Feeling the waters of Reflex Notebook and Sager. Looking for some input.

Right. I should establish right off the bat that I have only been recently made aware that Sager might be the ideal choice for me to suit my needs (I was aware they existed for a long while before this but never brought it upon myself to do some research). Thing is, I live in St, John's Newfoundland, so my shipping options tend to be...a tad bit more complicated.

That said, I've had people direct me to a company called Reflex Notebook for Canadian reselling of Sager's product. While searching around online (including here) has turned up far more great than bad on their dealings as an online retailer (and even then the worst I've found on them is reports on delayed automated emails and the fact that the website is prone to a couple spelling errors), I cannot find much on how well they are for after purchase dealings. Most comments I can expect to find are fresh-out-of-the-box reviews. The same goes for Sager themselves. Has anyone here had a problem with Sager product and thus a tale to tell of how well it was handled?

On that note, I have a few questions on warranty:

1. How good is Sager with honoring their warranty? Usually I spring for only a 1 year coverage if I know the manufacturer will be hesitant to accept a malfunction as caused by hardware issues rather than maltreatment after the first year. Similarly, in the event that it is used, how effective is their two way Canadian add-on coverage for the asking price of 31 dollars for one year? Assuming it covers everything, what kind of times should I expect being literally on the other side of the continent from Sager?
   
2. Is whatever make of monitor that Sager uses (I have a super glossy 1080p chosen for reference) any more prone than one would expect for dead pixels? A 30 day protection coverage is offered that I would otherwise not consider unless the risk involved is beyond minimal.
   
3. Reflex Notebook offers their own additional hassle free warranty for $70 that I otherwise would not consider. Just wondering if anyone has it on good authority to convince me it's worth the extra $70 spring.

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The model I've been looking at is this one:

http://www.reflexnotebook.ca/index.php/sager-notebooks/sager-np5175.html

With upgrades to an i7-2670, 8GB DDR3 1333 (currently listed as free due to a holiday special), IC Diamond Thermal Compound, Windows Home Premium and a standard carrying bag (also free via holiday special; anyone got any idea what kind of quality bag this is referring to?). I'm compelled to add in an AC Adapter as well as I cannot see any indication that the laptop will come with one anyways, and my universal adapter isn't working properly.

I'd love whatever input comes my way. I know both Sager and Reflexnotebook have a representative here, and I am tracking down both their posts for the sake of research (I'm glad to see Sager has a news sticky) but for all intents and purposes this topic certainly couldn't hurt. Sager has me sold on the quality of their materials and sticker price in exchange; it's how I can expect things to go afterwards that I'm curious about.


If you're curious, I'm primarily using it for work (which entails Photoshop, Illustrator and InDesign being used in tandem usually, as well as a browser, whatever music or podcast I choose to listen to in the background and Acrobat) and hobbies (Blender, Mudbox and games via Steam).

 

Well Sager themselves isn't the best place to buy a machine from. Therefore I don't know how good they are at warranty things, but usually a reseller has much more leverage than the consumer when it comes to getting stuff for free if it breaks. You seem to know what model you want already, but I would at least consider the NP8170 for power or the NP5165 for battery life and portability. Since you say it's for work and you are already considering Sager, I won't recommend the Alienware M14x instead. I do expect a flood of buy a Sager people any minute now though, whenever anyone says anything about gaming people get a bit overzealous for pro-Sager.

 

I think another Canadian reseller is ForTnax. I don't know anything more than their name though.

 

Oh yes, by all means if you have another model to pitch go for it. I'm not completely nailed down to a specific model, and in fact I was considering the NP5165 earlier. It is essentially the 5175's 15 inch variant, but given the choice I would spring for a larger physical screen (for design purposes) over portability, especially with such a small price difference. What kind of prolonged battery life and (much more importantly) heat distribution can I expect between the two models to swing the favor towards the 5165?

Portability is a minor issue for me. It mattered more back when I was a student in college, but even then I was happy with a 17" 9lb Toshiba Satellite.

As for gaming, I should make it clea this is not my primary gaming option. I'm an avid gamer, but for most PC titles I'll be using my other station; a home built desktop with a pair of 24" 1080ps hooked up to it. Gaming on this would be simpler side things I can play, or a temporary carry-over should I need to do some work on my other station.


I'll check ForTnax out. Right off the bat though I noticed that their prices are a bit elevated. Sager seams to be their bread and butter however.

 

I will like to ask you what is Newfoundland's GST and HST? This is important when you are ordering from a Canadian reseller because you do not need to pay HST and just pay GST. Unfortunately some of the provinces do not benefit from this like in Ontario it is 13% GST so no discount on it, but let say in Manitoba the GST is only 5% and HST is 7% I think so I get to save on 7% if I order from Manitoba. That is $140 in savings on a $2k laptop that can go to other upgrades.

