How is the Guru fire KS(P950HP6) achieving such good battery life.

Guru fire KS



These results seem weird for a 55Whr laptop .

Compare those results to the 82Whr GS65.

 

Probably due to EC limiting the components more than on the GS 65. Considerng the stuff you would do on battery powered notebook it might even be the right move.

 

How would ec effect web browsing ?

A 5w system limit ?/S

 

Can't tell you that. You should probably check yourself on the notebooks.

 

Considering video playback is a constant load that throttling would do nothing to help consumption it more speaks to the system being more efficient in component choices under 2d load.

Different manufacturers specify different full load levels, always a fraction of the battery, as you can see neither is going to last a long time under full 3d load anyway.

 

Well in this case we talk about same specs, but despite GS 65 having a considerably larger battery the clevo lasts equally as long. My assumption is that the EC simply lowers the wattage further than the GS 65. Correct me if I'm wrong since this is me guessing.

 

If it did it's simply being more efficient, same work done at lower power for the 2d loads. What's really going on usually is the component selection, how efficient is your VRM setup over a range of outputs? What secondary chips have you got on the board? The screen can have a large impact at full idle especially. Then there are all those little minor circuits and chips, they add up when you are talking about fractions of a watt. It's going through the design with a fine tooth comb manually looking at layouts and choices that tends to get you that extra battery life.

 

I am talking about why guru fire KS gets 5.5H while other P95X laptops get 3.5~4. GS65 was added just as apoint of refrence to point out that the guru fire KS was getting huge battery life, not to compare.

 

I doubt that VRM etc. does this insane impact (even tho they do a small difference), but never thought about screen. I suppose you got a point there, since it seems that if turned the screen on full brightness the battery life goes to crap on the MSI.

 

I suspect the big difference is in the configurations.

1. The Guru Fire P950HP6 is an old Kaby Lake machine. The GS65 is a 6-core 8750H which will more readily use the additional cores and they cannot be gated off to save power. Both are 14nm with very similar architectures.
2. The GS65 uses 2x 8GB DDR4 sticks which can result in slightly higher power draw.
3. The GS65 uses a 144hz panel (P950HP6 reviews is a 60hz model). Assuming the 144hz panel is set to run at full speed in Windows, even on the desktop it'll draw more power.

If you compare it to the more recent Eurocom Q6 review (the new 8750H/144hz/1070MQ variant which is more directly comparable), you'll find the GS65 demolishes it in battery life:
https://www.notebookcheck.net/Euroc...op-Review.306110.0.html#toc-energy-management

Furthermore, software is a huge issue with idle battery tests. Notebookcheck often has significantly different battery times when reviewing the same Clevo machines from different resellers which would suggest software/firmware differences.

To be honest, Clevo really need to figure out what they're doing with the P950. With no Thunderbolt3, no MUX/G-Sync Switch (their 1 somewhat unique feature, new ASUS excepted) and a weak battery, the P950 is a real dud when compared to the current crop of Aero15, GS65, Aorus X5 and Razer Blade. Honestly, it blows my mind that the P950 exists in it's current form given it's not even much cheaper than the competition. Somehow the PA70ES-G got Thunderbolt3 and G-Sync/MUX :/

 

Oh dang, now that makes a lot more sense. I assumed the P950HP for some reason coffelake, duhhhh, brainfart on my part.

 

Good CPU sample?

VID is only 1.067v, might be doing those tests at 0.7v or less..

 

nah stooj solved the mystery, we are just all blind :'D
It's 7700HQ 60HZ screen vs 8750H + 120HZ+ screen. Obviously the latter won't last as long due to 2 extra cores and lesser frequency on the screen.

 

Even being a Kaby lake, 10 hours iddle/5 hours browsing on that battery size is kinda amazing.

 

@Danishblunt
1 the Q5(i7 7700hq + 60hz)is getting results that are miles behind the Guru KS.

@Stooj
2 lets look at the price tags
P950ER : 1529$
PA71 : 1839$
GS65 : 2000$
zephrus M : 2200$
AERO 15X: 2300$
RB 2018: 2600$

It's priced reasonably.

