not good for battery life, as that's not really what its meant for. I'm not sure how much of an impact a 4k screen would have, but it would downscale to 1080p flawlessly because 4k is merely 4 pixels for every 1 at 1080p. No complex algorithm needed or anything. If you are getting that laptop I would recommend a quad core i5 and a 970m. Getting a pentium seems like an enormous waste of that laptops potential to me. I'm also not sure it can even do that, as I know its not meant to have below a Skylake i5. (At least from online manufacturers that I've seen) Idk, it just sounds to me like you could buy a 800 dollar laptop now, and then like a 1000 dollar one in the future. Laptop gpus are crazy expensive to buy standalone. Lastly, what are you going to be doing that will use more than 8 gigs of ram, but only a pentium cpu? You could try all this, and I would hope it works, but it seems super weird to me, and there are a lot of issues you could run into. There is no guarantee that the cpu sockets and gpus will be the same in a few years, the socket could change or they could need different heatsinks. There are just a ton of variables to what your doing.

 

@Galm17, you help remind me of a few good points.

When I was thinking of putting the Pentium in it, there was another thing I wasn't considering. I was considering bang for the buck (and saving $ now with the intent to swap out the CPU later), only factoring in just the cost of the CPU. I failed to factor in the cost of the entire laptop in that. If I factor that in, I should probably expect a 2x-3x performance improvement with an i5 or i7 for maybe a 10% difference in cost or something like that. So maybe I should go for the i5 - probably the 6500. I'd also consider a "T" SKU, but pcpartpicker doesn't list them as being for sale at any stores now. (I think for now I'll just relegate the i7 for my desktop, which has a 4790K.)

Also, I think I'd consider a "super high end laptop" to be something like the Eurocom Panther 5SE. (I do wish current Skylake laptops had room for as many hard drives, and an optical bay, as that one, but I don't want to spend like $3k just on the chassis, plus another $2-3k on a 12-core Socket LGA2011 Xeon, $2-3k on a Quadro, etc.)

My only reason for getting a non-G-Sync model would have been in the hopes that I could use the iGPU on the non-G-Sync panel version. Also, at least at RJTech (the only place I've seen that offers true barebones versions of these models), they were only $30 difference in price, before you count the graphics card. (But only Quadros on the non-G-Sync version and GeForces on the G-Sync version.) But, as you say, getting the good card later is crazy expensive. But, is there a way to save $ down the road, since I'm looking at getting a 970M now, then want to maybe upgrade to an 1270M or 1370M later without getting a new laptop?

For me, I'd be perfectly happy with 2 hours of battery life at load, 2.5 or even 3 would be extra sweet. I do want to be able to run at lower power states though for when I'm willing to sacrifice performance for being able to be away from an outlet for longer. (I think my dad's Dell D830 is lucky to get 2 hours on its battery, and it is by no means a gaming laptop, having only a Core 2 Duo T7250 CPU and integrated graphics with a 1280x800 screen. I've even had trouble playing 720p video on it sometimes.) I think in @HTWingNut's review mentioned he got about 2 hours or a bit more with an i7-6700K and 980M, both higher-powered CPU and GPU than I'd be putting in mine, and a 4K screen, vs the 1080p that I'm thinking of getting.

If I could get an $800 laptop now that has a quad-core Skylake CPU, 965M or better graphics, 2 TB hard drive with physical room for a second one, optical drive, etc, that would be awesome, but so far I haven't found one that I like, at least that I'd want to keep for as long as I plan to keep this one. As for the $1000 laptop in the future ... well, I'm thinking my next laptop after this would be bought in like 2023 or 2024 or something like that. I usually like to wait a few generations or more before replacing my entire computer. My previous desktop before my i7-4790K and 32GB DDR3 had an AMD Athlon 64 X2 4000+ (contemporary with the Intel Core 2 Duo) and 4GB DDR2.
In the meantime I was considering upgrading the CPU and/or GPU in 2018 or 2019 (I'd think Kaby Lake and maybe Cannonlake may use the same socket, since Intel usually does a die shrink before they change sockets and Cannonlake is I think expected to be the die shrink), although if I get an i5 and 970M now I may skip that upgrade.

So ... is there a way I could get a P750DM with an i5-6500, GTX 970M MXM, 2 TB hard drive, external DVD writer, 1080p screen, Linux (or if Windows 10 Pro could be squeezed in that'd be nice), etc? Or would there be another model/brand with a built-in DVD writer (that can also be swapped out with a hard drive caddy), and if it has a soldered CPU, a 6700HQ or 6820HK, 2TB HDD with space for a 2nd one (using the optical bay caddy would be okay if necessary for the 2nd drive, although it appears the MSI GT72 has physical room for a 2nd drive plus the optical), for the $800 or $1000 price you were suggesting? Although, I could go up to about $1400-1500 or so.

And assuming I do go for this particular model, any recommendations on who to buy from, like XoticPC, PowerNotebooks, RJTech, others? I've noticed someone mentiones PowerNotebooks in his signature (forget who it is) and says call for discounts for NotebookReview forum members, but I don't know that I'm active here enough, and I'm not about to spam my way to qualifying for that. I definitely would like to have the laptop by the beginning of Christmas week, or at least the 22nd at the latest.

