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    Ghosting Keyboard?? / NP8268 thoughts (advices)

    Discussion in 'Sager and Clevo' started by matolati, Aug 2, 2014.

  1. matolati

    matolati Notebook Consultant

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    I was about to buy a NP 8268 / P150sm-A from xotic, when I heard that Sager keyboards have ghosting problem, like all of them.

    Is this still happening? I mean, It's almost hard to believe that a gaming notebook company would send their notebooks with a keyboard that can not recognize some set of keys pressed simultaneously. It's completely amateur, actually. I also heard people saying that when they play Bf4, they can't run and throw a nade at the same time, because the keyboard wouldn't recognize it (lol).

    Also, what's your thoughts on the NP8268? Good cooling? Terrible fans? I wanna hear it from people that actually have a sager! There is a lot of speculation out there.

    Thank's guys!
     
  2. Ashen-Shugar

    Ashen-Shugar Notebook Evangelist

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    I have the 8258-S.

    I've had zero ghosting, and I type about 160wpm.

    The cooling on my system is very nice. in 22c ambient temperature, without a laptop cooler, even with demanding games (Borderland 2, Skyrim, Witcher 2 in uber mode, Dead Island, etc), my GPU doesn't get much above 85c, and the CPU rarely if ever breaks 78c. The fans don't even ramp up much.

    Fan noise is negledgible. Seriously. When you surf the web or youtube or basic day to day, the fans don't even spin up. Absolutely quiet. When playing games, the fans are not that noticeable. Absolutely not the 'jet engine' that some people say.
     
  3. matolati

    matolati Notebook Consultant

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    No Ghosting? That's some great news. You must be the only who doesn't have that problem, though. Can you take a shoot? Try pressing Q+E+W+G at the same time, lets see what happens then.
     
  4. Ashen-Shugar

    Ashen-Shugar Notebook Evangelist

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    That's not really ghosting, other than coming close to the 'definition'. That's a limitation of the interface the keyboard is hooked into.

    The keyboard only recognizes a given number of key presses and only in certain mapping areas. It's not like we're using an IBM mechanical keyboard here.

    For normal typing, or even the majority of games, it's not really a big issue.

    If for whatever reason, you need to press a weird combination of keys like that, then likely yes, you'll run into an issue (the issue of the last key not being recognized as pushed)

    I'm not familar with any game (or any application even) that would require pressing those 4 keys in particular. Or even those close therein.
     
  5. matolati

    matolati Notebook Consultant

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    Someone told me that if you press W+E, then the keyboard woudn't recognize F,G or V. This is ridiculous, if it's true. Almost all fps, if not all of them, need those keys pressed.
     
  6. Ashen-Shugar

    Ashen-Shugar Notebook Evangelist

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    That's correct, and it's how the keys are layed out for diodes as well as the connector to the keyboard.

    Couldn't the keys be redefined if that was the case?

    Nearly every game allows key redefining.

    I tend to loathe the qwe keys for movement anyway and tend to use arrow keys.
     
  7. matolati

    matolati Notebook Consultant

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    Dude, do you see the problem, here ? They made a gaming keyboard that can't be used for games. lol
     
  8. Ashen-Shugar

    Ashen-Shugar Notebook Evangelist

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    Only some games apparently, as I play a very wide variety of them and have never ran into this problem.
    Borderland 1 - No problem
    Borderland 2 - No problem
    Skyrim - No Problem
    Fallout 3 - No Problem
    Fallout NV - No Problem
    Supreme Commander - No Problem
    Supreme Commander Forged Alliance - No Problem
    Supreme Commander 2- No Problem
    Bioshock 1 - No Problem
    Bioshock 2 - No Problem
    Bioshock Infinite - No Problem
    Witcher - No Problem
    Witcher 2 - No Problem
    XCOM Enemy Unknown - No Problem
    XCOM Enemy Within - No Problem
    Planet Explorers - No Problem
    Dragon Age - No Problem
    Dragon Age Origins - No Problem
    Dragon Age 2 - No Problem
    Dead Island - No Problem
    Dead Iswland Riptide - No Problem
    Left 4 Dead - No Problem
    Left 4 Dead 2 - No Problem
    Dishonored - No Problem
    Wasteland 2 - No Problem
    Neverwinter Nights 2 - No Problem
    S.T.A.L.K.E.R Chernobyl- No Problem
    S.T.A.L.K.E.R Clear Skys - No Problem
    S.T.A.L.K.E.R Pripyat - No Problem
    R.U.S.E - No Problem
    Horizon - No Problem
    Sin of Solar Empire - No Problem
    Galactic Civ 2 - No Problem
    Torchlight 2 - No Problem
    Metro 2033 - No Problem
    Mount & Blade - No Problem
    Mount & Blade Warbrand - No Problem
    Mount & Blade Fire & Sword - No Problem
    Myst V - No Problem
    Riven - No Problem
    Risen - No Problem
    Risen 2 - No Problem
    State of Decay - No Problem
    Batman Arkham City - No Problem
    D&D Daggerdale - No Problem
    Kingdom of Amalur - No Problem
    Mafia 2 - No Problem

