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    How to upgrade the Phoenix (Clevo P870DM-G)from FHD to 4K (PICTURE GUIDE)

    Discussion in 'Sager and Clevo' started by Akaraah, Feb 4, 2016.

  1. Splintah

    Splintah Notebook Deity

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    Oh wow, bad Clevo. Bad.

    Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
     
  2. victorwol

    victorwol Notebook Consultant

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    Even to install the SSDs there is significant amount of screws to remove and the whole bottom needs to come off. Same to swap the battery. Let's say you will not change the battery for a spare. It is more like a giant capacitor so you can move the computer from room to room. :)
     
  3. Akaraah

    Akaraah Notebook Consultant

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    Thank ye'! It was a both an accurate depiction of events should you attempt the teardown yourself AND an educational piece since I know others wanted to do the same thing as me but felt intimidated by the prospect.

    Indeed, you can remove the screen without a complete teardown of the laptop but the EDP cable that you connect to the screen runs through the hinge and into the right-speaker area and from there to the MOBO. There's no way to remove the standard EDP cable and replace it with the 4K EDP cable without completely dismantling the machine, unfortunately.
     
  4. victorwol

    victorwol Notebook Consultant

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    well... the beast is on its way to Eurocom... will report with a full detailed calibration and panel characterization once I get it back.
     
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  5. Akaraah

    Akaraah Notebook Consultant

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    G-SYNC is now possible with the 4K panel. And I had the honor and privilege to be the first 980m (mobile variant) user/tester thanks to Prema magic and my G-sync GPUs! :D

    Prema's twitter post: https://twitter.com/PremaMod/status/708577586574524416

    Please be sure to share and like his post to support his efforts (and donate if you so choose)

    Here are some screen grabs below:

    Now it's possible for all 4K users to enjoy G-sync provided they have the G-sync GPUs already (and bios magic)!

    Screenshot 2016-03-12 02.37.55.png Screenshot 2016-03-12 02.38.10.png Screenshot 2016-03-12 02.44.59.png

    Again, this is fantastic and I definitely wanted to share knowing others might want to do the same thing and don't want to compromise between 4K and G-sync! :D
     
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  6. Meaker@Sager

    Meaker@Sager Company Representative

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    Very cool, 4k and g-sync is a nice combo for 980M SLI, you'll really have the GPUs working for their lunch ;)
     
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  7. victorwol

    victorwol Notebook Consultant

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    That's pretty cool! Looks like the scaling of HDPI is pretty good, I could not tell that yih are at 4K but the icons size and font size. That's cool!

    One thing that is weird, not sure if the screenshot is in the right tab, or if it is because you have the M version of the GPUs, I was able to see on the Nvidia panel, the bit depth of the connected screen and both depth of the desktop, like when I connect the Eizo and the laptop at the same time, it showed me "desktop : 32 bits" Monitor output "6" bits for the crappy HD LCD and "desktop : 32 bits" and Monitor output "10" bits of the Eizo and I could change it to 8 if I wanted.

    I'm curious if that is probably on the Adjust color desktop tab or setup multiple screens tab, I'm curious if you see "8" bits for your 4K display.
     
  8. Akaraah

    Akaraah Notebook Consultant

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    Yeah. I have an output of 8bpc. :) Here's another screen grab:

    Screenshot 2016-03-12 09.50.19.png
     
  9. victorwol

    victorwol Notebook Consultant

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  10. Akaraah

    Akaraah Notebook Consultant

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    Yeah, I wanted to see how far I could overclock and 63Hz was the limit otherwise it black-screens. I wouldn't recommend leaving it at 63Hz on this panel because if you leave it at 63Hz and put it to sleep and then wake you'll see minor graphical glitches. The one disappointement with the 4K display if any compared to the 1080p which I managed to get to 100Hz with no issues whatsoever. Hopefully in the near-future another G-sync 4K panel comes along that can reach 75Hz or more.

    Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2016
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  11. Meaker@Sager

    Meaker@Sager Company Representative

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    The controller has to work a lot harder of course so there will be less leeway, we need the next generation for that.
     
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  12. victorwol

    victorwol Notebook Consultant

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    So I got the machine today, I gotta say it is pretty impressive, but I have HUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUGE issue with it that I hope is a glitch or something fixable, (crossing my finguers here) I can not adjust the brightness of the screen, it is full power, full brightness, like looking at the sun, and of course, a screen that can not have the brigthness adjusted, can not be calibrated, ever...... could this be a BIOS glitch?
     
