In the market for a new lappy...

Last lappy was a Dell Studio XPS 16 with a core2duo processor and ATi 512mb board. I don't remember the model off the top of my head, and it's not important. What is important is that it did everything I needed it to until SWTOR and BF3.

I'm looking for something that will run SWTOR and BF3 well, as well as remain portable for web browsing around the house as well as on travel. Battery life is not a major factor for me. That throws anything larger than 16" out for me. Dell has a 20% off coupon on any Alienware outlet laptops which is a decent deal. Tried ordering a 14x three times now, and all 3 orders have failed because I am military stationed in Guam. Thy don't ship to military and they don't ship to Guam, but that doesn't stop the sales reps from trying to push the order through anyway. These are recent changes as my last two laptops I have ordered from them while here on island. I can have it shipped to family in the states, but the. I'll have to pay taxes... MEh. Anyhow, it has gotten me thinking of other options. I don't have a specific budget, but I am about bang for the buck. The best 14x (outlet) I found was a q2670 CPU, 6GB 1600 DDR 3, 256GB sata ii, 1400x900 hd screen, and 1.5GB 555M for $1239 before coupon. If I could get that system for about a grand, I would Beverly happy. Unfortunately that order got cancelled and the stock rotates nearly daily. At the time of this post, there are no 14xs in the market and have not been for a few days.

So looking for other options, I started looking at Sager. I've had 15" lappys in the past and 15 is a good size. So I believe that limits me to the 8130 and 8150. Trying to find out what the differences are. They seem almost identical, but using the newest chipsets... And reviews of the 8130 seem to go back to January 2011... Which kind of indicates it may not be updated, but again if it's using the Huron River stuff, how can that be true?

So I'm looking for advice on these two models, what features I should be sure to include or skip, and opinions on performance a the Alienware 14x or comparable systems, ignoring price differences.

I also read that the Sagers may have started rolling out new/better keyboards recently. Any truth to that rumor?


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http://forum.notebookreview.com/sager-clevo/553765-np8130-vs-np8150.html

 

Thanks for the reply, but that thread is a year old... I think there have been chipset upgrades as well as chassis (keyboard, trackpad, ...?) upgrades to both systems as well.


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You should have come to the Clevo/Sager crew sooner!

Yes! In April, when mobile Ivy Bridge launches, there will be the 15" Clevo P150EM with a backlit keyboard. See here: Clevo P150EM | Channel Authorized Manufacturer Showcase

If you can wait until April, you should. Why? Because Sandy Bridge (mobile) does not use the same socket as Ivy Bridge (mobile), so that means you wouldn't be able to just plop in an IB CPU. You'd be buying old tech if you got the P150HM right now. The performance gain between SB and IB will be there, but the biggest boost will be in battery life.

The whole Dell pricing scheme has been thoroughly discussed and beaten to death, but in my opinion, they just rack on the 'coupons' so it makes it seem like a better deal, when in reality it is not. It's just very clever marketing and client retention.

Anyway back on topic: Wait if you can. If not, get the P150HM because of its better cooling capability and its ability to handle higher-end GPUs (580m comes to mind).

 

ettornio, good info! Not too worried about ivy vs sandy bridge. Won't make a large difference and I'm not concerned with power consumption or battery life. What would be interesting is if that keyboard could be retrofitted. Don't think I want to wait until April. Feb 1st is pushing it for me.


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No. Sager resellers already chimed on this issue and confirmed that it is not possible.

http://forum.notebookreview.com/sager-clevo/640182-p150em-illuminated-keyboard.html

 

I feel like no one has just given you strait up info yet. I'm going to start with the fact that I don't know if you can get a Clevo/Sager/Malibal shipped to Guam, but I wouldn't be surprised if you could.

Also, I would like to tell you I own a np8130, and that all my statements about the np8150 are projections and educated guesses.

I can play BF3 on all high settings with smooth frame rates ( would guess they're in the 30-40 fps range), it's enjoyable to play, though I'm sure I could get the fps up to 60 (the refresh rate of the screen) if I dropped a few settings (like shadows). AFAIK SWTOR isn't as graphically intensive as BF3. Every other game I've played I've been able to easily put on high or highest settings. The only catch is that all of this performance goes out the window as soon as one unplugs the laptop from it's PSU. When unplugged the gpu automatically underclocks its self because the internal battery can't supply the wattage needed to supply full power to the gpu and cpu. Imo the gtx 560m is a very powerful card that won't disappoint.

