ISTNC.com - reliability?

Hi guys

I was looking over some other reseller to see what they offer, besides other excellent resellers, like (powernotebooks.com) and came across this reseller. They seem like they deal directly with Clevo and not Sager. What is the difference?
Also - how realible are they - did any of you have had enjoyable/bad experiance with them. I looked on resellerratings.com and they do have positive feedbacks but they are not that recent.

Please let me know if you had any issues, comments, good/bad/ugly with them.

Thank you

 

ISTNC.com are very reliable and have excellent customer service.

 

ISTNC is very reliable indeed. Some of our posters have ordered from them and they recieve great feedback.

 

ISTNC actually buys their Clevo units from Eurocom, not Clevo. The only issue to consider is that warranty issues that ISTNC cannot fix themselves will have to go back to Eurocom in Canada for repair. This could add considerable time to the repair process.

 

Aha!

I knew there would be something! Thank you Donald for your comment.

That is a definite NO-NO for me with their warranty

Then PowerNotebooks it is - you guys are the BEST!

 

I recently spoke with Rick, the owner of ISTNC, where I pre-ordered my M570U. He says they order their units directly from Clevo, not from Eurocom, and that other resellers sometimes claim such things to get sales. Take what you read with a grain of salt.

Mine was just shipped from Taiwan on Friday.

 

I would caution you from making defamatory statements on a public forum.

Unfortunately Rick is not telling you the truth. ISTNC does not buy directly from Clevo and while they may like to make that claim, there is no way they can prove it because they simply do not, and when you then publish their falsehood with a statement like "...other resellers sometimes claim such things to get sales. Take what you read with a grain of salt..." you are continuing the defamation with an accusation against other resellers that is not true that could lead to their damage.

While I appreciate your desire to protect ISTNC, you are dealing in matters about which you know only what ISTNC tells you. Further, they do not need your protection...they are perfectly cabable of making their own claims and answering here themselves.

I am curious though, are you suggesting that Clevo just shipped yours directly to you, are is the claim that it is being shipped from Clevo directly to ISTNC?

 

We're approching a flame-war fellas... step back a second.

I don't believe Vlad was trying to imply that you were lying, Donald. There was nothing defamatory to you in his post. his statements were general, and as far as competitive business practices, are very common no matter what the product. There is no reason to take his post personally.

After all, he has no more reason to believe what you say is true than he does to believe what ISTNC says.
You and ISTNC are competitors, and Vlad is getting differing info from you and from ISTNC. Who is he to believe? And why should he put more stock in your words (being a direct competitor to ISTNC) than in what ISTNC tells him directly?

ISTNC says they buy direct from Clevo.
You call ISTNC liars.
You say they buy from Eurocom.
Can you prove your statement?
Unless you can, then you are just as guilty of making defamatory statements as ISTNC.

"Take... with a grain of salt" applies to everyone.

 

I am not interested in a flame war, but I am interested in protecting PowerNotebooks.com against defamation.

Please re-read my post carefully as it was very carefully written.

The point is that unless either ISTNC or Vlad can prove that what they are saying "...other resellers sometimes claim such things to get sales. Take what you read with a grain of salt..." is true, that statement is defamatory.

I say let Rick come on this forum and in writting make his claim that ISTNC is buying directly from Clevo, and that other resellers sometimes claim such things to get sales, and offer his own proof.

I also say that Vlad should protect himself by staying out of it. Rick is perfectly capable of stating his own case.

 

I understand that your insterest is in protecting PN.
But you can't protect PN by making similarly defamatory statements against ISTNC.

You explicitly called Rick at ISTNC a liar.

And if you have no explicit proof that ISTNC buys from Eurocom, then you should not have made that statement to start with.

 

You are correct. I was quite explicit.

My statement was not at all defamatory in that it is the TRUTH.

If any representative of ISTNC can prove that it is not the truth I will not only stand corrected, I will stand for any damage it may have caused ISTNC.

 

So you say. We have no reason not to believe you, but no reason to believe you either.

Admirable, but what happens if no one shows up? Win by default doesn't really mean anything, as you still haven't proved your claims.

 

My integrity and the integrity of PowerNotebooks.com will stand on its own.

At this point, I have said all that needs to be said.

 

Alright, let's just lay off this right here . . 'nuff has been said.

 

Donald's reputation on this forum is very high, and I personally put more faith in his claims because of that.
I have a great deal of respect for Donald and his company. If I ever get around to buying a laptop, it will likely be from PN.