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  13. Akaraah

    Akaraah Notebook Consultant

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    Glad you got your machine finally! A beast, all-around machine if I do say so myself! At the moment I have the same issue with the brightness (can't adjust it either). For now I'd suggest re-installing control center and see if that works (didn't for me but you should also try a clean install and tell me if that fixes if so I can follow-suit).

    I talked to @Prema about it a while ago so I'm sure he's aware that there's an issue somewhere that needs fixing in the bios. If you have the prema bios as well you can consult with him and your re-seller about it as well. If there are more issues please let him and Eurocom know so that they can identify and then fix the issue. The more awareness there is the better and the faster a fix can be made. For now I'm just waiting for an update from Prema on the matter. :)

    Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk
     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2016
  14. victorwol

    victorwol Notebook Consultant

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    he suggested doing what says in here:

    http://nikramakrishnan.blogspot.in/2013/03/nvidia-graphics-card-display-brightness.html

    but I can't seem to be able to add the "0x800" value mentioned on step 6.. I hope is just a software thing and not a hardware limitation, 320 NITs are way ove the 120 I need to calibrate the monitor for work, for gaming is OK, but for work, will never match a print or what others see on their computers.
     
  15. victorwol

    victorwol Notebook Consultant

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    Prema is already emailing me options, great person...
     
  16. victorwol

    victorwol Notebook Consultant

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    Just have to see if I have the guts to reflash BIOS. It's scares the c..... Out of me. :))))). The panel is beautiful, I just need it 50% less bright and would be PERFECT.

    I still have my other Sager which is not that old and I'm working with that for now, was the top of the line 2 years ago. Can't remember the model now.
     
  17. Akaraah

    Akaraah Notebook Consultant

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    Awesome. Please let me know what ends up working and what you had to do to fix it. That way I can also be rid of this brightness issue. :)

    Also, if you don't mind me asking, what sort of work are you intending to use the phoenix for? :) Not judging, but unless you work at pixar; 3D art/animation or some scientific research/discipline, it seems overkill. XD

    Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk
     
  18. Akaraah

    Akaraah Notebook Consultant

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    Follow this link to Prema's blog and this guide should help: https://biosmods.wordpress.com/flashing-guide/
    Though there should be a readme file that's also included that'll help. Let me know if you're successful and if you're able to adjust brightness again since he's sending you whatever it is you need. :)
     
  19. victorwol

    victorwol Notebook Consultant

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    I've being working on the visual effects industry for already 25 years. I'm 45!!!! If you google Victor Wolansky you will find much of my work.

    At the office on my desk I have an HP z800, a z820 and a z840. Do a lot of compositing, 3D tracking, animation, photorealistic rendering, etc etc... But this machine is for home, where I have a photography studio


    https://www.facebook.com/victorw.photo/

    http://www.victorwolanskyphoto.com

    And I print a lot, so I'm a calibration fanatic.... Or course I can't expect a laptop to have the precision of an Eizo monitor, but I like to work seating on my couch and then do the fine work connected to the Eizo, I was able to do that with the old Sager, but not with this one with the regular display. Is way off... I'm pro filing this one right now to see the errors, of course is going to be off because the ultra brightness, but I bet the gamut will be much better.
     
  20. victorwol

    victorwol Notebook Consultant

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    Impressive gamut!!!! have to check the individual colors errors, but a delta average of 0.21 and a max of 1.22 is crazy good.... it actually goes beyond Adobe RGB by a bit... 88% DCI is a great number.... will profile the individual colors and post it....




    Screen.JPG
     
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  21. Akaraah

    Akaraah Notebook Consultant

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    Awesome! Can't wait for you to share your profile since it could help other would-be and aspiring artists like myself. :D If you'd like I can attach it to the guide on one of my beginning posts for others to use who choose to look through the first page of the tutorial to more easily spot it (crediting you and your solemn contribution, of course). Your choice. :)

    Afterall, a great majority of the would-be browsers of this thread seem to be more artsy types...

    Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk
     
  22. victorwol

    victorwol Notebook Consultant

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    here is the report.... too large to post it as an image. Almost perfect.