For the battery life lower brightness and slap a 8w-15w TDP cap(in XTU) when browsing/video playing + UV and it would be as power efficent as a ULV cpu and you might get 6+ hours out of it

Lack of TB3 is definitely inexcusable.

Lack of a Mux switch is a cost saving* move(to save the Gsync licensing fees)

Clevo didn't release a PA like 15 incher to make sure the P950 doesn't get thrown out of the market by it's own product.

The P950 is budget Max-Q laptop. Do you expect the helios 300 to have a 144hz panel ? If you don't then don't expect the P950 to come with MUX.

* I expected the C word to get filtered

 

Where are you getting those prices from? Keep in mind ALL of the competitors ship a 144hz panel and 512GB PCIE SSD which ups the cost of an equivalent P950ER significantly. Most builders will only show the price for the base configuration (60hz, no drive or basic 250GB SSD or similar).
The Sager P950ER config with 500GB NVME drive and no spinning drive comes to $1964 USD.

Putting in a TDP cap will not work, the battery is simply too small. Ignoring dead idle battery life (a non-realistic scenario), we'll go with the video/web numbers.
Consider:
- The GS65 has a 11W average idle draw, 82Whr battery and pulls 6 hours of web use.
- The P950ER has a 11W MINIMUM draw and 16W average idle draw, 55Whr battery and pulls 3:39 hours of web use.

In order for the P950ER to get 6+ hours web/video usage you'd have to cut your idle draw in HALF due to the smaller battery. It's just not possible.

Hardly, we all now it's basically just printing money. The previous P600 range had G-Sync and even some of the old N series had it. Both of which were cheaper than the P950 series on release.

The PA series are just 17" relatives of the P950. They probably should've just called them P970 to keep things simple. They're in a completely different market by virtue of their size and weight (which eliminates them from the 2KG or under "slim" laptop category everyone is competing in now).

They previously did this with the P650/P670 series operating with parallel feature sets.

The P950 is NOT a budget machine. It has a 1070MQ in it....Keep in mind they were released in parallel with the P650HS-G series and were priced ABOVE them despite lacking the MUX switch.
The budget machines are the N950/N850 series.

 

The P950 is the helios 300 of the 1070MQ laptops. It's the budget option by the virtue of existing at a significantly lower price point than other 1070MQ laptops.

With 128GB/1TB you can get it with windows for 1552$(with free LM on cpu + gpu) from @GenTechPC. People who want value would prefer an SSD+HDD layout over an NVME. I have never seen people on pc builder go 512gb NVME only, while the overwhelming majority go for an SSD+ HDD layout.

I limit my i7 5500U to 5w MAX when I am browsing/playing video. It's forced to consume as much power as an M7 cpu(tablet CPU). Go see how much battery life the I7 8550u(15w) gets with a 55whr battery in video playback .Spoiler: it gets 8H with a 55whr battery(with a 4k 500 nits screen which draws much more power than a 144hz 300nits one ). If you tell the i7 8750H to never ever use above 5W it will consume less(at a glorious max of probably 1.1ghz@5w). More cores at a lower frequncy are more power efficent than less with higher frequncy. You can go to 1w and you would have a 2-3w idle -_-. Not sure you want to see the performance of that. I'll test to see if this can treble/double the battery life on my i7 5500u ****ty machine

This is clevo . You buy cheaper, You customize the **** out of it and you get optimal performance with the only catch is that you still have that 500-800$ in your pocket.

Is it a headache ? Yes. It's a pain in the ass.

If You want plug-in-play go msi put your wallet will be 600$ lighter.

Do you really think this laptop would have competed with 2k price tag plus everything you want ?.

 

My last two Clevos, including this one, throttled the CPU to well under 2GHz when on battery, and there didn't seem to be any way to change that so it must've been a firmware thing. I wonder if that has something to do with it.

 

So you're comparing a different feature set entirely. Stop shifting the goal posts and compare apples to apples. From the Gentech website (since that's where you're getting pricing from):
Base = P955ER
+500GB NVME drive
-1TB HDD
+Windows 10 Home
Total = $1744
And, if you look closely it only comes in the 120hz TN panel option, NOT the new 144hz IPS panel so that's not great.

