Help me find a reliable desktop replacement

Hey everyone,

I know there is a thread "What Notebook Should I Buy?", but I'm mostly decided on Clevo, so I thought I would post here.

I need a reliable desktop replacement which would run for 10 hours a day and not melt or break in any other way. I will use it for windows programming with IDE using real-time code analysis and compilation, so I need the best processor I can get.

Will buy in EU
Budget: €3000
Processor: best I can get
Screen: 17"
Dedicated GPU: not required
16GB RAM
I have my own SSD

I also have a few questions about Clevo laptops in general.
1. Does it matter which chassis I choose with same components? Is it only about cooling/design or there is something more?
2. What are top ~5 European resellers with best customer support and warranty I can rely on?
3. Is it possible to use desktop grade processor in a laptop without it having overheating issues?
4. Can I run Linux on Clevo?

 

Clevo DTRs are geared more toward gaming. The P870KM is available with a full-desktop CPU, and its cooling is very good. At the same time, it weighs about 5.5 kg and comes with a powerful GPU that you won't really utilize. There's the P775DM3, which is less costly but its cooling is not as good.

I hate to direct people away from Clevo because they are excellent machines, but in your usage case, I would strongly encourage you to go with a business-class workstation. The new Dell Precision 7720 is available with a Xeon processor, a wider variety of screen options, on-site support, and you can even get one with Linux pre-installed. It'll also be more portable and come with a much better built-in keyboard than anything Clevo has on its top-range desktop replacements.

Should you still go with Clevo, the top two resellers in the EU would be @XMG or @John@OBSIDIAN-PC. Both companies should take good care of you.

 

Thanks for the advice.

How does it compare with P77*dm*-g? From the pictures, P77*dm*-g seems thicker and one would think it would have better cooling. Or cooling doesn't have much to do with thickness?

If I go with dell, I would get a slightly worse processor. Xeon E3-1535M v6 3.1-4.0Ghz instead of for example i7 7700k with 4.2-4.5ghz. Or do you think there wouldn't be a big difference in the real world outside of benchmarks?

 

Dimensions and weight of the P775DM3:

And the P870KM:

If you're going to be crunching numbers for 10 hours a day, I would go with the Xeon because it's designed for workstations and maximum reliability.

 

I'm just wondering what specifically is better in Xeon? I get reliability - it might crash once a month instead of say i7 once a week. My work machine is not a production server so I don't really care if I have to restart a computer once a week. Is there something more I don't know? Is i7 so unreliable it would crash multiple times per day ?

 

The benefit of Xeons are that they are capable of running ECC RAM as well as also having more more Cores and Hyperthreads for higher overall performance.

Both CPU's are reliable in terms of not failing for no reason at all. I have a 6700K and have had zero random crashes in my 18months of owning this Clevo. The only crashes I have had are due to voltage which is from my own tweaking.

 

I would be choosing from Xeon E3-1505M v6 / Xeon E3-1535M v6 or i7 desktop processors. Both have the same amount of cache, I don't need ECC RAM and i7 is overclockable and is faster out of the box. Do I miss something or i7 seems to be a clear winner in this case ?

 

If you don't need ECC RAM and wont benefit from the extra cores, the i7 7700K may be a perfect fit for you.

 

If I read it right there are no extra cores: both Xeon E3-1505M v6 and Xeon E3-1535M v6 have 4 cores and 8 threads - same as i7 7700K.

Btw I see from your signature you own Clevo P770DM-G. Have you tried working on it all day? How are the temperatures ? @saturnotaku mentioned P870KM has better cooling, do you agree? Are there any benchmarks to show it?

 

I am not sure of the temperatures of the P870KM, perhaps @D2 Ultima could help on that one.

My P770DM-G is quite cool with the 6700K, I am not sure the temperatures of the 7700K in comparison to the 6700K though I assume a little hotter.

It depends on the workload you will be running, the ambient temperature and what fan profile you will be using be able to estimate temperatures based on other users' experiences.