    Once I have it fixed and working fine I have no problem to share profiles, of course, that need to be taken with a grain of salt, because each screen is unique and have variations, and it depends for what you are going to use it, print, photography, your lighting conditions, etc.... bu we can make a feew for different uses and lighting conditions. Most people do not realize but, the temperature of the light behind you changes totally the perception of the color rendition, some times I have problems with gold pieces I photograph in which the client see something totally different than me because I have a D65 light and they have a regular incandescent lamp.
     

    Attached Files:

  23. victorwol

    victorwol Notebook Consultant

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    Hope not to brick it... Is there an emergency recovery mode just in case? (I tend to attract Murphys laws)
     
  24. Akaraah

    Akaraah Notebook Consultant

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    There are stock bios on clevo repo and you can always back up the bios if you have the right software. :) To enter recovery I believe you have to hold F8 or F9 and the menu should come up.

    Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk
     
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2016
  25. victorwol

    victorwol Notebook Consultant

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    Did you lose your raid settings when you update the Bios? My OS is on a RAID 0 and my secondary data drive is also on RAID 0.

    Any software you recommend to make the bootable flash drive?
     
  26. Akaraah

    Akaraah Notebook Consultant

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    Nah, I lost my raid from dismantling the laptop and putting it back together (having to physically remove and re-install the 2.5 SSDs). After the second time that ended up happening I decided to not keep RAID 0 because I had a ton of my games library stored in RAID and couldn't afford to have to re-download everything over and over again after loss (I'm limited to 1TB a month and if I go over I get charged extra). Thankfully my media and content creation apps are all stored on my OS and media drives (my two m.2 950 pros).

    Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk
     
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2016
  27. Akaraah

    Akaraah Notebook Consultant

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    As for a bootable flashdrive, try RUFUS 2.7 (the latest version). :)

    Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk
     
  28. bloodhawk

    bloodhawk Derailer of threads.

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    Holy **** this is amazing, i didn't know the 4k AUO was this good.
    Im tempted to order and install it on my own now.
    Will you be able to create a separate thread posting your impressions etc about the display. It would be of great help to people like me who need color accuracy for Visual Effects and Photo realistic renders.
    People are mostly looking for a good looking display for games, but very few care about the actual gamut range and accuracy.
    It wont be as good as my Eizo for sure, but at least i will be able to do some work in my bed lol.
     
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  29. Akaraah

    Akaraah Notebook Consultant

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    I second this @victorwol ;)
    Seeing as you're a photographer and rendering extraordinaire it'd be a great help to those of us less savvy in making determinations on this. I intend to get more into design and animation in the not too distant future once I go to school (enlisted in the military at the moment but I'm aiming to start attending SCAD hopefully during fall 2017). It'd be awesome if you could go more in-depth and give your expertise. It'd be time-consuming I'm sure but worth the endeavor.

    If you want to make a separate thread providing info on the panel and your calibrations I'd definitely try to adjust this thread with links to it. It'd make sense so your posts don't get lost amongst others in this thread for those who need it.

    Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk
     
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  30. victorwol

    victorwol Notebook Consultant

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    just finished to install a BIOS that let me control the brightness, but still have another one to test tomorrow that might give me better control over it. I did a quick profiling and is great, but I'm wasted for today, I will post more findings and tests and delta error is really low, and it really covers 100% and is pretty well calibrated from factory, the correction curves are not that complicated. I will run some more test and post the PDFs, I just need to be rested so I'm sure I'm not posting BS :)))))

    Have to say that Prema is an awesome person and helped me a LOT!!!!!
     
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  31. victorwol

    victorwol Notebook Consultant

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    uncalibrated response at 130 CDM ... contrast 1120:1 more than my Eizo CG277