But, the fact remains that he made claims about ISTNC and gave no proof to back those claims. His only proof is the logical fallacy of "appeal to authority", whereby we are to believe him based soley on his standing in this community.

That is the point of my posting. No one, forum veteran, business owner, or first time poster, should be making claims that they do not have proof to back up.
All I am asking for is proof.

 

Wow, I come back a couple days later and find I nearly started a war.

I said nothing defamatory about any specific individual or reseller. Also, I am not attempting to protect ISTNC -- nor do I appreciate such conclusions being erroniously drawn. Rather, my goal is to give all of the other readers of this forum the same piece of information that has been provided to me. Now everybody has two opposing unverified pieces of information to consider. Until some actual proof comes out, however, I will still put my faith (note that faith is all it is, since nobody has been able to verify anything) in Rick.

Regarding the shipping question, I meant that Clevo just shipped out the load of bare M570Us to ISTNC, of which one will become mine. All pre-order customers recently got an email update. Sorry if I was unclear about that.

 

Well

Here is my experiance with them. Not purchasing, but just asking questions

I noticed on their web that they still had 5720 available with $100 discount, but it said out of stock, so I called them to see if they have. Not sure who I spoke with, but they cahcked and said that they have two last one coming next week so I can go ahead and order it online. Then I inquired about $100 discount - at first this person did not know what I was talking about and said something like: "I thought that they took it away after new core due was introduced". I said no, and I can still see it on the web as available. He said let me double check. he came back but said nothing and told me to go ahead and order one. However, after I got off the phone - I noticed that this laptop was taken out of the website completely. I can click on it, but it shows blank page. So, I guess, he misinformed me about this 2 last laptops being available and took this promotion, as well as laptop, off the page the minute I called.
It looks like they did not want me to get a discount on it and took it off the web. You see, small things like that tell me to be cautious. I am not saying they are not reliable, but why would they do that after telling me to order one???

So, this is my experiance with them...

Please note that I was not trying to imply anything, just stating my point of view, as all other here on this thread, so please do not respond to this message with your defensive attacks and just take it as an FYI message.

 

i am interested in this subject and i will make my own unbiased research on this in the future and report back to you all. im not sure why the sales structures of clevos developed in this way when no other odms did.
the company eurocomm sells clevos and adds their own brand.

it would be entirely true to claim that istnc gets their laptops from clevo even if they buy them from eurocomm. I mean I dont want to argue about somantics. they probably pay eurocomm for x % of next shipment and it ships right to them, doesnt go to canada.

I DONT KNOW that they buy them from eurocomm. They say they buy them from WHOEVER SELLS THEM! thats good enough for me lol!

I think they would buy them from alienware, I think they would buy them from kmart.

certain companies are buying the clevo laptop in quantity. small companies such as powernotebooks and istnc could not buy enough to get a large enough discount. so within this particular odms chain of sales there are middle men for some reason it does not have its own world marketing sort of business, its just whoever steps up and does it.

sager buys them, sells them and also resells them. it makes the people who buy them from them keep its name on them though, this is its unique take on the laptop market. like buying a sony that says toshiba?
I havent actually ever found any reseller other than istnc that sells it as a clevo but nm.
they buy them from whoever, their claim is merely this : because they dont buy them from sager they dont have to put a sager stamp on it. it comes to them as a clevo.

donald probably keeps up to date on everyone who buys the clevo shipments just to check if he is getting it cheaper from sager than the other companies that bought them so he might have more info on who bought all of the 570u I dont think its that relevant.


ok and what difference is there between a sager and a clevo?

its a stamp. sager makes nothing.

anyhow you all arent arguing about anything but are getting in trouble with minor word details. donald is telling you that istnc is a business exactly like his, it does nothing different at all and has no special deal but he also doesnt want to educate you on the marketing level because you are a consumer. So whatever maybe I helped you all translate a little lol.

Ill be back down the road with some easier facts for people who like to see facts.

 

Not bad at all: http://www.resellerratings.com/seller9617.html .

 

I am going to write istnc a letter and whoever answers it will be their spokesman here in the forum on a few questions.

 

stamar, I am not sure where to begin because several of the things you said are not accurate. I don't want to flame, so please take my comments as purely educational.

There are only 4 companies in North America that deal directly with Clevo. They are Sager, ProStar, Alienware and Eurocom. All other companies you see that offer the Clevo product buy them from one of those companies. Since DELL just bought Alienware you can rest assured that resellers do not buy from them (actually they never did before DELL bought them either). This only leaves Sager, ProStar and Eurocom from which any of the companies that you see selling the Clevo product in North American can make their purchases, and upon whom we all rely for warranty parts and repairs beyond our own capabilities.

