Finally decided on my 8660 specs

After weeks of grueling research I've finally think I figured out the perfect configuration for myself -



-- 15.4" WSXGA+ "Glare Type" Super Clear Ultra Bright Glossy Screen (1680x1050)

-- Standard Dead Pixel Policy

-- Intel® P8600 45nm "Montevina" Core™2 Duo 2.40GHz w/3MB L2 On-die cache - 1066MHz FSB 25 watt

-- 4,096MB DDR3 1066MHz Dual Channel Memory

-- 200GB 7200RPM

-- 2GB Intel® Robson Turbo Memory II (maybe 4gb)

-- Windows Vista Home Premium 64-Bit Installed

-- 2 Year Parts & Labor Warranty 24/7 Tech Support




So there it is...what do you guys think? The only thing I'm concerned about is the 2.4ghz processor. People tell me that's more than enough to handle all the latest games, but if that's true then why is it that most of you seemed to go for the 2.53?

I was going to get vista ultimate until I realized that the only really beneficial thing it contains is the improved system backup. I was also going to go for the 320gb hd before realizing 200gb is probably much more than I'll ever use. I was gonna just max it all out, but I had to cut back so I could get the better warranty. I know the issues so far have been minor, but I still don't want to take any chances.

Basically my main goal was to stay under 2300 and this config comes out to 2303 so I'm close enough

should be ordering it in 1-2 weeks! Hopefully Sager's shipping load will have decreased by then.

 

The reason people went for the 2.53 because it is faster then the 2.4 Ghz as well as its the hgiest CPU option which has a 25W power consumption.

Get rid of the 2 GB Intel Robson memory, it's absolutly useless.

 

Drop the ram to the lowest it can go and buy your own.

 

Get rid of the turbo memory, and for now, drop the ram to 2gb 1sodimm, upgrade the processor to P9500 , and put $55 back into your pocket. DDR3 ram is WAY overpriced right now.. wait for the price to drop a little (maybe below $60 for a 2gb sodimm - likely going to happen soon), and then put another sodimm in. That way, you basically spend the same money, but get P9500 instead of P8600. If the P9500 doesn't interest you (I can more than understand that for most people who just don't need that extra speed), you can keep +/- $100 more in your wallet by waiting for the ddr3 price to drop . The reason so many people went with the P9500 is because it offers 6mb l2 cache, as well as being reasonbly priced and best you can get with 25w.

 

I'm getting a

-- 15.4" WUXGA+ (1920x1200)
-- Wifi A/G/N
-- Bluetooth

-- Intel® P9500 Core™2 Duo 2.53GHz w/6MB L2 On-die cache, 25 watt
-- 2048MB DDR3 1066MHz Dual Channel Memory (Crucial) 1 DIMM
-- 200GB 7200RPM (Hitatchi)

Including shipping I paid 2073. But I'm building it myself and I bought my components from 3-4 different vendors.

I figure I can add another 2 GB of ram for $100 at a later date. I could have gone for cheaper RAM, but in my opinion Crucial makes the best.

This price also does not include the price of the OS.

 

bring down the CPU to 2.2 Ghz if you want to because there is not much difference between 2.2 and 2.4 Ghz....

 

hmmm ok I think I'll go with -



-- 15.4" WSXGA+ "Glare Type" Super Clear Ultra Bright Glossy Screen (1680x1050)

-- Standard Dead Pixel Policy

-- Intel® P9500 45nm "Montevina" Core™2 Duo 2.53GHz w/6MB L2 On-die cache - 1066MHz FSB 25 watt

-- 4,096MB DDR3 1066MHz Dual Channel Memory

-- 200GB 7200RPM

-- Windows Vista Home Premium 64-Bit Installed



I Upgraded the processor and decided I can live without the warrranty. I don't know why but I'd rather not have to bother buying and installing new ram myself so I'm sticking with the 4gb.


that brings the total to a mere 2189.00

 

Get a larger drive that is not 7200rpm, because the larger drive will be same speed as 200GB because it will be higher density. Also the 5400rpm are cooler than the 7200rpm.

In addition, I am going to repeat everyone said above, drove the 4Gb Ram to 2Gb Ram, because you can buy them yourself much cheaper.

 

Really bad advice

You might save a few dollars...no more...and now you have support and warranty issues.

What happens if that memory you bought elsewhere fails at some time? Who do you call for support and/or warranty replacement?

This is a Sager, not a DELL. Sager's memory upgrade pricing is reasonable, not a ripoff.

