Just purchased my first Sager/Clevo build (GentechPC)

First time customizing a laptop, I usually do a different (Potentially bad) thing and buy pre-built laptops and then modify them. This time I decided to be a little more patient and purchase a customized one from Gentech. I shopped around Xotic, HID, AVADirect, Alienware (Pricey AF), and finally stuck with Gentech because of their customer service (And military discount).

NP8152-S. Before anyone asks.

Anyone here know anything about Perma bios? How does one switch from the standard limited Sager bios to Perma?

UPDATE:
20SEP2016, ordered and paid for the laptop today. As of 1300 already received word that they are starting the build... Same day. Nice.

 

Congrats on your new Clevo!

Do you know if Gentech is a Prema Partner ( https://biosmods.wordpress.com/partner/ ). I don't see them on the list. If you really want a Prema system BIOS for this model (assuming one exists as I didn't see your model either), you may want to consider cancelling the order and re-ordering from a Prema Partner. It's the only way I know of at this time to ensure you can get the Prema BIOS for your system.

Regardless, if you cannot go the Prema BIOS for your model, all is not lost as you can look at something like @unclewebb's ThrottleStop which should help.

Now for Prema's video BIOS (vBIOS) for your GPU, I think things might be a little more open, but it will depend on what GPU you went with. Perhaps others can chime in regarding a vBIOS.

 

Fortunately the bios isn't a huge deal for me. If it was something something I could flash on my own, I would consider it.

Also, thanks for the help. I will definitely look into throttlestop

 

Wow already building? I had to wait til they get more shipment of the np8152! I ordered mine from HIDEvolution last week and it is now in pre-production! I am glad they speed up the production!

Wow already building? I had to wait til they get more shipment of the np8153! I ordered mine from HIDEvolution last week and it is now in pre-production! I am glad they speed up the production!

I think you can donate to Prema and get one too unless they are just offering that to their partners?

 

I was recently informed you can possibly donate and get the Bios that way.

I guess they had one of my model choice in stock?

 

Premamod usually releases it to the general public some time after the exclusive vendors, but it doesnt seem necessary at this time as many people are using the XMG EC to fix fan profile issues and are really helping with temps/throttling. The NP8152-S is pretty popular too, so it's a good bet that they'll make one. If you don't mind me asking, what kind of a military discount do they give? All the other stores are like $20 - $35, just curious.

 

2-3% off total price.

 

Sorry, but as of June that is no longer the case for Skylake based Clevos. See http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/clevo-overclockers-lounge.788975/page-257#post-10263050 for addt'l details.

You'll have to go thru a Prema Partner. I don't know about donations to the Prema Mod. If that helps one's case, then that is good to know.

 

For a 3% discount you chose not to go for a Prema partner and get the Prema BIOS? Not very smart (no offense)

Benefits of Prema BIOS:

• The ability to disable other drives connected to your system without physically removing them from your laptop, this comes in handy when installing Windows as you never want to have more than one drive connected at the time you are installing Windows otherwise the Windows setup will place the boot files on the 2nd drive it sees which hurts performance and makes it a headache when creating system images or restoring since the boot files are not on the main drive.
• The ability to overclock, increase Turbo Power Limits and System IA/Core Current Limits
• The ability to enable Intel Speed Shift Technology (it is disabled in the stock BIOS)
• The ability to run RAM with speeds higher than the standard 2133 MHz. I am not talking about overclocking here, I am talking about actual RAM sticks that are rated to run at 2800 MHz for example like the G.Skill 64GB 2800 MHz kit I have. With the stock BIOS, they will not run above 2400 MHz. In the case of the P870DM3, the stock BIOS now supports up to 2666 MHz. I believe but not more, so the Prema BIOS is a must again
• The ability to enable CSM for those who want to install other OSes like Windows 7
• The ability to undervolt the CPU as the stock voltage is way too high which causes the CPU to overheat much quicker and thus throttle under load.
• The ability to enable or disable CPU AES instructions or Virtualization
• The ability to disable hibernation from the BIOS