I am also considering getting a Clevo laptop and am still stuck at which upgrades I hold most important since Reflexnotebook does not have the full spectrum of upgrades available as compared to let say Malibal. Therefore I will be asking if the upgrades are so important that I should go and pay a bit extra and get it from Malibal. An example is that Reflexnotebook no longer offers the Bigfoot killer wifi card due to back orders I think while Malibal still holds it. Screen options are different as well I believe. I am unfortunately not that good with DIY upgrading so buying from Reflex and then getting the card myself to do the upgrade just seems a tad bit scary. Oh and I cant seem to find the Bigfoot card on Newegg for the matter.

I also realized you brought up a good question on the warranty. When you buy from a reseller the warranty is still with Sager but when you buy from a builder like Malibal, your warranty is with Malibal. I wonder will this make a huge difference since lots of ppl will comment that Sager isnt great with customer service and even though your reseller is dealing with them, will this prove to be a problem? Not sure. Fortnax lacks customization and their stock option requires x2 500gb 7200rpm HDD, which I do not want and I only want 1 HDD and have the other slot open for a future SSD. Then again if you want that then they may become a viable option.

 

I forgot to add that when you order from the U.S. like from Malibal, you are paying for both GST and HST, so only from a Canadian reseller you get to save on the HST.

 

Newfoundland was harmonized in 1997, so I can't duck the 13% sales tax coming my way. The only provinces that still manage a GST and HST are the ones only now undergoing harmonization; the end goal is to eliminate the former tax entirely, as is the case here.

Tell me, how good is Malibal? I glanced over them prior but for some reason the cheaper Lotus computers eluded me. The Lotus P151HM1 just caught my interest as another alternative to Sager. I trust the 560 more than the 555, they're much more clear on what their various options entail, and the option to remove the Malibal branding from the computer up front is a very nice touch. But of course my same questions about aftermarket service and warranty quality still apply, especially for someone like me who is in non-continental Canada.

Malibal seems to lack a forum here on NR. Are they known under another brand as well that I should look for to find reviews on their service, or are they just esoteric enough to not warrant a forum's worth of discussion?

 

Hi Designopolis.

Thanks for taking us into consideration, let's clear some stuff up.

1- Sager's warranty is great, trouble shooting steps to figure out the issue and then taking the proper steps to correct the situation. We can handle any hardware issue except motherboards. It will have to be shipped back to Sager.

2- Dead pixel can happen on any monitor surface. If one should arise we'll help you take care of it, if we can't solve it over the phone then we'll take proper steps to get it cleared up, pun intended.

3- What the hassle free warranty entails is, for some reason if you have to ship the laptop back to us or Sager directly we will cover ALL shipping fees to and from. The Hassle free warranty is in concurrence with the Sager warranty not additional.

4- If you're going to be doing a lot of Photoshop and editing i'd recommend more RAM personally. And yes it does come with an AC adapter.

5- Shipping anywhere in Canada is the same price. The only thing that differs is if you're far from a major city it might take an additional day to get the laptop.

6- This is very important. We will NOT hide any fees from you. We'll tell you the final price you have to pay including taxes and brokerage, no surprises no hidden fees and no fine print.

 

They lack a forum because Lotuses are rebranded Clevos, hence they are the same machines you're looking at and discussing.

 

Oh, excellent! A representative.

Are you able to give me a rough idea which year most of your warranties are called upon and their success rate with Sager? I would imagine most are within the first year, and most of those go through without issue, but it'd still be nice to get a feel.

Is that with or without the 30 day guarantee? I can't check now, but I'll comb over their warranty later as to what mention there is of how the default Sager coverage handles dead pixels.

In concurrence with their standard warranty, right? I assume that means your hassle free lasts as long as whatever Sager warranty I choose. I also assume, however, that the hassle free option from Reflex and the Canada Two Way Ground Shipping Coverage Add-on from Sager would be redundant if both were selected?

8 is enough believe it or not, with some renovations to the suite's system usage efficiency in recent editions. Anything less than that won't really work, but 8 is a sweet spot for the adobe suite to work with. Glad to hear that is in fact an option for an additional adapter.

Far from it, St. John's is the biggest urban centre in the province. Problem is that ground shipping here means a boat ride, and of course they can easily be backed up themselves. Sager's shipping coverage is ground, I assume the hassle free is too?

Excellent, that should help me play my options.

Ah, so their product is known under another brand then. That would explain the readily available removal of the Malibal branding too. I thought the specs looked familiar.