So compared to the $1999 GS65 you're only saving $255 and only get the 120hz TN which is inferior in almost every way to the IPS panel since it's an old panel. The new 144hz IPS panel even has faster black->white and grey->grey response times...

That's nice, but completely unrelated since we're talking about the power consumption of the entire machine. The CPU is only a very small portion of that. There's the screen and all the other motherboard devices to consider such as RAM, PCH, USB controllers (ie Alpine Ridge), Sound etc.

The 15W max tdp has almost 0 impact on idle/web runtimes.

The reason ULV processors have such long battery life is because their idle power consumption for the entire machine is reduced significantly. One part of that, is they have no outboard chipset, they're a SOC design. Everything is integrated so they cut out much of the extra power consumption. Then combine that with many ULV notebooks using LPDDR3 instead of full size DDR4 to further save energy.

Sure, you can tell a 8750H to run at 1Ghz and use <5W if you like, but you cannot delete the PCH off the motherboard from drawing power. For reference, the CoffeeLake chipsets have their own TDP of 2.6-3.6W.

Not if you don't need the cores. Intel CPUs aren't gated so the more cores you have, the higher your minimum power draw will always be (on the same architecture/process).

 

Same here, on every Clevo I've ever had. Prema bios gets around it on the P870s... seems to be able to run the CPU at full speed not that I've been game to run anything deliberately heavy, I've only noticed it in retrospect a few times when I've accidentally not had the AC switched on

120/144hz screen vs 60hz screen will up not only display panel power consumption but also the GPU will also load up more. Maybe even kick it into a higher Pstate - running external 4K plus laptop 4K has my master 1080 idling at ~1266mhz ~36W instead of 139mhz ~8W with just the internal, due to memory controller load

IPS also uses more power than TN

 

For your first point. What if I want a laptop with 1070MQ for 1600$ ? Can I get the gs65 for 200$ above that ? No I can't. The clevo was designed for the 1500~1700 portion of the market. As competing in the 2k range is impossible.


128/256GB SSD + 1TB HDD > 512GB NVME. anyway

Why doesnt the helios 300 come with a 512GB NVME SSD ? Because poeople who bought it want the 1050$ price tag. Period.

Again if you have a 2k budget and care about battery life go GS65. But if you want a 1529$ 1070MQ machine the P950 is the only choice.

It won't be as good as power efficent as a ULV chip as that **** is binned. Limitimg it to 5W is noticeably improving my battery life. And It will noticeably improve the I7 8750H battery life too if you can take the performance hit.

PCH tdp doesn't equal PCH idle TDP........


My point is that you can squeeze 6H out of it. There tons of ways you can gut the performance to squeeze battery life.

Including :

1 lowering refresh rate to 60(30hz in CRU if your desperate)

2 underclock IGPU to 300~600mhz

3 undervolt CPU and IGPU

4 windows power saving mode

5 lower brightness

6 TDP limit the CPU

Expect 4H, hope for 6H is how I would approach this.





I'll begin testing 5W tdp vs normal now.

 

I'm talking about comparing products. If you want a 1070MQ laptop with nothing else in it to save money, then more power to you. But for most people, the value is in a complete product (including Windows). Once equipped to a similar level the P950 just doesn't stack up. There's too many things "missing" for the money you save and they're not trivial things either.

Irrelevant and highly debatable based on use case scenarios.
If battery life is your main concern then you should be opting for 1 single SSD.

If you have the budget and need battery life you'd be getting an Aero15 as it has an even larger 94Whr battery.

I didn't say that. The point was, it's more stuff that uses power which is not present in ULV systems.

You expect users to have to go through ALL of this just to get to 6 hours or usable battery?

Or you could just buy a system with a bigger battery

 

The VRM is delivering the power, if it's tuned for idle power delivery you could go from 88 to 90% efficiency which can have a big impact in idle consumption.

 

You're wasting your time if you expect more than 5 hours of battery life on this laptop. I tried everything with my P950HP6, including all the steps outlined in this excellent thread, but I still couldn't get idle power draw (i.e. battery discharge rate as reported by HWInfo or batteryinfoview) to drop below 10 W even with the screen turned off. As a result, the maximum amount of battery life that you'll get out this laptop is 5.5 hours (55 Wh/10W = 5.5 h).

