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    Looking to upgrade from a 650m, but cannot decide between 870m and 880m. Help?

    Discussion in 'Sager and Clevo' started by zenhic, Jun 2, 2014.

  1. zenhic

    zenhic Notebook Enthusiast

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    I've had an Asus n56vz, which features a 650m card, for almost two years now, and I am looking to upgrade. I've narrowed my choices down to between SAGER NP8268-S (870m) and SAGER NP8258-S (880m). I've been reading through a lot of threads on here and apparently the performance difference between the two isn't too great (an apparent 18-20% difference). Of course, the 880m model is almost $500 more than the 870m model, and I was wondering if you guys could help me decide if that card is worth the price. Would it be worth it to buy the 870m and then try to overclock it to 880m speeds? Could you suggest any alternatives? Should I wait a couple months longer to upgrade? I'm a college student, and I hardly ever have "spare money" saved up, so I would be incredibly appreciative if you could help me make an informed decision.
     
  2. smellon

    smellon Notebook Evangelist

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    I was in this same boat when deciding on my 150EM.

    Honestly, I was leaning toward the 675mx until my girlfriend just said, "Get the 680M because I don't want to hear you complain later that you should've gotten it instead."

    Looking back, in my opinion it's better to spend more now (it should only run you ~300$) and upgrade. I know that sounds like a lot now, but in my mind, because you're already spending ~1200 on a laptop, you might as well make sure you get what you want.

    TLDR: Unless you're sure you don't want or need it, I'd get the 880M. (or if you're getting a desktop or have a desktop dedicated to gaming).

    Edit: Where are you buying from that lists the 880M as a 500$ upgrade from the 870M?
     
  3. zenhic

    zenhic Notebook Enthusiast

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    Ha ha, I can understand that sentiment. That's pretty much how I felt months after buying my previous laptop. Which is why this time around I want to make an informed decision. I'm comfortable with OC'ing, and I read on another thread that it is possible to overclock the 870m to 880m speeds without raising the temperature too much. This is the main reason why I'm being fickle about buying the 880m.

    I found those prices on xoticpc: SAGER NP8258-S (Starting at $1842.03) and SAGER NP8268-S (Starting at $1279.43).

    Thank you so much for the prompt response.
     
  4. Ethrem

    Ethrem Notebook Prophet

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    The 870M won't perform the same as a GTX 880M at the same clock speed due to having one of the eight SMX units disabled and a 192-bit bus.

    With that said, I saw some results of overclocking the 870M and it appears to overclock like a champ while the 880M even with a modded vbios is pretty limited.

    It is really up to you which way you want to go. The difference between them is decent but if you get a good overclocker, that can be remedied. That's playing the silicon lottery though.

    My opinion is get the best now if you have the money. There really is no reason not to spend the money if you have it to spend. Overclocking can shorten the life span of a graphics card significantly and with how hot these boards run, it will be interesting to see how well they fare in the longterm as it is.
     
  5. b0b1man

    b0b1man Notebook Deity

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    Get the most powerful card, gtx880m, and forget about overclocking. No overclock is safe (and we are talking about mobile machines here). So that's that.
     
  6. Meaker@Sager

    Meaker@Sager Company Representative

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    How "safe" overclocking is boils down to user experience.
     
  7. Ethrem

    Ethrem Notebook Prophet

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    Even the most careful of overclockers have had hardware fail so this isn't true in all cases.
     
  8. Meaker@Sager

    Meaker@Sager Company Representative

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    I've only had a couple of failures directly due to me, one was a delicate engineering sample, one was a ride radeon 9800 pro which I was quite severely volt modding. Other than that I've been good with stable overclock. So yes the odds depend rather unsurprisingly on the type of overclocking and user experience.
     
  9. Ethrem

    Ethrem Notebook Prophet

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    I remember my 9800 XT... Good times.

    I had one of the 7900 GT cards and I found out the hard way that those cards had a high failure rate. Slight bump on the core and it went from a pretty decent card to an RMA within a week. That said, there is no way of knowing if it wouldn't have done the same thing without the OC because eVGA was having to replace those cards right and left.
     
  10. Meaker@Sager

    Meaker@Sager Company Representative

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    Yeah like the gtx 590 ultra realistic smoke effects edition. Those faults will kick in regardless usually. That's just poor engineering.
     
  11. zenhic

    zenhic Notebook Enthusiast

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    Meaker, you seem to be the only one so far that is ambivalent about me overclocking the 870m, rather than out-rightly advocating against it. Which would you think to be the better long term solution?
     
  12. zenhic

    zenhic Notebook Enthusiast

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    Thank you for your reply. What do you mean by "playing the silicon lottery"? Are all 870's not made the same?
     
  13. Ethrem

    Ethrem Notebook Prophet

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    They are made the same but that doesn't mean that they have the same headroom. This is why there is silicon binning. Honestly, 870m chips are probably 880m chips that didn't cut it with all 8 SMX units active so they disabled one, shrank the bus, and called it an 870 and saved their top-performing chips for the 880 cards. Its a pretty common practice actually.
     
