Considering an 8170 - questions

Well, I finally convinced the wife to let me go balls out and get myself a real gaming rig. I have been using an Asus G1 ( Asus G1 Gaming Notebook Review) for the last 4 years or so. It was fine for WoW and other light gaming, but I started to notice the age of it last year with DAO. Now Rift has sucked me in and I am tired of getting 10 fps at low settings.

I have about $3500 budget, but obviously, if I can save money I would prefer to do so. I will basically be playing a lot of Rift, some Civ 5, DAII, and Diablo 3 on it, as well as doing some photo editing in photoshop and lightroom. No video editing. Also this will need win7 and office so shave about 220 off what I can spend on tech.

I am pretty set on the 8170, although the 7280 has caught my eye as well. Not sure if I would need that much horsepower though. I don't care about size/weight as the only traveling it will do is from my home office to my living room.

I think I will be going through xoticpc, and here are the tentative specs I am thinking about:

Sager NP8170-S1 / Clevo P170HM
- 17.3" FHD 16:9 "Glare Type" Super Clear Ultra Bright LED Glossy Screen w/ 90% NTSC Color Gamut (1920x1080) (Will add 4-7 business days to build time
- -2nd Generation Intel® Core™ i7-2720QM, 2.2-3.3GHz, (32nm, 6MB L3 cache)
- nVidia GeForce GTX 485M 2,048MB PCI-Express GDDR5 DX11 (User Upgradeable)
- ~ 8,192MB DDR3 1333MHz Dual Channel Memory (2 SODIMMS)-
- ~ 6X Blue-Ray Burner/Reader / 8X DVDRW Super Multi Combo Drive
- ~ 300GB Intel 320 Series Solid State Drive (SSD Serial-ATA II)
- ~ 750GB 7200RPM (Serial-ATA II 300 - 16MB Cache)
- HDD Raid Settings - OFF
- Intel® Ultimate-N 6300 - 802.11A/B/G/N Wireless LAN Module
- Full Size Black Aluminum Notebook Cooler - Dual Fans - USB Powered (For up to 17" Laptops)

Questions I have -

1. 485 vs 6970 - I have reviewed a ton of threads confirming the 485 is only about 5% better, but I plan to have this beast for the next 3-4 years. Will that little bit of a bump in performance have an impact down the road? Also, as the 6970 just came out, is there a chance better drivers will improve its performance in a few months? what about overclocking either? Very tempted to just save myself $300 here...

2. the 2720 vs the 2630 - for $160 is this something I will truly use given the things I will be using the machine for?

3. Everything I have read indicates the 320 series ssd from intel is the better route to go for gaming? will this have any effect on photo editing?

4. will the 8g ram be enough for gaming and photoshopping?

5. BluRay - I don't really care about this, figured I would get a burner at some point as my daughter is starting to watch all the Disney stuff now and I may as well back up the discs.Better to just get an external and use the bay for a HD?

6. Raid 0? With and SSD main, is there any point in using raid 0 with the second drive if its only for media storage? what about it I opt for the HD in the optical bay?

7. Notebook cooler necessary? Never had one... have no idea if this machine needs it?

8. the 7280 - the option of dual 6970s is intriguing. That said, this machine detailed above should be able to handle all my needs for a few years, correct?

9. Does anyone have a numerical figure for how much more awesome this machine will be compared to my G1? Kidding here, but wow am I pumped to really see something that can play the top end stuff out there.

Thanks for the help all!

 

1. I don't think think this will really have to much difference for you. I went for the 485M for 2 reasons. The 6970M wasn't available at the time and I'm fed up with my desktop ATI cards throwing random fits in games.

2. For $160 I'd probably just stick with the 2630. There's really not much difference between the two. Where I bought my laptop from the 2720 was only about $25 more so I went with it.

3. I'm afraid I can't answer this for you as I'm getting my first SSD myself and don't know too too much about them, sorry.

4. 8GB of RAM should be more than enough for what you need.

5. This is personal preference. I like having the convenience of the drive always ready and using an external HDD.

6. RAID 0 will be of no use to you in that sense.

7. The Sager notebooks have excellent cooling and you shouldn't need a cooler. I'd say try it out first and judge it for yourself later.

8. The 7280 would be overkill for your needs. The 8170 should last you a few years no problem.

9. No contest. You'll wonder how you ever got along without it.

Hope this helps.

 

1: For most people the difference when gaming between the 485 and 6970 is not going to be noticeable. Which one is faster often depends more on which game rather than which card between the two.