The main reason for this, I think, is the nvidia gpu. In an optimus laptop, the whole GPU will enter its lowest C-state when idle, but this doesn't stop the GPU from still drawing some power. I'd estimate this number to be between 3 W - 6 W depending on the GPU (a 1050 will be closer to 3 W and a 1070 would be 6 W+). This is the reason why laptops with MUX switches or BIOS options which electrically turn off the dGPU have much better battery life when the nvidia GPU is disabled (watch the video below for an example of this).

Another reason why gaming laptops have poorer battery life than Intel U series laptops is, quite simply, the way in which they are designed. The number 1 priority a engineer has when designing an ultrabook is power efficiency, and therefore all the design choices (choice of components, circuit layout, firmware etc) will be geared towards power efficiency. Efficiency is less of a concern when designing gaming laptops - at least when compared to performance - so gaming laptops end up with worse battery life as a result.



It is also worth pointing out that Intel's H series CPUs are not the same as U series CPUs. The differences between the two is greater than just core count, clock speed and TDP. An example of this is the fact that U series processors have a different PCH which is on the same package as the CPU. Intel H series CPUs have the PCH off package on a separate part of motherboard. Having the PCH off-package is less efficient than having it on package because an off package PCH has extra circuitry which will waste power. Another key difference is that U series CPUs are connected to the PCH via 2 DMI 3.0 lanes compared to 4 lanes on H series CPUs, thus saving power.

 

Assuming you want windows 10 these are how cheaply you can get a P955ER

256 GB NVME WD black SSD + 2 TB HDD : 1577$
With 500GB 970 EVO NVME : 1613$
With 256GB 970 EVO + 1TB MX500 : 1738$

I sent you a PM on how to get that.

All that comes with FREE LM on CPU and GPU

I personally would rather I get it without windows to save a further 70$ from the prices listed above.

Why don't you also "equip" the GM501 to a similar level ? Why everyone is fine with the GM501 being a 256GB SSD + 1TB HDD expect you ? . SSD + HDD setup still have more value, people who are building pc's still use them over the pure ssd setup and those people have the freedom to choose whatever they want.

Not having 6H battery life isn't a missing feature, 4H battery life is average. Lack of TB3 is.

You can choose whatever you want and It would still be significantly cheaper than an aero 15x. The dieffrence when both have windows 10 + 512GB NVME is 687$.

If you have a budget around 2.3k. Extend it to 2.45K and get a razer blade 2018 with a 2 year Microsoft accidental damage warrenty.

I was the guy who said "the closer you get to 2k, the more worthless the P955 becomes"

Add to the list

7 downclock 1070MQ idle clock from 450mhx to 101mhz


Want plug and play ? Than you should pay your plug in play taxs which range from 487$(GS65)-987$(RB 2018)

I wrote in the comment you replied to that its a pain in the ass to do. I Know that. But is it worth it ? That's the 987$ question.

The Instruction were if you were desperate for battery life you can use my steps to get a few more hours out of that tiny battery. Using some of these steps my machine went from 3.5H battery to 5H and 10 minutes(NOT A SAGER P95XER MACHINE)

Hopefully the next gen will ditch the hdd slot for a 89Whr battery+ TB3+ MUX+2nd M2 slot + 90w 1070MQ for 1649$ with windows and 512GB SSD

 

You can downclock the 1070 idle clock(C state) memory and core clocks from 450mhz to 101mhz in NVinspicter. Maybe that will work to lower it to 1050TI idle power consumption.

 

At idle then optimus should be enabled and the dGPU should be off.

 

At complete idle it is. But web browsing/h264 video isn't off all the time. The Guru ks (1060) gets 5H while the Q5(1070MQ) gets 4H

 

It should be during web browsing (the intel IGP can handle most tasks just fine), check your nvidia settings.

 

Than why are 1060 p950 laptop getting more battery life than their 1070MQ counterparts in battery life and video playback ?

Genuine question

 

I don't need a PM. Are you sure you don't have some sort of conflict of interest here?

Masterfully missing the point, again.

Protip: the GM501 comes in 2 variants. The 1GS is the GTX1070 with 512GB NVME SSD + 1TB HDD. The lower end 1GM is only a GTX1060 and comes with the 256GB NVME SSD and sits in a different price bracket.