    21:52:35,644
    21:52:35,874 DisplayCAL: Starting interaction with subprocess
    21:52:35,881 Argyll 'V1.8.3' Build 'MSWin 64 bit' System 'Windows V10.0 SP 0'
    21:52:35,884 Setting up the instrument
    21:52:35,885 Instrument Type: ColorMunki
    21:52:35,887 Serial Number: 2068383
    21:52:35,888 Firmware version: 288
    21:52:35,888 Chip ID: 01-5530C51600005F
    21:52:35,891 Version string: 'colormunki FW V1.32 Build Nr. 1303'
    21:52:35,891 Calibration Ver.: 6
    21:52:35,892 Production No.: 105619
    21:52:36,007 Display type ignored - instrument doesn't support display type selection
    21:52:36,233
    21:52:36,234 Set instrument sensor to calibration position,
    21:52:36,236 and then hit any key to continue,
    21:52:36,240 DisplayCAL: Waiting for send buffer
    21:52:41,933 DisplayCAL: Sending buffer: ' '
    21:52:41,936 or hit Esc or Q to abort:
    21:52:44,999 Calibration complete
    21:52:44,999
    21:52:45,049 Place instrument on test window.
    21:52:45,052 DisplayCAL: Waiting for send buffer
    21:52:50,993 DisplayCAL: Sending buffer: ' '
    21:52:50,994 Hit Esc or Q to give up, any other key to continue:
    21:52:53,635 Measured display update delay of 53 msec, using delay of 170 msec & 0 msec inst
    21:52:53,635 reaction
    21:53:06,121 Patch 3 of 3
    21:53:44,740 Patch 17 of 17
    21:53:44,740 Uncalibrated response:
    21:53:44,740 Black level = 0.1170 cd/m^2
    21:53:44,742 50% level = 22.06 cd/m^2
    21:53:44,742 White level = 131.12 cd/m^2
    21:53:44,742 Aprox. gamma = 2.57
    21:53:44,743 Contrast ratio = 1120:1
    21:53:44,743 White chromaticity coordinates 0.3230, 0.3314
    21:53:44,743 White Correlated Color Temperature = 5954K, DE 2K to locus = 1.0
    21:53:44,743 White Correlated Daylight Temperature = 5957K, DE 2K to locus = 5.6
    21:53:44,746 White Visual Color Temperature = 5983K, DE 2K to locus = 1.0
    21:53:44,746 White Visual Daylight Temperature = 6142K, DE 2K to locus = 5.4
    21:53:44,746 Effective Video LUT entry depth seems to be 8 bits
    21:53:44,746 The instrument can be removed from the screen.
    21:53:44,963 DisplayCAL: Reached EOF (OK)
     
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  32. Akaraah

    Akaraah Notebook Consultant

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    Good to know he helped you out and the bios installation went well to the point that you can control brightness again. That's why I'm going to donate to him again at the end of the month for all of his aid. :)

    Take your time profiling, don't use more energy than you need though many more will be excited to see your findings for the panel. With the addition of the 4K panel and its incredible color gamut and G-sync, this is pretty close to perfection for me in a laptop form (well, it has no waterproofing and it doesn't have an infinite battery or nanobots/nanites that forever cause the computer to evolve but I digress, lol)
     
  33. bloodhawk

    bloodhawk Derailer of threads.

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    I think the main reason why its more than the Eizo is because of the pixel density. Ill be bugging you about a few things, im planning on getting a panel and installing it myself. YGPM.

    Hell yeah, amazing person @Prema is. Im just waiting on this month to end so that i can get my paycheck :D
     
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  34. victorwol

    victorwol Notebook Consultant

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    Mm.... Not sure if pixel density makes a difference, contrast ratio is in fact based on how white the white can be against the blackest you can go, at a regular working of 130, I like it a bit brighter than the regular 120, the black point is actually blacker than the Eizo, now for sure it won't bit the 16 bits LUT hardware of the Eizo and the real 10 bits panel. I love the emulation modes of the Eizo where you can use the ColorMunki to measure let's say an iPad and make your Eizo show you how your image would look on that device.

    Working with wide gamut monitors though is a bit dangerous because if you don't use the right profiles on your programs you might end seeing images that looks wonderful on your screen but totally dull or super saturated on regular machines, and let's face it, most people have crappy monitors.

    At least Photoshop and Lightroom are pretty good at it. I'm usually work everything in ProPhoto to retain most of the color space of the RAW files, since Phophoto is so wide that goes beyond the visible spectrum, it can actually retain information beyond white and under black, and my main camera is a Pentax 645Z that gives me like 14 stops of dynamic range, imagine working that with a 6 bits panel. Ughhhhh. And I do most of my work on the laptop, don't like desks, I'm already at a desk for many hours at my day job, so when I edit images I like to do in my recliner :))))
     
  35. victorwol

    victorwol Notebook Consultant

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    I'm really not seeking that much advantage on the G-Sync thing....
     
  36. Meaker@Sager

    Meaker@Sager Company Representative

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    Also with printing you have to have your colour profile to match the printer as well, it's not always having the highest but having things in sync that's the most important.

    G-sync will vary by user by the amount of benefit but on the whole it is nice to have.
     