I'll check Clevo's site later (I know I keep saying later; I'm hopping on here during my lunch break, sorry) to see what model closely matches the Lotus I was looking at, and see how their pricing matches up. Of course Reflex still has my preference as a seller as of now due to their Canadian focus, but I do have to point out that Malibal does get my attention for having the cleanest and most refined web presentation shown thus far.

 

Well, Malibal just decided to tack on their own branding which quite a few resellers don't necessarily do. A lot just resell Sagers and keep the Sager branding or remove it per request. As for the model numbers, the Malibal model numbers after their own assigned names are just the Clevo model numbers. Say, the Lotus P150HM is a Clevo P150HM too, so there is no need for matching different model numbers. Another company in the US that I believe uses their own branding is Mythlogic.

For all intensive purposes, I think all the resellers/builders put out a similar quality of Sager/Clevo product going by what most people experience. Most of the bigger ones here just act as Sager resellers rather than Clevo builders. One exception is the Clevo builder Mythlogic, which is known for more rigorous testing and quality control for which you pay a premium.

 

Designopolis,

If something is MAJORLY wrong with the laptop you'll know very quickly, well before the first month.

We'll try and help you regardless of in or out of warranty, customer service is the most important aspect of running a business. We don't sell and forget our clients.

Correct, in concurrence. If you get a 2 year Sager warranty then we'll match it and pay shipping both ways, even be the intermediary between you and Sager.

8 is enough for Photoshop for standard images, if you're going to edit huge images and do audio/video encoding then more RAM helps, so does CPU but for Photo editing 8 ram is nice, 16 is better, but not needed

Oh i wasn't insulting St-John's lol, just stating for anyone else who reads this thread. Yes ground coverage only.

I think i hit every question, if you have other don't hesitate to ask.

 

So this would mean the MALIBAL Lotus P151HM1 is equal to a CLEVO Lotus P151HM1, which according to the reviewer index is equal to a SAGER NP 8130. Reflex offers this model too, but without the option for a brandless exterior.

I have to ask, by the way: If I got this correct, Sager is essentially another Clevo rebranding, just like Malibal, right? Why exactly does this one banner have so many different brands covering the same product? From a marketing standpoint it hurts their equity to do this. Or does Clevo sell production rights to their product off to builders to rebrand? From what I can gather, Malibal is the latter and Sager is the former, right?

Yeah I've heard, but from what I gather they don't have a solid Canadian footing anyways. Plus, as you can gather I'm not exactly ready to throw down a ludicrous amount of cash on my first Clevo/Sager. I've never (yet) been a firm believer in letting mobility be your bread and butter, but I'm certainly open to letting Sager convince me otherwise.

As in the 555 starts artifacting. I know that, I'm curious on where the line gets drawn for longer term, smaller (but still compromising) errors.

Glad to hear it, sounds like a better investment than their own 2-way when investing in longer term warranty coverage.

We do a lot of in-house Large Format Printing at the studio I work for, but I do it far less commonly for my freelance work. Even then, 8 is good assuming you handle your files in a proper manner - in the event of some maddeningly large file, I can handle that on the 12GB station.

Mind you I'm not stubborn about it. I'm juggling a 12GB upgrade in the event of going with the 8130.

I'm about ready to start finalizing my options. I'll seek you out for input for Reflex as I go.

I have it down to a choice between ReflexNotebook and Malibal. I assume Malibal is handling USD figures on their site of course.



Anyways, I've compiled a comparison of the Sager NP8130 from Reflex and the Lotus P151HM1 from Malibal (Since I can't see a Malibal equivalent to the 5175). If any of this seems off (as in I have something selected that's elevating the cost of one over the other), let me know. Bold indicates areas where I selected an upgrade from the default, and the colors indicate a benefit one option holds over the other.



Lotus P151HM1

Display: 15.6" Full HD LED-Backlit Display features Matte Surface (1920 x 1080)
Processor: Intel® Core™ i7-2670QM, 6MB L3 Cache, 2.2-3.1GHz
Memory: (16GB) 16384MB, PC3-10660/1333MHz DDR3 - 4 SO-DIMM
Graphics Card: NVIDIA® GeForce® GTX 560M 1.5GB GDDR5
Hard Drive: 500GB 7200rpm 2.5" SATA 300
Optical Drive Bay: 8X Multi DVD+/-R/RW RAM Dual-Layer Drive
Operating System: Microsoft® Windows® 7 Home Premium; 64-bit
Wireless: Bigfoot Networks Killer™ Wireless-N 1102 802.11A/B/G/N LAN Card*
Cooling: IC Diamond 7 Thermal Compound, CPU & GPU
Branding: None
Warranty: LIFETIME Ltd. Labor and 2 Year Parts Warranty with 24/7 Support (CA) **
Extras: Standard Black Carrying Case ***