It's a lacking feature when Razer, MSI and Gigabyte have all opted to go with large batteries this generation. It's also not something that can simply be upgraded like RAM or SSDs. Other manufacturers have raised the bar and Clevo should be trying to meet it or be left behind.

Which does nothing on an Optimus machine since the Nvidia GPU is turned off when not in use....Anything that requires the Nvidia GPU and yet leaves it in the minimum P8 state is better done on the Intel iGPU.

I've already addressed this. The NBC review of the GTX1060 P950 was using a slower screen and a quad-core processor. It draws less power even on the desktop.

With Optimus/Hybrid the GPU is basically turned OFF when not in use. PCIE 3.0 has supported power gated states for years now and we're talking about power leakage of <40 micro-watts.

 

It's not allowed to reveal a reseller NBR discount here...... so I sent you a PM. I am not a clevo fanboy or a guy who is intrested in clevo success. I ****ted all over the P95XER for months and reccomended people to stay away from it when their configured P95X crossed the 2k price point.

PERSONALLY, PERSONALLY. Is having an opinion a crime?
All my price comparisons where made with windows 10. To match that of the

Yeah right . Microsoft and amazon stores are wrong

A bettery size isn't a feature lol. It's a stat. And the P95XER is average in this department I agree. But it also kills in the value department(500gb nvme + windows)

P95XER : 1673$
Gs65 : 2100$
Aero 15x : 2300$
RB 2018 : 2600$

Let's not also forget the aero 15x atrocious cooling(GPU @ 89c average) or it's several keyboard and screen issues.

The GS65 inverted MB and cooling are also downsides comapred to the P95XER.

The razer has the PCH and the ROM in the heatsink. So enjoy seeing it die in 2 years unless you LM to lower temps.

The P95XER real issues are :
1 the usage of the 80w 1070MQ

2 the combined system draw limit of 150w

The battery isn't as bad as a GM501 to kill this laptop

Lets look at Q5(1070MQ) and guru fire KS(1060). Both have a 60hz screen and an I7 7700HQ

Power consumption comparison.


Guru fire KS


Q5

The only difference between them is 1060 vs 1070MQ. Which leads me to think the GPU has something to do with.

See above. My gtx 950M runs occasionally(for less than 5s usually) outside games at 540mhz with optimus auto.

Neither of us is baised or have a conflict of intrest.

 

You seem obsessed with defending the P950.

What's the difference? Unlike ram or SSDs, a bigger battery requires more space in the chassis which requires a re-design and cannot simply be "upgraded".

"All-day" battery is definitely a feature which many manufacturers target now(ie. 8 hours web usage). Meeting that target allows for these machines to cross over into the work/enterprise space somewhat. A bigger battery is also the only way to increase battery time under load.

The Eurocom Q5 review model has a 4K panel in it which uses more power at any brightness level.

That is a software issue. If your GPU is turning on by itself then something is triggering app detection (Optimus does not detect based on load, but by app or API). You should enable the Optimus indicator and see what app is powering the GPU on.
This could include monitoring apps (e.g. Nvidia Inspector and GPU-Z will power on the GPU by default).

Lets be honest here, all the thin and lights suck at cooling in some form. The Aero15x seems like it has poor cooling, but only if you just take the temperatures at face value.

The Aero15X is one of the few machines which doesn't actually hit 95C+ on the CPU which is respectable. Under NBC's torture test it stabilises at 2.8/2.9ghz on all cores and max 92C, average 90C. It's running at 0.997V during the test.
The Eurocom Q6/P950ER on the other hand hits 98C and stabilises at 84C, but is thermal throttled down to 2.2ghz (base clock). It's running at 0.788V during the test.

So the Aero15X CPU runs hotter because it's using more power which allows it to run a higher boost clock. If you wanted, you could use Throttlestop/XTU to cap it to 2.2ghz like the P950ER and it'd probably run at a similar temp.

On the GPU side the story is identical, the Aero15X runs hotter, but it's also running at 89C, 1189mhz, high load 90%+ at 0.68V.
The P950ER is hamstrung by power throttling and runs at 923.5mhz at 70C at 0.65V. 70C sounds great, but not at the expense of being locked out of performance.
You could do the same thing here and underclock the Aero if you wanted.