  37. victorwol

    victorwol Notebook Consultant

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    Yes, you are right, all the paper I use comes from manufacturers that provides ICC profiles for their papers and high end printers, but if you are using a monitor that shows you totally different hues of color like the default HD panel, no calibration whatsoever is going to help you, of course, this does not matter much to the regular user, but when you are taking photos for example of diamonds, or sapphires, or enameled pieces, and the blue shades are purple, and the gamma curve of the display have the shape of a serrated knife, that's a huge problem, that's why I'm surprised of the selection of panel, I guess by Clevo right? For the HD one. It's like they created a Ferrari and they put cheap refurbished tires on it... It makes no sense. The machine I got 3 years ago, the last beast one they made, that actually the CPU is almost as powerful as the current model, had a screen that was also really bad, but adjustable, because had a wide gamut, it had a native white point of like 8000 Kelvin which is terrible, but the wide gamut allowed the adjust,met to 6500, trying to go to 5000 was pushing too much, but the cost of this was banding and artifacts.

    I decided to change to this 4K display, I'm fact incorrectly called 4K, is UHD since is not really 4096 wide :) , because of the better gamut and being a real 8 bits vs 6 bits panel, and not because of the resolution, having 4K packed into a 17 inches monitor, such density of pixels is kind of a waste of resources of the GPU, and many might think I'm crazy here, go ahead, call me nuts :) but our eyes have such thing as a limit in the resolution we can appreciate, the minimum size of detail we can see without having it blurred with the next detail to the left or right, and such thing can actually be calculated, but I won't get into those details here since will take a 10 pages post to explain it, but I can ask permission to my friend who took the time to explain it in Facebook and post it if you people are interested. Sorry if my English gets a bit weird, My brain works in Spanish. Well, I was saying, at a normal viewing distance for a 17 inches monitor, and with a 20/20 vision, you might appreciate a bit more resolution, but most people don't have 20/20 specially when you have age enough to make the money to buy this things, probably your eyes already got some miles of being in front of monitors, like my 25 years of working in front of computers already have made my vision suffer its consequences, but I get a good vision with glasses, anyway, mostly the thing that impress you the more when you see a 4K TV at Costco right to a regular HD, is not the pixel density, but the expanded gamut and dynamic range.

    So, working with the screen at 4K is in fact a kind of annoyance for me, I have to zoom in the hell out of images to see that scratch on the gold that need to be retouched, and specially if I'm going to print it on a 44 inches wide printer like the one I have, the density on the 4K resolution actually will hide imperfections I would see working on a 1920 resolution, or a 4K but 30" :)

    This whole war of pixels makes no sense, cameras with 8K sensors when there is actually not a single optic that can actually reach that level of definition on an area of 35mm or less like the sensors of the RED cameras, if we were talking of medium format sensors, then you can get more detail without hitting the diffraction limit of the optics and having pixels of the sensor recording actually exactly the same information because the circle of confusion of the optic is bigger than the actual pixel pitch of the sensor.

    Cameras like the 5DSR which pack 50 MP in a sensor that is 35 mm are already limited to an +/- f8 maximum before starting to get blurry, and this is not really because of a cheap glass, this applies to any optic.


    Ahahah... I like to talk right?


    In short, like you said, highest is not always important but consistency is, it is just impossible to have consistency with the regular HD panel of this machine, without trying to offend anyone, is just plain BAD for any Profesional or even hobbiest (is that the word?) serious about color user.

    I'm glad I found this thread, and the guys at Eurocom and Prema and the OP of this thread, because I was extremelly dissapointed. I think every vendor of this Clevo machine should offer the 4K panel and highly recommend it, unless a better HD option is found. I think I will personally take it instead of the 4K. Of course, if is anot another 8000 kelvin native panel :)


    Lastly, I know I'm not the average user, so this post is more sharing of experience than trying to influence people into what to get or not, many people having this machine probably will be like what the heck is this guy talking about?

    Thanks for reading.
     
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  38. bloodhawk

    bloodhawk Derailer of threads.

