Feedback to Clevo R&D Team: What's missing or broken in your Skylake laptops?

I second a poor connector choice. The mating surface on mine is so lose a stray wind will cause the barrel connector to disconnect.

Does anyone know a way to firm this connection up again?

 

If yoo talk about performance.... I'm sure Intel BGA will loose the battle.

Who would need the whole package (P870KM board + GTX 1070 MXM + 7700K) if your cpu blow up? Or the 1070? Or the MB?

 

Well, not likely. The boards would be about the same with the KM being slightly higher, the nVIDIA GeForce GTX 1070 would be essentially the same, and the Intel® Core™ i7-7700K is about $28 to $39 less than the Intel® Core™ i7-7820HK...so the bottom line is to replace them all would be about the same price.

However that misses the point. With BGA you have to replace everything if one component fails...board + GPU + CPU. With LGA you only have to replace the component that fails. It is highly unlikely that all three LGA components would fail.

Therefore LGA wins in both performance, and replacement cost.

 

And what would a new or used MB cost for Acer Predator 21X ? How easy is it to obtain a used MB from a limited model(300 units sold) on the web? How easy to obtain a new MB from Acer it's self? Let's say year 2019/2020? +10K right into the drain/toilet!!!

 

I'm actually in agreement about this. A P775 / P870 costs around 2000 - 3000 EUR at most if you don't factor in SSDs and HDDs and such, which are by design, replaceable and shouldn't be bought with the laptop.

That Predator 21X cannot be fixed and also costs a TON more.

 

Better Get Another

 

well you got your answer brother. we aint kidding or have nothing better to do than just troll bga. in terms of cost and performance, BGA loses edge on high end. i agree with you if i recommand a friend of mine who just need it for casual use or gaming, a 7700hq + 1060 all bga thin book would do at $1500, and just tell him to make sure pick up 3yrs warranty incase any component on mobo fails.

if its performance, you have got to ditch the idea that BGA is okay, its not mate.

L.O.L

 

A fairer comparison would be P75x MB with 7700K and 1070 MXM, as the P870 MB has 2x MXM slots and is more expensive as a result than the P775 and P75x MB. But yes, P650HS MB is cheaper with that spec, even though the 7820HK is a little more expensive than a 7700K in tray form.

I'm not arguing with your point, just expanding on it (!).

If you compare outright performance then yes of course no one can disagree with the LGA win. But if you compare "cost and performance", well actually it's pretty darn tight. Take a P751 with 7700K and 1070 vs P65x with 7700HQ and 1070.

- Around 15% price difference
- In CPU only performance (Cinebench etc) you 're looking at anything up to a 20% win for LGA, as we would expect
- In 3DMark for example, there's under 10% difference in performance
- In games, depending how well or badly coded they are / or how CPU intensive they are (yes if you play GTA or something then this CPU loading skews the overall average) there's still only really a max 10% difference.

I am only talking about cost / performance here, not longevity or upgradability etc.

If you add in a 7820HK then the cost/performance is very similar, but with a 7700HQ the price difference % is higher than the performance difference %.

 

Isn't 7700k more like 990 vs. 750 for 7700hq in Cinbench R15 ? This with stock clocks. And we know 7700hq is fully locked down. Aka No free performance gain for this chips. Not all oc, but you have still the opportunity later if you change your mind.

 

Unless the BGA machine comes with a warranty of course

 

7700K:


7700HQ:


From Clevo P65 and P75 chassis.

 

Yeah, I can see 7700K in this model don't run with Turbo clocks. Is this fixed now with firmware? Or can it hold Turbo clocks with changes in bios? Or even in CCC?

 

It was running single thread Cinebench at 4.5GHz and multithread CB at 4.2GHz, which is as expected for single and multi-core load. These benchmarks are from February 2017, I'm not familiar with all details of every product but would you expect to see something different - or are you refering to another issue?

 

I expected the processor could manage to run default 4.4GHz boost on all 4 in Cinbench. Turbo Boost shouldn't be disabled in multi threaded tasks like CBR-15. Cinbench ain't exactly P95 or OCCT. Would be tragic if processors had to run base clock frequency in benchmarks like Cinbench. Same as 7700hq should run 2.8GHz on all 4 cores.

 

- 15% price difference assuming no failure of component for at least yr or 2, or even 3 depending on how long people wish to keep the laptop, thats a hefty trade off.
- 20% just from a default stock clock difference.. not including bigger difference after overclock..
- 3DMark isnt a software i'd use daily lol but yes clock speed dont all transform into performance
- BGA laptops boy oh boy, so much problems that can come with it.

 

I want one where just the entire back section is nothing but fans and fins.

 

m18x as 3/4 vents p570wm is 4/4, nothing except PSU connector, rest all vents

 

P570WM, that's the one. Like that but with a massive vapor chamber under it.

 

I really wonder what associates "cooling fan" with "no air intake" for most laptops out there.