 

See my history.

I started the P95XER throttling thread
I started why does sager use the slower 80w 1070MQ threads.

All these threads are long, non stop threads of ****ting all over clevo, it's resellers and the P95X in general.

I agree but 4 hours is average. It's NOT bad.

Bad is GM501 and G sync laptops getting 2-3 hours.

Expecting the laptop with the most aggressive price tag in a certain market to match the laptops that are priced 629$ above it isn't fair to clevo.

4H of battery life isn't a deal breaker for a machine targeting gamers. And premamod usually has an option for disabling cores(don't know if it's there or not as prema hasn't released it yet). You might run it with 2 cores and 24hz for all I care.

Didn't notice that. My bad here

Knowing toshiba they will never fix this.

No. No .no

The razer blade is the best(has hot CPU as razer set the TDP to 60w instead of 45w)

Sager P95XER is the second best CPU wise and tied in the GPU.

The GS65 power throttles due to MSI retarded bios overvolting. And it's cooling isn't that good(can't hold 3.9ghz even with UV in games)

The aero 15x is the worst. The GPU runs at 89c 24/7 and the I've heard the cpu reaches 95c in ****ing fortnite . See d2ultima comment in the other thread.

The NBC review had a cherry picked silicon lottery winner chip. See that 1.09v maximum and compare that to msi and sager 1.259v.

It will throttle to 2.2ghz like them if it wasn't

The Q6 tests are on the "max-Q" fan profile and second the aero 15x easily reaches those results.

https://m.imgur.com/a/PeA2gb2

This is a P95XER with LM (which you can get for free from gentechpc ) its 67c average without thermal throttling. So unless LM is causing a 25c temp drop something else is going on. Lets also remember that GPU cooling also matters and the P95XER almost never crosses 70c(designed for fat 1070)

Let's also not talk about the 15X real issues .

1 the freezing issue

2 the keyboard issues

3 the atrocious cooling(GPU will never go below 80c)

The difference between them in Furmark is caused by the usage of the 80W 1070MQ in the sager as opposed to the 90w in the aero 15x. As all 90w hold 1190mhz in furmark while the 80w is in the 700~900mhz area.

The GS65 also uses an 80W 1070MQ

The sager can hold below 75c at max performance as its gpu cooling was initially designed for the fat 1070 according to prema.

The 90w is used to compensate for the aero 15x using single channel memory.

The GS65 sucks CPU cooling wise and has inverted MB BS and retarded CPU overvolting which causes power throttling.


"Second, the Aero 15X has had severe issues outside of its atrocious cooling, including backlight bleed issues, keyboard double strokes, and if you pinch the screen you get this:....... DO NOT BUY AN AERO 15X."
@D2 Ultima
The aero 15x keyboard is broken, it's GPU and CPU cooling is atrocious and it's software is garbage.


The razer blade won't last longer than 2 years and when it inevitably fails be prepared for that 1400$ MB quote.

The P95XER has mediocre battery life, Cancer EC throttling and broken fan control.

Choosing a 1070MQ laptop is min maxing. And I see no reason PERSONALLY what so ever to pay an extra 700$ if the EC throttling issue is fixed(premamod removes ec throttling completely so the fix is guaranteed)

Now Let's remind you with the price points(with 500gb nvme + windows 10) again

P955ER : 1671$(no reseller discount)
Gs65 : 2100$
AERO 15X : 2300$
RB 2018 : 2600$

The aero 15x is the one having to prove that it's MILES AHEAD of the P9XER to justify the price gap. Merely being "better"(in my opinion it isn't even that) won't cut it


**** over the P95XER for EC throttling cancer.

 

I'm not really seeing that. Most of the people love their Clevo machines and are rightfully disappointed when they mess up such an important machine as the P950 which replaces the pretty damn good P650.

Was the average. The average has shifted by the virtue of competition.

The pricing is better, but the compromises are too great. Previously, you could rely on some semblance of modularity or extra features that were fairly unique to Clevo such as MUX switches, or the ESS DAC on previous P650/P670 models, or superior storage and RAM options.
Those advantages are basically all gone with the P950. The only notably "unique" features it retains is the LTE+Sim slot and fingerprint readers.

