Is it safe yet to buy the NP8660?

I was considering buying a new laptop and really was excited about the NP8660. I almost ordered one last week but then I started reading about all the hard drive heat issues. It sounds like some of these may have been resolved, but have they? Is it safe to buy one now, or should I wait another few months until Sager has it all sorted out.

What do you think?

 

There never was a issue to start with, the system works just fine....

 

The laptop runs cool and it`s powerful, it`s already proven its reliability.

 

I decided to order mine today. I hope the 5400 runs cool, if it doesn't I'll see what I can do about modding the case or covering up the main vent and tweaking the system.

 

Running cooler also means getting xp instead of vista, which I would advise to do anyways, if your a gamer.

 

Totally support Bwhxeon`s idea.

 

Yes it's safe. Sager is doing the foil-wrapped cardboard thing under the harddrive which helps temps a bit.

 

O_O' haven't heard about that, sounds like the poor mans heat spreader.

 

More or less.

 

It's always been safe. If you want it and can afford it, buy it.

If you can't afford but want it, buy it when you can afford it. Simple as that.

 

I guess safe is a bad term then. What I mean is, should I wait to buy until they (Sager) has all the heating issues worked out, or is it going to work just fine as is.

 

Well, I'm using it right now and I love it. Honestly, the palm rest gets warm, not hot. I think that should be guaranteed now with most of the recent orders reporting decent temperatures overall.

 

I've been waiting on the NP8660 for a while now, and I must respectfully disagree with some opinions expressed in this thread.

No matter how you slice it, a HDD should not be working outside of its normal operating temperature, and for most HDDs this means up to 55c (60c for a few). A lot of NP8660/M860TU show close to this temperature even on idle, and above it under load. Since HDDs do not produce a lot of heat (I'm writing this from an XPS M1530 with a 320GB 7200 RPM drive, and it's showing 35c, even though the CPU is showing 50c+ and the GPU is at 62c) there is clearly something wrong with the design of that part of the NP8660.

I will not buy the NP8660 until I know this issue is fixed, and I'd advise others to consider well before doing the same. Yes, you can always replace the HDD - but constantly backing up your data, or the chance of having it fail while you're away and have no access to a repair service, is just too much of a risk.

I don't even want to know what will happen to the HDD in the NP8660 when taken to warmer climates, where 35c ambient is quite common.

 

Well, I'll let you know how that goes. How about that? Highest temperature its hit for me has been 57 C. On average its 33-35 C here.

 

Thanks.

Quite a few owners seem to be experiencing higher temperatures even with a lower ambient temperature (I believe most of them have another brand of HDD, though). Incidentally, I might add that 57c is still outside the operating temperature of your model of HDD - and probably a lot higher than that HDD would run in most laptops.

As I often stay in 35c+ climate, this is a big concern to me (can't stand having the AC on all the time).

 

lets not forget that he has an Edge and not an np8660...I think the heating issue is mainly with Sagers

 

I tend to agree with Kosem. I've seen quite a few (about 50% of all owners on here) report temperatures that exceed healthy temperatures: above 55°-60° and with peak temperatures close to or above 65°!! This cannot be healthy. Especially since we're talking about brand-new computers. After a couple of months, the overheating can only amplify (due to wear, some dust, etc...).

Remember the m15x... Overheating doesn't earn you points.

They are both Clevo M860TU. So any difference between the NP and the Edge is a coincidence; they are the same laptop, and both companies don't change the chassis.
Unless I'm missing something here.

 

oh I though they used different hard drives or something, but you're probably right...I just figured there must be some difference since there's a massive price difference between the edge and the 8660

 

solution: get a cooler

 

That will only help if the vents are aligned correctly with the cooler, and unless I'm mistaken, there is no standard vent hole in the NP8660, which means that the air will barely reach the HDD, resulting in practically no temperature decrease (compare to the M570TU and the Zalman NC2000: the M570TU GPU fan is not aligned well enough, and so the NC2000 barely lowers the temperatures of the GPU). I highly doubt the effectiveness.

And on top of that, you can't always have your cooler with you. It's no solution.

 

Of course, you haven't followed this story nor read Chaz's post about temperature.

 

Where did you hear this from? What about those of us that already have the notebook?

 

Speaking of this, I haven't heard 32-bit vs 64-bit being mentioned. I was planning on installing XP Pro 32-bit; is there any reason to go 64-bit? Are drivers fine for 64-bit (yet)? Any significant performance increases? Or is that all application (most of which are 32-bit) dependent?

Also, I only saw the foil thing being done on Eurocom shipped M860TUs, not Sagers... was that a mistype?

 

To the best of my knowledge Chaz is not the foremost authority on HDD temperature; I personally tend to look at the manufacturer datasheet for a HDD when attempting to figure out if a certain temperature is acceptable or not.

I could be wrong, though.

 

dont go 64bit xp, manufacturers are really only making 64bit drivers for vista. if you have/need 4gigs ram i would say go 64bit vista, or just take my route with 3gigs and 32bit xp pro i doubt youd be using more than 2gigs of ram anyways.

