It's a cocktail of crap that creates a comedy of errors that can end in tragedy. Precision X does not have to be present, but having it present seems to enhance the likelihood of problems. Precision X does not work for AMD GPUs. It is exclusively for NVIDIA. All reported examples involve systems with NVIDIA GPUs, no AMD examples. My main point is the one thing that is absolutely required to create havok comes from the evil devils in Redmond. The problem never existed before these idiots spread their cheeks and dropped a smelly load on us known as Windows 10. The timeline is too compelling for it to be a coincidence. I didn't brick 3 Alienware screens and 1 Clevo screen as a coincidence and the lowest common denominator is their crappy new OS. That's all I am saying. I'm sure there are technical details and subtle nuances that we do not understand and most certainly will never be willingly disclosed to us. All I know for sure is, nothing was broken before Windows 10 and GeForce drivers designed to support Windows 10.
As a side note--probably related, but I cannot prove it--my 780M GPUs ran flawlessly before NVIDIA started focusing on Windows 10. I cannot use ANY drivers with a version number that provides full Windows 10 support without severe throttling that renders those GPUs worthless on any OS. They only work correctly with driver versions pre-dating Windows 10 support. So, another example of Windows 10 being at the root of the problem. Had Micro$lop not produced such a horribly botched up mess, I doubt we would have any threads like this one.
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MahmoudDewy Gaming Laptops Master Race!
GMLP, Rundll32, Papusan and 1 other person like this. -
Well, mine's been fine for half a year now...
Anyway, the common denominator is Nvidia after all, the way I see it. The new driver updates that offer the low level hardware access came out round about the same time and are still out. Don't forget that when you install a fresh copy of Win10 you also get some sort of a driver already in the OS (otherwise you'd be running at a crappy low res and lagging, like used to be the case with Win XP and even 7 if the card was too new or too obscure). There seems to be no other reason for Win7 or 8 to brick either. I can't imagine the win10 ready updates granting any low level access because even if it needed to do so to tie the OS to the system for activation purposes - you wouldn't need to "upgrade" first (meaning it needs a previous install to determine your activation).
All that and AMD being safe just points to an Nvidia failure somewhere to me, the rest looks like a massive timeline coincidence.
The "Redmond Devils", as brother Fox puts it, may have granted access to more stuff than it needs to, but that does not seem to affect AMD in any way shape or form. You can't take all the Nvidia based computers that crapped out and say "Win10 did it", while ignoring the fact that nothing happened to AMD machines running the same OS and screens and the fact that literally all the machines were running Nvidia hardware and Nvidia drivers...
i know hate for Win10 is strong in you, Fox, but let's think rationally!Rundll32 likes this. -
Maybe the low level access and thus the screen problems are due to how activation in Win10 occurs which is tied to the hardware.
Maybe if Microsoft was giving actual keys to activate we wouldn't have this problem. -
If you have a look at some of the OEM activation problems people have - hardware swapping was an issue as far back as Win7 (this is just from my recent experience as I had my OEM Win crap out at me too after adding an SSD, but I'm sure there may be similar problems with older OEM systems like Vista).
I highly doubt it's in any way related as it's not a new thing by any means. -
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DynamiteZerg likes this.
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I called Dell tech support just for fun and inquired about the ongoing issue. He even asked around and nobody there knew anything of the issue. That is tier 1 support but still.
Rundll32 likes this. -
Good day! Thank you for contacting Microsoft Customer Service.
Microsoft always appreciates it when customers take the time to provide their feedback. It is with great concern we received your email outlining the issue you had with Windows 10 NVIDIA drivers. Please accept my sincere and unreserved apology for the inconvenience this has caused you. I will let our management know about your insight with regards to your service experience. We will make sure that this gets addressed. By taking the time to submit your feedback you've also ensured that it is in the system of record, and available for review by Microsoft.
