Hey Flawless...Anybody Home??

I've called a couple of times in the past few weeks, and each time I either end up languishing on hold, or I get redirected to the voice mail system. Incidentally, your voice mail box appears to be full (as of 2pm EST 20 Feb.), so I couldn't leave a message. Should I try sending an email instead? I have a couple of questions regarding your Ambition notebook configuration.



-skel

 

you can email them, they should be checking it right now.

or you can PM them in this forum, they also check that routinely.

I guess they have been busy with a huge customer load. thats a good thing.

 

Yeah, I could email them, except I was led to believe, from both posts on this forum and a pop up window on their website, that one could secure a better price if they contacted flawless by phone...

 

email them and tell them to call you.

 

All VM's are forwarded to our email which has been down all day. Please try reaching me at ext 401.

Thanks

 

Thanks, will do.

 

So after 1 week, 2 e-mails, 2 voice mail messages and about a dozen phone calls, I still haven't been able to get in contact with anyone from Flawless Computers. In fairness, Brian from Flawless did return my call and left a message for me, albeit 1 day after I left my original message. He still hasn't returned my most recent message, and I'm growing weary of phone tag.

I understand there are technical issues on their end, it seems the voice mail system isn't properly forwarding to their e-mail system. But why should that matter? I've called at all different times in the last few days, and no one ever answers the phone! Is there anyone there besides Brian? Are all calls automatically forwarded to voice mail? Do they screen their calls? Who knows.

At any rate, I'm afraid I won't be doing business with Flawless. I've read plenty of positive feedback for them on this forum, but I can't in good conscience purchase from a company that won't even pick up the phone when I'm asking them to take my money. If this is how their sales department operates, what will their customer support be like?

-skel

 

That what happened to me also... Stay away. Ended up with discountlaptops. Very happy now...

 

http://www.resellerratings.com/forum/t125122.html

http://www.resellerratings.com/forum/t125206.html

Currently a bunch of us waiting for are refunds etc etc etc.
So will see.Sad i heard they were great computer builders, from 2 or 3 people. Maybe to much food on there plate? Who knows? Hopefully thats the case i'll let you guys know what happens. The things that's worried alot of us is the fact you can't get a call back, a email or anything from brian.

 

All I can say is wow. I had read testaments from people on this very forum regarding their experiences with Flawless, and it was generally positive. I had looked over their website quite a bit. I had taken the step of trying to contact them, and after numerous, numerous unsuccessful attempts at reaching them, through both e-mail and phone, it was at that point that I decided not to move forward with Flawless. After reading the posts from others on resellerratings, I'm glad I followed my gut instinct on this one.

I understand they do put together fine laptops, and there are people who have posted here that admit to a much smoother purchasing experience. However, I don't care if they can fabricate the Perfect laptop, I can't do business with someone that doesn't show the courtesy of returning calls or e-mails. That's not good business, any way you slice it. So perhaps they have too many orders or are understaffed. They can have my sympathy, but not my money.

As an epilogue to this story, I decided to go with rjtech's bare bones kit for the M570u-A. I just received the RAM and hard disk from NewEgg; expecting the t7600 and the laptop to arrive by the end of the week.

 

Nice, going to build your notebook too i see.

Hopefully, you got the barebones with the Optical drive, Wifi-Card, and the optional TV Tuner.

Those things are the most neglected components that people dont think about when building their notebooks. Trust me i know.

 

Optical drive ... check
WiFi ... check
TV Tuner ... no

I set a budget of ~$2k, and I really focused more on quality "computing" components like the cpu (Core2Duo t7600), ram (Kingston 1GB) and hd (Seagate 80GB 7200RPM) instead all of the attendant gizmos. I chose the ATI x1600 graphics card because, well, I'm not a gamer. I'm a programmer. It really may have been a stretch for someone like me to opt for Clevo in the first place. However, a guy I work with has used Sager (Clevo derivative) for some time with good results. We also have a Sager 9750 that our company uses as a portable demo/app server/database machine; it's the equivalent of a laptop on steroids. I looked all over, Asus, MSI, etc, but at the end of the day, I had the best feeling about Clevo, given that I had seen the build quality up close. I really had a bug about assembling the machine from parts for some reason, and Clevo offers some of the best quality bare bones platforms I'm aware of. Some of the other features like the instant DJ thing, and the fact that you can upgrade the graphics card, were just icing on the cake!

 

ah ok, guess you wont be needing to game or watch TV on that thing.

tell us how it goes when you put it all together.