 

the cache is the main reason

 

Installing RAM at a later time is really not that hard a thing to do; you just buy the right RAM stick and you pop it right into your extra ram slot in your laptop. Honestly wouldn't take you more than 5 minutes after you buy the ram to put it in yourself.

I'm going to add another echo here, but go with 2Gb Ram and save yourself some $$$!

 

More bad advice

Apparently people are still stuck on Turbo Memory 1.0 and have not studied the new Turbo Memory 2.0 features in the new Centrino 2 notebooks.

The BIG differences between the original Intel®
Turbo Memory w/1GB and the New Turbo Memory 2.0 w/2GB or 4GB

Intel® Turbo Memory (code named Robson) uses NAND Flash Memory to work with the Microsoft Windows Vista ReadyBoost and ReadyDrive technologies. It is a new low-latency, non-volatile memory cache between your system memory and your hard drive. It was designed to enable fast access to critical data and applications.

Well, that was the idea anyway.

Turbo Memory w/1GB (Ver. 1.0) on the original Centrino® systems was divided into 2 512MB slices with 512MB dedicated to Vista ReadyDrive, and 512MB dedicated to Vista ReadyBoost. It had its minor performance boosts under Vista if it was used to specifications, but for anyone with 2GB system memory or more its benefit was negligible…and disappointing.

With the launch of Intel® Centrino® 2, Turbo Memory got upgraded from Ver. 1.0 to Ver. 2.0 in 2GB or 4GB modules.

With the new driver version 1.7 you will see a great improvement in user control and performance. This new version now has the Intel Turbo Memory Dashboard. While 512MB will still be dedicated to Vista ReadyDrive the new Dashboard will give the user the option to select how the remaining 1.5 to 3.5GB of space should be allocated between Vista ReadyBoost and Intel® Pinning.

Intel® Pinning will allow you to drag and drop your most used applications or files into the Turbo Memory (e.g. the whole Office 2007 suite will only take up about 600MB) which will allow your pinned files or applications snap open much faster. It will remain in the module until removed from the Dashboard by the user.

This will make the remaining 1.5 to 3.5GB of space an internal Mini SSD for Vista ReadyDrive and the applications that you have chosen to “Pin” to Turbo Memory. Internal testing has shown this will provide a great performance boost in the application load time for the applications that have been pinned.

It’s quite a great alternate internal Mini SSD drive for a very affordable price of around $45 for 2GB or $90 for 4GB, without the hassle of using an external USB flash memory drive.

I love it when a plan comes together!

 

It is not bad advise to tell someone that they can add extra RAM after market. It's something that I would expect any reasonably intelligent person to be able to do. So don't let someone make you fearful of installing your own components. I personally prefer to build my own laptops and desktops. This way I get to decide exactly which components I want.

Regarding Warranty issues... If the memory fails at some time, take a look at Crucial's Limited Lifetime Warranty. Of course if you mess up the install and it breaks something, then yes your out of luck. So be prepared and read the Clevo M860TU's user manual. It's pretty straight forward. I've never even heard of someone installing RAM incorrectly and thereby breaking the RAM.

I've seen people do some really dumb things when building there own computers... I once saw a guy drill wholes in his motherboard because his case had a couple extra mounting brackets that were not to be used for that motherboard's form factor. If I recall, that person did in fact install his RAM properly.

 

Again... I don't know if telling a person they don't need Turbo Memory is bad advise, take a look at http://news.cnet.com/2100-1004-6188531.html which yes does seem to only mention a 1 GB version of the Turbo Memory. But also points out that a user would be able to see a similar benefit from an added SD, or USB stick. And then I'd point out that 32 GB USB stick is selling for $90... which happens to be the same amount that a 4 GB Turbo Memory Module is selling for. RJTech being the only retailer I know that is selling the 4GB module.

 

Donald (paladin) is actually correct.

For the most part, aftermarket may be cheaper, but most of the time, Sager resellers are giving you the best prices for the memory options... near cost at times..... since they do not have much margin.

And this is DDR3 we are talking about... I doubt you can find significant.. or even marginally good prices for for notebook DDR3.

If we were talking about other OEMs/brands like Dell, Alienware, etc.... then they would be ripping you off on RAM (or other upgrade) prices... which is when its a good idea to get aftermarket memory.

Do your math & research before giving advice.

 

Welcome to the forum scotte_0001

I appreciate your feedback, but you are apparently missing the point about installing your own memory. Sure, it is easy to do, and some people may even enjoy doing it, but as even the OP themselves pointed out they are not comfortable doing it, and believe it or not...most people feel the same way.