Sent from my GT-N7105 using TapatalkTomJGX likes this. -
One thing that doesnt sit well in win10s favor in the blame game is even on my amd powered m18x my screen quite often will post nothing like it doesnt work at all and i have to turn it off and on again. And this only started as soon as i upgraded to win10. . Also i accidentally disabled my hard disks one time when i reset the bios and win10 got amazingly far into its loading sequence before i realized my hdd was disabled. So 2 things.. why is an operating system even able to effect my pc before it even posts the logo?? Also where in the hell is it storing that loading info when my hard disk was disabled my pc doesn't even have uefi
Just a thought Maybe its the other way around. Maybe its nvidia providing the access through there cards and win10 doing something that causes the damage
Sent from my GT-N7105 using TapatalkCaerCadarn likes this. -
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As for your display issues, maybe the card is dying as a result of something Windows 10 did. AMD cards aren't exactly the most reliable cards around after all. It's almost like AMD baked an expiration into each one.Arestavo likes this. -
Like for me I prefere clean instalation
Update all time cause a lot of issues and incompatible
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Guys relax. Dell got us covered. lol
Attached Files:
Kade Storm likes this. -
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Kade Storm The Devil's Advocate
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I forgot that some of the newer M18s have warranties still. However many more, and older R1 and R2 systems, do not have any warranty left.
TomJGX likes this. -
Kade Storm The Devil's Advocate
Last edited: Jan 19, 2016 -
I mean, I'm still not 100% sure my system won't get bricked now with Prema vbios installed (although I gotta say I am liking it since I'm benching much higher and the framerates are not fluctuating) because I've had some weird stability issues with it.
I'd be inclined to say that a system straight from Dell would most likely not exhibit any of this bricky behaviour, but then flashing and modding and possibly certain monitoring software might f*ck it up. Therefore I wouldn't say that Dell is responsible for the bricks or should refrain from recommending Win10. Mine works fine and has done for the last 6 or so months and so it means that just purely Nvidia + Win10 can't be blamed. -
Kade Storm The Devil's Advocate
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@t456, could you add another EDID to your good edid archive please? It's for a 3D 120Hz Samsung SEC5044 - LTN173HT02-D02 (Dell part number DHCG2).
00 FF FF FF FF FF FF 00 4C A3 44 50 00 00 00 00 01 16 01 04 95 26 15 78 02 A0 55 8D 51 5A 96 2A 1C 50 54 00 00 00 01 01 01 01 01 01 01 01 01 01 01 01 01 01 01 01 5F 39 80 DC 70 38 40 40 30 20 35 00 7E D7 10 00 00 1B 00 00 00 0F 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 3C 96 10 FE 00 00 00 00 FE 00 47 4E 33 36 54 80 31 37 33 48 54 0A 20 00 00 00 00 00 00 41 21 9E 00 00 00 00 02 01 0A 20 20 01 D1 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
I am happy to report that after months of testing in Optimus, my LG screen was never bricked again without Precision X installed (also no Windows updates, just basic Windows 8.1 Pro with update 1 iso image). I switched to dedicated and tested it for about 2 weeks successfully with no bricks too. 2 days ago upgraded 1080p LG to 120Hz Samsung screeen and so far so good.Attached Files:
jaybee83 likes this. -
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How did you extract that edid, btw? It claims to have an extension block (there's a '01' before the final 'D1' checksum), but the rest is all zeroes. Checked the existing 256-byte SEC5044 and this particular block contains the 100, 110 and 120 Hz timings, so it's fairly important to have these present with this specific model.