Benefits of Prema VBIOS:

• Power throttle disabled
• Over-voltage slider enabled and adjusted (up to a maximum of 1.2v)
• Activated and adjusted thermal slider (to keep it cooler if desired)
• Core overclock slider limit raised
• Power consumption meter activated
• Fixed 3D voltage base-line in order to stabilize OCs and voltage-match both cards in SLI systems (based on average ASIC)
• Thermal protection @ 92c (once*91c are breached the system throttles volts and clocks in order to protect it)
• Protection against Furmark and Kombustor GPU burnout (AVOID those software even with stock vBIOS)!

 

It will still come out eventually, unless prema changed it this time

Edit: just read the post above. Yea its a good addition, but for the 10 series and the temps, not really much to overclock

 

Yes. Things have definitely changed, and there will not be a public release. A lot of ppl do not understand that unless policy changes, it will not be a free-for all. The new Prema based BIOSs will *only* be available through proper channels, like the Prema Partners Program.

 

Prema mod is worth $50 more at most however most people just don't need it..

The main thing about it that it stops throttling etc.. This isn't an issue with the P650 series as long as you have good thermal paste...

If you are getting P870DM or something, yes it will help due to the power limit throttling..

Whichever way, if its not as readily available as it used to be and I cannot get it without a small donation, I am not going to pay arm and leg just to get it.. I can live without it and have a desktop if needed..

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I think @Badhand386 was asking a general question about the Prema BIOS in the original post.

In regards to availability, if they need it or not, there are other options ->

 

Yes jclausius, it was more of a general question and not a deciding factor in my purchase. The biggest deciding factors were pricing, military discount (feels like a form of appreciation and alienware offers 10%), customer service and their willingness to help and company reviews.

Gentech ticked all those boxes. (Not as high of a Military discount as alienware, 2-3%, but prices aren't as inflated either).

Xotic was very machine like in their responses to any of my questions and it felt more of an annoyance than inquiry. If you dont have the time to assist a future customer, than you don't have the space in your wallet for my money.

HID never responded.

Alienware service was awesome, but their price for what they are offering is way higher than a clevo build.


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It costs $200 USD from Eurocom just an example and it comes free from HIDevolution and covered under warranty.

Stop spreading FUD. The Prema BIOS not only stops throttling for both the CPU / GPU OR allows overclocking...

let me repost the benefits in normal English maybe you'll understand:

- Allows the adjustments of overclocking parameters such as Voltage, Turbo Power Max, Power Limits. Even if one doesn't want to overclock, sometimes undervolting by a few mV will still keep the CPU stable but bring down temps dramatically.

- Allows the usage of faster RAM than those supported with the standard BIOS AND allows RAM Parameters adjustments

- Allows you to enable Intel Speed Shift Technology which eliminates the lag from when a CPU goes to max turbo speed from the standard speed

- Allows you to disable a drive without physically removing it. why is that important? When installing Windows, if the setup detects a secondary drive that is active and has a partition, then it will place the boot files on that secondary drive and thus, making things more complicated when you want to take an image backup using a tool such as Macrium Reflect because now the boot files won't be included in the backup, and if that secondary drive was an HDD, then say goodbye to fast boot times as the boot files are on the slow HDD. So with the Prema BIOS, it's very easy, you disable the drive from the BIOS, install Windows on the main drive and baaam! you're done!

- Allows you to enable CSM if you want to install Windows 7 or older OSes that do not properly support full UEFI

- Allows you to disable Hibernation from the BIOS so you never even get it or see it in the OS as it's useless on an SSD which is already super fast thus negating the use of the hibernation feature and/or Fast Boot as it only creates extra wear on the SSD and takes a very long time to shutdown a system due to the system having to write certain parts of your current workflow to the hiberfil.sys (page file)

I hope this simpler English is easy for you to grasp now. You don't value the Prema BIOS because you've never used it.