Further, my reference was not regarding how easy it was to install, it was the difficulties it creates should it fail, particularly when you have a warranty on your laptop together with Lifetime 24/7 DOMESTIC Toll Free Customer Service. When you have a problem with your laptop you want to be able to call for help, but who do you call? Do you call our Support Team only to find out it is the memory you bought somewhere else that is causing the problem? How about if you need to send it in for warranty repair only to find out the real problem was the memory you bought somewhere else?

So, let's say we can diagnose that one of the two pieces of memory has failed. With your Sager support and warranty, if you are comfortable installing the replacement yourself, we will immediately ship you a new piece to install and you simply return the failed piece in the same box that the new one came in, and we pay the shipping both ways. If you are not comfortable installing it you are in a real pickle now, but with our warranty you simply return the laptop and we will do it, and we will pay the shipping both ways.

Now, if it is the 3rd party memory that has failed, when you get off the phone with us you need to contact your memory vendor for a warranty replacement. Will they do an advance replacement like we do? Will they pay for shipping both was like we do?

All this hassle so you can save a few dollars??? I hold my position...it is bad advice

 

Well, my response was to the poster that I quoted that said Turbo 2.0 was worthless. This is false, and therefore bad advice.

As I said in my post that you quoted...regarding version 1.0 "...its benefit was negligible…and disappointing." The only support you give for your counter argument is a link to a discussion of 1.0...yes, we have already established that was a plan that didn't come together.

You also quote prices on using the far more clunky external memory sticks that do not have Intel® Pinning, and even if cheaper, are not as convenient nor are they as helpful.

Further research would also show you that many manufacturers and resellers are offering 2GB and 4GB Turbo Memory pieces...including Sager and PowerNotebooks.com.

And finally, look to Gophn...he has good advice for you

 

Very Well... lets do our math and research before giving advise....

@ www.powernotebooks.com/ we have a upgrade from 2Gb (1Dimm) to 4GB(2Dimms) costing a total of $120 extra... if my math is correct that means that powernotebooks.com wants $60 per GB of RAM

@ www.crucial.com we have a 2GB (1dimm) selling for 90.99 and a 4GB(2dimms) selling for $181.99... again if my math is correct... that means that crucial is selling DDR3 (PC3-8500) for $45.49 per GB of RAM.

These prices do not reflect shipping or tax.

To be fair, I do agree that $120 extra for 2 more GB of RAM is definatly not a rip off. But a potential savings of $60 for 4GB... is still a savings. And if your working on a budget, then it makes more sense to spend the money on the components that are difficult to install in a laptop (such as a CPU or GPU), and less money on components that you can potentially upgrade at a later date, when prices either start to fall, or when you have more money to spend.

 

My experience with patients tells me that don't explain things, or the patients get more suspicious and become more distrustful of what you tell them.... Humans are suspicious creatures never trust what people says and want to act independently to prove self worth ...

 

As far as that posting about it being worthless... I'll agree with you. It's not worthless, but it has yet to show a good bang for the buck. And i'll remind you that as I said in my post "telling a person they don't need Turbo Memory is [not] bad advise".

 

@scotte_0001

Not to beat a dead horse...but...(you know the old saying...you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him think)

You can only buy the Sager NP8660 with 2GB or 4GB. So, you buy it with the lowest offered at 2GB in a single piece and now you want to buy another 1x2GB somewhere else because you want to save significant money.

The 1x2GB at the link you posted is $98 plus tax and shipping, so say something around $109 with standard shipping (unless you want the free 7-12 day shipping and then it is around $105).

The Sager upgrade to 4GB is $120, no tax or shipping, and no installation, support or warranty hassles.

I don't think many people would want to expose themselves to the installation, support, or warranty hassles (particularly paying for shipping should they have to get it replaced) to save $15 when they are buying a Sager NP8660 for around $2,000...really, come on, do you?

 

That exact phrase was on my mind.

If the OP has already expressed reservations over buying additional ram and installing it himself then the entire argument is moot.

So stop.

 

So how does this Lifetime 24/7 DOMESTIC Toll Free Customer Service work?
Do they pay for shipping both ways for the rest of my lifetime?
Do they replace my broken RAM for free, for the rest of my lifetime?
Do they not charge me for the time it takes for a tech to figure out what's wrong w/ my computer, for the rest of my lifetime?
When the tech figures out that its not my RAM that is the problem, but that I have a virus, do I still not need to pay for shipping or the tech's time?

I've just never seen a warranty that lasted for more than a year, so you can understand my confusion.