To all; this is also something to check before flashing. Using write-edid.sh on a 256-byte edid will work fine and nothing may seem amiss, but that would leave the second 128-byte block as is. If that hasn't been corrupted then all is still good, but otherwise you'd loose part of that information. So ... just to be sure, use the write-edid-256.sh for those panels ('X' in the list):
archive correct edids, v11.7z
Code:pnp id notes interf panel nr. edid eeprom ------- ----- ------ ------------- ------------------- AUO10ED ! LVDS B156HW01 V0 AUO12ED eDP B156HAN01.2 AUO149D ! LVDS B173HW01 V4 AUO159D LVDS B173HW01 V5 AUO219D ! LVDS B173HW02 V1 CMO1719 LVDS N173O6-L02 CMO1720 ! LVDS N173HGE-L11 LGD01CA LVDS LP173WD1-TLA1 LGD0226 LVDS LP173WD1-TLC2 LGD0285 LVDS LP173WF1-TLC1 LGD0289 LVDS LP173WD1-TLA3 LGD02C5 X eDP LP173WF2-TPA1 LGD02DA ! LVDS LP173WF1-TLB3 LGD02FC C LVDS LP173WF3-SLB2 LGD0343 LVDS LP173WF1-TLB5 LGD037E LVDS LP156WF4-SLB5 LGD0391 LVDS LP173WD1-TLE1 LGD03FB LVDS LP173WF1-TL** LGD0469 E eDP LP173WF4-SPF1 LGD046C E eDP LP173WF4-SPD1 MEI96A2 eDP VVX16T020G00 SDC3654 LVDS LTN173KT03-W01 SDC4852 eDP LTN156FL02-L01 SDC4C48 ! LVDS LTM184HL01-C01 SEC314A LVDS LTN184HT03-001 SEC4A4B LVDS LTN184KT01-J01 SEC5044 !?AWX eDP LTN173HT01-301 Winbond 25X20BLNIG SEC5044 !?AWX eDP LTN173HT02-D** Winbond 25X20BLNIG SEC5044 !AX eDP LTN173HT02-D02 "" ? SEC5044 AX eDP LTN173HT02-P01 "" ? SEC5044 AX eDP LTN173HT02-T01 "" ? SEC5443 LVDS LTN170CT08-D01 SEC5448 ! LVDS LTN184HT02-S01 SEC544B B LVDS LTN173KT01-*** SEC544B BD LVDS LTN140KT**-*** ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ! = known bricked panels !? = bricked, but unknown which one * = unknown part id A = highly suspect: multiple variants exist, perhaps the others are safe ... B = multiple variants, flash the correct one! C = EliteBook 8**0w DreamColor, 10-bit, for fun ^^ D = 14.0" version for M14x, just in case E = G-Sync approved panel W = write-protect possible X = 256-byte edid; use write-edid-256.sh instead of write-edid.sh If multiple edids exist for one PnP id; flash the most recent edid, unless indicated otherwise. -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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00 ff ff ff ff ff ff 00 4c a3 44 50 00 00 00 00
01 16 01 04 95 26 15 78 02 a0 55 8d 51 5a 96 2a
1c 50 54 00 00 00 01 01 01 01 01 01 01 01 01 01
01 01 01 01 01 01 5f 39 80 dc 70 38 40 40 30 20
35 00 7e d7 10 00 00 1b 00 00 00 0f 00 00 00 00
00 00 00 00 00 3c 96 10 fe 00 00 00 00 fe 00 47
4e 33 36 54 80 31 37 33 48 54 0a 20 00 00 00 00
00 00 41 21 9e 00 00 00 00 02 01 0a 20 20 01 d1
02 01 04 00 f2 5c 80 a0 70 38 40 40 30 20 35 00
7e d7 10 00 00 1b 3d 66 80 a0 70 38 40 40 30 20
35 00 7e d7 10 00 00 1b 89 6f 80 a0 70 38 40 40
30 20 35 00 7e d7 10 00 00 1b 00 00 00 00 00 00
00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 29Last edited: Jan 22, 2016 -
Hi All,
Back on the Alienware scene again but this time I have an m17x r4 with a 970m, I previosuly had an m18x r2 780m sli using Mr. fox's 345.20 and that system did touch windows 10 for an hour or so and then I stumbled on the thread about winshite killing Alienware's (can imagine my face) but I'd say 4 months in and that m18x is still going.. just thought I'd cheer some people up that it's not all necessarily doom and gloom.
Anyway.. this 970m will I be better protected in optimus mode? I just got the laptop today and when I used FN F7 to go from dedicated to optimus I got 8 beeps. Since then I had to remove 970m put BIOS from Legacy to UEFI re install 970m then I installed Windows 8.1 but this is now in dedicated mode.. scared to change to optimus in case I get those 8 beeps again lol.. The joys of Alienwares -
No kidding. I won't ever be buying an Alienware, or Dell, again.