There are many companies that buy from all three of these companies, including Sager, and then re-brand the product. When you buy from Sager you do not have to use their brand.

ISTNC's claim is that they buy DIRECTLY from Clevo and do not go through Sager, ProStar or Eurocom. This is not a matter of semantics. The issue is not whether this is Clevo product, it is whether ISTNC has a direct relationship with Clevo wherein they make their purchases and import directly from Clevo. My original statement about this was: "ISTNC actually buys their Clevo units from Eurocom, not Clevo. The only issue to consider is that warranty issues that ISTNC cannot fix themselves will have to go back to Eurocom in Canada for repair. This could add considerable time to the repair process." This statement is simple, pure and true.

Now, about the statement that Sager makes nothing. Clevo only makes the barebones shell. It is but one component of a laptop computer. The other components are the processor, memory, hard drive, optical drive and if you order it, the OS. All of these components have to be put together, properly, and then burned in and tested before you have an operational laptop. Before you do that you have a pile of components, with the Clevo shell being only one of those components. So Sager, and all of the other companies out there that brand the Clevo barebones shell do a lot more than just stick a label on what Clevo provides. See: http://www.powernotebooks.com/articles/index.php?action=fullnews&id=17

I believe ISTNC gets the Clevo shells from Eurocom and does the assembly, testing and burning in themselves. If I am wrong, it only means that Eurocom builds them for ISTNC. ISTNC does not buy from either Sager or ProStar. In either event, if ISTNC needs to accomplish warranty repair beyond what they can do, or acquire motherboard or other shell level parts for a repair, they have to go through Eurocom in Canada. This will indeed have an impact on the time required in the repair process, which is all that my original comment said. After all of the posting in this thread, that fact has not changed.

I hope this helps put this matter to rest.

 

istnc doesnt claim on their website they buy from clevo, in fact in their about us they claim to not buy any of their laptops from the manufacturers.

a forumer through third hand chat room to forum posting said that. it is somantics. The rep probably told them in so many words exactly what you just said, we get the barebones from clevo, the other sellers get the assembled product from sager. the consumer doesnt care about who buys it from who he wants to try and figure out the difference here.

really a consumer wants to know these two things, is a clevo any different than a sager ( no) and for this model at this moment, which is going to arrive first.

and what is the cost difference and why.


if you need sager to assemble yours from a barebones, and they get the barebones and assemble them themselves it stands to reason they might reach the market first. Im basing this on what you just told me, and thats what the consumer wants to know and you dont want to tell them.
What really turned me off about what you said in this thread was basically you contradicted what the poster said, and then you said I know how it works and Im not gonna tell you all.
Makes me wonder why, why do you want someone to know about istn but you dont want them to know about how it works

Im not sure if anything I said was really innacurate but what you just wrote is new to me, 4 resellers in north america.

Now I always thought prostar and sager were the same company so I will look into that.

Ok so you say aleinware buys them from clevo. i be interested in who falcon northwest buys them from, and voodoo. and etc.

Id be interested in knowing all about it actually what else can you tell me?

 

Hi paladin44

I find this really interesting.

So all Clevos are not created equal? Is there much performance difference or is the support different?

So if i order a Clevo say from a resaler in Australia (looking at getting the M570u) could I buy parts or addons from Sager or your company and they would work?

Is the bios all the same? So if one company offers a upgrade to next Core 2 Duo it should work on all M570u derived laptops?

 

stamar, I think you need to take some time and carefully read all of the posts in this thread. Most of what you just said does not make sense in light of the other posts here.

For example, Vlad said

In addition, most consumers want to know who is standing behind the warranty, and what the warranty process is. That is what this discussion has been about.

Sager started shipping the NP5760 on Tuesday the 30th... They always get them first.

Pricing is what any seller decides it is, the why is not really relevant.

Sager and ProStar are different corporations, but there are some shareholders that own shares in both companies.

I don't know what you are referencing when you say "...you said in this thread was basically you contradicted what the poster said, and then you said I know how it works and Im not gonna tell you all." but I am not sure it is relevant to this discussion. However if you want to quote what you are referring to I could address it.

As for the rest of it...I am finished. I am not really interested in any more unfounded attacks. I come here to provide solid information and frankly, I don't need to prove anything. You can either accept the information in the spirit it has been given or continue with the perspective you have...it is up to the reader.

 

This is my speculation on this so take it with a grain of salt.

Like you all know already, ALL Sagers are just rebranded Clevo's.
Clevo supplies their laptops to various boutique shops.