Do you know that saying about teaching a man to fish? Lets say there is this man who doesn't know how to fish. And he's hungry and he only has $5 which happens to be enough money for a BigMac or a fishing pole. And then he gets advise from Ronald telling him that fishing is very hard and should only be performed by trained fishermen. And then he meets a fishermen who says, yes there is a risk that you wont catch any fish today, but if you'd like to know how to fish then here is a how you do it...

Which advise would you want? Which do you think is better? An opinion from Ronald who sells BigMacs or a Fisherman who can occasionaly catch a fish.

 

scotte, don't even try. Certain people here are very good with the moderators. Cross them (asking them questions they can't properly answer) and you will be taken care of.

Just accept what certain individuals are saying and end it there. Even if its to benefit their own pocket.

 

Sorry bout that, started that last post before you posted this one... and didn't post until now

But I'll stop, I didn't really to start anything...

 

I admire your passion.

But not really the right place.

Or person

 

I hate to continue splitting hairs with you, but your comment is non responsive. I never suggested that telling a person they don't need Turbo memory is bad advice...I only said that saying it was worthless was bad advice.

As for Turbo 2.0 being worth the bang for the buck, just ask anyone who uses PhotoShop, or any other large application that seems to take forever to open, whether being able to use Intel® Pinning (on internal NAND Flash) to get them open much faster is worth a few dollars. Professional people value productivity, as do most computer users including starving students, and yes, even fishermen.

 

I use the entire CS3 Suite Paladin. If the turbo memory really helps the performance that I know. I will definitely include it in my review.

 

We will enjoy hearing about it. How big (MB) is the entire Suite?

To give it a good test, time how long it takes to open the Suite before you pin it, and then how long it takes after you have pinned it.

 

I havnt used full CS3 yet, but i will. If the time difference is indeed much, i may upgrade to one too.

 

You know, I was having this on my mind too before ordering my 860tu. (Kobalt computers).
Save some money now or pay for it later.
Mind you I am talking about prices in europe where they are much higher.
By getting the 2GB sodimm and then buying one from say amazon, I would save an amazing 10-12% Well, sort of. I would
1)have to pay for the shipping of the memory which though not much is not free.
2)spend 15 min (or about that) to install the memory.

If I was in the UK the above would save me about 5 GBP.
I don't think it is worth the trouble. It would save me 5 GBP out of almost 1500.

Since I am in Greece I would...not be able to buy it since no one sells DDR3 SODIMMs yet. I bet the price wouldn't be lower than in the UK. So, I would have to order it from there. My guess is I would pay more for shipping than if I was in the UK...

We are talking about 5 pounds or $10, out of about 1500. For what? To prove to myself that I managed to get a good deal? I am not rich or well off, but going to all the trouble to save 5 pounds is just...too much.

This is just me though.

 

Sorry for continuing this. If you do not feel like reading on about my opinions for self installing ram, please ignore this post.

I'm afraid I have to disagree with you here. While Sager definately offers reasonable ram prices, DDR3 ram prices as of now is ridiculously high. Unless it is absolutely needed at this time, waiting it out would likely be a better idea.

If the memory does fail at some time, most companies (like the OCZ ram I just recieved yesterday) actually offer lifetime warranty on ram, which would be actually better warranty than that offered from Sager.

In any case, the memory that newegg.com sells is @ $86 for a 2gb stick against the $120 from Sager, while offering better warranty at the same time.

To those who fear that upgrading memory is a difficult task, watch a simple Youtube video, and you will realize how easy it is. Really a matter of gently pushing in and then pushing down

While we may spend $2000 on a notebook, that doesn't mean we wouldn't mind taking around one minute to order the ram and another minute or two to pick up the ram and install it. At most, another 5 minutes to watch a youtube video telling you how to install ram. That totals 7-8 minutes, while you can save +/- $20 now, and more if you were to wait. So unless your job earns you more than $160/h and that time you install ram can be better used earning money. In addition, the experience from installing ram for the first time will lead to more efficient installation of ram in the future (no more youtube videos).



About the turbo memory: sorry if I made it sound bad, but is there any further information about the speed of this stuff? I read one of your posts saying its like a mini SSD, but SSDs really vary in performance, and $22.50 per gigabyte (turbo memory) is way higher than that of many high end SSDs.

 

See this post http://forum.notebookreview.com/showpost.php?p=3821168&postcount=21

"As a side note... I just pinned Photoshop to the Turbo Memory... Anybody who has used photoshop before knows it normally takes a little bit to load... Now: About 1-2 seconds."

 

How fast does it run with Turbo memory disabled?