TomJGX likes this. -
This is odd. Windows works fine. EFI works fine. Moninfo shows me a registry entry for my LCD that does indeed pass on the EDID checker... But every linux distro I try throws up three empty EDIDs before the splash comes up and then it freezes when it would hand off to the desktop. Let me see if this custom Lubuntu distro @t456 made will boot.
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Nope. No dice.
Sorry the pic is so bad. It flies by too fast.
Curious that my machine works otherwise though?
Edit: So that's interesting. I'm running Mint 17.3 right now with full nVidia hardware acceleration (albeit on one GPU) and everything. For some reason, Ubuntu and its derivatives are messed up but not Mint. Mint just needed --nomodeset added to GRUB and it works perfectly.Last edited: Jan 23, 2016 -
Well giving windows 10 another run on my M18Xr2. So far no problems. Finally sorted out the driver issues ive been having the last while as well. Only thing I've noticed is while the computers booting the screen flickers during the late part of the boot sequence just before the login screen shows up. Otherwise no problems so far tho I'll be watching it like a hawk.
Ethrem likes this. -
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Ethrem likes this.
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I'd be using 350.12 if they worked on windows 10 but the earliest is 352.84 and the initial launch build of win 10 + them was twitchy at best. Been using win 8.1 and 350.12 for ages but decided to do an OS wipe and try win 10 again with the newer update. Not touching any overclocking stuff since I know precision x is a lcd killer now. All i got on it is my games, antivirus and spybot and antibeacon, the drivers that work from 8.1 along with the ones for win 10 that installed and the 359.12 drivers. Initially twichy and the osd was sluggish to install but for now seems perfectly stable bar that issue with xiv.
Edit: Waitin on nvidia to release a new driver since 361.60 and its predecessor cause a BSOD with the 980m according to mrfox.Last edited: Jan 26, 2016 -
One other thing im noticing now is when i start up the computer from cold boot its freezing and I gotta power it off and on again :/. Dunno whats causing it so I'm disabling the fast boot option under the power settings to make the computer do a complete boot when I start it up. Was doing that before and eventually caused a OS corruption on windows 8.1 :/Ethrem likes this. -
I turn off hibernation entirely - administrative command prompt - powercfg -h off
Seems to fix a lot of problems.Infinaris likes this. -
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Tried Prema's vbios clevo mod. Doesnt seem to solve the issue tho. Only difference I see is with the modified vBios the voltage on the 2nd card remains steady at 1.0620v and the primarys running at 1.0680v. When the throttling occurs the primary drops to the same voltage as the 2nd. FPS drops to around 45 which is annoying. Only thing I can assume is its something to do with the driver itself and no amount of modifying is gonna help since I cant find the root cause of it in the 1st place. One thing I do know is it seems to occur in the exact same places (eg. Start of Pharos Sirius, Area before the 1st boss in arboritum)
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As for the windows 10 system on the m18x it seems to be fine. Just seems to be that driver issue above that I cant figure out whats causing it other than thinking its something nvidia broke in their driver, Latest drivers seem to be FUBAR on the 9xx series as well so.....Last edited: Jan 28, 2016 -
@Mr. Fox ,etc.,
My Panther only has a 60 Hz screen the 90% NTSC. I have bricked the screen before using EVGA Precision X, on windows 7. I believe it corrupts the files your talking about flashing. It was when I had the RAM OCed- maxed out and then tried to OC the k5000m's with EVGA, and then i mistakenly clicked launch at start up tab, then tried to OC the crap out of them that is when it bricked. Then I did a blind restore to default from Blank but active BIOS screen.