The "shops" then customize it according to their needs and preference.
(ie: Alienware adds their Alieneyes, VodooPC has their custom paintjob, etc.)

Depending on where you buy your Clevo, there may or may not be an option to select the different parts you want installed in it.
(ie: Hitachi or Seagate HDD, Type of RAM, etc.)

Also each "shop" has their own warranty service and quality control.
Each Clevo will in the end have to go thru all this different processes.

Its as if you and a friend build 2 desktops that has everything the same.
You may know what you are doing while your friend is not as proficient.
Which may be a better built PC even though the basic parts are the same?

I hope this all makes sense.

 

There can be differences in performance based on how well your reseller or OEM builds it, but unless someone really makes a mistake the performance should be about the same.

Of course there will be a difference in support. Different companies tend to provide different levels of support. Some are better than others aren't they?

As for buying add on parts, we do not ship outside of the US so we would not be an option, nor should we be. You should look to your reseller for any help in this area.

The BIOS may or may not be the same depending on what version each is using.

Upgrading to MEROM should be easy on this model, with the only requirement being a possible BIOS upgrade.

 

Oooh, I think my analogy hit the mark or is at least close to it

I should forget Nursing school and just go to the laptop business:base:

 

Well, the part about it will make a difference based on the proficiency of the builder and what components they use is right on point.

However please go back and read my post where I laid out the 4 companies in North America that buy from Clevo...only those 4. All of the other "shops" then buy from either Sager, ProStar or Eurocom, not from Clevo.

 

Paladin-
Your post at the top of page 3 is exactly what I was hoping for.
That explains the situation in an easy to understand format, and backs up your original statements to a "T".
Thank you.

 

Whew...thanks Elmisnt...

 

Hi Paladin,

While I would perfer to buy parts locally, some parts aren't carried, an example is the Secondary Hard Drive Bracket.

Do you happen to know if any of the others send overseas?

So would the orginal Bios be from clevo?

I have notice some owners having problems with updating drivers who would be the best authority on getting the right ones?

 

I think I can hear the sarcasm...
You responded to my request for proof. My thanks are genuine.
It was never personal. I just don't like seeing a claim with no proof, no matter who/what the source.

Now back to your regularly scheduled 5760 drooling.

 

No sarcasm at all...

I was just relieved to see that someone actually took the time to read carefully, and I appreciate it.

 

Did I miss something? I hate to be a party pooper, but although Paladin's post was well-written and informational (if true), it does not include any proof.

I do not have anything personal in this either, but I suppose my requirements are one step farther -- I need to see things myself before I will accept them.

 

My posts include all the proof that is necessary.

If you need more, get it from ISTNC.

 

Sorry chooch, I missed your post earlier.

I don't know offhand who would ship small parts like the Secondary Hard Drive Bracket, but you might want to start by checking directly with Sager.

Yes, the original BIOS as well as most updates will come from Clevo. However not all OEMs or resellers distribute each version.

The best place for current drivers is the Sager website... www.sagernotebook.com

 

was browsing through ISTNC's site, and their image of a 12" clevo model has a clear Eurocom logo on the webcam



http://www.istnc.com/store/prodimages/m520g/M520G_open.jpg

 

This is what I would call proof. Thanks for sharing your find. I now have a solid basis to conclude that they indeed to buy from Eurocom, and I will have to speak with Rick about this.

I don't understand why he would lie to me about such a thing, I don't care where he gets them, ISTNC still has the lowest price and great status on resellerratings -- those being the two things that affect my buying decision.

 

That is indeed a nice proof that was posted.
ISTNC actually also stated to me in IM, Phone and E-mail that they get their Clevo's directly from Clevo in Taiwan themselves also.

Hope to hear what they have to say to you once you show them this.

 

Now, that is REALLY interesting since Clevo ships nothing from Taiwan. All of their shipments come from the Clevo factory in China.

 

I must have been mistaken then.
I just expected Clevo to b made in Taiwan because Clevo is in Taiwan
I even tried to contact Clevo myself but I did not speak Taiwanese? so that was a short conversation.

Other than that, everythign else that I said above should be right.

 

I didn't mean to critcize your comment Kilim...

Both you and Vlad posted that Rick told you that the shipments were coming from Taiwan...you would think that if he really was dealing direct he would know that they were coming from China, not Taiwan.

 

Didn't take it personal, just wanted to correct myself

 

Man, this thread brings back some not-so-pleasant memories of another thread comparing the various Asus resellers here on NBF. I'll just add this to the discussion...