One thing I'm almost thinking though, since notebook GPUs are so expensive to buy standalone, then if one main component (of the CPU or GPU) wasn't replaceable, I'd almost rather have a soldered GPU and a socketed desktop CPU, if I was going for a different model. That aforementioned Panther 5SE reminds me though ... I almost wonder if someone would ever try putting a full PCI-Express slot in a laptop, along with a desktop CPU socket ... but I'm sure you'd run into problems when trying to put an FX-9590 and R9 390X2 in a laptop.

 

Getting the laptop like this: "i5-6500, GTX 970M MXM, 2 TB hard drive, external DVD writer, 1080p screen, Linux" would be a great config, I just don't know what that price would be. The other alternative I would recommend is a Sager NP8657. You could get that for around 1500 with a nice mobile i7 970m gsync, and decent hard drive config options. Otherwise you have a great laptop your looking at right now. If you put in the i5 and 970m you should be good to go. I just don't think putting in a crazy weak gpu would be worth it on that laptop. Same with the pentium. Just note you aren't likely to have many cpu upgrade options down the line. Usually the socket changes fairly often, so you could have support for the generation after skylake, but beyond that most likely it won't keep working. That's why I would get a mobile cpu and a replaceable gpu if I could, as MXM-B gpus seem to be here to stay for a while. A GT72 would be able to do that. However, cpu power is pretty irrelevant for gaming as the gains have been pretty pathetic in recent years. A skylake i5 should last you years, as a quad core from 2009 is still plenty good for modern gaming. Also I'm not sure if its realistic to expect a laptop to last until 2023, thats an insane amount of time in computers as so much could change.

 

Hey pianoplayer88key, regarding the touchpad issues you dad has -- Most touchpad settings should have an option where you can delay activation of the touchpad for a couple seconds after the keyboard has been in use. I.e., if you're typing on the keyboard, the touchpad is disabled until, say, 1 second after you stop typing. Try to download the latest drivers for the touchpad and see if that option is there. The other option in touchpad preferences that is even more common is a setting where the touchpad will disable itself whenever you plug in a mouse, so that's another option, if you're able to use a mouse. The last thing I want to say is that Galm seems to really know what he's talking about, I second his comments.

oh, also, not having nvidia optimus has some advantages which jaybee83 mentions here: http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...tial-impressions.782275/page-12#post-10137670

 

@Jakamo5, I think he had disabled the touchpad, since he uses an external mouse, but every now and then it keeps re-enabling itself.

As for the NVidia GPUs, what's their power usage like when not being stressed, as in just doing basic tasks, maybe watching a 1080p movie, not gaming? I'm hoping to go with the 965M, as I just mentioned in another thread a few minutes ago.

As for upgrading the CPU and GPU, I'm anticipating waiting 3 or so generations on the GPU (hopefully it's still MXM) and getting a '70, or if I can afford it, '80 then. For the CPU, if I get the i3 now (have pretty much decided against the Pentium) then I'd consider upgrading later to the last i7 to be compatible with this socket.

My dad's 7-year-old laptop still works now, although it's getting a bit constrained in the performance department. (Core2Duo T7250, 2GB DDR2, etc.) I'm hoping since this one's a bit higher specced, and upgradeable, that this one could last comparatively as long. Btw how long would it take until a then-new Celeron or Pentium is faster than a current i5 or i7? (I prefer making fairly large jumps when I upgrade or get a new PC - in my desktop, my current CPU is 10x faster than the one that was in my computer from 7 years ago, which was similar to my dad's laptop.)

 

That seems like it'll work. Just make sure to double check the i3 works. I think it should, but I've never heard of someone trying that before so you may wanna double check. Your gpu strategy is good though.

 

I'm hoping the i3 would work, cause ibuypower & cyberpowerPC (who I don't think I'd buy from) offer their version of this laptop with the i3. Also I'm presuming Linux should work, cause AVA Direct and Mythlogic offer it as options. What would make you think the i3 wouldn't work, even though it's the same socket?

 

No then it will work lol. Thats fine.

 

That's good to know. I'm having some difficulty finding a place through which I can get the combination I'd like, though. The only place that offers the 965M has a 6600K or 6700 (same price with them for both) minimum for the CPU, and the places that offer the lower-tier i5's, an i3 or no CPU (I'd have to buy it separately) only offer the 970M (except the one that offers it barebones but I'd have to have a GPU anyway and it'd be much more expensive to buy it separately).
I would have liked to have bought the laptop by now, but I'm just wanting to get the best for-me setup I can in my budget. I just don't know why I can't seem to get it with the 965M and i3-6100 or i5-6500 around $1400-1500. I can get either/or and the price is close to that, but not the combo. The difference in prices between components would get me in or even possibly slightly below that range, but also I'd maybe like a good warranty (which may bring it back up somewhat).

Maybe I should just get a basic Chromebook ... but then how would I put the 1+ TB of video on it from my camera I might be recording over Christmas weekend ..... just kidding! (Or I could buy three 512GB SDXC cards or 5 or 6 256GB SDXC cards, but I'd really prefer the laptop, and those high-capacity cards are still not all that cheap, especially the UHS-II speed class 3 ones that I'd need.)

Hey can the P750DM / NP9758 boot from an SD card in its card slot? If so I'm thinking I might consider installing the OS (Linux) from there, seeing as I don't have any USB flash drives or external DVD writer. (I do have card readers though.)