 

Yeah, that's what I figured, but any info I found was from ~2006.

 

http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=286151&page=72

Posts #716 and #719 give a possible solution to all the heating problems...it just needs to be tested by someone else to verify it works.

 

My NP8660 from Xotic has it. I don't know about the rest of you... I guess you could try and fashion one yourself.

 

There is a foil sheet between the HDD and motherboard. It has been there with every unit since the first NP8660 was shipped.

 

maybe im just more paranoid than u guys, but my hdd as well as many others getting close and sometimes over the hdd manufacturer's rated temperatures is just an uneasy feeling.

 

there is absolutely no way a harddrive should be anywhere near 50+c, anyone suggesting otherwise is just being silly

 

Care to share your source of information with us? Everyone would like to know why is it "silly".

 

It is outside of operating specs for any drive, really. Drives were not designed to work reliably at those sorts of temperatures. Drives in 95% of computers do not reach those temperatures. There is a reason for this.

I don't understand how anyone could suggest that running drives at that temperature is just an inconvience. It's not like a graphics card or a processor that will just BSOD on you until it cools off. At best, you will see a 30-60% decline in drive life, and at worst, you will lose all your data when your drive finally does give out, and with little to no warning.

 

Drives in 95% of desktops do not get that hot, my 4 year old dell has hdd temps in the 50c range. I do agree they seem a little warm,but they are not out of spec. You need to remember that these HDD are built for laptops not desktops and its well known that laptops get warmer than a desktop.

Edit: and just so you don't think I'm full of it here is a link directly to a 320gb western digital 2.5"
Temperature (Metric)
Operating -0° C to 60° C
Non-operating -40° C to 70° C

http://www.wdc.com/en/products/products.asp?driveid=477&language=en#jump11

Here is one for Hitachi, these are rated up to 55c
http://www.hitachigst.com/tech/techlib.nsf/techdocs/50C8DBC2A315A4C786256F400065B756/$file/7K100_SATA_FINAL_DS.pdf

 

Just get the laptop! If it's not what you wanted, send it back.

 

I totally agree with that. Only problem is that, for us poor Canadians, it would be a total pain to do this: shipping across border = $$$ + getting the taxes back from the government and all. Also they don't refund the shipping so that would come up to around $200 and $500 if I don't get my taxes back. But for anyone else, that would be OK

 

The temperature "issue" is solved by the 8.5 sata driver update. My temp range went from 57°-62°, down to 48°-57°.

That is all.

 

It doesn't solve it for XP... those driver are only for Vista.

 

for XP, the HDD runs cooler anyways, just turn off the background services/utilities that are not needed:
- Drive Indexing service
- System Restore

 

I find it sad that things have to be disabled in such a powerful laptop. I think the hardware change (small holes in the undercovering underneath the hard drive) is the best thing. Myself, aluminum foil slightly raised for air flow and stuck down at two sides by electrical tape seems to be keeping the drive at 47-49 and no heat at all on the palm rest. I'll take a picture of it later today.

 

These are optimizations... regardless of which system you have.

Drive Indexing - useless service that is only useful when you do a Find files search... which most people do not use at all.

System Restore - a big waste of resources that is hit or miss to work when your system crashes or has issues (its easier to just backup your data with a USB drive or external HDD)

 

Whoever uses Drive Indexing and System restore is not good from their heads... Its a waste of resources, to be honest.
But, in fact, you shouldn't have to disable them to have a working laptop, of course...

 

Those are the first things I disable for every system I work with.

 

Me too... I disable pretty much everything I can. I followed the Vista tips guide and it does increase performance a lot.
But truth be said, even if you don't need these "clutter", you should not have to disable it to lower your HDD temperatures.

 

I wouldn't call 65C cooler

Would love to see a picture... thx.

 

IMO, The fact that they managed to put such a powerful machine in a 15.4'' frame without it exploding is a triumph. If I want graphics cards and processors that push the limit of the laptop's ability to cool, I am ready to sacrifice those worthless services and find bios/driver updates, modify the case, or other solutions to an overheating hard drive myself. If I want a cute, cool-running laptop that works like a charm, I won't buy just-released high-end technology. I'll buy an apple or a dell. So, it depends on what you mean by safe to buy. I wouldn't get it for my grandmother, but if you are computer-savvy and willing to spend some time optimizing your system, there's nothing that can compare for the performance.

 

From some tests that I asks some unnamed M860TU owners, it turns out that you can also lower HDDtemps by elevating the front of the notebook, rather than the back.

You can try that by using Post-Its or erasers to raise the front to see if it helps... it might.

I am still waiting to get my hands on one to test with.

 

It places directly under the hard drive. Made a little 'hump' for air flow to keep the aluminium cool. Just tried it to see what would happen and my temps are between 45-49 C, rises to 52 C on stress.

 

pretty simple curious how similar results could be had. Mine ran about 60 idle, however my fan on the power supply died so I'm returning it for now till I can save up and maybe upgrade it a bit more and hopefully have better build quality luck. You should post up a new thread so people can give it a go.