  14. Meaker@Sager

    Meaker@Sager Company Representative

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    You don't hugely need to overclock the core, it's more about unlocking the power limits to prevent it from throttling.

    A good target would be 1006mhz on the core, then see how far the memory can go and still be stable to help feed the core.

    The 870M will likely have similar clocks to the 880M with a slight shift downwards for the bell curve as a whole, either they have disabled perfectly good cores or it had one defective unit as both ship at similar clocks and disabling units never saves much power.
     
  15. clevo-extreme

    clevo-extreme Company Representative

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    You can Upgrade to HD8970M 4gb your P150EM

    CEG - Clevo Extreme Gaming
     
  16. PuppetMaster2501

    PuppetMaster2501 Notebook Consultant

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    Personally, I would get the 870m. It's the best bang for your buck and it's only a few less frames than the 880m and you're saving at least $300. Besides, it'll run most games on High at 1080p just fine.
     
  17. madweazl

    madweazl Notebook Enthusiast

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    I ended up going with the 870 because most of the benchmark results I read showed the two within 3fps of one another and that just wasnt worth $300 for me. If I can eek out 1 or 2 more fps with an overclock than great! If not, I can live with the realistically pretty small performance difference.
     
  18. Support.3@XOTIC PC

    Support.3@XOTIC PC Company Representative

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    With the 880M you do pay a premium for having the top GPU which doesn't always translate to that much better performance for the price difference.

    The 870M you went with should still treat you very well.
     
    deadsmiley likes this.
  19. Djask

    Djask Notebook Consultant

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    880M overclocking hasn't been too much of a problem for me. I could reach near GTX 770/680 speeds with it, and without too much temperature rise at all. Albeit, I was pretty limited with my PSU :/
     
  20. D2 Ultima

    D2 Ultima Livestreaming Master

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    EDIT: I am stupid and did not notice he already went with the 870M. I'll just spoiler-wrap this post so he can read it and maybe change his mind if he wants.

    Honestly, the 870M will never surpass a 880M in terms of raw potential. The 880M is a better GPU in terms of strength (though nVidia apparently has a few issues they need to fix with it, but they're working on it right now as far as I know) and the 870M is basically a side-grade to the 680M. The 680M had very slow memory and core clocks. The core was able to go up pretty high, but the memory was not heavily overclockable due to a design limitation.

    The 870M is what happens when you take a 680M and bump the default clock speed from 720MHz to 941MHz and the memory from 3600MHz to 5000MHz. The downside is that the memory bus went from 256-bit to 192-bit. In effect, it's the same difference performance-wise; the 680M usually limited itself to 4400/4600 maximum memory clocks while the 870M will easily hit 6000 on the memory clocks. Now the 880M has 5000MHz on the memory and can hit 6000MHz on the memory easily too, but the memory bus is 256-bit there, so the memory will always be better. The core speed too, will likely be a lot better because even at the same core speed, the number of cores is less on both the 680M and 870M versus the 880M (1344 versus 1536).

    To summarize, more cores = more items to process graphics. So if you had 9 clones of a lumberjack building a house, 10 clones of the same lumberjack would build it a bit faster.

    As for memory, think of it like cars on a highway. If you have a wider highway, more cars can pass. 680M has a wide highway but each car is travelling slower than the 870M. The 880M both has the faster cars of the 870M but also has the wider highway of the 680M. I hope this lets you understand things a bit easier.

    As for performance... the 880M versus the 870M, both cards at stock and at stock vBIOSes will likely run similarly. When you get proper vBIOSes under control (which people are working on now) and the throttling on the 880M stops (throttling is slowing down of core speed to handle heat, something which does not work correctly right now on stock vBIOS) and the drivers etc work great, the 880M will be by and large the better card to have.

    If you want, the 870M with a 6000MHz memory clock (and maybe a slight OC on the core) will perform almost exactly like the GTX 660Ti desktop card. If you think the 660Ti's performance is good for you and won't leave you wanting, then go clear for the 870M and save yourself some money and we'll help you with OCing when you're ready.

    If you want the 880M's benchmarks; with 6000MHz on the core and stable clock speeds, it's pretty much 13MHz slower than a GTX 680. So you can use a 680's benchmarks to see how strong the 880M is. If the 680 benchmarks are something you're more interested in having, especially if you're willing to possibly do a couple repastes with really good thermal paste etc to make sure your temps are fine, you can even go beyond that and consider your card to be inbetween a 680 and a 770 in terms of raw power... but with 8GB vRAM.

    In the end, it's all on you to decide, but I hope that clarifies the power that each card is capable of bringing to you, and I hope you can use those cards' benchmarks to decide for yourself which you would want more, or if the 880M is justified as being that much more expensive than the 870M for you. Personally, I went with my two 780Ms because I wanted my laptop to last me a solid 4-5 years, and I'm dead certain I will still be playing games on "high" 3 years from now at 1080p. So also think about how long you want to keep this machine as your primary machine, and that may influence your decision a bit more =D.
     
  21. Meaker@Sager

    Meaker@Sager Company Representative

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    There will always be a gap yes but it comes down to price in the end.