 

Okay so I ordered from flawless about a month and half ago, everything seemed to go well. But now i read all these other stories and I am getting a little nervous. I wonder if its just inpatient people or is flawless going under.....good thing i payed for that extended warranty.....

 

A formal message regarding Flawless Computers' current standing will be posted in the next couple days. The company has run into certain obstacles that are delaying all orders and limiting contact.

 

The Flawless Computers company was a scam. I called Brian's "parents" house tonight and they responded that they would call me back tomorrow. Shortly thereafter, I recieved an email from Brian indicating that the company will be filing for bankruptcy. If you are one of the people who have been ripped off by this, PM me for further info as several of us have gathered together already to take action against Brian Smith.

 

Anyone know if the warranty they offered was through Sager? Before I purchased I called Brian twice to make sure it was through Sager and not some third party, and he assured me it wasn't through some third party.

I was skeptical of the "take it to a local repair shop" policy, and now I guess that was too good to be true.

Here's what he said on the forum:

Clevo branded notebooks can be warrantied by whoever. In our case, we do easily fixable warranty work, sometimes outsourced to a local repair shop for expedited turn-around. Anything more difficult (ie internal) will go back to the manufacture for repair.
source

Does that mean it's through Sager? Sadly my invoice says "3 Year Flawless Care Parts and Labor Warranty." I guess I would have to call Sager to find out?

There was no price for the warranty, so I got what I paid for, but if something in the future does happen, what should I do?

 

Most North American Clevo resellers get their barebones from mainly:
- Sager
- Pro Star
- Eurocom

Those are the 3 main distributors of Clevo barebones for other resellers.

So your warranty would most likely be from one of those 3, which are all reputable.

 

I'm guessing it would be Sager, but how do I make sure if it's a 1 year or 3 year warranty? What's their number? Last time I called I for info on a replacement battery (on an older model) I got some lady who didn't speak English real well. I'd like to avoid that.

also i'm having a good laugh at this

source

 

I feel no joy in seeing any company that has tried their best to meet and exceed their customers' expectations with great pricing, service, and support.

Lets hope that everything goes well for both the customers and the company.

 

taken down till more info is released

 

Oh great, I guess i learned my lesson. This is the kind of risk you take when you buy from a relatively new company. I am hoping somebody can find out if the warranty is through sager or any other company besides flawless.

I dont think he was running a scam, I just think he did not know how to run his business, and got overwhelmed as soon as the company got popular.

Now i am sitting with a laptop that i get nervous looking at because I dont know if I got everything i payed for (I should open it up) and I dont know if it would be covered through warranty.

Hey RICKSTER are you looking to get a full refund from brian or at least a refund for the warranty?

 

Like Gophn mentioned, I'm not taking pleasure in someone else's misfortunes. This whole situation, to me, has the look & feel of what started out as well intentioned small enterprise that couldn't effectively manage its growth and ultimately, was a victim of its own success. The phone calls kept coming in, the orders piled up, they couldn't keep pace and then the wheels came off.

But at the same time, you can't just run & hide, unplug the phone from the wall or stop responding to email. That's what put me off. If you're having problems, be honest, keep your customers informed and in the loop. When you put yourself incommunicado, that is what will make people angry.

 

It did not feel like a scam, more of an attempt to innovate (in a way) with their pricing and service (warranty), which sounds great on paper. But difficult, as we see now, when practiced.

A business needs to grow and expand to accommodate its workload with new customers. Its the only way to stay in business and become even more successful.

I would not go and throw the word "scam" around until we get all the facts.

Again, I hope this all goes well for everyone involved.

I really hope that Flawless pulls through this and learned a few things from it, because they really are a great reseller from those have have spoken to me personally about their experiences with them.

-Gophn

 

I know, I should have listened to Donald Stratton, but I just made fun of him as he sat behind his huge reseller rating. No more new companies for me, no matter how good the price.

Maybe Brian had good intentions, but some of the things he did were shady. Giving people money for a review is against reseller rating's policy.

I'm thinking you should keep the laptop, because judging by past situations like this, you'll have a hard time getting your money back. It'll drag on and be a big pain if there's a lawsuit. I guess we should call sager to see if we have a warranty through them.

I didn't pay any money for the warranty. To upgrade from a standard 1 year warranty to a 3 year warranty was ZERO dollars. So I don't know how he'd give me money back. But I still don't know if it's covered through sager.

I think I might try this site if I have no warranty. I have no clue how that works though.

I'm just going to take down my previous post till more info is gathered.