Cheapest Shipping: UPS Standard @ $75.68
Final Shopping Cart Price:$1,433.68
Paypal: Yes
Includes taxes: No ****
Includes Brokerage: No



Sager NP8130

Display: 15.6" Full HD LED-Backlit Display features Matte Surface (1920 x 1080)
Processor: Intel® Core™ i7-2670QM, 6MB L3 Cache, 2.2-3.1GHz
Memory: (16GB) 16384MB, PC3-10660/1333MHz DDR3 - 4 SO-DIMM
Graphics Card: NVIDIA® GeForce® GTX 560M 1.5GB GDDR5
Hard Drive: 500GB 7200rpm 2.5" SATA 300
Optical Drive Bay: 8X Multi DVD+/-R/RW RAM Dual-Layer Drive
Operating System: Microsoft® Windows® 7 Home Premium; 64-bit
Intel Centrino Advanced-N 6230 - 802.11A/B/G/N Wireless LAN + Bluetooth Combo Module*
Cooling: IC Diamond 7 Thermal Compound, CPU & GPU
Branding: Sager
Warranty: Sager 2 Year Limited Parts and Labor Warranty + Canada two way ground shipping service coverage add-on **
Extras: No (?) Standard Black Carrying Case ***

Cheapest Shipping: UPS Standard @ $50.72
Final Shopping Cart Price:$1,698.20
Paypal: No
Includes taxes: Yes ****
Includes Brokerage: Yes

*These adapters are only 5 dollars apart, I included it as an advantage for Malibal since I hear nothing but good things about Bigfoot Networks Killer.
**At face value, Malibal has the stronger warranty; 2 way shipping for free with unlimited labor and 2 years for parts at $79.00, while the simulated Reflex alternative costs around $132. However, I need input from Canadian based Malibal customers on how their quality to this warranty claim measures up.
***I'm not sure if Reflex offers this or not, since Reflex does not list the standard accessories (like the adapter) that you get anyways.
****I placed this down as a numerical benefit, but in reality the fact that taxes aren't being accounted for here just opens the window of opportunity for Customs to slam me if I order a Malibal product, easily for more than the $265 difference presented here.

 

Now that you have 5 posts, I suggest you send a PM to each of the vendors in whom you might be interested and see what they can do for you as far as price and features.

 

Yes! That's a good idea. Give them the quotes you have and see what they can do to match/better the others.

 

I had a lot of questions too in the beginning. Basically many brands that you know of do not manufacture their own laptop barebones, for example Quanta and Compal together manufactures 50% of the world's laptop. Quanta sells to HP , Fujitsu etc. I believe and Compal I forgot. There is a thread where everything is listed and you will be amazed because you probably never realized that they all come from the same place. Clevo used to manufacture for Alienware before Dell took over. It is like when you visit Superstore and think that you have a huge variety of selection but actually you are buying from maybe 3-5 big companies and that is it. Nothing is what they seem any longer and before a product reaches you there are a ton of middlemen I think.

From my understanding though is that Clevo based laptops are like the premium standard and they just seem to have less problems. How I know? Look at all the other forums and in the 1st page you probably find a ton of complains or discussions on something breaking/malfunctioning. From forum experience (experience of others), I also noted that many of your more popular brand names have bad customer service but that is not true for Clevo resellers (except Sager). Do not take any of my word for it and it is best to look through the forum and read every thread.

 

I haven't seen much complaint about Sager customer service either. Why did you single them out? Besides purchasing directly from their website, which I have not done much research in since it's not really a major option for me anyways. Of course there's still a ton of material for me to comb through since I even found the Sager. Clevo name as an option.

I dropped an email with Reflex about my de-branding interests, but specified that I meant the 5175. However, on reflection I think I should bill the NP8130 as my current contender, since:

1. More expansion options. I'm going to take a guess here that the 5175's motherboard has a memory slot limit that the 8130 does not share.
2. I heavily favor the 560 over the 555.
3. The 8130 has a much stronger following than the 5175 here and abroad. Much more reviews and much more activity regarding this model and it's clevo twin.
4. Defaults to a matte finish, which I've always wanted to try for myself.

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Of course I'm going to keep this warranty inquiry open to the end. Couldn't hurt. It's a matter of 30 dollars vs close to 80 (I don't plan to invest on more than a year's warranty here, on the grounds that what can last a year should last three) with the integrity of each warranty's coverage and satisfaction in question. Part of the problem of being Canadian; finding aftermarket testimonials means finding someone online from here, with the product, from the same retailer, with an older purchase AND with some error to which they could have put the warranty to the test.