 

^--^
youdontneedtoknow

Sorry, I couldn't help it

 

No problem paladin! I know the photoshop usually run slow on my old laptop, 1-2 seconds is really fast, though I would like to know how fast it is compared to the disabled state of the Turbo memory on the NP8660.

I will also run solidworks 2009 on my new laptop when it is out, I want to know how much of a difference the Turbo memory will make. Maybe I will consider a upgrade.

 

I agree. While the argument in this thread was "buy from Sager/reseller vs buy from someone else for $15/GB less" the real argument should be "buy 4GB now when you probably don't need it vs wait for 2GB+ to be way cheaper in a year." Buying an extra stick of ram right now from somewhere else IS cheaper, but only slightly so (and it does introduce possible brand conflict problems and the like), so I don't recommend it for most people, and Donald's right that it's bad advice to tell someone (who may likely be on a newbie side of notebook purchases) to buy from somewhere else if they feel they NEED 4GB (a big IF personally, but ymmv).

On the other hand, personally, if a 1GB option was available from resellers, I'd probably take that and buy ram somewhere else as well, or wait on it, because I'm on a tight budget. If you have money to spare, I don't see the harm in giving a decent reseller like PNB or Xotic the extra profit in trade for the convenience of not having to think about buying ram now vs the future or what brand of ram is reliable etc.

I also would not buy Turbo memory because of the price <-> memory ratio, but might upgrade in the future. If you're not cheap/don't like to save every penny where you can, and use large programs a lot, buy some I guess with your notebook (but then again this is the type of person that considers $450 to be a good deal for a Blu-ray option on a notebook currently, while, imo, it's not).

A side question about Turbo memory, since Donald's reading the thread and will likely know: can this memory be used for booting up an OS? I assume so and have assumed as much from reading a bit about it. This seems to be the best use of the memory in notebooks, as speeding up a lengthy vista bootup would be handy. If so, this is a better reason to recommend buying Turbo memory than the "you can open photoshop 10 seconds faster!"

 

Yes, booting up Vista is optimized by the portion of Turbo Memory that is allocated to the Vista ReadyDrive function.

 

Here is my two cents on Turbo Memory from personal experience.

I got the 2Gig module (4 gig wasn't an option) with my NP8660.

I pinned Photoshop to the dashboard. Photoshop now loads in 1-2 seconds instead of 15-25 seconds. I would consider that an improvement personally.

 

On my current system now, photoshop takes 40 seconds to 1 minute to load up and become useable.

Turbo memory for me definitely. Legacy, how much RAM of the turbo memory does photoshop take?

 

ah! thats good to know. good thing my reseller uses only OCZ ram

 

Virtually all memory is warranted for lifetime, so even after your Sager warranty has expired you can still go to the memory manufacturer for warranty.

Similarly the hard drive warranties are usually for 3 years, with Seagate and some Western Digitals being 5 years...so there too you can go to the manufacturer after the Sager warranty has expired.

However I still stand on my position that if your purpose is simply to save a few dollars in the beginning, it does not make sense to do because the savings is way too small, while the potential shipping, support and warranty hassles during the Sager warranty period just aren't worth it.

 

I should note that I have Photoshop Elements 6.0 and not CS3 installed. Elements also has a VERY slow load time typically. However.. Elements is still a powerful program and is basically photoshop for people that aren't using it commercially. It is using 380MB of my 2Gig Turbo Memory (I thought it would use more) I can't see the full Photoshop using more then 500MB. If I'm in a period when I'm playing with Adobe Premiere a lot, I will also pin it for sure.

I suppose if you're a patient person.. it's really trivial, but personally.. I like the speed.

The one thing I'm still not 100% sure about in the Turbo memory is how to Allocate it. From the sounds of things.. the memory that isn't used for pinning programs is used to help boot Vista faster. If that's the case though... As you make programs load faster, you make Vista load slower. I'm not sure if that's right though. Basically.. is there any reason not to use all 100% of the Turbo Memory for pinning?

I just pinned Word/Exel/Powerpoint. Powerpoint opens instantaniously.

 

Please read my post #12 in this thread.

Particularly this paragraph:
"With the new driver version 1.7 you will see a great improvement in user control and performance. This new version now has the Intel Turbo Memory Dashboard. While 512MB will still be dedicated to Vista ReadyDrive the new Dashboard will give the user the option to select how the remaining 1.5 to 3.5GB of space should be allocated between Vista ReadyBoost and Intel® Pinning."

So, pinning more does not slow down the booting optimization (ReadyDrive) since 512MB is permanently allocated for that purpose.