 

tell me the serial number underneath your Clevo notebook, and I can tell where it came from:
- Sager
- ProStar

I have a 99% certainty that its going to be from one of those 2 distributors/resellers.

 

PM'ed

how do i find out if it's a 1 or 3 year warranty?

 

Okay folks,

here is the way to find out it the notebook has which warranty:

Underneath the notebook, where is says

You should see it say SERIAL #:

if it has a PS********** at the beginning, that chassis came from Pro-Star.

if it has, pretty much anything else, (for this situation) its probably from Sager.

NOTE: you might notice 2 stickers, one on top of the other.
- the one on top: is the sticker from the reseller to ID their notebooks
- the one on bottom: (usually with NK******) is the original sticker from Clevo.

To know the warranty on it (standard is 1-year automatically),
- call or email the corresponding reseller
- give them your serial#
- they should tell you its warranty info

 

Thanks Gophn.

I just called this # on Sager's website

1-800-741-2219

got some lady who spoke gibberish, but whatever, and I asked for Sager support, and i got through right away

I gave them my serial #, it's the sticker that was over the other serial #. The guy said it has a 1 year warranty under Sager. This is because Brian put in his own parts into the laptop. It could get 3 years if it was all Sager parts. They don't cover the ram/cpu/hdd since Brian put those in, if those go bad you have to pay for the parts yourself.

Does that sound right Gophn?

So i don't really have a 3 year warranty if Flawless goes down. I didn't pay anything extra for a 3 year warranty, but i'm still a bit miffed that I don't have one.

I guess i'll have to look into that safeware site a bit.

 

That sounds right.

most resellers just get the barebones from the distributor (Sager/ProStar), so that they can customize the standardized components within to the customer's liking.

Flawless wanted to give their customers the best, so they threw in a 3 year warranty for Free, so if something does happen, then you would have the 1-year from Sager.

As for the components, each has their own warranty.
- RAM (if from Corsair or Kingston) is lifetime warranty
- HDD is usually 3-year warranty
- CPU is usually 3-year warranty

As you can see, you dont have much to worry about. The notebook and its components are great warranties already, regardless which reseller you got it from.

 

rickster did you charge your notebook?

 

don't i need a receipt or the packaging (serial #'s) to get warranty for the ram/cpu/hdd?

I'm just worrying about the mobo, Sager doesn't have that good of a track record with those.

yes, you want me to issue a charge back?

I don't know if that'll help me. At the time I purchased this laptop I saved $500 compared to all the resellers. Shelling out $200 for safeware is probably less hassle than getting my money back and then buying a new one.

 

I payed 350.00 for the warranty from flawless, I will be trying to get that back through my credit card company.

 

the "track record" that you speak of was mainly for the D*** series, with the desktop CPU's and notebook motherboards

I would not worry about the M570U motherboard, its mature and well engineered compared to the previous desktop replacement models... (did i just burn myself there since i have a D900K..LOL)

The D900T was the notebook with the most notoriety of having failing components to do the excessive heat from the Pentium 4 desktop CPUs.

As for the components, if anything does happen to Flawless, they are obligated to disclose all required info to their customers for things such as receipts for the separate components.

 

Ok, that makes me feel a little bit better.

Some of the mobos on the 56xx models (dont recall the clevo #) weren't that great either. I had it replaced twice. I'm guessing it was a heat related problem, and not bad capacitors. But still, i'm a bit concerned.

 

lets assume flawless is going bankrupt who is going to obligate them from giving out receipts for the separate componets if no one can get a hold of brian

 

a business has some legal obligations with such things, regardless if they are still in business or not.

its for consumer-protection

again, I would not get too negative to speculate, but I do understand your thoughts to have a contingency plan.

 

Sorry, but i'm a bit hysterical. This is the second time I got shafted by a sager reseller's warranty. I got owned by the micro medics fiasco and had to wait 6 months for them to repair my laptop. Now I'm going to have to jump through some hoops in order to fix my laptop in the future.

That's making me jump to guilty until proven innocent.

My faith in Sager resellers is shattered.

If I choose to get another DTR down the line i'm probably going to go for Dell or Gateway. I got burned twice by these Sager resellers and I'm not staying around for a third time. My luck with them is horrible. I bet if I ordered through Powernotebooks their store would burn down.

 

well this is the first time i ordered from a SAGER reseller, and now it has left a bitter taste in my mouth. I am probably never get a notebook again, and just try to build desktops on my own next time.

Why does it seem to me that you and I are the only people that ordered from flawless?