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    Exactly, my thoughts. I have to work on 4K footage so many times , its just plain annoying. Its takes insane amounts of resources for very little gain. Its not like there are any media formats available yet for mass distribution of 4K Movies. Other than online streaming. Even then its too much bandwidth for too little gained.
    Before this whole "4K" craze , i used to get stock footage in 2K res, which gave you good room to crop , composite and what nots. Point being it was more than enough, and didnt eat up the system memory like my slobby house mate eating ribs.
    Same goes for the Mega Pixel war, its just going because it gives people editing freedom. Some argue that you get the option of cropping and framing your shot later on. Dont get me wrong, to each his own, but if you cant composite a shot on the spot, i don think you really should have that high end a camera. (This is debatable, but just my 2 cents)

    As far as the FHD panels are concerned, even some of the $1500 notebooks (or ultrabooks?) come with panels that have good 99% adobe coverage. How hard is it to implement some of those designs? Its the same bloody size.
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2016
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  39. victorwol

    victorwol Notebook Consultant

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    I think this is Clevo trying to make the price as low as possible, being most of the users gamers (without any disrespect) that wont notice or wont care about a delta error... hahaha.... but even some of those panels advertised as 99% adobe coverage, have 6 bits only, so yes, you get the covrage, but the banding????

    I work a lot with RED cameras, I always shoot at full res, because is the only way to get the full FL of the lens and not a crop, and most people think if you shot it at 6K the you should be able to do a crop to 1:1, use the 1920x1080 center and have a beautiful image, and when they see it all fuzzy the think that the DP didn't focused correctly, and is hard to explain that the lens / size of sensor is the issue....

    this is a spot I finished recently, LOTS of 6K layers.... like really a LOT, done in Flame and Lustre, 3DS MAX and VRAY

    https://www.facebook.com/e3post/videos/vb.248325649098/10153936885269099

    Here is a fun one:

    https://www.facebook.com/e3post/videos/vb.248325649098/10153920612669099

    Having the 6K in this case was very useful because allowed me to pre-calculate the position of the camera and desks to be able to do the cloning without to have to move the camera at all, and it looks good when you see the finished HD product, but if you crop 1:1 and see the faces of the people you will think it is out of focus, and is not, it just the sensor can't capture more detail. One of the reasons why som manufacturers of video cameras are using 2K sensors and upscaling to 4K by software and you can't tell the difference.

    I own 4 cameras (photo) all high res machines, but when comparing the 50 MP of the 5DSR vs the 50 MP of the Pentax 645Z with a $5K lens for medium format, or even a cheap $1K old 120mm Macro, the Pentax kills the Canon or even the Sony A7RII

    here is a little thing I wrote about the Pentax

    http://www.victorwolanskyphoto.com/#!Pentax-645Z-new-joy/c1ti3/0EE731A4-B156-486A-A1D1-BA93B75FCDF9

    and here is another crazy thing I did, and all is processed with these Clevo machines (Sager in these cases)

    http://www.victorwolanskyphoto.com/#!The-invisible-neck/c1ti3/33755DA7-7AAA-4573-B838-4D52E62D71C9
     
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  40. bloodhawk

    bloodhawk Derailer of threads.

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    WOW, your work is just amazing.
    Specially loved the Loan Video, in scenarios like these i understand the usage, because you are adding and not being lazy by shooting too much to take stuff out later on, which i just hate when DP's and/or directors do. Specially for low budget productions.
    I still have so much to learn and hope that i can reach your caliber one day (25 years maybe? :D )
    And you dont you dare say anything about my A7R MK2, i love it more than my GF. (i hope she doesn't read this)
     
  41. victorwol

    victorwol Notebook Consultant

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    I love my A7R II also, there are some photos I took at night in Baltimore a few weeks ago, and the quality is fantastic, as long as you don't go beyond f8 or f10.... After f10 sharpens will suffer, at f16 is unusable for my standards. The fact that with the new Metabones you can use Canon lenses pretty much as fast as the native glass is something awesome. I was using it with the new Canon 11-22 L which is a massive lens for that camera, but the fact that have pretty much no distortion at 11mm is something spectacular. Still have the A7R MK 1 that have to sell with its Metabones... Just lazy to put it on eBay.

    We kind of starting talking about nothing related to the original thread, will that be a problem here? I don't want to make things confusing.

    There is a lot more information available today to learn, when I started 25 years ago, Internet was a thing that many didn't knew what it was... We used modems with phones... Software was downloaded from BBS forums I think they were called? Used FAX instead of email.... Now. I'm in my bed with my laptop which is as powerful as a desktop and probably 1000 faster than the Dec Alpha Raptors 266MHZ I used with Lightwave and Softimage|3D while someone on the other side of the planet is modifiying a BIOS so I can have proper brightness on my screen and send it back to me with a link that I can download and install in seconds.... When I started if I needed someone to do something like that I had to be VERY lucky to find that person, it would probably work on a dark basement and have huge flux capacitors. Hahahah.

