D900F - SSD160/Seagate 500GB 7200GB stability issues and performance issues.

I purchased the D900F in my sig from XoticPC about a month ago. I have been working on and off with Sager to try resolve my problem. Both companies have been very helpful, I am just a bit frustrated that the performance still sucks on my expensive SSD.

HDs in my notebook:
INTEL SSDSA2MH160G1GC
2x ST9500420AS - Seagate 500 GB 7200 rpm

In a nutshell, I had stability problems with the SSD, that now seems revolved but the performance still is not what its suppose to be. Or phrased in another way, its not what I had paid for.

I had bought the notebook without an OS. Logically I installed Vista-64 on my SSD for performance etc. None of the disks are in a RAID configuration. Further, I installed ALL the drivers from the driver disk, even the Optional Drivers. Even the iMSM (ACHI and RAID) drivers (its works better with these installed btw, as I tried running without them, and stability was even worse).

I got the notebook with the SSD installed in the slot under the battery (P2), the other two Seagates were installed in slots (P0 and P1).

See screen shot, of current BIOS.






The install of the OS went fine. But when I started using it, I got period lockups. I also tried benchmarking the SSD and got some seriously crappy results.

I then contacted XoticPC & SAGER, they emailed me a ISO of a HD testing program. I ran it, and test came back with more the 20 errors and stopped. SAGER had me ship them back the SSD, they sent me a replacement ... (2 weeks ago)

With the new SSD performance was not great, but seemed consistent at 120MB/sec, no dips, no lockups. So, I figured I'd give it a week and see.

Then I tried to do a my regular backups at the end of the week (this was a week ago). Norton ghost just hangs when I try to back-up the SSD. Also I use allot of data in large encrypted files. I have a 41GB file on the SSD the I simply tried to copy from the SSD to a USB-HD backup drive. It hanged every time at 5% complete, and I had tried a couple times.

This was a serious issue for me.

I was perplexed, the SSD seems to works okay running the OS. After all I ran it for more than a week, hell it holds my OS. If there was a serious problem the whole thing would have failed.

I then tried something weird, I removed the two Seagates (slot P0 and P1). Booted up again. Ran a benchmark on the SSD. Hell, look at it purr, 200 MB/sec. See the attached the my screen shot attached. That its the what my benchmark should look like!




I ran Norton Ghost, no problem. I backed up 41GB file to USB, no problem. What the hell? This must be the key to whatever is wrong.

So, I contacted SAGER again, they sent me email regarding "SSC, spread-spectrum clocking" In a nutshell they had mailed me some tiny jumpers that I installed on my Seagate drives the limits their interference with the SSD (in theory that is). Though it limits the STs data transfer somewhat.

I did it, see my photo attached.




Then ran a benchmark on my SSD, and performance is still horrible (for and SSD) (see attached).




Look at those freaking dips. I wonder what the hell those dips are? Now I am thinking errors due to interference, re-reads etc? Its starts off good at near 200MB/sec then takes nose dive to 115 MB/sec and stays there.

I ran another benchmark 2 hours later. Never reached 200MB/sec but at least consistent at 114MB/Sec.




I then tried to copy that large 41GB file again from the SSD to the USB-HD, and thankfully that at least works. I also managed to run Norton Ghost and backup make a backup image of the SSD (with the other HDs installed)

So this jumpers that effect SSC gave me stability, but did NOT resolve my performance issue. For that matter, its slowing my ST HDDs down (I don't care about the latter much)

I really want my SSD to run at 200MB/sec without dips in performance. I mean I paid allot for it, and clearly the notebook can do it (as proven when I run it without those other HDs). I dont think I am being unreasonable.

I really feel it may either be a driver issue, or the SSD is not shielded well, or my HD controller on my notebook is not working correctly. Either way, I am not very happy now the I know what my SSD can do, and what its not doing

Question for you guys:

1. Anyone else with my problem out there?
2. Are there newer drivers some place, specifically for iMSM (ACHI and RAID). Even though I don't use RAID, the SSD seems to behave allot better with those installed.
3. Should I be using that Realtek Boot Agent? I just ignored it ...
4. Any advice or suggestions would be great.

 

There are newer drivers for the SDD and i remember seeing a topic here about them (can't find it atm), in that topic it was said it fixed a lot of problems!

http://www.intel.com/support/chipsets/imsm/

I am not responsable for what can happen !

 

Just in case you have not. Upgrade the firmware for your 160GB SSD. See link.