    Soo, saying a blanket statement of 'a gaming keyboard that can't be used for games' is being rather... incorrect.

    It'd be more accurate to say it can't play some games without changing the keyboard layout of specific keyboard combinations.

    Please don't assume just because it can't do rare and cumbersome combinations that it invalidates all games from being played. I think I proved otherwise above.


    I don't play BF4 though, and apparently it's the one people nitpick keyboards the most on *shrug*.
     
  9. matolati

    matolati Notebook Consultant

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    Yeah, you may be right, I did generalize though. But you should agree with me that ghosting keyboard is a pretty amateur mistake, that could be easily fixed.

    I notice that you have a 8258-S with a 880M, which is pretty similar with the NP8268 that I was talking about. Can you give me your thoughts on your notebook? In specific, about temperatures, fan noise and throttling on your gpu? If you could, that would be very helpful to me.

    Thanks.
     
  10. Ashen-Shugar

    Ashen-Shugar Notebook Evangelist

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    Sure thing.

    First with the keyboard, granted, it'd be nice if they fixed it, amazingly so if they achieved a perfect 1 to 1 like the old IBM keyboards of old. But while that is technically possible, it's not realistically feasible as that tends to ramp up the cost, fairly significantly, on the keyboard costs. Maybe if they gave an option that people could purchase as an add-on for better keyboards, it may work. Some people may be willing to spend that additional $200-500 a keyboard, I probably won't :)

    The 880M runs a bit warm on demanding games, in a 28c ambient room, Borderland 2, ran about 91c on the GPU and 81c on the CPU with everything maxed, but this was also with 6 hours of playing the game. Still well within the tolerance and the ambient room temps were pretty warm.

    In a normal room temp (22-23c) Borderland 2 doesn't get above 82c on the GPU and 77c on the CPU.

    I also have a laptop cooler just because the extra cooling is always a nice peace of mind. With the addition of the cooler, the GPU never really gets much past 80c and the CPU tends to hover in the mid 70's when under load.

    I'm sure running something insane like furmark will still hit the high 80's and low 90's for the GPU, because it's just what it does.

    But for even demanding games, the temps are more than fine and I'm very happy with the system. The temperature of the top/bottom are also comfortable to touch even with it under load, so you don't have to worry about frying your groin.

    As for fans, it's usually pretty quiet. For normal day to day use, the fans actually never even spin up, so it's absolutely quiet. It also tiers up on the fan so it's relatively quiet even when under load. I've only had it hit max fan once, and that's in the above 28c room and it only hit it for a moment until the GPU cooled down to the 80's again then it stepped back down.

    The fan on max is noticeable, but I'd not compare it to a jet engine or anything annoyingly loud. I can still hear normal TV over the fans or play a game with moderate noise on the speakers and drown out the fans just fine.

    The GPU I've not really seen throttle much if at all, but I've also not really looked at it in doing so.

    I just got done playing Wasteland 2 (which for whatever reason tends to spike the GPU and CPU -- Though do note the game is still Beta and likely not optimized... at all...), and even with those, my CPU didn't get above 82c (broken down with the 4 cores as: 82c, 76c, 73c, 75c) and my GPU didn't get above 80c.

    While idle, the CPU tends to hover between 38-45c (depending on what background tasks you have). The GPU with optimus isn't even used unless required, but I've seen 'lows' on the GPU measure in at 28-33c.

    For loudness, for comparison. My old laptop was an Asus G51JX-X1, and that was noticeably louder with fan noise than the Sager I have currently is.
     
  11. Meaker@Sager

    Meaker@Sager Company Representative

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    Adding keyboard options is difficult as due to production numbers you would just work on the stock keyboard.
     
  12. mrham

    mrham Newbie

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    getting a sager, already got a keyboard whew