But, if you're looking to spend more for a ultra-powerful machine, then by no means should you let me stop you. Also, remember that you can upgrade the GPU down the line. Bottom line, The gtx560m maybe close to the least powerful "gaming card" but that doesn't mean it can't play games the way they're meant to be played (thus "gaming card").

P.S. because of the time of year right now it might be worth it to get the less powerful card and use it until the next line of mobile gpu's come out, then upgrade to the most powerful model (Clevo has said that the socket isn't changing and that the option to upgrade will be available).

Good Luck!

 

Thanks for the link. So the current revision isn't backlit, but are there concerns with it? The lighting isn't a huge issue but I read a thread from about a year that the keyboard wasn't as good as it could be and was pending an upgrade. So has it been upgraded in the last year or is this April 2012 update the "big one"?

Also based on the link it sounds like "less room underneath" may also translate to "less room for goodies".

. Yes, I also wonder this myself. I have a military FPO/APO address which gets delivered to San Francisco where the
military takes custody and ships it to where ever the ship, battle group, or overseas location is on military or USPS transports. Also, Guam is a part of the USA and we have UPS FedEx, DHL, and of course USPS.

Worst case scenario I'll have whatever system shipped to my BFF in Seattle or my parents in Los Angeles and have them forward it to me.

Is this true with the 8150? I can't really say I'll never game unplugged, but the idea that I would sacrifice performance over battery time without a choice is kind of poo. But the 8150 has a higher power supply, so might that also translate to a beefier battery?

Roger. 560M seemed adequate until I saw the current special which upgrades the 8150 to the 6990 for $145.

As long as I can play what's out now pretty well, i will feel confident in my purchase. The industry kind of moves in waves and SWTOR and BF3 were enough to revitalize PC gaming. And of course D3 and SC2... But I don't foresee anything that wouldnt run on a 560 or 6990 coming out this year.

So I'm leaning towards the 8150 now... But also took a good look at some asus g-series machines today too. Not too impressed... But still keeping options open until I pull the trigger.



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Just about any reseller offers shipping to Guam via USPS Express.
(Powernotebooks, Xoticpc, Malibal, etc.)

The 560m will comfortably run those games on high settings. (maybe a mix of medium and ultra thrown in as well)
But if you can afford the 6990m its definitely worth the upgrade for gaming.

 

560M is not worth your gaming rig, atleast a 6990m or 6970 (its $75) with malibal.

 

At this point, it's best to pretend the GTX 560M has been retired.

The one who leans strongly toward Nvidia can buy an MSI w/ GTX 570M for just over $1k, and he who seeks pure performance has the Clevo w/ 6990M.

 

Indeed, from my mobile platform I prefer performance. I want it to game on the go (plugged in, but elsewhere) and work like a champ except for when it comes to storage capacity. I have a desktop for that, and I have a TV for movies.

My lappy is for gaming and travel and it needs to do both well.

So on to performance, how advantageous is SATA III SSDs over SATA II? I'm a bit scared to go with a stock 'spinny' drive as my desktop and last two lappys have been SSD and I've gotten used to the performance. This would be my first SATA III capable rig though and I'm curious if the price is worth the performance?

And yes, I'm pretty set on the 6990 now, which means an 8150 over the 8130.

 

SATA III drives are about twice as fast as SATA II. If you're going to get an SSD for sure, you should get a III so it takes full advantage of the computers capabilities. Since you already have SSD drives you'll see the difference in speed drop by going back down to HDD.

 

Well, to me the SATA III is still all hype..

With the SATA II drives hitting less than $1/GB (Intel, Samsung - high 4k)

I would take a cheaper SATA II with higher 4K and 34nm NAND than a bluffed poor quality SATA III drive with 25nm NAND..

The transition from HDD to SSD is drastic, but I hardly noticed a difference going from SATA II to SATA III. Heck, I didn't even notice too much of a difference from SATA III to RAID0.

 

I'd stick with a cheaper SATA II drive. Having used both, I agree with Ryan that the bump from HDD to SSD (any model) is incredible, while the upgrade from SATA II SSD's to SATA III is marginal at best. All SSD's have fantastic random read time, which is what makes them feel so snappy. Prices are at times less than $1 per GB if you catch a drive on sale and don't mind a SATA II model.