If you recall I was talking about restoring BIOS settings in the dark. Anyways I wanted people to know that its not just Windows 10 (which I have not installed on the Panther as of yet). I am not sure how this happens, but the signs of the impending screen brick with EVGA precision X is green horizontal trailers/tares when OCing the GPU's. You just have to remember the key sequence to restore BIOS to default. That is how I did it anyway. And DO NOT CLICK launch at start up until you have firmly tested your OC. Noting there are no screen tares or shuttering. I still use EVGA presicion X, I think it is the best one and has the most control. That is it has enough programming to actually push my cards PAST their respective limits....thus corrupting them......not for the average user IMHO. It may be a very good idea to write down your respective startup to BIOS restore to default key sequence before using it. In hind sight that is what I would do. This problem may be more prolific in the 120Hz screens, but I have no first hand knowledge of that.i_pk_pjers_i likes this. -
i have a m18x R2
windows 8.1 in pure uefi,
970m PEG mode
Samsung 184HT (SEC5448)
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hello,
i have basically read though over 150 pages on this whole windows 10 shabam, and i have yet to understand exactly how this is all playing out.
but back to the more important stuff,
i have a
m18x R2
windows 8.1 in pure uefi,
970m PEG mode
Samsung 184HT (SEC5448)
(NO EVGA presision x and Never had it)
my question is, has there been a solution to all this other then just to avoid win 10,
does cutting the LVDS wires solve the problem on my monitor model, and if so what are the cons
is it safe to clean install windows 10 given you dont have EVGA PX? -
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For the moment, keeping PrecisionX forever off of your system should be enough (but there have been a few reports to the contrary). -
Mr. Fox bravely cut the ' LVDS Self Test Enable' on the theory that that might enable hardware write-protect. This, unfortunately, was not the case and it only disabled the Dell pre-boot lcd test patterns. Which, btw, is harmless, but doesn't help us. Cutting any of the other three will prevent edid corruption simply because there's no longer an edid 'present'. Then again, without lcd-specific parameters the gpu will not know how to drive the lcd (refresh rate, number of pixels and colour space), so that doesn't solve anything either; black screen.
Furthermore, it is the inherent to I2C that it is bi-directional; a single pin (DATA EEDID) suffices for both read and write operations, so we cannot simply cut the 'write' wire, since that would disable the 'read' function also.
However, you can write-protect the edid eeprom itself, but only if its write-protect pin has the final say. This is not always the case; some need both the wp-pin and a software bit set before write-protect is active. For example, the CMN1735 (N173HGE-E11) can be write-protected by merely bridging (shorting, really) the WP and voltage pin, preferably with a resistor in-between:
The SEC5044 needed a software bit, too, and we never found out which bit. Still, the i2cset tool included in the linux image (write-edid depends on this) can set that bit to wp = on. But you'd need to know the bit and that takes a bit of trial-and-error. You could use a harmless edid mod to test this; if the edid changes then no harm is done, and if it fails then you've found the address of the wp-bit. The pin bridge/short mod has to precede this test, of course.
Don't have a SEC5448 (LTN184HT02-S01), so don't know what's what with this model, but upload some good photos of its pcb and we'll know soon enough.i_pk_pjers_i, Mr. Fox and CaerCadarn like this. -
I'm sorry but the sad truth is that there is no true fix as long as nVidia is giving drivers and third party software low level access, even with EFI (and obviously without it too).
i_pk_pjers_i and CaerCadarn like this. -
Guntraitor Sagara Notebook Evangelist
Too lazy to dig my thread about this but I'm happy to report that my screen was back and functional again. Prema,
aarpcard, Mr. Fox from Techinferno Ethrem and especially t456 thanks for sharing your knowledge with us. I was always hesitant to try the linux image flashing idea but after an hour of doing work my screen was able to obtain the correct EDID for my panel.
The files, tools and bookmarks inside the image are really organized and instructions were made with great clarity. I found my EDID on bus 1, address 50 x-referenced with the online hex edid checker and indeed i got the corrupt edid. Rewrote the correct one with the AUO file, after one restart and a brief ms-dos terminal window my screen was up and running.
You guys rock. Saved my system from costly RMA's.t456, TomJGX, CaerCadarn and 1 other person like this. -
Also had to disable the hyboot because it would cause freezing now and again for some reason as well.
***EVGA Precision X and Windows 7/8/8.1 and especially 10 bricking systems***
Discussion in 'Sager and Clevo' started by Ethrem, Sep 14, 2015.