    So learning these days is a lot easier, everything is there, ask a kid, or even you, not sure your age, what would you do without Google?


    I feel like a dinosaur.
     
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  42. bloodhawk

    bloodhawk Derailer of threads.

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    Id be sleeping with a book on my head. or reading manuals and data sheets while taking a dump lol .
    Good point about going off topic. Lets keep it at a minimum. :D

    Im 28 btw.
     
  43. victorwol

    victorwol Notebook Consultant

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    Well... I just discovered something I do not like at all.... and not sure yet if something I screwed testing or is a problem of the screen. it will sound stupid, but if you do artwork over full white like for e-commerce, the difference between full white 255,255,255 and 254,254,254 is HUGE, like visible from 2 blocks away.... not sure if is because I'm using it at a lower brightness than the full brightness or what, but is a dealbreaker.... :-((((( The calibration testing didn't noticed because it does not run a test of every single lever but some color patches... I will test it better with just a white full scale and report what is gooing on. Like I said, it sounds stupid, but if you make in Photoshop an image full white 255,255,255 and in the center you make a shape with 254,254,254 you should not see it or at least have a huge problem to see it, in this case looks like if the 254,254,254 was actually 230,230,230..... and I'm doing it with and without calibration loaded, and is there anyway...

    May be @Akraah can test it if have photoshop or any application for illustration???
     
  44. victorwol

    victorwol Notebook Consultant

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    here is taken with a camera because you would not see it is I save the file because the difference is not really there, is just the gamma curve of this panel seems to have a HUGE bump on the top ... this should be barely vissible. And tested at full brightness too, so it is not a brightness or calibration issue, since I cleaned the LUT of the GPU File Mar 20, 9 05 04 PM.jpeg
     
  45. bloodhawk

    bloodhawk Derailer of threads.

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    This is how it looks on the FGD panel. The difference is not that visible at 40% brightness.
    Attached a photo taken using a potato.
     

    Attached Files:

  46. victorwol

    victorwol Notebook Consultant

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    That is more lie it should be. Almost not visible. Not even the cheap regular HD or my old laptop or my cheap HP touch does that. You can have a 100% coverage of whatever , but if the gamma curve makes a jump of 10% aprox in the last bit, that's a huge defect. Kind of like I want my money back problem.

    I hope is a glitch on the bios or something on the driver.... Or a failed display ... Someone else need to test this on this panel. It's not worth the money if is like this.

    So let's hope I'm doing something wrong.
     
  47. bloodhawk

    bloodhawk Derailer of threads.

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    What does it look like after increasing the brightness?
    And what brightness was the photo taken?

    I have seen insane white/gray inaccuracy with my old U2410 at <60% Brightness/Contrast.
     
  48. victorwol

    victorwol Notebook Consultant

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    The higher the brightness the worst it gets. This photo was taking at 100% brightness. But it looks like that at any brightness. I'm surprised I didn't caught this sooner. May be because it's a very strange thing, never seen it so bad, and usually when programs test grayscale, they do it like from 10 to 10 and not at every single step, that would be just 255 measures just for gray, it would take forever. I don't know what to say. This creates banding on anything that is over full whitek
     
  49. victorwol

    victorwol Notebook Consultant

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    Something that I noticed don't know if could be a problem, is that the driver should let me choose to set the panel to either 6 bits or 8 bits and after the last BIOS I installed, it only shows me 8 bits, I'm wonder if is not stuck at 6 bits showing that is at 8. Still makes no sense the difference of bits with the peak on the gamma curve at the top end which is clearly wrong either on this panel, the BIOS, the driver or a desig flaw of the panel. When I downloaded and readed the specs of this panel from the manufacturer measuring was almost perfect and I can't believe they should not seen this, anyone doing product photography for Amazon would see it in half a second. I was so impressed with the color that I skipped this basic test.
     
  50. bloodhawk

    bloodhawk Derailer of threads.

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    Yeah, that is weird as hell, the crappy FHD at full brightness still retains very slight difference if you know what you are looking for . Other wise its not noticeable. Im not sure if this is a good thing or bad thing, but the color coverage on this FHD panel is ****ty at best and there was a Reddish cast when i got it, took me 2 hours to get rid of it. So the 4K panel will be an insane upgrade for me.
     
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