Intel® X25-M Solid State Drive, 160GB SATA II Firmware

 

Yup, sorry I forgot to add I did download the latest firmware for the SSD (bootable iso) and tried to flash it. It came back saying that it had already been updated. Seems like Sager or Intel had done it before it got to me.

 

Thanks for the driver link, been looking for it. As I very recently imaged my drive I had no fear installing it




Unfortunately it did not do anything for my performance problem

Still sitting at 115MB/sec (only a little bit better the my normal HDs)

Thanks though for tracking that link down for me.

 

Have you tried swapping the slots? Better yet: Put the SSD in the 0 slot, then re-install Windows.
If all fails, return the drive (it is not delivering as advertised), and get a Gen2. Cheaper, better.

 

I got this response back from Sager:

"Hi xxxx, by adding the jumpers on the Seagate hard drives, the system is stable. However, the performance is reduced. So far, that is the only solution to overcome the hardware limitation."

I don't agree with their assessment. Adding the jumper should slow down the seagate HDs to reduce the electronic interference they generate - it should NOT effect the performance of the SSD. (I added no jumpers to the SSD, how will it know it should be running slower?) If the SSD was throttling itself back, it should first start of at 200MB/sec then we should see it drop to 114MB/sec.

This issue sounds more and more like BIOS or drivers to me. I read someplace on the form that a 3rd rev of the D900F is around the corner, I may wait and see if that helps.

I still find it very s uprising that I am the only one reporting this issue. Surely someone else is having this problem? I can't be the only one with a SSD and 2x Seagate 500GB configuration. Either that, or people are not benchmarking their SSD - as you wont easy spot the issue unless you look for it.

I am a bit frustrated, I really want the SSD to perform as rated - hell thats why I bought it.

 

Yea, I thought about that. But placing the SSD in slot 0 will mean it will have a ST HD just underneath it. Pretty much increasing proximity and electronic interference. So I don't see the point.

The SSD (in slot 3) works just great when its the only drive in my notebook, and it slows down when I add back the STs.

I'm again talking with XoticPC. They have been pretty good in past dealings with them ... I'll have to wait and see what they'll suggest. I can be pretty patient, as long as I can get this resolved one way or another.

 

I'm not a bios, hardware, driver, or software expert but we need to try and eliminate as many variables as possible (easier said than done I know).

It seems like if you get the performance you expect out of the SSD when it's the only drive attached.
Make sure no firmware updates for the seagate HDs (I saw someone mentioned the SSD).

Try 1 Seagate drive and check performance (in all slot configurations).

Eliminate the Seagate hard drive which isn't easy cause you need another model hard drive like WD, Hitachi, etc. If the performance is still slow/comparable on the SSD you know it's not the type of HD you are using. If not you've got your answer.

Now in this situation if different HDs perform the same then what's next.
- Bad MB design and can't support this (that would stink).
- BIOS fix (hard to determine other than having Clevo replicate issue/tests)
- OS driver issue (Could try to eliminate by trying other OSs (win7, vista (x32, x64), linux?) - but of course lots of work there)
- Common driver degraded performance flaw using SSD and HDs together (see if you can find any issues with desktop MBs having similar issue using SATA on same ports).

Definitely not an easy task and I'd be just as frustrated as you are. It's like when you get those dam BSOD what's causing it...heat, driver, overclock, voltage, power supply. Hopefully this gave you some additional ideas to try.

 

I can only tell you that my SSD (the Gen1 Intel, before I swapped it for the new Gen2) performed as expected - yes, I checked with HD Tune. I had it in slot 0 and the 250GB Seagate in slot 1.

 

I will with many other stick on following point.The ssd technology is too new and will regularly improve.I guess it will optimal perform and be fully reliable around 2012.

 

Yea, that's a great idea. I'll search around. Never thought of that, only thought of flashing the SSD ... you never know.

I see where you going with that, I'll give it a go too.

Also, I may try slot my old D901C drives 160GB drives in place, just to see whats happens. I wanted to already do that, but had some trouble removing them, they seemed stuck even after removing all the screws - I did not want to force them out. I'll give it another try.

Aye, cheers for the input buddy. Its great to have another person think about the problem also.

Unfortunately, I contract and I am out on the road. When I get back home this week-end I'll give all the above a go. I always have to miticlously backup and make sure I can get back to where I was before I do anything to radical.

 

Not exactly my configuration, but close. Thanks for the information though.