I purchased 2 Asus notebooks from ISTNC, last year, and would gladly do so again. I was very pleased with their pricing and service. The only reason I went elsewhere for my V6Va was Buy.com offered a much better price. I also spoke with Rick several times and found him to be exremely professional, knowledgeable, courteous, funny. I give ISTNC my highest recommendation.

 

If I might throw in my two cents:

Here is the Better Business Bureau listing for Powernotebooks.

Here is the ISTNC Better Business Bureau listing.

Both are rated "satisfactory" by the BBB. Both are also members of the BBB. If I understand, that means the BBB will help you out if something goes awry and the company refuses to stand by their product. The only thing that might lean in Powernotebooks's favor is that they've been around longer, but being around longer doesn't necessarily mean anything, either.

I also want to say, that it's generally a bad idea to learn about Company A by talking to Company A's direct competitors. I'm not claiming that anyone is actually wrong, as I have no idea either way, but think of it like this: Would you walk into a Toyota dealership and ask for opinions about a car made by Ford? It's the same principle.

I myself, have been seriously considering the Sager 5760 (too lazy to look up the Clevo model number that it is ) but am leaning towards a Dell for one reason, despite knowing that their product isn't always rated as highly as the Sager stuff:

I've always been the type to go against the grain on technology. For instance, I had two Minidisc players, one regular and one NetMD, and only finally abandoned ship once HiMD rolled along--good thing, since you don't exactly hear much about HiMD nowadays. For once in my life, I just want to go the easy route, one of my considerations being that for all the research I've done, I don't know anyone who's actually bought a Sager, and don't know if the companies will be around when a problem strikes. Dell, on the other hand, probably isn't going anywhere.

 

Just a little piece of history.

Sager has been around since 1985 which is about the same time DELL started.

 

*sigh* the good 'ol days

^yeahthat^

 

Thats complete bs. If Rick told you this why dont you ask him where the warranty is. Ask him for their sales rep at clevo. Ask him for clevos contact number. The fact is he cant give you any of that. Clevo has only a service center in the states. If you want to contact them overseas you better speak more then Just english and i know Rick speaks English very fluently as for other languages i doubt it. I ll bet my bottom dollar that if he dont buy them from eurocom he buys them from mediawavepc.com
Donald is 100% correct. If you wont take my word just think about. Powernotebooks turns over easliy 10 times the ammount of latops istnc does. Dont you think they would have gone direct by now.?? We dealt with clevo notebooks many years ago. Clevo will not touch you unless you are dealing with multi million dollar purchases. I dont know if rick is getting them from eurocom but i do know where they are buying them in the states. He done it with the z70va, he did it with inflaming orders. Claimed they had 300 some pre-orders for the z70va when in reality they had a few dozen. Sorry llama i know you going to hate me but rick is a liar. I spoke to him many times via chat windows. Never said who i was. Just random questions about stuff and quality. What he told you is a lie. If you want to call donald a lier go ahead. He dont have to defend him self. He has more integrity then you can imagine and they have been in this business years before rick decided to join ebay and kick his foot in the door by being the first to offer a pre-order 3 months before release. Even went so far as to write "cancellation of pre-orders will invoke a penalty". He was there during the z70va fiasco. Every other word that came out of ricks mouth was a lie. I have no respect for him. The warranty for clevo goes to their disti. Istnc does not do any repairs other then ram and harddrive on these units. All clevo untis go for rma in cali if purchased in the states. Call Rick and tell him i said he is a liar. If he is not then ask him for clevos sales rep that does not work in eurocom or in mediawavepc. If you can get this info i ll kick my self in the head.

 

That he may be but that dont make him an honest person. He does infact like to lie! And he makes a habit of it. Everything from pre orders to eta to the numbers they deal with to quality. Once i asked him. How many m5ns do you have in stock. He replied 20. I asked him how they deal with the loud fan problem. He replied there is no problem its not loud. He didnt even touch an m5n. if he did it was numbered to a few. If he touched an m5n even turned it on he would have known what to say. Aside from that i asked him about it exactly when there was not a single m5n in the channel. He is telling me he has 20? What do you do with 20 m5n's when nobody buying becuase of the horrible reputation they got for the lousy fan. Lies and more lies thats all i heard from him and alot of his potential customers. Funny part is they eat every word that comes out of his mouth. i am not his competitor. The guy dont even sell asus notebooks anymore. All the notebooks he sells is old crap from last year that he has to pawn on ebay becuase anyone who knows wont buy last years product. Hasnt even updated the asus section in months. Clevo is his game now but i see the same practice he had with asus.