 

I think I may bite on the Sata II biz... Looks like a SATA III upgrade runs about $260 over stock, and the same drive can be had at Newegg for $270.

Was bored, so I made a comparison table of the systems I've been looking at:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AuA_klOyLcpJdHRTUHM0TXUxdWhSTmxHQ2JjcmVrbHc

Just about ready to pull the trigger... Finger itching... Wallet burning... Developing twitch-like twitches...

 

You mentioned gaming on battery being better with the np8150, and AFAIK it uses the same battery as the np8130 ( almost 100% sure on this), so when on battery you're going to see a huge decrease in graphical power. I'm pretty sure there isn't a way to get around this besides using an external battery brick which could supply the wattage and voltage necessary to run the computer at full burn (which you would need to home make).

Also, I'll mention this again, think about upgrading the GPU later and going with the the lesser GPU now. Use the $145 dollars to get you started towards something like a GTX 680m or 7990m. Despite what others are saying the GTX 560m can play BF3 on high with good frame rates.


Good luck!

 

You are correct on the battery- it just cannot output the voltage needed for full power. The machine has to run at lower speeds by necessity.

For the GPU though, upgrading on your own will be significantly more money than doing so from the get-go. For example, the 6990m is a $150 upgrade, but costs $500 if you just buy the card and heatsink separately. The 580m is several hundred more than that. The next gen cards will almost definitely be quite expensive purchased standalone.

 

MALIBAL#2, thanks for the clarification on the battery and graphics card upgrade cost. I also doubt that after the 7xxx series comes out, that the upgrade price on the 6990 will change, with the exception of no longer being available and having to pay full upgrade price for the 7xxx.

While the full retail price of the 6990 may come down, again I'm in the market now and the $145 upgrade price for the 6990 can't really be beat.

 

If you're looking to get a 6990m, then I completely agree, get it now, $145 is a great price. I was talking about upgrading to a 7990m or a 680m.

Thanks Malibal #2, I'm thinking about doing this my self in about a year and knowing the price-range I'll be looking at is really helpful.

 

I run SW: TOR on my personal PC at home with 2x 6870s in X-Fire, and I still can't max out the settings. (This is mostly because of my Phenom II X6)

Get the 6990m

 

Updated the spreadsheet with GPU comparisions. My current Lappy, the 14X gpu, and the two primary sager gpus.

So my current dilemma lies in... Two 14x's have popped on the outlet, with a 20% coupon available. Cheapest is 969, minus coupon plus tax is $837 before shipping for an Alienware with a 1 year warranty. IF I don't like it, I can always sell it on Guam for what I paid (especially since Dell doesn't ship here).

The sager system I prefer is priced lcoser to 1600, which is nearly double.

I think it would be prudent to get the 14x and at least try it to see if it suits my needs before going all out on a Sager. My gaming at home is usually on my desktop or consoles anyway...

Still waffling...

 

If this isn't your primary gaming device, then I think it would definitely be wise to get something more economical. You'd much rather take that chunk of savings and use it toward upgrading your desktop. That'll likely yield much more dividends.

Hopefully those Alienwares have 900p screens though.

 

Well, economy only goes so far with enthusiasts... But it is a rather significant price difference... I think the money savings probably overcomes the gap in performance. And if me and the 14x doesn't work out, hopefully the new Clevos with the backlit keyboards will be available.

Oh, and the 14x has two screens, the better of which is 900p.

 

Yes, the new Sager's that will be introduces in the next couple of months will have backlit keyboards

 

Just pulled the trigger on a 14x from the outlet with the 20% coupon. I've been camping on the outlet for days now, hitting F5 every 5-15 mins and a decent barebones system just so happened to finally pop. $751 before tax, free shipping to my BFF (since Dell won't ship to Guam or military anymore), and then he will forward to my military address. All stock as well except I got the upgraded 900p screen. The sager was twice that... So economy trumps performance this time.

I would like to give a warm and very grateful thanks to all the Sager fans and retailers in on this forum. Your opinions have been honest, insightful, and very helpful! In the event that this rig does not satisfy, you can be sure I'll return for the 8150, with cash from the sale of the 14x fresh in hand. A very special thanks to Justin@Xotic, Hutsday@Xotic, Malibal, and Paladin44.

Cheers all!

 

I'm glad we could help

 

You're welcome as well. While you didnt go with a Sager this time, at least you got some info that helped you get a computer that fits your needs.