Here is 4.6Ghz OC pegged at 100% with max fans. https://puu.sh/q1Pb1/63ead49264.png

Note: My CPU is not delidded and I use IC Diamond thermal paste. Better thermals can be achieved by delidding and use of liquid ultra or another comparable liquid metal paste.

 

CPU cooling in a pure CPU stress environment will always be better on the single GPU models. The heat is spread across a shared heatsink, which if making proper contact, will outpace the P870 models entirely.

Once you start to stress both CPU and GPU however, there is more difference. The 970M does not add much significant heat though under simultaneous stress, so @Plur has a good overall experience at most any turn.

On the other hand, if you were to get a P775DM3 or P750DM2 with a pascal chip and Kaby Lake chip, it would be a rather different story. Both chips are hotter, and Kaby Lake almost requires a delid to be decent (the TIM is exceptionally bad; worse than Haswell's initial line). Still, if heavy CPU stress is all that you want, go for it. Take a simple 1060N and the 7700K and you are good to go.

I 100% wholeheartedly recommend and suggest OBSIDIAN-PC over any other UK or EU retailer of Clevo notebooks. I have nothing against the other retailers specifically, but OBSIDIAN will lap the heatsinks, delid the processor and apply liquid metal underneath, make sure your heatsink fit is good, and apply non-stock thermal pads to fit the heatsink for best contact. Without extra cost to you. No other retailer does this except for HIDecolution (american; to my knowledge won't lap heatsinks either), so I simply can't suggest outside of those two.

Sent from my OnePlus 1 using a coconut

 

Thank you, @ D2 Ultima that's very informative. Also thanks for recommending OBSIDIAN-PC. They also provide lifetime labor warranty btw.

 

I was interested in this claim and decided to ask @Mr. Fox on the existing thread on P7XX VS P870. The answer is as follows:

I don't mean to start a war, but I don't know much about hardware side of things and want to make a good decision. If anyone else has an opinion, please share.

 

Well it's really simple. The P7 series has two fans and a large, shared heatsink, when if the GPU is idle, the CPU can remain very cool.

The P8 series has one heatsink and one fan for the CPU. There is a way to connect the vapor chamber to the CPU heatsink, but I don't think the thermal transfer is that much.

I would say if you apply all the cooling upgrades we can do (Delid, possibly liquid metal, repadding, making sure contact is good, soldering shim if needed, etc) which OBSIDIAN-PC does (except LM between IHS and HS) then in a pure CPU-stressed environment with max fans, there would be better cooling on the P7 series.

Once you stress the GPU however, this cooling benefit goes out the window, and Mr. Fox really dislikes the shared heatsink between the CPU and GPU on the single GPU models. But in your specific usage case, I think it's a benefit rather than a detriment.

@Mr. Fox what do you think? In his specific usage case (he'll be using a 1060N and almost never putting any load on the GPU at all) I think the shared heatsink model would benefit him. Or is the vapor chamber connection to the heatsink in the P8 models that much better?

 

After having a P7 and experiencing the unified heat sink abortion personally I have no intention of ever owning another one. I got by OK by benching on AC, but without AC cooling everything was a challenge with an overclocked CPU.

Every example I have seen the CPU temps in a P7 are not as good as a P8. I am against unified heat sinks and view the design concept as flawed. Until the day comes that laptops are manufactured with extreme precision to aerospace tolerances and no effort is made to keep the form factor thin and light I think it is a bad idea. The only reason the dual GPU vapor chamber works reasonably well is due to its mass. I do not even like the vapor chamber joining both GPUs, but with one GPU it is so massive it works extremely well. For dual GPU it would be better having discrete vapor chambers. My P750ZM had excellent GPU temps and the CPU temps sucked. Since CPU performance is the focus for this customer I think the P8 is absolutely a no brainer.

 

So even CPU-related benchmarks (with no GPU stressed) was such an issue?

Though remember that the 4790K is a lot hotter than Skylake and Kaby Lake is. @Plur on the other hand has no delid and is just using ICD and in CPU-related benchmarks she can hold 4.6GHz on her 6700K at 1.25v without even hitting 80c, in australian weather.