 

i 2nd that you should try the SSD in slot 0, since who knows maybe the SSD being sandwiched by the battery and the charging discharging circuit is causing the poor performance?

i say try without the battery first and then try it in slot 0. to get a better picture.

 

Well in a nutshell I believe its working correctly now, moving it to P0 did the trick.

I also just wanted to thank you guys for giving me other ideas to look at the issue

I first used ghost to image everything again ... then tried it without the notebook battery - resulting in no performance difference. I then swapped my old D901C 160GB HDs into the D900F - and big surprise the SSD ran fast again.

I then moved the SSD to the P0 with the 500Gbs on P1 and P2, then everything not only runs per-spec, but reliable too. I can ghost the SSD etc.

So I have serous doubts it really was interference to start with. My guess is something to do with the combination of the hard drive controller and this specific combination of SSD and HD drives.

Anyways, I'm happy with the performance and so I am done messing with it.

Now if only I could get my power supply from stop making its whining electronic sound Apart from that, I am seriously impressed with the D900F + SSD combination performance. Loading programs is blazing fast. I often with large encrypted blobs and VMs ... this notebook seems in a serious hurry. Its workstation.

 

Good good.
And I couldn't agree more: i7 + triple DDR3 + Intel SSD = WOW!

You still have dips in your HDTune graph that I don't. I guess it's due to your particular setup, or the Gen2 is that better, because my graph is much straighter - I get an average of 199,4.

 

Yep, the dips aren't major. I ran quite a few HD Tunes in a row. Some are better than others. I attribute the variance to the fact that the OS (Vista-64) is also on the same HD, and who know what the OS does at times in the middle of the test.

Looking at other review graphs for this model, this is very close to what it should look like. I am content.

I'm just glade I got it running at max performance. Its amazing to see my notebook's HD trash desktop with a Velociraptor

 

This is strange, I also have a D900F (by Sager) and I am having some horrible RAID 5 performance issues. Major dips in HDTach. Peaks of 80MB/s write and averages of around 65MB/s. Also hear the clicks of death (heads parking) even though the hard disks are just fine when tested out of the raid. They are WD Scorpio Blue 250GB.

Under iMSM I kept getting reports of Degraded RAID or even a Failed RAID once in a couple of weeks.

Tried iMSM driver 8.8, 8.9, and the most recent 9.5 RST (unreleased) The 9.5 driver at least made the RAID 5 perform faster than a single drive in the RAID, and much faster than the 8.9 driver/iMSM.

Sager has suggested turning on SSC (spread spectrum clocking), that improved the dipping very slightly but degraded performance by about 20%.

What to do? There is something wrong with the way Clevo integrated the SATA ports on the D900F I think. In a RAID 5 I would expect at least a sequential read of 100MB/s... without insane dips. Oh yea, ICH10R/D0 option rom revision 8.8.0.1009 (not sure how to update)

 

There actually has been the same problem with the d901c. I bought mine from a friend here and I told him that I was gonna install an ssd. The first thing he said was "make sure not to install it in the battery slot". Apparently people have tested this out with the d901c and for some reason the battery slot sucks for ssd performance. I know that a d900f is not the exact same thing but i really would try it - what do you have to lose eh

Ninja edit: Lol I didn't read all of page 2, seems you got it sorted out alreay - congratulations

 

Well, I have resolved the head clicking (it looks like) with the WDIDLE3 utility by turning off the idle head park after a few seconds. But, the horrid RAID 5 performance is still a big prob.

 

Btw, I know its been some time since my original post.

But I have resolved all my issues. Even my powersupply over time seems to have stopped its whining

Sager has been very good about it. I am also now running on Win7-64bit ... and and I seriously happy with the performance + stability.

The SSD is in slot 2 now. Next to another HD in slot 1 (an HD with the least activity ... heat). Slot 0 has the HD that sees the second most activity.

slot 2 - SSD (drive C) holds the OS Win764bit-Ultima + Primary VMs (XP-pro)
slot 0 - HD 500GB (drive D) - holds most of my other VMs (CentOS, another Win7-Pro, another XP-Pro) and most of my programs.
slot 1 - HD 500GB (drive e) - mostly just backup data, and fraps videos.

I don't know if its Win7, or Win7 + SSD. But the notebook seems very fast and stable.

Now with my issues resolved, I have not been this happy with a notebook in some time ... this is as close to a mobile desktop as I am going to get

I mostly play AION and some Dragon Age ... even with one graphics card, I am pretty happy with it.