 

out of so many laptops ive been through, i find that mobo fails the most and closely followed by GPU. if GPU fail for me its likely because poor solder used, especially on the vram otherwise GPU is fine and dandy.

generally they still have vents just located else where, basically those type of cooling fan just try to cool entire system and use that heated up air to continue cool on exhaust.

 

I can see your point, but 2 core max TB is 4.4 and so is 4 core. Single core TB is 4.5 as before. These tests were on a delidded CPU, so temperature wasn't a limit. Then again, it will boost to 4.4 on 4 cores under some, but not all conditions. Wonder what unzipping or something less demanding than a benchmark/test gives us. Personally, I would see 4.2GHz on multi core load in a synthetic bench as acceptable - with everything set at stock.

 

Yes, you would give up the 2.5" bays and shove the fans back further towards the middle extending the fin area.

To cool something like the new 18 core CPU you would literally have to pull the fans to the front of the unit, have them at full depth and pushing along fins the depth of the rest of the machine to the back

 

There are already machines out there with no 2.5" drives, more/bigger fans with front to back airflow actually sounds awesome.

 

The cost of the machine in such a setup would ensure anyone is not worried about shelling out for one or more m.2 drive

 

Keep it LGA and MXM and I'm sure there are people here who would pay whatever they charge for it.

 

18 cores might be overkill for a laptop especially its unlocked 18 cores. let say 12 cores were to go into p570wm, it could remove it's 2ndary GPU slot and turn its heatsink for CPU, basically 3 fans working on a giant CPU heatsink should do the trick, it'll be capable of something like 4.2-4.4ghz overclock on 12 cores depending on the chip quality, while still retain 1 GPU slot and all the other HDD slots. m.2 shouldnt be a problem if they were to make the laptop a bit wider, or thicker.

 

count me in pls thanks

 

You were one of the people that came to mind.

 

Only having a single niche target market would make it DOA is the issue.

 

no way!! 1080 is already so powerful man, who needs two 1080 in sli lol, especially next gen GPU is around the corner its gonna be even more powerful.

having great CPU power isnt exactly niche is it? people always crave for more!

 

It's usually more about what people want than what they "need" - although I'm sure making a case for not needing to play games in 4K at 60+ FPS would still be debated.

 

Gotta chase them numbers.

 

looks like ive gotta buy clevo 6cores and hope that it can be upgraded to the 8 cores, then possibly purchase tornado F7 and another clevo 8 cores depending on how the heatsink is. havent upgraded since m18x and p570 days ivy bridge and SATA 6Gbps.

this new laptop will be a nice boost with new CPU/GPU and optane SSDs

 

I think its safe to say if more people wanted HEDT socket and single GPU then thats what the P870 would have been - instead of a gaming lappy where a quad core has been the upper limit for nearly a decade.

 

Typically people prioritise GPU horsepower at the higher end along with high per thread performance.

 

I'd say the workstation crowd would probably like more cores though.

 

With certain changes to the mainstream platform that's less of a concern of course.

 

True, getting more cores even in the i5/i7 lineup will probably keep more people with those chips instead of them going to HEDT.

 

To be fair that's also the sensible choice for those people. Best per thread performance and lowest platform cost.

 

There's always going to be that one that wants a 7980XE in a laptop.

 

And clock it so it's using the same power as an entire overclocked np9876...

 

I would not put it past some.

 

That would be amazing lol.

I'd love to have a 17" gaming laptop in a Milspec style form factor.

http://us.getac.com/notebooks/x500-server/features.html

Imagine what you could cram into something like that ^ if you stripped away the rugged bits and increased it's size to a 17" form factor.

To me, gaming laptops are supposed to be desktop replacements. I'm willing to sacrifice dimensions almost completely in favor of processing power.

As long as the laptop is significantly easier to move around compared to a full tower PC with a desktop monitor, keyboard, mouse, and UPS, I'm happy.

If I wanted something thin and light, then I wouldn't be gaming on it.

 

And then complain it either runs hot and the heatsink is insufficient

or that a mere (e.g.) 300W CPU firmware power limit is nerfing it

;p

 

if a company gonna put 7980xe into a laptop they gotta prepare a giant CPU heatsink with at least 3 fans working on it lol. clevo's dual 780w + converter would work just fine.

 

You would need an entire 987x based cooling system for the CPU....

 

offer a 20" or 21" wide screen laptop, with 5 fans. 3 for cpu and 2 for GPUs, problemo solved!!

 

Well XD

By that time , you're probably looking at a desktop

 

Some of us need the HEDT in a DTR. GPU horsepower is not necessarily a priority for professional developers - however, there are exceptions.

But what most people of my ilk are looking for are Octo core CPUs in a mobile form factor. Makes it a lot easier to head out to customer sites, give demos, work at home, etc. if the machine is easy to transport. self-contained, etc.

 

I see your design and I raise you...