The real reason people may want to spend money on the geforce is CUDA. I noticed a reference to photoshop. I'm not sure, but that may take advantage it. Worth researching anyway.

2: The difference between the two processors likely will not make much difference in gaming. It may have an impact on such things as photoshop.

3: Solid state drives are ALL going to be darn fast. The difference between one and the next is going to be noticeable mostly in synthetic benchmarks. Personally, i'd go with whichever drive is more reliable. (meaning intel)

4: 8 GB is probably plenty. It's fairly easy (and likely cheaper) to add more after the fact if you need it.

5: A blu ray burner is one of those things that is really personal taste IMO. Me, i'd probably put in the blue ray Reader, and grab a huge (external) hard disk for storage. Pretty sure that a Blu ray BURNER is pretty expensive as well.

6: For media storage RAID is probably overkill. The way i'd set up the 8170 would probably be 1 SSD, 1 HDD, and an optical drive. (I dislike having to have an external optical drive lying around)

7: Unless you plan on doing some heavy overclocking, the cooling on the 8170 will be just fine as long as you use it on some kind of hard surface. (for example, an 14 inch by 2 foot sheet of plywood would suffice)

8: The 6970 and 485 are both capable of running current games at 1080p, and likely will be plenty for several years. a pair running in SLI/xfire may be wanted if you wish for resolutions higher than that (on an external monitor, for example)

 

1) as others have mentioned, their difference is practically negligible.. i think Premiere is the only photoshop program that will benefit specifically from CUDA though. i went with the 485 since it was the only one available at the time. probably would have gone with the 6970 if i had the option

2) Just for gaming, the 2630 would suffice. and i think it'll be fine for photo editing as well. if you were doing video editing, you'd want the 2720

3) With ssd's, they're all going to be fast. ones with higher 4k randoms will make your daily use "snappier", and will help with gaming. higher sequential speeds help if you're transferring around a bunch of data. i currently have a 120gb intel 510, and a 500gb 7200rpm drive. i'm in the process of switching the two of them out for a 256gb Crucial c300 drive. i'm not benefiting from the higher sequential writes, so i wanted a bigger single drive with higher randoms for gaming

4) if you can swing it, more ram would only help things. especially for photo editing stuff. i'd suggest going with no ram from xotic, then buying your own off of newegg since it'll be cheaper for you

5) if you need the space, you could opt for another HD.. otherwise, i just got my first blueray player, and i have to say that the picture is superb. especially with these FHD screens!

6) No to raid no benefit for you.. and ssd's lose their TRIM abilities in Raid

7) if you're running the stock clocks (no overclocking) you shouldn't need one. the cooling on these things is great..

8) yeah, you should be good for a few years. even if in three years you decide you aren't getting enough performance, these rigs are made to be upgradeable. you could buy a better proc/gpu (assuming it's compatible).

9) combining the 485/6970 with your first ssd is going to be incredible you wont mind restarting your machine to install updates. it takes me about 18 seconds to boot after post, or a complete restart including post in about 38secs pretty nice

good luck!

 

I went with a very similar set up on the 8150 I just ordered. gonna use it for the same games too. for me the 6970m was a way better deal especially considering how much the 300gb SSd costs. I decided to go with the 2720 however as it will be able to support a future upgrade to 1600 memory and has a higher turbo clock.

 

Thanks for the feedback all.

 

In regard to the matte vs glossy screen - does anyone have an idea of how much better the 74% gamut matte screen is to the stock glossy? I am undecided if I want to go glossy or matte...

 

Take the 6970M + 2630QM.

Screen comparisons here:


http://forum.notebookreview.com/sag...-between-different-screen-options-photos.html

The 90% is the only way to go.

 

Jumping on with OP's thread.

Does powerexpress work to increase battery life using the IGP instead of the 6970?

I'm sure it's been answered somewhere.

 

None of Clevo's current-gen, high end machines will utilize the IGP. This is set in stone, and impossible to circumvent.

 

1. Frankly, I just went with the 460M in mine. I run FEAR2 and StarCraft2 at 1920x1080 with every setting on max at 50+FPS--I think either of those cards will get you pretty far.

2. The processor will make little difference in what you're describing, unless your Photoshop use includes running complex filters on very large (30+megapixel) images. All the Sandy Bridge processors are ridiculously freaking fast.

3. Definitely get an SSD. It will have little effect on photo editing, but everything will load fifty times faster. Not counting time spent on the BIOS screen, my system boots to a web browser in Windows in about 9 seconds.