You should have a careful look at the screenshots and data NBC have. It's all in the details and the most important one is missing. The Aero15x max voltage is only shown as 1.092V, but could easily be explained by the CPU never clocking up to anywhere near it's full turbo speed if it reaches temp throttling first. Fact is the "Clocks" tab on their screenshot is closed so we can't actually see what clockspeed it was running at for 1.09v. What we DO know, is that it maintains higher clocks throughout the stress test at the cost of temps.

You should also have a look at the Cinebench multi-run graphs.
Both the P950ER and GS65 start at over 100 points then drop down to 960/980 points on subsequent runs. The Aero consistently remains at 1110 points with drops to 1040 and 1070 which suggests and as the screenshots show, that it maintains a higher boost clock but at the cost of temperatures.

LM is not an option for many people and GentechPC is not the only Clevo reseller on the planet.

There's also something weird about the Gentech pricing which doesn't seem entirely accounted for by the panels being different (120hz only at Gentech whereas Sager are selling with 144hz panels).
A typical 16GB/500GB NVME configuration from Sager costs $1964 and the gap is no longer so small and more representative of what most Clevo resellers are doing. I'm also not in America so the gap between a P950 and competitors like the GS65/Aero15X is even smaller here.

We're going around in circles here. I'm not saying the Aero15X is the be-all and end-all of thin+light laptops but it's pretty well near the top when comparing all the models. It runs hotter, but you can always turn that down. The P950 is hamstrung out of the box and there's no way "up" from there for normal users.

I'd love to replace my P650RP with a new P950 but they're making it damn hard to do because it falls so short. Sure you save some money but you end up with an exceptionally mediocre laptop.

 

I actually understand what you're saying. The P650 is a superior laptop when compared with the P950.

And I'm probably second only to Danishblunt on ****ting on clevo and P950

Average as a gaming laptop. Below average in the thin and light laptops. I think we can all agree on that.

I agree It doesn't stand to compete with the P650(which is why the P650 was cancelled)

The LTE model is a gimmick. No one use that. To hell for both the LTE model and 2.5 slot.

I am getting used to the I7 8750H overheating. As that happens all the time. But I agree

Agree

That's resellers cutting corners. Here are the things sager cutted so far

180w PSU
144hz IPS

More over resellers over price their upgrades. A 500GB NVME from HIDevoultion is 299$ while a 970 evo will cost you 190$. Which is why the P950 is getting overpriced.

The aero 15x gets smashed by a razer in GPU and CPU performance. As the razer 90w 1070MQ doesn't thermal throttle.

As for the P95XER it Depends on how you look at it. Judging by what it is. It's a good budget 1070MQ machine. Depending on how it should have been it's trash

First they were designing it with the fat 1070. It had a loud cooling system but it could run the 1070 without throttling. since Max-Q was going to be the hot new cakes on the block they changed it to a 90w Max-Q . When nvidia introduced the 40db rule they had to lower it to an 80w 1070MQ to pass the Max-Q certification.

Clevo artificially crippled the hardware advantage they had over the competition.

They probably couldn't pay both the G-Sync and the Max-Q taxes(Max-Q so called "certification" is probably paid like G sync) so they dumped G-Sync. And without Gsync MUX was worthless.

Their desicion regarding keeping the 2.5' slot was a fatal mistake. Hopefully they aren't dumb enough to make it again.

The lake of TB3 is inexcusable.

It's not that bad. But the EC throttling **** up is too big for me to ignore, only premamod can save us. And until prema gets testers I believe the mod will take a long time.

Do you release how bad the EC throttling is ? You do release once EC throttling kicks in the 1070MQ is as slow as a 1060MQ .

EC throttling makes everything else the laptop suffers from a minor inconvenience.

I have high hopes for the next P950 refresh

 

This isn't true. You cannot power gate the dGPU via the PCIe lanes because it doesn't receive power through the PCIe lanes - it has its own power supply and VRMs that feed power directly into the chip.

 

The dGPU has a super deep sleep state with the memory bus disabled and the power drip feeding to it, it awakes to a command over PCI-E and powers on then.