 

I understand your grief, and I share some of your concerns having recently purchased a Clevo 570u machine from xVx. Even though they don't seem to be suffering from any of the problems that Flawless displayed, who's to say they wont before my 3 years are up?

I'm sort of crossing my fingers hoping I don't end up regretting this purchase rather than the Dell or Alienware machines I had initially considered. I have no reason to think I will, but it is still a scary thought.

I think you experience would scare me away from the small reseller market as well. On the upside, maybe someone can convince a new up-and-comer or a copmpeting reseller to buy his client base from him.

If I were a competitor, I would totally sell pro-rated warranties to Existing FC customers who can show a receipt in an effort to earn future customers.

 

I dunno. I PMed the Italian guy (ungkaren) about this thread but he hasn't signed on here for a week. He wrote his reseller rating review before he got the laptop. His posts were crazy, he always posted his undying love for Flawless even though he didn't have a laptop from them. I even chatted with him on AIM a few times, he seemed like a nice guy otherwise. I might PM a few more people if they don't respond soon.

Well now that I look back on this ordeal, i probably wouldn't buy from any "unknown" reseller. And for xVx, well it's hard to speculate if there will be any problems, but they've had some quirky things happen to them recently.

My other Sager was through PC Torque. They were in the top 2 of Sager resellers back in 2003. So I thought I was going to have no troubles. Turns out the extended warranty was through some third party (philips/micro medics). Micro Medics somehow was able to get a bunch on contracts from companies for laptop repair. They over extended themselves, and had ~600 laptops a day come in for repair, so there were huge wait times for everyone. I think nearly all the Sager resellers used them (power notebooks, xotic pc, discount laptops) and lots of people got upset. There was another thrid party that some resellers used after micro medics, ATS. ATS went bankrupt and a lot of people are still left with dead laptops.

I made sure this time my warranty wasn't through some third party. And I did, but, I didn't factor in the company going under.

I hope you don't go though the trouble i'm going through. I hope xVx becomes one of the prominent Sager resellers. Although i'm not to fond of that xVx rep. He's not the sharpest crayon in the box.

 

Yikes! What Quirky stuff? Please share before they ship that machine!

 

uh, didn't you know their name was censored on the notebook forums? it takes quite a bit to get your website blocked. They recently got it unblocked, i don't know the reason behind it, but it's shady. Their reseller ratings seem odd. It's like every 6 months they get reviews, then there's a period where they get no reviews. Also doesn't that rep strike you as a high school drop out? He's not the best at spelling and that scam e-mail he posted was in poor taste. Is that the best rep they havefor xVx? Hopefully it's just the owners kid, but still...

I don't know if any of that is cause for cancelling your order, but I personally after what i've gone through, I would only go with the older resellers, (powernotebooks, xotic pc, discount laptops), and pay a bit more for stability.

 

I was wondering how long ago did you buy your notebook?

and how did you pay for it? via credit card?

 

Wiggit, you asking me?
I bought 2/23 by credit card. It is supposed to ship on monday the 5th. I should have it within 2 weeks of purchase even with the slow-mo free shipping.

Rick,
I don't know why the xVx name was censored, but I do know this. Laura@NBF, the admin and owner of that site, is married to the owner of PCTorque. I could certainly see some conflicts of interest forming in that regard. Now, that may be completely unrelated to the issue of the xVx censure, but it is interesting to me, especially with PCTorque receiving some less than stellar attention in recent days (on that forum anyway).

 

I was actually asking rick, but its interesting that you ordered a couple of days ago. Have you been in talks with Brian as far as how your system is going? or has he broken any communication with you too? at least your covered by your credit card.

 

Oh, I didn't buy from Flawless, I bought from xVx (xVxonline.com). Same laptop though, the Clevo 570u.

 

I visit NBF all the time and I wasn't aware of that. I guess that explains the predominance of PCTorque on the NBF Sager/Clevo forum.

 

I just don't get why anyone is shady and does this stuff to people.
GET A JOB and STOP RIPPING PEOPLE'S MONEY OFF.
Don't these idiots think when they take peoples money and do things like this? would they like it done to them?
How would they like it if they worked 60 hours a week for a whole 9 dollars in hour in a crappy economy, and they ordered a comptuer from me and i just HA! take there money. I bet they wouldn't be smiling. Either way to anyone thats evil, corrupt, does bad things and takes people's hard earned money and gives them no product etc etc, i hope people like that end up in prison.

 

have you had any communication with Brian, I know your one of the people trying to get a refund....?