A Clevo machine without the Prema BIOS is like selling you a Ferrari without the stick shift, you have no control, put it on auto-pilot and drive. LOL

 

I agree with all of the benefits of the @Prema BIOS that you have identified. In fact, Prema's BIOS mod is the ONLY reason I have not already totally abandoned notebooks. I would not buy anything except a cheap disposable $300 Wal-Mart turdbook and go back to desktops if I had to live with a crippled stock notebook BIOS. Without his firmware mods, nothing available for sale today in a notebook is something I consider a desirable product. It was the same way with the P870DM-G.

 

The stock sager BIOS supports a 15.5x multiplier in either 100mhz or 133mhz base clock options (15x 100 = 1500mhz x2 = 3000Mhz DDR). You can adjust current and power limits for the CPU and select to turn off UEFI booting (UEFI is not really a benefit in those older OS). CPU voltage selection is in there, VT-D selection is in there (that's starting to reach, having them enabled is a may as well choice). You can select your sleep/hibernation options in your OS.

Thermal protection is in the GPU as standard and those features are for achieving benchmark results.

You need to check the above before posting it

 

I don't know which stock BIOS you mean but with the stock BIOS on the P870DM that I have, there is nothing to change other than GPU Scaling, FlexiCharger, Date and Time, and boot mode to disable or enable UEFI.

Has the stock BIOS improved? Not doubting what you said but can you show me a picture of where those options to change the base clock speed and the CPU voltage / power limits / turbo power max in the stock BIOS?

Even at stock clocks, without upping the Turbo Power Max and Turbo Short Power Max + Increasing the power limits, once the CPU and GPU are under full load one of them or even both would throttle.

I remember how my CPU used to throttle from the base 4.2 GHz all the way down to 3.6 GHz when all cores were active when I had the stock BIOS and only the Prema BIOS and Prema EC firmware fixed that and again, the Turbo and Power Limits needed to be raised

 

As I have been saying the stock sager BIOS has been improved.

Read through our manual on our website to get all the options, everything exposed in XTU (and so the clevo control centre) is also exposed there for those that prefer the BIOS to XTU.

It's always good to check with the manual when a new product is released to get the low down.

 

@Johnksss@iBUYPOWER has also mentioned that it has improved. I can only imagine that the work of @Prema has created enough of a stir that loosening up the choke-hold on overclocking is simply a function of self-preservation.

Definitely reason to be happy and a really huge step in the right direction. Also a positive sign they are paying attention and willing to listen to what their customers want. There are still many options that are hidden, and only some of them are related to CPU and memory overclocking. Hopefully, some day Clevo will come to their senses and stop hiding everything. There is no legitimate excuse for any OEM to hide any BIOS settings.

 

It was being pushed in the background, Clevo got badly burned by users in the past going too far and then returning parts. Does not mean I am going to stop pushing though

 

ohh awesome, I never knew that or even expected it to be honest. I always think of my P870DM stock BIOS but recently someone told me that the stock BIOS now supports faster RAM and now you say this, I am glad then at least one without a Prema BIOS is not left with nothing, there is still room for some configuration.

Thanks for the info..

Regards,

Phoenix

 

Nice to know I should be well off regardless.


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I actually have it but never used any of the features in it.. I was perfectly able to change CPU settings in XTU, never needed to turn on speed shift don't have this lag you mentioned, already had the ability to turn on CSM in stock BIOS, and I can disable Hibernation in the OS.. Tbh, I have found no difference between having the stock BIOS and Prema BIOS as bluntly I didn't need the extra features from above in it... Now like I said, if you have a P870DM or something yes, it will literally fix it for you as it removes power limit throttling etc.... If you have something lower, I can see no reason for it unless you want control over different settings on the CPU etc.... This is my experience and I can only speak for myself.. Whichever way, everyone had different needs.. I still find is absolutely admirable the level of settings you can change in it, its literally absurd as there is as much as in my desktop's BIOS!! Prema deserves a massive round of applause for this!