I just think that with the work @John@OBSIDIAN-PC does on the P775 models, in a pure CPU environment (repadding, shim if needed, delidding, etc) it should cool CPU-only stresses better due to essentially more heatsink and double the fans.

Actually this is a good chance to ask, since we're not in the "what notebook should I buy" forum. John, do you think you could say, run a 4.5GHz 7700K in a post-work P775DM3 and in a P870KM1 (with the vapour chamber connected to the CPU heatsink) in some CPU-only stress tests using max fans and tell us which gets the better temperatures? wPrime, Cinebench, TSBench, AIDA64, x264 rendering via Handbrake on the same video. I know it's a decent amount of work but it would be interesting to see and know once and for all.

Also, I'd like the same CPU to be used in both systems (so we could avoid the difference between CPUs being a factor).

I understand if you cannot, though.

 

Yes, a serious problem any time you push the CPU hard without something more than internal fans to keep it from overheating! There is no reason I can identify for selection of a P7 over a P8. The P7 is an inferior product overall compared to the P8 from everything I can see. I would never consider purchasing a P77X and the TF5 is a better product than a P75X.

 

I think you're comparing apples to oranges here. Haswell was hotter than a blast furnace and high CPU temps were to be expected from the 4790K.

 

As someone who has lapped heatsinks before, wow, I am impressed. It is very annoying to lap heatsinks.

 

Anything with Haswell is going to be more challenging to cool due to the FIVR. That was a real joke, and not a funny one. Perhaps it is apples to oranges, but I've seen some really retarded thermals from 6700K and 7700K that have not been delidded as well. I just cannot recommend buying a laptop with a unified heat sink, since I would not do it again myself. It's not criticism specific to the P7XX Clevos, as I actually loved my P750ZM. It's just not a great heat sink design concept and it would be good idea to avoid going that route with any laptop, IMHO.

 

It depends, I would not mind soldering a heat-sink from the CPU cooler to the GPU in my P651SE. The 970M never goes above 65/70 in full load synthetic benchmarks, but the CPU can quickly reach +90 and near thermal throttling even with UV of 79mv. So a heat-pipe sending some heat from the CPU to GPU would be helpful.

And I know I have a turdbook but it was what I could buy at the time.

 

Nothing is more reliable than luck . It's not like a high-end notebook can last longer than a low end notebook , your luck decides that ...
Heat also an issue , if your laptop run too hot , its lifespan will be shortened . GTX 1070 and 1080 are known as "toaster" , even in desktop GPU form factor , these GPUs run hot , really hot at full load . Too much heat can damage VRAM chips

The CPU will last almost a decade or two unless you overvolt it ...But I'm not so sure about the current BGA CPU , the solder balls will melt slowly if the CPU run too hot . For 24/7, I suggest you should choose 1060 or 1050Ti + LGA desktop CPU like i7 7700 non-K (65W)

My old low end Acer notebook (i5 560M @ 3.0GHz + GT 540M , 75W in total) is 7 years old now but it still can play game just fine . Not always on (24/7) but I'm sure I used it more than 12h per day , usually 7:00~23:00

 

Total waste of time discussing this.

CPU ONLY workload is just too easy, both the P775 and P870 will cool it down without a problem and even allow you to OC.

Just some random printscreens from client orders:

P775DM3-G with 7700K 4CORES @ 4.6Ghz, 100% CPU LOAD:


MAX TEMP: 85ºC



Here´s a Vapor Chamber P870KM1-G
7700K 4CORES @ 4.8Ghz, 100% CPU LOAD:


MAX TEMP: 90ºC

Remember this is OVERCLOCKED speeds, with stock clocks + a bit of undervolt this will be wayyyyyyy cooler.

Both systems with 4 cores fixed at 4.5Ghz would give you around 80ºC.

If i keep pulling order results in some the P775 seems better in others the P870 seems better.

For CPU only you dont even need a vapor chamber...