4. 8GB is definitely enough for anything right now unless you're running multiple virtual machines or professional CAD software (or editing a lot of video, which you said you weren't going to do).

5. It already has two HDD bays. Do you need 3 hard drives in your laptop?

6. Do not use RAID for wildly different disks. If you get two SSDs, it might make sense.

7. My 8170 runs cool to the touch under heavy load. No cooler necessary. I use my old laptop cooler as a mousepad on the couch these days

8. Way freaking overkill--though that's what that machine is for, I guess.

9. 48176542% better.

 

god damnit. I keep trying to buy a Sager, and stuff like this keeps pushing me towards a R3.

 

1. If you're going to get a 485 or a 6970, definitely go with the 6970. I have yet to see anything that says that card is inferior to the 485 and it's way cheaper. Obviously, you will be able to play games for a longer amount of time than if you had the 460.

2. As for the processor, forget the 2720. Unless you are planning on getting 1600Mhz RAM over 1333Mhz RAM, which is also not worth it, you should stick with the 2630, for sure.

3. SSD is the way to go. I did however read some reviews which measure the speed of some SSDs against the Momentus hybrid HDD, and the hybrid drive came up right behind the SSDs. Obviously, the hybrid is way cheaper, but I have also read a lot of people have problems with the drive. I think the bottom line is go for an SSD.

4. 8GB of RAM will be more than enough for you.

5. I'd say go with a ODD and not another HDD. You really don't need 3 HDDs. As for a Blu-Ray BURNER, you have to remember that you can't play burned Blu-Rays on most players.

6. Forget RAID, it disables an option of the SSD(s).

7. Forget the cooler, as said, these laptops have great cooling systems already.

8. Also as said, the 7280 is overkill. You'll be more than fine with the 8170.

 

1.) The performance difference between the two is small. I'm like you, I want to be able to use this machine for quite some time before my next upgrade. I personally picked the 485M do to the "possible" upgrade option to future mobile GPU's like the 5**M or 6**M series. Of coarse, there is no guarantee!

2.) Any one of of these new sandy bridge CPU's will be more then suffice. This is a personal preference and budget minded purchase. With that said, and being outside the norm, I went with the 2820QM, but the 2720 is just as fine for photo editing and games.

3.) SSD are much faster then the old HDD. Keep in mind that cost is major factor, and prices on SSD's are dropping slowly. Me being old school, I went HDD for now to save a few bucks. Boot time on a SSD is so fast, it makes HDD's look slow.

4.)8GB is more then suffice for current hardware. It's nice to have a little future headroom to upgrade to 16GB. I decided to not add RAM an stick to 4GB stock, and plan to purchase 8GB in the near future via online retailer.

5.)Ah ya, Bluray...considering that bluray is the dominant media over DVD this is a no brainier. It's nice to whip out a disc of either format and enjoy a movie on the go. The burner is expensive and if you plan to ever use that feature, then it would negate the cost. I got the DVD burner for my old z70va, but never used it, because my desktop was more convenient.

6.)I've never dealt with raid, so I can't answer this..

7.)I have a notebook cooler for all my laptops not because of CPU/GPU temps, but for the memory and HDD temps. Yes, clevo cooling is top tier for the chips, but haven't you noticed that most people replace their notebook HDD often. One of the primary reasons for this is because of heat. It's not uncommon for notebook HDD's to reach 55*c /60*c. Harddrives don't live long above 55*c.

8.)The 7280 is one hell of a powerhouse! If you want future proof, this might be it for the 5yr marker. With that said, you are looking at a very expensive & bulky machine. very poor battery life! heavy at 12lb's, not to mention the power brick itself is 3lb's. Stick with the 8170, unless of coarse, you get the idea...

9.)I'm with you on this. I play most modern games on my powerful SLi desktop that my poor little Asus z70va could only wish to play. On a scale of 1-10 for the upgrade, ....you will be just floored and head banging your head off that 10 scale for sure...

 

Wow, thanks for all the replies everyone. In regard to SSD size - if I am going to have Win 7 Pro and Office 2010 on the SSD, any idea how much room will that take up?

I am thinking I want about at least 60g for games/apps to boot on the SSD - leaning toward the 160g Intel SSD.... This should be enough for me, thoughts?

Also - on the screens - thanks Kevin for posting that link the screenshots - wow what a difference. Are there any shots of the 17.3 inch 72% Matte screen floating around?

 

Windows 7 and Office will be under 10GB, so if you use about 60GB for games/apps as well, an 80GB SSD should be fine.

As for the screen, v1 is the matte screen.