If there is one thing I value above all from Prema, its the vBIOS he makes.. That actually makes a material impact for me as it allowed me to OC the GPU beyond its limits.. And yes like I said, I can't own a notebook without it..

You can claim that Eurocom charges $200 for the BIOS and Hide supposedly gives it free, but lets be honest here, Hide's base price includes the $200 extra for it.. Nothing is free in this world..

If I have a gripe and I'm going to be really blunt here, I don't like the way how its literally been commercialised nowadays to get it from only a reseller.. I understand there have been a few chumps who have stolen Prema's work however it doesn't mean that the rest of us should pay the price for it.. I liked , no loved the old system where you could grab it from a website and when you had some spare cash, send Prema a donation.. It wasn't the best system as many people just took it and didn't give Prema anything for his work however I'm sure people could purchase it of his website or something, which is a farier system..

I don't have a Prema reseller in the UK and I'm not paying $2500+ for a laptop to buy it from the states even with Hide's international warranty which costs arm over leg IMO so there is literally no way for me to get it now.. There are resellers in Europe again not practical for me to loose my laptops for weeks to get it fixed..

Something for you to think @Prema... I understand how bad it must feel for someone to steal your work but this situation isn't ideal for many of us at all.. Just throwing it out there.. I respect the right for you to make any decision regarding your work, after all it is you and not I who put all the effort in it..


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Fair enough, at least I understand your point of view for not buying from a US reseller as the cost does increase for you. I wish XMG becomes a Prema partner

 

I'll be getting mine without any international warranty... who I'm buying from idk yet but suffice to say it's going to be a bit of a wait. I could even wait for Kaby Lake really. I've got 2 sticks of RAM now, just waiting for 1 TB 960 Pro to appear.

Hadriel

 

That drive is almost half the cost of my laptop. More power to you for it, I'll be in my corner drooling.


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well said

the solution is not more partners, the solution is to enable everyone to personally obtain the prema bios (at a cost) and flash it at his/her own convenience

the only advantage partners should have is that they honor the machine's warranty since it comes with modded bios pre-flashed

 

Agreed, that would be my view exactly... Well it ups to @Prema, it's his work...

 

Well it sure wasn't from them unlocking any parts of a bios. That's for sure. . As much as I kept asking and the Official reply was. NO!

Oh yes there is. I have ran across a few as I know you have. And those are definitely settings that need to stay out of the hands of users because You can't do a bios reset to set them. The bios has to be physically removed and re-flashed.
So yes I totally agree with unlocking more of course!, but also there are quite a few that really do need to be hidden.

 

Exactly!

With the 'Prema Mods' we are doing extensive testing each year to make sure exposed options do their job and are as risk free and beneficial as possible. After all this is not just unlocking extra options and updating some modules. There is a lot of stuff done 'under the hood' in order to make the Clevo hardware perform the best it possible can. e.g for the original P870DM(-G) @Mr. Fox and I spent over a month with very little sleep to get it where it is today.
I also feel that going through Partner Shops and having a direct feed into hardware development has already benefited the brand as a whole...

It was neither advertised nor on a broad scale but we helped out a bunch of 'known' people behind the scenes, who where unable to purchase from a Partner Shop, and made sure that they weren't left out of the game. Even now everyone who has a Maxwell P-Series Clevo still has the chance to get a custom personal version:

http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/prema-gift-donations-thread.793580/page-21#post-10312512

When the time comes, I am sure we will also find a way to help the Pascal P-Series user base without access to Partner Shops...

Be happy everyone, good times are ahead! One step at a time...

 

You have earned my personal hero status.


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One of these days @Prema a model will come out and I will get it and then I will be able to help you with stuff. And then I will feel warm inside. Plus, I like to break everything do lots of testing. It'll be good =D